6 months back i bought a 1.6d Qashqai, 2013 model. It's now got 80,000 on the clocks.
a week after buying it i got a P1485 message on the dash, well, the EML came on and the code reader gave me that. The car ended up at Nissan and got a new EGR valve and a exhaust actuator at £800 cost at the expense of the supplying dealer. All good.
Another minor episode on Friday with the light on the dash.
Knew where my code reader was this time and the error was i think a minor variation on the theme, but admittedly i forgot to note it and take a pic, but it was EGR/DPF related. Just to recap, i had a full EGR and Exhaust Actuator 5 months ago by Nissan. Although as far as i know they didn't do anything to DPF.
So i've got 3 current options.
1. Remove DFP/EGR (approx £350 but techincally illegal)
2. Clean DPF (£249 legal and should make it right)
3. Honda CR-V / Ford Kuga petrol, £11,000, that'll fix the issue
https://www.aldridgevehicleservices.co.uk/used-cars/14536850-ford-kuga-1.5-t-eco-boost-zetec-2-wd-s-s-5dr/
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202203183693622?advert-type=dealer-stock&advertising-location=at_cars&advertising-location=at_profile_cars&fromDealerSearchResults=%2Fretailer%2Fstock%3Fadvertising-location%3Dat_cars%26advertising-location%3Dat_profile_cars%26dealer%3D27425%26onesearchad%3DUsed%26onesearchad%3DNearly%2520New%26onesearchad%3DNew%26page%3D1%26sort%3Dprice-asc%26make%3DHonda%26advanced%3Dtrue&advanced=true&dpp=27425&make=Honda&sort=price-asc&percentVehiclePriceDeposit=true
4. Something else... but absolutely no idea at this stage.
The Qashqai is fairly comfortable but that's really where the enjoyment of it ends. It's clunky (in a suspension context), it's loud in a road noise and i think wheel bearing context. But it does go, stop, work and drive... but it's far from being a car i like. Was arguably not my best move buying it. But does that mean i want to lob a bucket load of cash in there.. I don't know.
Get a garage to force a re-gen. If that doesn't work clean the DPF and get rid. EML will affect value and salability.
How do you drive it?
Lots of short and/or slow driving?
Can fill a DPF in months if you don't drive in a way that allows it to clean itself out...
Recently it's been short, but generally with MTB trips it's a decent 150miles trip once a week. But last 2-3 weeks we've not been anywhere substantial. Plenty of 200+ mile days out though in the last few months for sure.
The EML is cleared at the moment with my code reader... but obviously if i keep it i want something done to sort it... but there's limits on what i'm prepared to throw at it in terms of repair.
Probably time for an expensive repair, or a cheap clean and move it on.
No experience of this. However there's plenty of videos about doing this yourself with the chemicals, hot water & a jetwash. Looks like a proper manky job. If the £250 quid is a drive in - drive out solution I might be tempted.
It's even less faff than that.
It's "open front door, make bloke a cup of tea, leave him to it"
There's many other places of course but this was one i found on google etc.
Go do 70mph in 4th gear for 20mins and see if that triggers a cleaning of the DPF, I can tell when my DPF is getting blocked up as when I park the engine keeps making a noise like a plane taking off! I then go and do the above which resolves it.
@weeksy that place is just forcing a re-gen. You local garage may be cheaper. I had assumed that "cleaning" meant removal, jet washing and refit.
Yeah i did an Italian tune up on Sat on the way to Rogate... but i've never noticed any of my cars 'do' a regen/clean... I doubt that cleans it though in the same way ? But i must admit, i know very little about these things.
Recently it’s been short, but generally with MTB trips it’s a decent 150miles trip once a week. But last 2-3 weeks we’ve not been anywhere substantial. Plenty of 200+ mile days out though in the last few months for sure.
Contrary to popular belief they don't fill up so fast that a couple of weeks without a long trip blocks it. You need to constantly ONLY do short trips for ages even when it's giving you messages on the dash about it.
They can however fill up quickly if there is some other problem with the engine causing excessive smoke. In which case a DPF clean won't fix that, it'll just empty the DPF and allow it to fill back up again quickly. If you are doing a mix of driving and your DPF still fills up, something else is wrong.
that place is just forcing a re-gen. You local garage may be cheaper. I had assumed that “cleaning” meant removal, jet washing and refit.
His email states it's a full clean, not a regen.
Ask him what that entails, ie does he remove the DPF and chemically clean it? I’d want to know what the process is before chucking money at them.
Option 3 seems to just replace the issue with a large list of potential new issues...unsure for that price it is worth it...fixing the known issue is cheaper and should then remove that issue. Buying another car just means you have a potential list of unknown issues.
fixing the known issue is cheaper
I'm not sure we do actually know what the issue really is. As I said, a blocked DPF is a symptom.
FWIW, we've recently had an egr fault followed by dpf issues on two work vehicles, a7 and a vito.
Both sorted with replacing the egr, clean and clear of the dpf.
In both cases the egr was cause, dpf a symptom.
A7 now fine for 6+months, vito only for a few weeks but its done a few 500mi days since and is due to Perth this weekend...
I'd get it cleaned and see how you go.
I am not a mechanic.
I’m not sure we do actually know what the issue really is. As I said, a blocked DPF is a symptom.
Potentially yeah, but the process comes with an in depth diagnostic pre-clean, checking all sensors, EGR, DPF, etc.... So if it's not the DFP then hopefully it will get picked up with the scanner/diagnostic. The clean they do is a chemical based in-situ clean, with re-clean if the numbers don't show as clean enough afterwards, until they're happy it's right.
So it'll get done tomorrow morning... worst case, it costs me £250 and i still buy a new car tomorrow afternoon 😀
I'm assuming if the EGR is at fault that can be replaced by Nissan as they only swapped it 5 months back.
I’m assuming if the EGR is at fault that can be replaced by Nissan as they only swapped it 5 months back.
if it's failed after just 5 months is it not covered by a warranty from Nissan?
if it’s failed after just 5 months is it not covered by a warranty from Nissan?
That's what i hope to find out as part of the process yes. It would be a reasonable assumption they will, but i'd also like to go in there armed with information as they'll likely end up saying "oh it's something else instead" plus they would want the best part of £200 to diagnose it in the first place.
Go do 70mph in 4th gear for 20mins and see if that triggers a cleaning of the DPF, I can tell when my DPF is getting blocked up as when I park the engine keeps making a noise like a plane taking off! I then go and do the above which resolves it.
I’m not disagreeing that this works for you, however it seem weirds that a regen needs to be triggered by doing this. Surely they should happen during more typical driving?
Surely they should happen during more typical driving?
You may even find they really only happen in normal driving, what with them being fairly important and needing to actually work for most people driving normally.
(otherwise nearly every auto diesel ever would need to be driven by your local carpark lapping teenager at least once a year in order to not fall over)
I’m not disagreeing that this works for you, however it seem weirds that a regen needs to be triggered by doing this.
It doesn't, normally. The car regens without you knowing about it. The only problem occurs when you repeatedly do such short drives that the regen can't complete. Eventually it'll ask you to do the 4th gear 70mph trip or whatever it tells you to do IN THE MANUAL THAT YOU DEFINITELY READ, didn't you? It's only if you ignore THAT for long enough that you'll get a problem, provided you don't have any other problem.
IN THE MANUAL THAT YOU DEFINITELY READ,
FWIW the manual for our panda (obviously your own will vary) reads
[active regen] process lasts fifteen minutes.
Optimal conditions for completing the process are
achieved by travelling at 60 km/h with engine revs
above 2000 rpm.
Which really doesn't need it to be ragged about in the wrong gear, it'll hit those revs, (especially when active regen is underway and the engine management is doing its bit) just by shifting a little later than normal, eg 4th at 35 not 30. 70mph in 5th is plenty.
And that's optimal not minimum.
It may improved since the early days, probably has.
Everything has, except nostalgia. Nostalgia was much better in the old days.
molgrips
I’m not sure we do actually know what the issue really is. As I said, a blocked DPF is a symptom.
It's all but inevitable that DPFs block, often at around 100k miles, because a regen does not clear ash but only soot
Using oil that is not low ash can lead to premature blocking for that reason. I think that how long that takes depends on how much oil the engine burns, and we know that varies a lot between individual cars as well as models.
I don't think blocking is inevitable at that age, I had my car checked at 85k and it was on 12% loading when it drove in, without having a regen forced.
molgrips
Full MemberUsing oil that is not low ash can lead to premature blocking for that reason. I think that how long that takes depends on how much oil the engine burns, and we know that varies a lot between individual cars as well as models.
I don’t think blocking is inevitable at that age, I had my car checked at 85k and it was on 12% loading when it drove in, without having a regen forced.
Posted 55 minutes ago
Sure, but I didn't say it was inevitable at that age, just that it commonly occurs then.
A regen on most cars is just a period on higher revs so the DPF gets hot. On my car its over 4k rpm for 15 mins, ie 3rd gear 70mph on the motorway.
If you take it to the garage/dealer, they just put it on the ramps, plug it in and control the revs via the computer, but it is still just higher revs for a certain period.
I haven't read every word, but do you know that the DPF is blocked?
Qashqais aren't known for DPF problems and a reasonably equipped independent garage should be able to check % full for not too much
EML diagnostic codes often relate to something upstream of the indicated fault and this is where experience comes in
DPFs do have a lifespan, maybe 100,000 miles typically, but that's a statistical average. I'd be talking to a Nissan/Renault independent, the R9M engine (if that's what it is) is in several models under both brands as well as some Merc C-class
I haven’t read every word, but do you know that the DPF is blocked?
Well no, but that's why this guy is doing the diagnostics before the DPF. So we may find it's something different, but lets see.
But for a couple of hundred quid, even if chopping it into a dealer later this week, i'd rather go in with a clear conscience that i'd had it sorted/checked/
But for a couple of hundred quid, even if chopping it into a dealer later this week, i’d rather go in with a clear conscience that i’d had it sorted/checked/
Absolutely, but I'd rather it was a specialist in that engine than a more generic DPF specialist. Either way, I hope that you get it sorted 🙂
OK, so first diag done.
Engine soot is at 35% which the target is <11% (please forgive me if i use incorrect terminology at times here).
The reason for that is a failed lambda/O2 sensor at the top of the engine, it's get zero feed/input. So that's a good start for where it's going wrong. There's another one to check which he'll do next and he'll see how that looks.
Lambda sorted and the soot levels at 14% and dropping as it still continues to run through the cleaning process... Bloke seems really excited at all of this...
I still think "meh, it's a Qashqai" hahahahaha. But at least it should now be a working one.
well its now at 3% and he's gone away happy that all sensors, EGR, DPF etc are working as they should be 🙂
My 2011 Peugeot partner has a 'clogging warning' periodically come on, normally during motorway or fast road sections. Garage can't seem to get to the bottom of it. DPF seems clean, cleaning fluid level good, forced regen didn't really do much. they've essentially said it may be the sensor and that it's running fine and regening fine, so just ignore the dash warnings and we'll look into it if you need to sell on.
Still makes me nervous when the warning comes on though.
Thanks for updating us Weeksy. Just goes to show you need mechanics who understand what's happening and don't just tell you 'It's blocked, you need a new one'.
I'm guessing that the failed Lambda sensor caused it to use a default setting, so it didn't really know how much fuel to put in, which resulted in smoke which caused the DPF to get a bit full. No amount of Italian tuning would have fixed that, in fact it would probably have made it worse.
I’m guessing that the failed Lambda sensor caused it to use a default setting, so it didn’t really know how much fuel to put in, which resulted in smoke which caused the DPF to get a bit full.
Yeah the O2 sensor is one way for the ECU to determine the fuel mixture - if it fails the the ECU will use a fallback setting that is on the rich side hence more smoke/clogging.
The outboard engine on my boat uses a [heated] O2 sensor and they can regularly fail due to moisture in the exhaust*. 5 minute fix but at $300/ sensor (Honda 'marine' tax) it was fairly unwelcome.
Surprisingly Honda have now come out with a £50 sensor which is much more acceptable.
No amount of Italian tuning would have fixed that
No chance.
Shame you didn't make a note of the error code as that would have related to no signal from the O2 sensor.
You could have actually fixed that yourself without having the PF cleaned as it would have cleaned it itself once the sensor was replaced.
* It's thought that the heating element in the sensor fails, so the engine alarms at idle when the exhaust temperature isn't high enough to heat the sensor. When running at speed the exhaust is hot enough to heat the sensor to the required temp so it works correctly but then alarms when it returns to idle and the exhaust cools again.
Shame you didn’t make a note of the error code as that would have related to no signal from the O2 sensor.
I don't think with my basic level OBDC reader it was clever enough to get anything more than a generic code, his reader was more advanced and could read values on individual items in a lot more depth. So i don't think i'd have got to the bottom without the fella coming.
I'm glad i called him though because even if i now sell it, i can do so with a clear conscience.
But the odds are, unless anything drastic happens, it'll stay a while...
The LAmbda wasn't the one with the heating sensor, there's 2 apparently on the QQ and the other one in the middle of engine bay is the one with the temp sensor.
Generic ODB codes are very coarse - manufacturers add their own codes and extra information to the generic codes, which is where all the useful info is. You can buy readers that work with them, but it varies by manufacturer.
Cheap obd should give you bank which sensor sometimes as bank one or bank two however.
You can then pull the lead of one and see if you get 2 codes then as that narrows it down
Cheap obd should give you bank which sensor sometimes as bank one or bank two however.
You can then pull the lead of one and see if you get 2 codes then as that narrows it down
That wasn't the case... it wasn't related to the O2/Lambda at all when googling the error code... Which i did at the time.