I have not seen anyone "having the vapors" or in any way getting upset about this. I have seen a fair few people question its value and being cynical about the purpose.
I have it turned off and will not be turning it on again. I don't want to be disturbed by either testing again ( clearly this test failed so will have to be done again) or by alerts which are irrelevant to me.
I have never seen a single thing in the UK for which this would have any utility
I have never seen a single thing in the UK for which this would have any utility
I assume that it can be targeted by connection to cell towers.
Getting a message to avoid Borough Market/London Bridge whilst people we running around killing people with knives would have been useful.
By the time the alert got out it would have been obvious on the ground. How many people who were not in the immediate area came into the danger zone after the police were informed?
I'm intrigued what the alert actually said. And there's definitely a fundamental flaw in it. I only saw it at 5pm when I got back in the car to drive home. There was a screed of Welsh which I couldn't read.
I swapped into Google maps to find out how far to home and then couldn't find the alert again when I wanted to read the detail
Edit: ooh, found it. It's still there under Notifications. Cool.
have never seen a single thing in the UK for which this would have any utility
Some folks have already on this thread suggested that the ability to have had this sort of alarm may have reduced confusion post the 7/7 bombings and other events (like the Ariane Grande concert bombing in Manchester)
It may have utility to reinforce flooding alerts. Hebden Bridge for example uses a siren currently that goes off in the event of a flood warning, targeted alerts to mobiles could give much more information, and could be shown to folks who live in Hebden but are elsewhere, and enable them to either make plans to stay away, or get back early to make preparations.
The events in Salisbury may have benefitted from information deployed this way. Major rail collision or airport closures like-wise.
I can think of loads of events where having information directly targeted may help.
Opinions can differ. I can see in none of those examples it making any difference at all indeed by alerting people not affected it could make things worse.
I don't live in a flood zone, I don't live near a chemical plant, I see no way it would have made any difference to those bombings. You don't get the warning before the bombing but after. Confusion on the ground is obvious - go a different way
its a solution in search of a problem IMO
@tjagain you must be walking about with your eyes shut then. Just off the top of my head nuclear power stations have an emergency alert system for anyone in the immediate exclusion zone radius should an off-site incident be declared. That system is entirely restricted to households in that area, with a general alert obviously more people can be made aware.
Flash floods happen.
Extreme weather happens (just a couple of months ago folk were getting trapped by snow on roads previously declared safe with more folk following).
Road and rail accidents involving chemicals happen.
its a solution in search of a problem IMO
Your lived experience is different to mine, I'll be leaving it on.
Squirrelking - explain why/ how a mobile phone alert will make any difference rather than just stating it will?
It may have utility to reinforce flooding alerts. Hebden Bridge for example uses a siren currently that goes off in the event of a flood warning, targeted alerts to mobiles could give much more information, and could be shown to folks who live in Hebden but are elsewhere, and enable them to either make plans to stay away, or get back early to make preparations.
I see what you're saying but does this system have that capacity?
In Norway they have the National Register which has the address of all residents and their phone numbers. We sometimes get alerts if there is an emergency situation developing and our house is in the vicinity (I've had one such message when there was a fire in a paper factory and our house was within the blast zone if there was an explosion).
I don't think the UK has anything like a National Register that has every citizen's address and phone number? Therefore any alert is going to be population wide, right?
Short of imminent nuclear antihalation, I can't think of any emergency that where it would be relevant to the entire population. Tsunami maybe?
Has a Tsunami ever hit the UK?
Bruce - its targeted by cell towers - so everyone in an area not everyone in the UK
and could be shown to folks who live in Hebden but are elsewhere,
Is that possible?
I thought it was targeted to the phone's current location.
( don't get me wrong, it should be a piece of piss to do but not sure if they can do it)
Such as? TV, radio, Facebook…?
I think the main warning depends on distance from the explosion and if its airburst.
It seems that it is easy to dismiss it when it sounds.
Erm.. easy? Pull over, search the back of the van for whatever bag the phone is in assuming its even switched on?
please hand your licence back immediately if that is going to cause you to crash your car
Its the ****wits who drive into those of us who don't have phones switched on....
Had my phone ping one of these alerts while in California, warning of a possible child abduction complete with car description and license plate.
Surely it’s worth leaving on to catch a nonce?
Did everyone take out their automatic rifle and start shooting similar looking cars?
Before such a message could be sent out, it would have be confirmed that an incident serious enough to warrant the use of the system. By the time that was done you would of heard about through other means.
It took a year to decide if cheese and wine is a work event or party.
Well one example might be you’re heading into manchester for a concert
Or you could get a "sod you, this is being sent from our underground bunker" alert... probably 5 minutes after but all the cell towers will be out anyway from the EMP so a bit pointless.
What are we meant to do anyway? Is it a Masada moment where we are meant cut our loved ones throats before the fallout?
I could see it being used in some flooding cases but I do hope it’s not controlled by the same folk who do the “weather forecast” for the Daily Mirror
If you have a smartphone and give a shit the met office does those for free.
Teej - yes there are undoubtedly many other ways that people find out about issues, from panicked crowds to police knocking on the door to seeing the queue of cars stuck ahead of them. This system is just another way of finding out, and you believe it will never be used so what's the harm in leaving it turned on just in case you are somewhere (maybe on one of your epic trips) where something notification-worthy does happen. Maybe a cocaine frenzied bear loose in a forest - I saw a documentary about that 😀
It’s another situation where the government/those in charge can’t really win. The omniscient declare the system “pointless” yet if an unforeseen situation [i]does[/i] occur where it’s useful/life-saving they’ll want to be alerted, the same as everyone else, lest we suffer the cries of “why wasn’t I warned” 😂
I see what you’re saying but does this system have that capacity?
Honestly I don't know whether it does. But if I can currently sign up for email/ text alerts from the EA about flooding, it's not beyond wild fantasy imagining to enable this system to do the same. I wouldn't trust this government to do it, but it's certainly possible technologically.
and you believe it will never be used so what’s the harm in leaving it turned on just in case you are somewhere
I believe it will be overused. I don't think its needed. I think we will get alerts that are of no use at all.
It’s another situation where the government/those in charge can’t really win. The omniscient declare the system “pointless” yet if an unforeseen situation does occur where it’s useful/life-saving they’ll want to be alerted, the same as everyone else, lest we suffer the cries of “why wasn’t I warned”
TBF, those who need 'warning' often will be the ones with zero common sense - see some of the stories from folk going out/travelling in Beast from the East, various floods and drivers who pile into deep water, winter storm warnings which people dont event have a few beans in the cupboard and couple of candles ready in case etc....
I think we will get alerts that are of no use at all.
OK, so would you bother to turn it back on if there are no spurious/irrelevant alerts in the next 12, 24, 36 or whatever months?
I'm not paranoid about this.
I just think it's pointless.
The only event I can see it being of any much use, MAYBE a terrorist attack of some kind.
However, as I'm pretty certain facts would need to be established before sending any alert, by which time anyone in the area would be aware.
I wonder how much this has cost?
I wonder who was contracted to make it happen? Serco maybe? No dodgy dealings there then.
The current government spaffing money on crappy systems that are implemented by their mates?
Has a Tsunami ever hit the UK?
Yes. The 1607 Bristol Channel flood may have been one - a considerable loss of life and, I think, if happened today would do for the Hinkley point power station/s.
This alert system would be handy if there was a recurrence of the Windscale fire of '56. Well obvz not a recurrence, but something similar. Actually, the one that caught fire is still standing, so maybe a recurrence.
anyone else have issues after the alert?
my network was playing up and then the phone (iphone13) crashed, needed a reset to get going again
I just think it’s pointless.
Not sure where you are, but around here we've relatively recently had...
- flash flooding taking out homes while still occupied
- multiple moorland fires spreading fast endangering lives
- a dam at sudden risk of imminent collapse above a town
+ genuine terrorist attacks, some stopped one sadly not
The tinfoil hat vibe is strong on this thread.
Yuo - from the folk desperate to find a use for this 🙂
Take the example of the manchester bombings. so everyone in the city centre gets the alert and all start heading out of the town centre causing traffic issues making it harder for the emergency services to get to the bombing site and creating more confusion. Potentially causing more deaths as everyone panics to get away
I turned mine off because I was going for a bike ride and I didn't want to be disturbed. Seriously I like the peace and connection to nature when on a ride.
My 83 year old mother in law has a dumb phone and that didn't do anything, I presume it is smart phones only.
At home we don't get a mobile reception so my wife and daughter didn't seem to get any messages but they will have been connected to wifi.
We live in a flood area but we always know when the rivers are going to get high, I cannot see how flood awareness will be helped by this. Maybe when travelling? probably not in my case but.
One scenario we could think of where it would be useful was when Derek Bird was shooting people and the in laws lived near Ennerdale and didn't have a clue, probably still wouldn't due to dumb phone point above.
I will turn it back on but if there is a nuclear war I want to be where the bombs land, I have seen when the wind blows 🙂
I wonder how much this has cost?
I wonder who was contracted to make it happen? Serco maybe?
Are you aware that the support for this sort of messaging has been a part of the global standards for handsets and network infrastructure for a decade or so (maybe more). The only add ons for the test would be the instruction to tell the network providers to send the message - that's the handful of top level provider not all the resellers - and of course a bit of monitoring to see what happened. Plus a massive PR campaign to tell people it's coming so they can get all indignant about it, of course.
Take the example of the manchester bombings. so everyone in the city centre gets the alert and all start heading out of the town centre causing traffic issues making it harder for the emergency services to get to the bombing site and creating more confusion. Potentially causing more deaths as everyone panics to get away
Take the example of the manchester bombings. so everyone in the city centre gets the alert and all start heading out of the town centre. As a result, some innocent young people have their lives saved by not being caught our in secondary device explosions.
Perhaps an alternative way of looking at things.
I turned mine off because I was going for a bike ride and I didn’t want to be disturbed. Seriously I like the peace and connection to nature when on a ride.
It lasted 10 seconds.
I assume that you don't talk to anyone when you are at one with nature?
Take the example of the manchester bombings.
The first attack has started and the alert is late, but some children hiding from terrorists have their phones make a loud noise, giving their location away to terrorists who then find and kill them....
As a result, some innocent young people have their lives saved by not being caught our in secondary device explosions.
More likely surely a more people would be on the streets and thus vulnerable to the secondary devices
I put my phone on mute when I go for a bike ride, if I don't want it going off then that is my prerogative don't you think?
TBF, those who need ‘warning’ often will be the ones with zero common sense – see some of the stories from folk going out/travelling in Beast from the East, various floods and drivers who pile into deep water, winter storm warnings which people dont event have a few beans in the cupboard and couple of candles ready in case etc….
So why they take notice of this system? The Beast from the East was well forecast and was no secret.
– flash flooding taking out homes while still occupied
– multiple moorland fires spreading fast endangering lives
– a dam at sudden risk of imminent collapse above a town
So if the flash flooding was so flash that nobody forecast it, how would this system help?
Who was on the moors when they were on fire?
Sudden risk of collapse? Is that the one where it was all over the news for days?
The tinfoil hat vibe is strong on this thread.
Not really, more "would rather see the government spend money on useful systems and infrastructure".
I put my phone on mute when I go for a bike ride,
That won't stop the alert.
More likely surely a more people would be on the streets and thus vulnerable to the secondary devices
Blimey, this is hard going. So perhaps it might be the case that the authorities are aware of secondary devices so use the alert to advise people to take cover indoors rather than to follow natural instinct and run from the area.
Have a look at the Netflix series on the Boston bomber and tell me if you still think there isn't a (very remote) chance that alerts like this could be useful.
I believe it will be overused. I don’t think its needed. I think we will get alerts that are of no use at all.
Speculation, opinion, speculation again.
TBH I'm kind of with you as to whether it's needed. I'm assuming that the technology is something inherent in the 4G network rather some sort of UK-specific initiative. The control setting is on everyone's phone, it'd be pretty wild if Samsung, Google, Nokia, Huawei et al had all added the feature at the behest of the UK Government. (That's one for the conspiracy theorists!) So rather, the functionality exists for territories which are prone to, say, earthquakes. Here in the UK some MP or civil servant has tripped over it and gone "hey, I wonder if this works?" so they've tested it without any real thought as to what it might be useful for.
I expect there may be a second test to see if Three have got their act together, and then it'll never be mentioned again outside of conspiracy theory circles. Who are of course now all dead after the alert activated the pathogens in the coronavirus vaccine.
Cost I'd imagine has been pushed onto the telcos - the government makes it compulsory for them to support the service.
The utility is more for natural disasters which thankfully we don't have as much as other countries. For example wildfires in Australia and California - they broadcast a "get out now" message on TV and radio, but that's not as ubiquitous as a mobile phone alert.
For the UK I'd imagine the big risks are floods and dam failures.
Armageddon and terrorist attacks are not what this solves.
Take the example of the manchester bombings. so everyone in the city centre gets the alert and all start heading out of the town centre causing traffic issues making it harder for the emergency services to get to the bombing site and creating more confusion.
You do have two-way roads in Edinburgh, yes?
Not really, more “would rather see the government spend money on useful systems and infrastructure”.
There is never a choice, it's not ever a matter of "if we pay for this, there's no money for this other thing" regardless of what govt tell you. You're no doubt aware that there are scores of folks saying exactly the same thing you're saying about this, but about LTNs and cycling infrastructure.
I turned mine off because I was going for a bike ride and I didn’t want to be disturbed. Seriously I like the peace and connection to nature when on a ride.
Why is your phone switched on in the first place then?
(Other than in case someone needs to call you in an emergency...)
My 83 year old mother in law has a dumb phone and that didn’t do anything, I presume it is smart phones only.
It is, as far as I'm aware, carried on 4G/5G networks. My mum's phone doesn't have 3G. (It barely has G, it's probably on F.)
Speculation, opinion, speculation again.
Same as those who are inventing speculative scenarios where this might be useful that equally could make the situation worse
I put my phone on mute when I go for a bike ride, if I don’t want it going off then that is my prerogative don’t you think?
Absolutely. I just wondered what happens if you meet another cyclist or horse rider when you are at one with nature and they attempt to talk to you.
Based on the rather strange preference you have not to endure a 10 second distraction.
And yeah as mentioned putting your phone on silent wouldn't have made any difference.
Why is your phone switched on in the first place then?
I put it on mute. If I fall badly my wife knows where I am or I can pull it out and make a call.
I turned these notifications off because I knew they were coming and that I would be on my bike. It is a very specific scenario.
I have reactivated the alerts now.
Absolutely. I just wondered what happens if you meet another cyclist or horse rider when you are at one with nature and they attempt to talk to you.
I am surprisingly chatty and social on a ride, I am in a happy place. I do like to get away from pings and calls whilst doing it though.
Same as those who are inventing speculative scenarios where this might be useful that equally could make the situation worse
I listed examples where it would have been useful. All likely to reoccur. We have existing ways of notifying people... many are decades old. This is a long overdue update, given how common it is to have a mobile phone close by these days. Wilfully not using the tech would be the odder choice, in my opinion.
