Subscribe now and choose from over 30 free gifts worth up to £49 - Plus get £25 to spend in our shop
Me and my partner have split up. She is planning to have my daughter christened which I'm totally against. I am non religion and think religion cause's a lot of problems. I was never christened as a child as my mum is the same as me - atheist.
I have parental responsibility for my daughter but her mother (my ex) seems intent on the circus that the christening will be...she has no interest in following the path of god...she just wants a good piss up/party and to take lots of photos of my daughter in her christening gown - hence to say Im not invited.
Is there anything I can do? I have made my feelings quite clear to my ex but she has basically stuck 2 fingers up to me.
The kid will be too young to understand so it doesn't really matter
Sounds like you object to the results of religion. However, you say your ex has no intention of bringing your daughter up like that. So... what's the problem with her doing some dressing up and having a party??
It's meaningless at the best of times and doubly so if it's done like this, some of the best heathens were christened. Though I think I understand why it would be upsetting, mind.
if she has custody and you're not invited then no, unfortunately, there's not a lot you can do.
You could always gatecrash the party dressed in furry backward cloven-hoofed legs with some comedy horns & a big pointy spear, but TBH I don't think you'd be doing yourself any favours
no sadly just hope they dont choose a religous school
my point exactly..........its a farce!
sorry i'm just venting my anger...i know i need to keep my dignity!
We had our twins christened recently and we are both atheist, although I would probably class myself as an aggressive agnostic and the wife insists she is just abstaining from the whole question of faith.
We did it to give them the option in the future. If they want to follow a religion so be it. Also for the mother-in-law(s) and to get our friends together to celebrate a bit.
Personally don't think it will make a difference how we bring them up.
religion is the root of all evil...i stand by that...look at the middle east, the vatican...need I say more!
Chillax.
As long as she knows its annoying you the more she will dig her heals in, also as she's your ex it seems like she knows what buttons to push to pi$$ you off knowing your Atheist, who gives a to$$ its just some dumb ritual just go along and have a giggle and a nice debate with the Vicar.
Fundamental atheism is as dangerous as any other fundamentalism. Put on an agnostic hat and go along and enjoy the celebration.
I think christenings have just become a chance for parents to have a "look at us, come look at our baby" they seem to be more about the party and meal now than they were years ago.
We had to go to one recently and the mother spent the whole time taking pics on her phone and most the guests talking during the service. Got home to see she had been uploading to FB straight away.
My bro and his wife made a big thing about having a humanist ceremony and now my sister in law has decided she wants to get my nephew christened.
no sadly just hope they dont choose a religous school
I teach in a high achieving C of E school. They don't push the worship side, more the community aspect which is fine by me. Would have no problem with the sprogs attending. Although maybe not while I am still teaching there.
allthepies x10
Don't fight it. No-one wins and your daughter just sees more unnecessary fighting. Save the fights for the important ones. MOre importantly, if you feel this strongly about it you need to work on being able to deal with it if she decides in the end that she has some form of 'Faith' as Duke mentioned
A bit of water being splashed on the head can't do any harm 🙂
it's irrelevant. chill. it doesn't mean your daughter is in anyway sold into a cult, marked for the convent, brainwashed or tattooed with the flames of the lord etc.
She's just using it as a way to wind you up. Don't let it.
Don't worry about it, its not like she's having a tattoo or anything - so no one knows.
Find out where the baby is getting christened and speak to the minister and voice your concerns to them. I would hope that that would stop them from performing the ceremony.
her mother (my ex) seems intent on the circus that the christening will be...she has no interest in following the path of god...she just wants a good piss up/party and to take lots of photos of my daughter in her christening gown
Standard at most Christenings, almost a fashion / tradition these days, even for the non believers!
Is there anything I can do?
Stop worrying about much to do about nothing & channel your energy into something positive??
if you were a women Id be calling you a crank...
I am non religion and think religion cause's a lot of problems.
Problems like creating a fuss over nothing ?
Do you think something magical will happen to your child if she is christened ?
Or is it all the "symbolism" which is behind a christening that you are concerned about ?
You sound as if you need a religion mate 💡
How about a naming ceremony instead?
I was Christened, I've turned out to be an Atheist so it was a bit of a waste 🙂 Given the choice I would have declined, but its not like its affected me in any way. My younger Brother was also Christened but the youngest two weren't, as by then my parents decided they could decide to get Christened later if they wanted.
Neither of my kids have been christened as my partner and i decided that they should make their own choice when they are old enough to make an educated decision on the matter, both sets of grandparents were not happy about this but i simply pointed out that no-one has the right push their beliefs onto others simply because they believe it's right.
One **** i used to work with even said to me that they would burn in hell as a result to which i replied who the **** needs a religion like that!.
No more hypocritical than getting married in church for people who never go and don't intend to in the future
Churches are just as bad taking the money regardless of the circumstances
I was the same, daughter ended up at a good school, she's done well.
Daughter more important than me, my views, or anything.........
If things have got a bit ragged between you and the ex then you really need to pick your battles - this isn't one of them.
Bit arlarse not inviting you mind.
Just go along with it, when your daughter is old enough she will make her own mind up about her beliefs.
My daughters have been christened Greek Orthodox, blame the wife...
I am a dyed in the wool atheist but I just went along as it made my life easier and I managed to get some bike bits through a bit of horse trading.
Biggest pile of nonsense ever, but as there were loads of greeks there we got a few quid out of I suppose.
Is there anything I can do?
yes there is. Chill. If you're an atheist then presumably you believe that there are no gods to be appeased or promised to, so the ceremony is a harmlessly meaningless charade.
How about having another naming ceremony for your daughter under the auspices of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (may His Noodly Appendage touch you!) or the Invisible Pink Unicorn? Invite the wife. See if she likes the p1ss-up then!
We've decided to let our two make their own minds up , neither me or the missus are believers , but we send our oldest to a C of E school. The reason is it was getting the best Ofsted reports for our area across the range of subjects taught which gives him a better chance to do well.
He regularly comes home saying 'God did this Jesus did that' we just say 'that is what many people believe and when you get older you can decide if you believe it too' , at the moment God is winning. 🙄
Presumably as the father you have the right to be there and involved in the ceremony. You could keep youself amused by slightly too loudly (but in your nicest and most resonable manner) telling the vicar what you think of religion and those involved in organised religion and that you object to your sprog being involved in the sharade just before it starts. Might be fun watching every squirm.
SBrock ive not indoctrinated my kids, i've also never been done and I don't intend to. Organised religion just does not feel free in my mind but if it elevates the happiness of people then thats great.
I'm no hippy, but me and my wife are of the view that the kids can make their minds up when they are older. They need to make that call themselves and when the time is right their decision will be informed and theirs alone.
I see your point but as others have said i'd not worry too much.
If it clearly bothers you as much as you say then religion may have more of a hold on you than you probably realise?
Listen to 'I am mine' by Pearl Jam to work out the meaning of life in over 3 minutes flat!
At the end of the day, what does it really mean? If your ex is happy planning the parade, leave her to it. There will be far more important matters in the future.
We did it to give them the option in the future. If they want to follow a religion so be it
You don't have to have been christened as a baby to become a Christian later in life. You can be christened later if you want.
Lil Meg has not been christened.
You could keep youself amused by slightly too loudly (but in your nicest and most resonable manner) telling the vicar what you think of religion
He'll have heard it all before, and if he's any good he will have a good answer for you.
Buy your daughter a copy of the Qur'an, and a Hijab.
That will teach your ex to force religion onto your daughter.
My daughters have been christened Greek Orthodox,
Oh that's terrible, to give them both such a strange name!! Was it in a CofE church?
Both of my daughters where christened, both went to church school followed by catholic school, both now have absolutely no interest in religion, and they are fine.
If it really bothers you that much,then as Antipope of the Cult of the Dancing Possum,I am fully qualified to unbaptise people,and for a small fee,will happily arrange a modest ceremony.
Ian
P.S. The Cult does not accept new members,so I have noexperience in baptisms,but we are nothing if not a flexible religion.
I was christened and funnily enough it's had pretty much zero effect on my life...and last i checked i hadn't started any wars or done much evil in my time... stop being a muppet would be my advice.
praise da laaaaaard! brother the jes-mandingo
I haven't accidently unbaptised you ,have I rumbledethumps? Only you seem to have got religion from somewhere,and it's not making a very good advertisement.
Ian
You could always go along for your daughters sake. Slip in at the last minute & leave straight away. You don't have to get involved in the circus afterwards. If it does turn out to be something that plays a part in her life at least she will have the knowledge you were there, even if its something you oppose.
Brother Ian is that you?
I am non religion and think religion cause's a lot of problems. I was never christened as a child as my mum is the same as me - atheist
Ah, you're a bigot, and you've based that on blind faith in your mother's beliefs.
Sounds like you and religion will get on just fine.
I think you are probably objecting more to the fact it's happening against your will, rather than the principle of the event itself. It must be heartbreaking to have no control over what happens to your child, so you really have my sympathy. In this instance though, there really isn't any harm in it. You state yourself that your ex isn't interested in religion, so she won't have any views to push onto your child, therefore your child will make its own mind up, and probably won't even be aware for many, many years that the ceremony took place!
Take a deep breath, let them get on with it. You can't influence what happens, so at least save yourself from getting an ulcer over it.
Good luck 🙂
Shock horror, STW forumites with no idea of what they're debating, again!
OP, 'Christening' your child does not make them a 'Christian'. It merely reassures the believers that, in the event of infant mortality, the child's soul will ascend to heaven. It's a bit like a provisional driving licence.
As the child grows to adulthood [u]they[/u] can decide if they want to take their test, or not. This is called Confirmation.
Christenings need not be a huge happy celebration for the families involved, they can be carried out by any confirmed Christian, in private, and without witness, or even the parent's consent. Is that Daily Mailish enough for you?
In no way is your child being inducted into a cult. For most people it is merely a celebration of their child surviving the first months of life.
If you want to spoil that.......
Shock horror, STW forumites with no idea of what their debating, again!
I didn't realise that it was a subject which required specialist expertise.
I have been to several christenings, and thought I knew what they were about.
Is there a book on the subject which will help me understand more ?
Trampus - Member"As the child grows to adulthood they can decide if they want to take their test, or not. This is called Confirmation."
That's what I did but unfortunately I failed with a minor fault for poor observation, and a major for not believing in God.
^lol
Ernie, judging from most of the posts, yes it is.
Attending a christening should make things clear, there is an 'Order of Service' usually provided.
Books? I've no idea, sorry.
I'm an atheist. 🙁
Northwind, 🙂
" I am non religion" [sic]
OK. Then you believe the ceremony is just harmless splashing of water on head and a smiles from relatives. Nothing to be concerned about.
Is there anything I can do?
Yes - teach the child that religion is a load of bunkum for the feeble-minded and teach her to be strong with good values.
Then the stupid ceremony becomes irrelevant.
teach her to be strong with good values.
Is this not the underlying message of most religions?
[i]Is this not the underlying message of most religions? [/i]
+1
Not a believer myself but teaching a child religion is bunkum and for feeble minded people is just another form of brainwashing.
If I was in the OP's shoes I would be pissed off. But thats probably part of the reason his ex is so keen! If you were still together than a non-religous naming ceremony would do everything except the weird "soul going to heaven" part - but if your not able to have a sensible discussion about that. I guess if she is "entitled" to do this without your consent then you could fight for custody in which case you would be "entitled" to prevent it? But custody battles are messy and horrible, have long term implications, and may be unsuccessful - and as this issue could polarise views this might not help!
? eh ? surely the route to "give them the option" is to do nothing?[b]Duke:[/b] We had our twins christened recently and we are both atheist, although I would probably class myself as an aggressive agnostic and the wife insists she is just abstaining from the whole question of faith.We did it to give them the option in the future. If they want to follow a religion so be it. Also for the mother-in-law(s) and to get our friends together to celebrate a bit.
Personally don't think it will make a difference how we bring them up.
Wallop has said what I was about to write. I've gone through separation and I can empathise that decisions made by an ex partner that exclude your own feelings can be very hard to deal with. In this case it is only a mild social ritual. No more than that.
Someone told me, when I had similar anxieties that we have to have the courage to let our children be who they want to be. At that time, it was a hard thing for me to accept as this may be for you. Hopefully you can see that your daughter will still be your daughter no matter what.
Also lol @ Northwind.
<edit>
These parties don't get held so often in some countries.
Ernie, judging from most of the posts, yes it is.
Attending a christening should make things clear, there is an 'Order of Service' usually provided.
'Order of Service'? .......that sounds suspiciously like the sort of shenanigans that heretical protestants get up to 😕
The only christenings I've ever been to were associated with the one true and universal catholic church.
And just a small point, it's a 'baptism' ....... John the Baptist (who was a catholic btw) was called "John the Baptist" not bleedin "John the Christenist".
That's the problem when you start your own religion and have a Queen as the head........ they're clueless - that's what they are.
Even Jesus Christ was baptised (by John the Baptist) How could Christ have been christened ? ....... for christ sake
Do these church officials need to have CRB checks done to let them have contact with children?
I did just for coaching Table Tennis and child molestation seems to have been endemic amongst some religious orders.
Hi! 😀
Fundamental atheism
Otherwise known as..... atheism....
My children will definitely be christened. My wife is Polish, where the Catholic Church still is a very important part of life. It's important for her, despite the fact that she isn't a practicing Catholic. As it's n non issue for me, it only bothers me that we have to go to Poland for the ceremony 😉 I am looking forward to seeing what happens. Our wedding was fun, especially my Polish vows!
I am agnostic, so find the ceremonial aspects of the church quite interesting. I wouldn't worry about your child being indoctrinated OP, especially in a country like this where religion lacks relevance. If asked about jesus' actions or whatever, my stock answer will be [i]it doesn't matter what someone else did or did not do. What matters is what you do. Treat people with dignity and respect and you'll normally receive the same in response.[/i]
Yes - teach the child that religion is a load of bunkum for the feeble-minded and teach her to be strong with good values.
Yes, teaching a child that a good percentage of the world is feeble minded is clearly the way towards a more tolerant society 🙄 What I think is that some people need to believe and some are adjusted towards it by social circumstances. If you lack respect for someone because of their religion, that says more about you tbh.
One of the best facets of all religions is their view of those who dont believe. It is the very definition of tolerance and they have never persecuted anyone who disagreed with them 🙄
Yours Kafir, gentile infedel etc
You are talking about religions Junkyard. I am talking about people. The religious people I've met have never persecuted me, in my wifes case it was quite the opposite 😀
Equally, I choose not to accept blame for the hideous actions of the British Empire, despite enjoying the spoils...
I would probably class myself as an aggressive agnostic
How on earth can you be an aggressive agnostic?
i wouldnt worry.
she wont remember/care anyway.
you COULD worry about people later on (her school) leading her up the garden path to one religion or another, but ONLY as much as they might worry about you trying to enforce her atheism.
Born again evanglical atheists, and thier deity, Richard Dawkins, are just as much trouble IMO (not that implying you are one!)
when shes old enough, educate her about all the options, and let her decide on her own.
no harm will be done by christening, and as long as its her mother money shes wasting, i wouldn't even worry about it.
my 2 nephews have been christened, i'm even a god-parent to the youngest 😯
as far as i can tell no harm came from it.
Simples. Don't go to the church, don't go to the party, ignore the whole event. Consider if daughter looks back at photos in years to come she will ask why you were not there.
Unless you're completely not involved with ex & daughter by then....
TJ - as someone born into a largely catholic family, I have to say I find your 'feeble minded' comment insulting. As many others on here have said, the ceremony itself is no big deal, and even the OP has stated that the little girl wont be brought up with religion having any real influence, so it's no big deal really, more the fact that his ex appears to be disregarding his feelings. So, then, why is religion for the feeble minded TJ? I'm no rocket scientist, admittedly, but I seem to have done ok, as has the mrs (she's recently finished her second masters degree, and the last time I checked, she hadnt managed to walk in front of any traffic or eat anything poisonous). It's boringly predictable on here, but as soon as there's any mention of religion, comments such as yours get wheeled out. Dont get me wrong, it doesnt create any real problems in my life, I just find it annoying 🙄
Fundamental atheism is as dangerous as any other fundamentalism
How does this manifest itself and dependent on your answer can you identify where and how this is "dangerous"?
barnsleymitch - MemberTJ - as someone born into a largely catholic family, I have to say I find your 'feeble minded' comment insulting.
Oh FFS don't start that nonsense - this thread doesn't warrant a mega-page conclusion.
I can't believe that you want to encourage things to kick off.
Just accept that TJ has no tolerance of people with a different opinion/belief/lifestyle/whatever......and that it doesn't cause you "any real problems" although apparently you "find it annoying"...... and leave it at that.
ernie - starting off 'nonsense' was never my intention. I dislike being viewed as foolish, simple as that. People have different views, thats what makes the world go around, and just because we dont always agree, it doesnt make those views any less valid. Surely, as intelligent adults, we dont have to resort to insults, or am I just being naive?
To clarify, it's not TJ's views on religion that I disagree with, he is, of course, entitled to his opinions, as are all members of the forum, and I wouldnt attempt for one second to change that - its just the insults I dont like.
I dislike being viewed as foolish
By TJ ? A geezer on the internet who you've never met ? Why is approval from TJ so important to you ?
I couldn't give a monkeys if some punters on a bike forum think I'm "foolish". Especially when I've got a very low opinion of them.
TBH I can't believe you're that sensitive, so I'll stick to my original suggestion that you want to encourage things to kick off 💡
Deliberately provocative from me. Sorry if you took it personally Mitch
However I do believe that belief in a supernatural being is incompatable with rationality
It doesnt really matter what I say then does it ernie? I'm trying to explain things as politely as I can, as I really dont want to provoke an argument, in spite of your insistence otherwise. Entering into further debate over the issue will only reinforce your belief that I simply want to encourage things to kick off, so I'll withdraw as gracefully as I can.
You are talking about religions Junkyard. I am talking about people. The religious people I've met have never persecuted me, in my wifes case it was quite the opposite
A mildly amusing reposte/pin head dance but do you wish to deny that organised religion is intolerant of non believers ?
The empire was built on values that no longer ar upheld. have the principle of religion changed over time or they somewhat written in stone?
I'm trying to explain things as politely as I can, as I really dont want to provoke an argument, in spite of your insistence otherwise.
So you have never heard of the potentially volatile mix which is created when you introduce religion into STW ?
It's all news to you is it mitch ?
yeah right
Turn up at the church, uninvited, and at the bit where the man says "Does anybody present know any good reason why.."
Am I thinking of the right one here?
Or maybe as a christening present you can send her a gift-wrapped Singletrack login.