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it will be good to see an outsider wins.
Bernie Sanders?
Too close to call but it will be good to see an outsider wins.
And that's about the most sensible reason that's been given for putting any weight behind him.
The rest is just delusion.
If you picked the outsider at random from the population who can tie their own shoe laces etc. maybe but Trump. Is not an outsider, he is a businessman (serial gambler) who is part of the system maybe not the political machine but the outer circle of money.
Being an outsider doesn't make up for the other very dangerous stuff.
Someone who can get the Clintons to come his daughter's wedding is not an "outsider".
I expected remain to win by a Rizla thick margin. I was wrong on that one.
Might be proved wrong on this, doubt it though. Can't see the merican aspirationals and vast middle classes being convinced by his huffing and puffing converting to actual votes. We shall see could be a hat eating year for me 😆
I think Trump's responce would be he pays hundreds (billion) in various real estate and sales taxes through his business plus of course all the employee taxes via the jobs he's created. Also it's said he didn"t pay Federal taxes, nothing mentioned about State taxes. In addition to Chris Christie, Rudolph Guiliani (ex mayo of nyc who feally clean up the city) said he was a genius for not paying tax, Trump doesn't make the tax code he just follows it.
The Clintons came to the wedding as Trump was a major donar to Democrats at one time as they would have sucked up to him as a result.
In addition to Chris Christie, Rudolph Guiliani (ex mayo of nyc who feally clean up the city) said he was a genius for not paying tax, Trump doesn't make the tax code he just follows it.
Massive leap there Jamby, have you read his tax returns? Nobody knows if he is following the rules as he isn't releasing his records. The IRS are investigating him which suggests it's not all above board. If he is such a genius he could release his records so we could all see how much of a genius he is or....
The Clintons came to the wedding as Trump was a major donar to Democrats at one time as they would have sucked up to him as a result.
Which makes him part of the establishment not an outsider, and for Republicans why did their candidate give lots of cash to their political opponents! Is it because he is an oppertunist simply looking out for himself?
He was completely bulldozed by gang of Clintons.GrahamS - Member
Bernie Sanders?
It could be Trump winning by 50.1% while Clinton losing at 49.9% coz it is that close. You only need one person to blink and the other will fall. I am afraid we are all delusional however you think you may be.captainsasquatch - Member
And that's about the most sensible reason that's been given for putting any weight behind him.
The rest is just delusion.
A risk worth taking as the alternative is worst.mikewsmith - Member
Being an outsider doesn't make up for the other very dangerous stuff.
It could be Trump winning by 50.1% while Clinton losing at 49.9% coz it is that close. You only need one person to blink and the other will fall. I am afraid we are all delusional however you think you may be.
You know it doesn't quite work like that, it's not about % it's about state performance (and he is behind in the swing states in the demographics needed to win them and he has 2 more debates to shoot his feet in)
and for a simple explanation
State of play
Solid Democrat 15 States, [b]188 Votes[/b] California (55), Connecticut (7), Delaware (3), District of Columbia (3), Hawaii (4), Illinois (20), Maine-01 (1), Maryland (10), Massachusetts (11), New Mexico (5), New Jersey (14), New York (29), Oregon (7), Rhode Island (4), Vermont (3), Washington (12)
Likely Democrat 3 States, [b]25 votes[/b] Maine-AL (2), Minnesota (10), Virginia (13)
Lean Democrat 5 States, [b]59 votes[/b] Colorado (9), Michigan (16), New Hampshire (4), Pennsylvania (20), Wisconsin (10)
Toss Up 4 States*, [b]70 votes[/b] Florida (29), Maine-02 (1), Nebraska-02 (1), Nevada (6), North Carolina (15), Ohio (18)
Lean Republican 3 States, [b]33 votes[/b] Arizona (11), Georgia (16), Iowa (6)
Likely Republican 3 States, [b]27 votes[/b] Indiana (11), Missouri (10), Utah (6)
Solid Republican 18 States, [b]136 votes[/b] Alabama (9), Alaska (3), Arkansas (6), Idaho (4), Kansas (6), Kentucky (8), Louisiana (8), Mississippi (6), Montana (3), Nebraska-AL (2), Nebraska-01 (1), Nebraska-03 (1), North Dakota (3), Oklahoma (7), South Carolina (9), South Dakota (3), Tennessee (11), Texas (38), West Virginia (5), Wyoming (3)
270 Required
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-27/us-electoral-college-explainer/7787472
Clinton could win without any of the "Toss Up" States (272 from the Solid/Likely/Lean)
http://www.politico.com/2016-election/swing-states
He is down in most swing states too
mikewsmith - Member
and for a simple explanation
It looks like a forgone conclusion is it not?
That the next President is President Clinton II then?
If that's the case I don't know why people get so work up with Trump.
Let see how long the Merican can stand another Clinton or Democrats Presidency.
Should be good to observe ...
It looks like a forgone conclusion is it not?
That the next President is President Clinton II then?
If that's the case I don't know why people get so work up with Trump.
Nothing is gaurnteed unfortunalty.
The reason people are worked up is probably due to the way he is pedalling lies, making stuff up and using a lot of the same tactics other hate preachers etc. use. He is promising the impossible with no means to deliver it. One of the greatest oxygen thieves of his generation.
Let see how long the Merican can stand another Clinton or Democrats Presidency.
Better than a Trump one, probably less war.
The balance will come in the other results, with a democrat majority in both houses it may be that catalyst to pass some ground breaking legislation in the US (catch up the europe in the 80's) around health, tax, education, equlaity, environment and gun control.
A progreessive America would benifit the world.
Trump is more than a deluded windbag. He is a very dangerous man because he has an obvious narcisistic personality disorder. The traints that this gives him makes him very dangerous as he is incapable of any empathy, incapable of understanding he can make a mistake and liable to temper tantrums.
I've just attended a rally for Mike Pence.
I'm not really sure how to explain the whole thing. It was rather odd and I think I've lost a little bit of faith in humans.
Vote for "Mike2Pence" 😉
Was it a bet or a dare?
There is always the first time you might be bankrupted in business or to go into severe financial difficulty but the question is will you start a business again if you are bankrupted?
Bear in mind the next few years could be turbulent and the risk might be high with every chance of making a mistake (we all do), so there is always a likelihood you might be bankrupted for the first time.
The second question is whether you can cope with bankruptcy Trump managed but can you?
There is no certainty in life one minute you could be flying high the next minute you could be bankrupted or unemployed etc ... can you cope?
Therefore, you will only know yourself when you are bankrupted for the first time and perhaps you will see Trump differently after that.
Only a Trump fanboi could spin 4 bankruptcies into a strength.
FOUR TIMES.
That's not a strength.
That's a sign that you were in the wrong business..
Or it was done for tax purposes.
mrlebowski - Member
...FOUR TIMES.That's not a strength.
That's a sign that you were in the wrong business..
On the other hand, that's four times from something like 500 businesses (or so I understand) he has put his name to (i.e. those which are/were considered to be 'his' businesses). In that light, fewer than 1% going bankrupt over a career seems not too bad, especially when you consider TJ's last point, it's not unknown for people to collapse businesses on purpose to minimise losses.
Not that I'm defending him, mind you, I can't decide whether he's just a prize womble or some sort of sociopath.
If he's such a great businessman hoe come all his casinos in Atlantic City underpeformed in comparison to other casinos in the area?
Trumps money:
[url= https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/29/the-myth-and-the-reality-of-donald-trumps-business-empire/ ]Washington Post[/url]
[url= https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/02/26/fact-checking-the-tenth-gop-debate/ ]WP fact checker[/url]
Max Ehrenfreund of The Washington Post’s Wonkblog documented that Trump’s business performance was actually relatively poor given the massive real estate assets that he inherited from his father. Citing an independent evaluation, Business Week put Trump’s net worth at $100 million in 1978. Ehrenfreund said that had Trump gotten out of real estate entirely, put his money in an index fund based on the S&P 500 and reinvested the dividends, he’d be worth twice as much — $6 billion — today.
Trump:
Good at turning himself into a brand.
Not so good as an honest businessman.
Basically, he's the Kim Kardashian of politics......hopefully without the sex tape!!
Sadly, I believe he is in a playboy video 😯
mrlebowski - MemberOnly a Trump fanboi could spin 4 bankruptcies into a strength.
FOUR TIMES.
That's not a strength.
That's a sign that you were in the wrong business..
6 btw, according to Politifacts.
But it's not so simple. The gambling failures were (apparently, I'm more or less reposting) funded mostly by borrowing, in a fairly risky sector. Some look like bad investments tbh, competing with themselves, but the bottom line is some businesses are a risk, they can't all pay off. Bankruptcy itself is a sign of failure in a business but not necessarily a parent company or owner, especially when it's other people's money you lose. And what's really obvious when Trump talks about business is it's all about whether he gained or lost, not whether the business did, his idea of success is to get out with some money.
Where it gets dirtier is how the bankruptcies really came about and the impact they had. Frinstance, in 1993 Trump raised $100m in bonds that was supposed to go to the casino business, but half of it was used instead to repay his own personal debts. And then in 95 he went public and also raised funds through more bonds, then again took that money straight out of the company and used it to pay his own debts and release his securities. Then again in 1996 where a further public offering and more bonds were used to buy a part of the company that Trump had previously guaranteed with one of his other companies. Again transferring risk away from Trump to investors and the public. (he was sued, and later settled out of court).
Then there were various bouts of circular lending- Trump borrowed from a bank then when he was going to default on that loan, borrowed from one of the casinos to stay afloat. And while the casinos lost money he took salary and bonuses of millions of dollars, borrowed money from the businesses that was forgiven, sold Trump branded products to them for enormous markups. There's a lot more similiar arrangements- they were run like his own personal toy and wallet even though they were public companies. He sold a personal stake in one of the casinos back to the casino for over market price frinstance, in 2004, shortly before the casino filed for bankruptcy protection, which caused a $500m loss for other stakeholders.
And then when he was finally forced to give up control of the companies, and shortly after the Taj Mahal went out of business, he sued the company because the closed casino was damaging his brand 😆
When the bankruptcies occurred it was a blend of crippling, expensive debt- of which so much had gone to Trump personally or elsewhere in the business- and underperformance, which Trump always blames on the atlantic city market even though most of the industry was growing revenue while his shrank.
So it's not "he went bankrupt therefore he's a bad businessman"- though, that's not to say he's not. It's a lot more complex and frankly a lot worse than that. Trump says "I did great in Atlantic City" "I made a lot of money there"- and possibly he did after all the possibly-legal fund exchanges and loans and stock deals and bankrputcies and writeoffs are done... but he lost a lot of other people's money, from investors to small businesses to employees, driving others out of business. He'd probably say "because I'm smart"
(and possibly, millions of dollars of his dad's- funny how he mentions that "small loan" that he got to set up, but doesn't mention the illegal cash injection that kept him afloat in 1990. It's not clear whether Fred ever got that back- there's no paper trail obviously!)
Sounds like he's an expert on Ponzi schemes then - should be the perfect person to manage public finances 😉
> Basically, he's the Kim Kardashian of politics......hopefully without the sex tape!!Sadly, I believe he is in a playboy video 😯
Indeed he is.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/donald-trump-appeared-in-a-2000-playboy-softcore-porn
Thankfully it was just a cameo and The Donald didn't actually take part in the main action (involving twin sisters who "bare their sex appeal and lead you on a sensual journey of discovery").
Though you do have to wonder how the American media would have reacted to a female candidate that appeared in a playboy video promoting incest.
Let's hope whoever wins the US Presidency will win with narrow margin. Then they can keep each other busy while sticking their noses in the own business. The world does not need a US world police for interfering in other sovereign nations' domestic affairs. Implanting the so called "freedom" mindset has resulted in the near total collapse of some middle east countries.
I think there is a balance to be struck chewkw.
Using planes, bombs and missiles to force "democracy" on countries that didn't particularly ask for it but happen to have oil reserves is clearly not very helpful.
But likewise ignoring breaches of international law, allowing dictators to commit genocides, or permitting terrorist groups to take over countries against the will of their people is not particularly conducive to world peace either.
Anyone else think that Assange is probably dealing like mad right now to swap not releasing any info with the dropping of charges in Sweden?
Is anyone else disappointed that this isn't a thread about a new political special edition of Top Trumps based on that there Donald's biggest gaffes / lies / sexist moments / racist comments etc?
Dab the advantahes of vicariously shared experiences on STW is we don't have to watch, we can take your word for it
Northwind you are describing the classic US private equity model. Trump hasn't personally gone bankrupt 6 times, what he has done is start dozens of businesses eaxh in seperate companies and some of them have failed, yes he may have put his name on a big plaque outside but legally he is not financially responsible.
The issue here is the US tax code allows you to carry forward losses from year to year for personal taxes. So if youbare Trump why not take advantage of that ? He didn't make the rules and neither Republican or Democratic Presidents have changed them
Channel 4 piece, as its says at the end Americans hate paying taxes and the fact The Don has swerved them gets a "Chapeau" from many.
He didn't make the rules and neither Republican or Democratic Presidents have changed them
No, he didn't make the rules, but there is a presumption on his taking advantage of them and paying a minimal amount of tax where he should, in my opinion, pay a fair share of tax so as to ensure businesses don't go bankrupt.
Seems fair to me. And you Jamba, is it fair to expect him to pay his fair share rather than taking huge sums for his personal fortune?
Not releasing the info is clearly seen as suspicious. Lack of info is also seen as some as no wrong doing (which is quite funny and if the boot were on the other foot) by his supporters.
Did we get the cock up with the PTSD vets
At an event with veterans in Herndon, Virginia, Mr Trump called for better mental health services for those returning from combat, saying while many are "strong," others "can't handle" what they have seen on the battlefield.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-04/trump-defends-remarks-on-veterans-and-mental-health/7900698
or His TV crews are tearing coming out
"We were in the boardroom one time figuring out who to blame for the task, and he just stopped in the middle and pointed to someone and said, 'You'd f... her, wouldn't you? I'd f... her. C'mon, wouldn't you?'
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-04/trump-repeatedly-demeaned-women-on-hit-show-the-apprentice/7899898
It's OK he used the STW misogyny defence
Trump's comments 'playful banter'
or his charity
[b]Donald Trump's charity ordered to stop fundraising in New York state [/b]
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-04/trump-foundation-ordered-to-stop-fundraising-in-new-york/7899618
Perhaps he may regret being in the public eye so much
Captain - if the Government of the day thinks the tax system is unfair it can change it. It's not up to individuals to pay more than they are legally obliged too. Unrealised capital gains are not taxed anywhere, not in the US not in the UK. If Trump owns assets which gomup in value and doesn't sell he oays no tax. If he did generate a $916m tax loss 20 years ago by "selling" assets that is smart as fhe US allows those tax losses to be carried forward indefinitely. Thats a stupid piece of tax law but no one changed it.
BBC did a Trump v Clinton poll at the Tory Conference yesterday and Clinton came out the clear winner. Interestingly John Snow from Channel 4 News said he thought Trump would win.
[quote=jambalaya ]Captain - if the Government of the day thinks the tax system is unfair it can change it. It's not up to individuals to pay more than they are legally obliged too.
It isn't standard and expected practice for individuals to publish their tax returns, so it's a complete non issue for them whether other people think that aggressive tax avoidance is unacceptable.
point being missed again
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Kaine: Why won't he release his tax returns?Pence: We are answering the question about business thing.
Kaine: I do want to come back to this.
Pence: His tax returns showed that he went through a very difficult time but he used the tax code just the way it was supposed to be used and he did it brilliantly.
Kaine: How do you know that?
Pence: Because he has created a business that is worth billions of dollars.
Kaine: How do you know that?
Pence: This whole riff about not paying taxes and people saying he didn't pay taxes for years, Donald Trump has created tens of thousands of jobs and he has paid payroll tax..."
The people who know are The Donald and his accounting team, everything else is speculation (with some emphatic leaping in front of bullets)
Pence: This whole riff about not paying taxes and people saying he didn't pay taxes for years, Donald Trump has created tens of thousands of jobs and he has paid payroll tax..."
That's me sold.
C'mon Trumpy.
Look at me Mom!
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I wonder why John Snow at C4 news believes Trump will win ?
I wonder why John Snow at C4 news believes Trump will win ?
I don't know, I guess he might have explained it at the time or did you stop listening at that point?
Trumps vice, Mike Pence, seems to be in some kind of weird denial:
http://trofire.com/2016/10/05/less-12-hours-post-debate-clinton-uses-pences-debate-words-stunning-new-ad/
Ouch
Figured that one was coming, we could do with a forum fact check 😉
Waiting for the Trumpettes to come along and defend that one.
This thread is about to become even more amusing. 😆
I don't know, I guess he might have explained it at the time or did you stop listening at that point?
You'd know the answer if you had actuaooy watched the coverage. Nope he made a quick remark to BBC after taking part in their Trump v Clinton "snap poll" at the Conservative Party Conference.
wow he really is a horrible person
“Your girl’s hot as s---, in the purple,” says Bush, who’s now a co-host of NBC’s “Today” show.“Whoa!” Trump says. “Whoa!”
“I’ve gotta use some tic tacs, just in case I start kissing her,” Trump says.“You know I’m automatically attracted to beautiful -- I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait.”
“And when you’re a star they let you do it,” Trump says. “You can do anything.”
“Whatever you want,” says another voice, apparently Bush’s.
“Grab them by the p---y,” Trump says. “You can do anything.”
[quote=kimbers ]wow he really is a horrible person
You've only just realised?
Wrong thread ... opps.
wow he really is a horrible person
Which, of course, isn't illegal.
even his VP is bailing on him
Suddenly, and without explanation, the pool was told Pence would be leaving directly after he finished dining, without looking at the signatures or shaking any more hands. The pool was instructed to return to the press bus and was not permitted to film Pence leaving the restaurant - thus stripping them of an opportunity to ask Pence for his reaction to the news.
Full scale operation to discredit him operation on now, "leak" above plus story from the Obama administration that hackers are targetting Hillary's campaign with clear inference "Putin wants Trump to win"
Discredited? Hard when it all seems to be true though.
Of course nobody has been trying to do that to the Clinton campaign have they.
And thanks that's the explanation
You'd know the answer if you had actuaooy watched the coverage. Nope he made a quick remark to BBC
Personally I don't see a path to him winning at this point. He has 2 more goes to finish the race off at the debates and the town hall format of the next one will leave him horribly exposed to saying what he thinks.
Full scale operation to discredit him operation on now, "
more like exposed as a very nasty person who brags about sexually assaulting women,
funnily enough most people find that quite repellant, rather than just labeling it as some sort of malicious smear campaign?
[quote=jambalaya ]Full scale operation to [s]discredit him[/s] expose what he really is operation on now
[url= http://www.itv.com/news/2016-10-07/hes-a-total-complete-utter-moron-brian-blessed-delivers-his-damning-verdict-on-trump/ ]Brian Blessed appears undecided[/url]
These allegations corroborate his alleged victims stories about him grabbing their crotches, He'd be in a sex offenders wing somewhere if he wasn't so rich.
So, it turns out that Trump is a bit rapey. Who would have thought!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37594918
Republican hierarchy seems to have decided that he's done for now - the rats are disembarking at a frantic pace.
Debate should be fun on Sunday. I'm hoping for an actual Donald meltdown on stage as he finally realises the game is up.
I'm hoping for an actual Donald meltdown on stage as he finally realises the game is up.
This would be amazing!
Who is that guy wih a whole glass of coke in his mouth?
He has not surprisingly come out fighting, "Bill Clinton has said worse to me", " Hillary intimidated a woman Bill was having an afair with"
A leak of 10 year old recording a minth before the vote is a high risk strategy for the Democrats as Clinton is very weak on any moral stance.
This is going to go to the wire in November, less than a month to go now
Bit scary he's got this far tbh.
Indeed wilburt, I thought he wouldn't get close to winning the nomination. Now it's a two horse race between two terrible candidates
Jesus, is that the worst they have managed to drum up? I've heard far worse at the local knitting circle, let alone the rugby bus.
I don't think you are telling the truth on that one ninfan
It's not really huge shock though is it?
The man owned the Miss Universe, Miss USA and Miss Teen USA beauty pageant, he has appeared in a Playboy video, openly discussed which female Apprentice contestants he'd like to have sex with, is married to a former model 24 years younger than him, and even openly suggested he would like to have sex with his own daughter.
It's pretty obvious this is not a man with enlightened views on sexuality and misogyny.
And many of his supporters love him for that!
It plays into the whole "straight talking" anti-liberal anti-PC thing.
I'm pretty sure the guy could grope a presenter on live TV and still get support. 😕
Indeed wilburt, I thought he wouldn't get close to winning the nomination. Now it's a two horse race between two terrible candidates
There's clear daylight between the 2 - a standard corrupt political player and a sociopathic misogynist and probable rapist,fraudster and tax evader , who's reveling in stirring up racial and social divisions for a chance at power
more like exposed as a very nasty person who brags about sexually assaulting women
This.
Quite frankly how anyone can spin/defend this into anything else is simply beyond me.
I can only assume that those who do share his (Trump) views.
Fing horrendous.
It's pretty obvious this is not a man with enlightened views on sexuality and misogyny.
A veryvalied point! However, this tme Trump has felt the need to issue a full and frank apology (his first and only!), which is a good indicator that what he has done is not acceptable.
Who is that guy wih a whole glass of coke in his mouth?
Looks like Jerry Lewis.
I'm hoping for an actual Donald meltdown on stage as he finally realises the game is up.
He has "issues" when dealing with women, just needs Hilary to press the right buttons.
I just continually wonder what he is going to have to do to really stop the lunatic, or even the quite sensible, american voters choosing him.
Wherever I go in the world and have conversations with Americans, there are rather a lot of normal, tax paying, hard working folks of all races who openly support him. I am stunned by this, but the Hilary distrust runs deep.
Most sensible democrats also admit that the are pretty sure he's gonna win.
Stunning.
I think I may have already mentioned this, but friends with someone on FB who appears to be normal, quite nice and even fairly liberal (in a US sense) but apparently supports Trump because he's a Christian and disagrees with Clinton on abortion. This despite the fact that as far as I can work out any difference in opinion on abortion will make no difference to policy or laws, and there appears to be a lot about Trump I'd expect him to dislike.
That's what you're dealing with in terms of the voters.
aracer: you should google some links on Trump's abortion stance for them. It's... err.. mixed!
He has at various points been Pro-Life, Pro-Choice and a couple of stops in between.
(So pretty much like all his "policies" then)
aracerThat's what you're dealing with in terms of the voters.
There's apparently some study (sorry, that's as accurate as I can get) which suggests that undecided voters will fixate on an issue that they feel is most important to them and they'll choose their political representatives based on the representatives stance on that one issue (regardless of whether they are at odds with the politician's stance on other matters).
Not going there Graham - not somebody I really know that well and have never met in real life (yes I have some odd FB friends), so not discussing politics with him!
Fair enough. For your own interest read this brief summary:
some strong stuff coming out of the states over the remarks
'It's over'Avik Roy in Forbes, cites a number of the faux pas that have dogged Mr Trump over the past few weeks.
He says: "None of this was enough to prevent nearly all leading GOP [Republican] lawmakers from endorsing Trump as their nominee. But the latest tape just might. Why?
"Because few Republican lawmakers have Muslim relatives. Few Republican lawmakers are of Mexican heritage. Few Republican lawmakers have faced discrimination based on the colour of their skin. But all of them have white female relatives. And therefore, when Trump talks about grabbing white women by the genitals, they can directly relate."
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There's clear daylight between the 2
Based upon opinion polls ? We know how accurate those have been recently. I won't rest easily until the results are in, I very much fear there are many "shy" Trump supporters who when asked in polls say Clinton or undecided.
Based upon opinion polls ?
Why don't you just read the rest of the post you're quoting? No mention of polls or even chances of being elected, it's a reply to your assertion that they're both terrible.
Oh hello- this normally means that they are about to quit lol!
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37597756 ]Trump says he definitely will not quit[/url]
Based upon opinion polls
Nope based on the fact that he's a self professed abuser of women, to most people that would rule him out of the presidency, unless you have as little respect for women and/ or Hilary as much as he obviously does.
Worryingly there seem to be plenty of Americans who do.
Its a terrible thought that he could still win, - after all the outright lies and hate spread by Brexit, it still happened.
I wonder if his chum Farage is still heading out to advise him how to get away with being a racist arsehole in the coming denate?
The Republicans are scrambling to distance themselves from him, their endorsements, said through clenched teeth anyway, are going to come back and haunt them and they know it.
With any luck he's done lasting damage to the GOP, even more so than Palin!
even more so than Palin!
Palin! Things have gotten so crazy I almost feel nostalgic for Palin lol
How are the fanboys dealing with this then?