So the majority of American voters are ****. Nice.
The statistics don't lie... same as with brexit....
So the majority of American voters are ****. Nice.
As with brexit the majority didn't vote for him, so your point is incorrect.
However those that voted for him due to agreeing with his misogynistic, racist and horrific policies are absolutely c###s
As with brexit the majority didn’t vote for him, so your point is incorrect.
My point is perfectly correct. I said "the majority of American voters".
Ok put like that then yes clearly the majority of American voters are exactly that c###s
Is Elon going to get his money’s worth? It seems likely.
That depends if he gets put forward as the Republican's next presidential candidate.
Mrs Slow pointed me toward's an article in yesterday's Guardian in response to Trump's victory. I particularly liked the contribution of Ece Temelkuran.
Musk was born in South Africa, so he can't run for president
Musk isn’t a possible presidential candidate, and that’s why Trump can work with him.
Musk is already richer and has far more influence at home and abroad now that Trump has won… and that’s only a small appetiser for what could come his way after January.
yes clearly the majority of American voters are exactly that c###s
FYI denigrating voters for how they are likely to vote is widely seen as counterproductive and a sure way of alienating voters even further.
Apart from the monumental blunder by Joe Biden of calling Trump supporters garbage, which undoubtedly helped Trump, see also the "basket of deplorables" blunder by Hillary Clinton and Mitt Romney's "47%" gaffe for similar examples.
Despite all that I expect the same mistakes to be made in the UK in 2029. After all simple explanations are so much more attractive than ones which involve rather more complex thinking and perhaps a fair bit of self criticism.
it's perfectly reasonable to lay the blame at the appropriate door. it's not 2016. the american public know what they've voted for. a fraud, an assaulter of women, a convict. all proven in courts of law. i'm afraid what they've done is wrong, and i have no issue in calling it so
it’s not 2016. the american public know what they’ve voted for
And yet in 2024 Trump increased his support right across the voter demographics, young, old, women, Muslims, black, Hispanic, etc. compared to 2016.
Is the reason for this that they have all become more racist than they previously were, or could there possibly be other explanations for this?
You should hear what Trump was calling people supporting Harris…
Go on, tell me what insults Trump leveled at Democrat voters. It is a widely accepted fact that Mitt Romney screwed up with his “47%” comment, I can't see why a similar gaffe wouldn't have cost Trump votes.
Edit:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/sep/18/mitt-romney-47-unsuitable-president
Insulting voters is as counterproductive for Republicans as it is for Democrats
could there possibly be other explanations for this?
of course. the fact remains they're somehow able to look past what that **** demonstrably is, and still vote for him.
Suicide is currently illegal
Not since 1961 in the UK.
And what does that say about the Democrats? That a woman or a black or muslim person, for example, is somehow able to look past what that **** demonstrably is, and vote for him rather than Democrat?
And remember many of these people couldn't bring themselves to vote for Trump in the two previous presidential elections.
So the majority of American voters are ****. Nice.
The majority who voted are. Yes.
Sorry if that upsets people, but there it is.
Given what is known about Trump the 'man' - I stand by that statement. I would stand by it if he had been the Democrat candidate.
Trump's whole schtick is basically:
"I'm an asshole, I admit it. I know there's a bit of asshole in nearly everyone. I'm just here to tell you that it's alright to give in to your baser instincts. Indulge the inner asshole".
To a lesser extent Farage pulls the same trick. And people give in to it. In the UK's case it was in a way that is not reversible in four years either.
FYI denigrating voters for how they are likely to vote is widely seen as counterproductive and a sure way of alienating voters even further.
I don't think anyone here is denigrating voters for how they are likely to vote. Rather, we're denigrating voters for how they voted.
Apart from the monumental blunder by Joe Biden of calling Trump supporters garbage, which undoubtedly helped Trump, see also the “basket of deplorables” blunder by Hillary Clinton and Mitt Romney’s “47%” gaffe for similar examples.
Welcome to US politics, you must be new here.
Election upon election, presidential campaigns have been founded on little more than "see that other guy over there? They're terrible, vote for me instead or they will get in." The one candidate in my living memory who made a big song-and-dance about not playing that game and instead campaigned on their own merits was I think Bob Dole, who suffered the worst defeat in years.
This is how the US has functioned for decades. The last time I was out there, MacDonald's adverts on TV were little more than "yeah, Burger King, they're shit."
I will concede however that you are, of course, bang on the money in that the UK is far from immune here. We haven't learned anything since 2016 and are in no position to be throwing stones across the pond.
To a lesser extent Farage pulls the same trick. And people give in to it. In the UK’s case it was in a way that is not reversible in four years either.
Plenty of people voted for our Prime Minister (BoJo), despite the obvious bollocks he was spouting, despite the philandering, and then backed him despite his literal crimes, misleading parliament, lying to the Queen, illegally Proroguing etc. We are not so different.
Sorry if that upsets people, but there it is.
I am not sure who you think it is upsetting but my point is that it is simplistic nonsense to explain an election result by declaring that the majority of US voters are ****s. I am guessing what the word **** is btw.
I have little doubt that the majority of US voters are perfectly decent people and not ****s at all.
I know that an alternative explanation is too challenging, especially if it involves self criticism, so dismissing voters as racists is the easiest solution.
No doubt the Tory-Reform coalition in 2029 will be explained in exactly the same way....... voters are racist ****s, even though Labour won in 2024. The "all voters are racists" explanation only really works when an election result goes the wrong way.
Trump doesn't pull any punches when going after his political opponents but I've never heard him say anything about the american people themselves, why would he? it's a terrible idea if you want to win votes.
I'm sure those on the fence voters who went with Trump this time will be really keen to vote democrat next time after hearing about what a **** they are for the next few years.
So the majority of American voters are ****. Nice.
The majority who voted are. Yes.
So what have you achieved by expressing this view? What is the point of it? It doesn't express anything worthwhile or useful in any way whatsoever.
That a woman or a black or muslim person, for example, is somehow able to look past what that **** demonstrably is, and vote for him rather than Democrat?
you'd have to ask them. i am sure there are many and various justifications.
So what have you achieved by expressing this view?
My exasperation with the march of far right wing populism in societies where the standard of living is way higher (even for those near the bottom) than in third world countries.
Will that do?
And I'll add that in terms of living standards vs actual productivity the gap makes voting for shit like Trump, Brexit, Johnson, Wilders etc even less justifiable.
We are not so different.
It's the Cult of Personality.
Garage keeps bobbing up to the surface like a turd that just won't flush because he appeals to The Man On The Clapham Omnibus. Man of the people, fag in one hand and a pint of Large in the other. The 'free are tommy' brigade are going mob-handed outside courthouses because he's just "saying what people are thinking." Boris, fwah, whif-whaf, I seem to have forgotten my notes, oh look a squirrel! Well, he's a character, isn't he. And the orange shitgibbon's USP is "make America great again" and because US Patriotism is so very deeply ingrained into Team America **** Yeah's psyche, no-one stops to question what that might actually mean. I thought America was already supposed to be the greatest nation on Earth?
It has nothing to do with politics. Absolutely nothing. It's the reason that I have more chance of growing a second willy than seeing Rees-Mogg as leader of the Tory party - even the c**ts think he's a ****. People don't care about facts, this is what cost us the referendum in 2016 and we still haven't learned anything from it. The professional Pob-impersonator jizzmop famously said "we've had enough of experts" and was resoundly mocked for it by the Left but you know what, he was correct. An appeal to the heart will win over an appeal to the head time after time after time.
Facts don't win elections.
Policies don't win elections.
Charisma wins elections.
It is said that those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. And, oh look.
Charisma wins elections.
That'll explain Labour's landslide victory then.
That’ll explain Labour’s landslide victory then.
Labour only won the last election as the conservartives went too much crazy, it wasn't an election won on merit.
Hell, even I voted labour just to make sure the conservatives got kicked out,and I'm starting to regret it as a lib dem...
So, come on, Mr. Know it all...
If you were a US citizen, who would you have voted for?
Woww the return of Trump!
More interesting for me is to see how President-elect Trump is able to or going to dismantle the deep state.
I can see the headline "President Trump vs the Deep State" in the near future.
Labour only won the last election as the conservartives went too much crazy
I think you are closer to the truth than you probably even realise matty. Yes I totally agree, it was more a case of a Tory government losing the general election than a Labour opposition winning it.
I say closer than you probably even realise because you don't seem to have extrapolated that obvious fact to the US Presidential election.
The most striking aspect of the US presidential election for me is that the Biden/Harris administration lost it, not that Trump won it.
And it is particularly striking imo because they lost it against an arsehole who talks mostly complete shite. How badly did American voters want to get rid of the Democrats, which they had elected only 4 years previously, that they were prepared to give Trump a second chance?
There are glaringly obvious similar lessons to be learnt on both sides of the Atlantic.
Edit : To be fair this isn't a new phenomena. It has always been the case, certainly in UK politics, that governments lose general elections rather than oppositions winning them. Voters generally know what they are voting against even if they can't be sure what they are voting for.
My exasperation with the march of far right wing populism in societies where the standard of living is way higher (even for those near the bottom) than in third world countries.
I am struggling to see your argument here. Its not really a campaigning slogan "yeah you are better than the third ****ing world".
The common factor is people are seeing their living standards drop compared to their parents. This has been somewhat masked by the improvement in technology accompanied by manufacturing boom in China otherwise it would have hit a lot harder a lot sooner.
The populists are actually offering to do something about it. Sure they are lying through their ****ing teeth but they claim to feel the peoples pain rather than go "have you compared yourself to the third world?".
The comparison to Labour is an interesting one. Whilst the figures still are being finalised it doesnt look like Trumps vote changed much from 2020 its just the democrats dropped four million.
So not dissimilar to the 2019 election where the tories basically held the same number whilst Labour dropped vs the 2024 where both Labour and the tories dropped but the tories collapsed absolutely.
I'm not close to the truth, it is the truth.
I see you have very eloquently skirted answering a direct question...
..kinda says it all, really.
I see you have very eloquently skirted answering a direct question…
I am not skirting the question eloquently, I am ignoring it. This discussion is about how the American people voted and why, it's not about me and how I would have voted.
My point is that the presidential election result doesn't prove that the majority of American voters are racist ****s, as some on here seem to suggest. Every poll and political pundit appears to agree that the number one issue in this presidential election was the economy.
So there is the primary reason why people (including black and women) voted the way they did. Of course if that was their main concern they might well have made a big mistake, but I am not really in a position to say for sure that they have - the US economy did reasonably well during Trump's first term, until the covid pandemic. I am not endorsing Trumps economic policies btw, I am simply making an observation.
I am not skirting the question eloquently, I am ignoring it.
The very thing you seem to profess against. You seem to be very outspoken on a lot of matters. It seems odd that you become a shrinking violet on this subject.
I'll ask again, who would you have voted for if you were a US citizen?
The very thing you seem to profess against.
Sorry you've lost me. You can ignore as much as you want.
The only thing I am claiming is that the presidential elections don't prove that the majority of American voters are ****s. I am using my imagination to assume what ****s means.
Of course, we should have all known that the American electorate are all super racist and would never vote for a black president.
oh…
You can ignore as much as you want.
I'm not ignoring.. quite the opposite...
I'm just trying to understand your point of view, but it's very difficult if you have, how can I put this nicely? 'a fluid view of reality'?
It's not hard, just answer the question, if you were a US citizen, who would you have voted for?
a fluid view of reality’?
Pointing out the number one issue for American voters was the economy is "a fluid view of reality"’?
You think that agreeing with you that it was in fact "race" would be a better more realistic reality? Have you actually studied the demographics behind the results?
Edit: Maybe read this for a better insight. I warn you though, the author doesn't say who he would have voted for had he been a US citizen.
5 reasons why Donald Trump won & the Democrats lost
That’ll explain Labour’s landslide victory then.
Well, aside from what everyone else has beaten me to saying, it was still a charisma vote when the options were between a ham sandwich and a rich tea biscuit. Starmer is about as charismatic as red paint, but even paint is more interesting than bare wood.
As the story goes, two men happen across a tiger, one starts putting on running shoes, the other says "are you mad, you'll never outrun a tiger" to which the other replies "I don't need to, I just need to outrun you."
The level of bipartisanship from the legacy media in this election was extrodinary, and tied at the hip with the Democratic campaign, The public not only ceased to believe what they were hearing but they began to feel actively insulted by the suggestion that if they didn't 't vote for Harris they were either sexist, racist or both.
Harris, a candidate who couldn't even get beyond the first round in her own Party's primaries, a dollar shop Liz Truss (and that's being generous).
Trump won not only because of Harris's deficiencies but because the Republicans managed to form a new coallition of latino, Black and most significantly, young voters. Together they were enough to get him over the line in the swing states
The Democrats thought that presenting the electorate with a person who self identified as Indian but who now identified as black would shore up the minority vote but it failed spectacularly, profoundly insulting the electorate and they responded accordingly and when Obama spoke, the levee broke, soliciting disgust and an outright hostility from black male voters.
I know people are alarmed at black voters not voting for the party they are supposed to but he way the Democrats behaved in this election cycle has fractured that long standing but paternalistic relationship, perhaps for good (in both senses of the phrase).
The Left in general are probably surprised at the significant youth turnout for Trump as well but the Left hasn't realised yet that the youth aren't the youth anymore. Those young people motivated towards politics by Corbyn Greta, Brexit and Trump 1.0 aren't young anymore, many will now be nudging 30. The next wave of young people will inevitably want to rebel against the previous generation and voting for Trump is the punk thing to do, (We will see the same thing happen in the UK before our next elections)
That and the fact that many young voters feared being conscripted into a foreign conflict if Harris were to have won the election, believing, with some good reason that she is a Neo-Con and would have dragged the US into future wars and in addition to her politics, there is a perceived weakness about her (and she knows it) that many believe would encourage her to act thougher than she actually is on the global stage, which could lead to disastrous consequences for younger people in particular. They have seen what prospects are like for the youth in Ukraine and have probably observed that it kicked off not when Trump was in Office, but when Biden and Harris were in office.
The strongest post Obama candidate the Democrats had was Tulsi Gabbard but they ostracized her and she ended up defecting to the other side. They have only themselves to blame.
Interesting post Inkster but one I don’t agree with in some ways. I don’t disagree with your analysis of how the US electorate voted but it was the perceived handling of the economy and immigration that drew people to vote for Trump. The US has possibly been affected more by the post-Covid inflation than other western countries. It always used to be a “cheap” country to buy food/clothes/cars to run mortgages. It’s not now and that is hurting many people. People blame Biden for that and the cost of living crisis (the US don’t use this term) is a major voting factor. Also immigration and Harris was seen to be at blame for this. Even if it was worse under Trump 1.0.
Also the weird fact that, like Boris, many Americans don’t believe what Trump says, but vote for him anyway. They want change.
When someone directs me to the large scale favelas on the outskirts of US/UK cities, I'll start to understand.
And by 'large scale' I mean enough to explain electoral majorities.
And by 'favelas' I mean shanty towns of self-assembled shacks without running water, legit electricity supplies or sewerage.
I.e. people who can justifiably vote for whoever they want because of a real sense of having nothing to lose.
The US has possibly been affected more by the post-Covid inflation than other western countries.
I think the main driver of US inflation has been the Russo-Ukraine War,. Which when consider that the Biden's Administration strategy is to keep the war simmering without allowing either side to win, through limited arms supply to Ukraine, and Donald Trump's wild claims of ending it immediately, that might also provide a clue as to what was on American voters minds.
Edit: To be fair US inflation is currently only 2.4% so it should not have been a huge election issue although I don't know how aware US voters are of the improved economic situation - do they personally feel it? Based on Trump's "ask yourself am I better off than 4 years go" question, and that voters claim the economy was the most important issue for them, the answer would appear to be no.
I remember thinking back in mid 2022. We either need to equip Ukraine to win or negotiate territorial concessions for a ceasefire. As nearly always we have ended up doing the worst option.
