winston
Free Member
what makes me so proportionally cross is that the fate of the free world, of millions of Ukranians and Gazans especially, but basically tens of millions and millions of ‘non combatants’ in this race comes down to literally a few thousand rednecks in Pennsylvania – thats not even hyperbole – its very likely 20,000 votes that will swing this.Absolutely crazy.
You are not alone in feeling that way mate. I'll be up on election night and hoping for the best. He'll declare a win either way so it could get genuinely nasty even if Harris wins.
We are all slaves to fate and ones man's ego and vengeance at this point. In other countries, their lives literally depend upon the result of this US election. It's desperately sad, poor old Ukraine and Gaza. It shouldn't be this way.
...he’s old, unfit, and very rapidly and obviously going demented. He may not last
The last president that statement applied to is about to see out his 4 years still in post, I wouldn't be shocked at Trump sticking about for his full term if he wins.
I honestly think it's too close to call too currently, between people trying to deliberately skew polls and Trumps flair for media Vs Harris looking a bit awkward at times. it's a tough call lots of people will tell you Trump beat Hillary due to personality as much as anything else, lots of people (rightly or Wrongly) had an issue with 'that Woman' America for all it's progress in some areas still seems to like voting for old white men...
Listening to R4 this morning was interesting, they were talking to some Muslim Dems, former party activists who were so (understandably) upset over the Biden/Harris position on Palestine that they ran the spectrum from abstaining from the presidential vote and refusing to campaign, to one now pledging to vote Trump (admittedly there was a big dose of cognitive dissonance at work there).
Like it or not Harris has been part of the Biden government and therefore any issues voters have with Joe, more than likely carry over to Kamala.
My own worry (outside of a Trump win) is that a narrow loss will get spun as a "stolen" election by Trump and his acolytes, and the crazies will go full Gravy Seal en-masse and 'just' storming the capitol building won't be enough for them this time. The election denial and insurrectionist rhetoric is still there and as potentially more dangerous than four years ago...
...this race comes down to literally a few thousand rednecks in Pennsylvania – thats not even hyperbole – its very likely 20,000 votes that will swing this.
~10,000 would apparently have done last time:
That de Santis geezer was supposed to be Trump v2. Whilst I don’t doubt there’s someone out there, this isn’t a drug turf war
JD Vance as VP would likely become president as that's basically the point of a VP.
Just as nasty as Trump but younger, more intelligent and more articulate.
Crist, this is just sad. Elderly people bankrupting themselves making political donations.
https://twitter.com/KeneAkers/status/1848923842007433501
Not just the Labour Party but the far-left Labour Party:
Now that's blatantly fake news, right there
MoreCashThanDashFull Member
Not just the Labour Party but the far-left Labour Party:
Now that’s blatantly fake news, right there
Theres a reason Trump is framing it as a far left plot, even though Harris is to the right of Thatcher , in america, among the crucial independent vote shes seen as hyper left wing!
https://twitter.com/ForecasterEnten/status/1849078676614222255
I think Trump will win.
I think Musk possibly swings it for him.
Most people know Trump is an idiot by now, but Musk builds self driving cars, plants chips into people's brains, and creates Thunderbirds rockets, and he's all in for Trump, so Trump must be OK?
With more reach than potentially any other human on the planet, and a large following of younger people, I don't think his influence can be overstated. Crazy times we're living in.
Maybe Taylor Swift can take him down.
Rumours that those apprentice Nword tapes might be coming out
Of course we've been here before
Not just the Labour Party but the far-left Labour Party
I’m going to direct Republican voters to the Keir Starmer thread on here where his hardline Marxist fundamentalism is all anyone ever mentions 😀
butcher
Full MemberI think Musk possibly swings it for him.
I think Musk's interventions, demented as they are, are a really big deal, mostly because they're one of the few things the Trump campaign's got that isn't a direct appeal to his own followers. Without a doubt there's individuals who're politically "in the middle" but who're fully in the cult of musk, it's not a neat musk/trump cultist overlap. Like, this is a small bubble of course but there's a lot of the really vocal spacex and tesla fanboys who are politically just completely in the democrat camp on essentially every issue but who think Musk can do no wrong.
Whether these people are among the few that actually matter, is the question.
But **** me, how depressing to be still 50/50. Especially now that Trump's doing essentially nothing- he's pulling out of events, he's cancelling interviews, he's just doing an occasional stunt or rightwing handjob interview and it doesn't seem to even register. So much of the US press is about normalising trump but this feels different, weeks out from an election seeing a candidate just completely run out of steam should be an absolute disaster and it's just.... nothing at all. It's yet another thing that would absolutely ruin any other candidate and just doesn't matter.
Most people know Trump is an idiot by now, but Musk builds self driving cars, plants chips into people’s brains, and creates Thunderbirds rockets, and he’s all in for Trump, so Trump must be OK?
Trump is going to win because, like Johnson and Farage with Brexit, he’s convinced the turkeys to not just vote for Christmas, but WE DEMAND CHRISTMAS NOW!
Anyone with anything between their ears might be perhaps asking why all the corporate billionaires are backing their ‘man of the people’?
MoreCashThanDash
Full Member
Documentary about interference in 2020 just started on BBC2
Yeah, watching it, it's a little bit chilling. Going to be a rocky 4 years (and longer...) if he wins this.
The only slight glimmer of hope if its tight and the obvious falsehoods start coming out of whatever Orange orifice is that currently Biden is in control of the state and you'd like to think the National Guard etc. would be called into duty quicker than on his watch last time.
I wonder how many of Trumps most vocal critics or political or judicial enemies will happen to be on vacation in Canada or Mexico or elsewhere out of the country over the few days post-election.
He's gonna have a lot of retribution to dish out, if he wins...
A screenshot articles in US politics site today. I don't like the direction this is headed..
Bin dun!
But **** me, how depressing to be still 50/50.
It's actually hard to say if it is or not. In the previous two elections a flaw in poling meant Trump's support was under estimated. The difficulty is the kind of people who vote for trump are naturally suspicious of authority, conspiracy minded, antisocial and uncooperative and tend not to be findable by pollsters, or don't participate if they are, or aren't necessarily truthful when they do.
Its also interesting that some of the republicans that have backed Harris, such as Liz Cheney are appealing to disaffected GOP voters to vote Harris but not tell anyone
“I would just remind people, if you’re at all concerned, you can vote your conscience and not ever have to say a word to anybody,” Cheney said, as she sat side-by-side with Harris. “There will be millions of Republicans who do that on November 5.”
So in undertaking polling companies are having to work out how to skew their results to compensate for this behaviour - but until theres an election result to reference against theres not really a way to know if these changes now mean the polls are more accurate or if they've inadvertently overstated Trumps appeal
I saw the groping allegations this morning and thought.......that'll do the absolutely nothing. Worse - it'll probably solidify his supporters against the 'deep state' hell bent to bring him down.
I think we're at the point were a typical Trump voter would say "Sure, he raped my Daughter - that's Donny for ya! She must be a good looking girl. Kind of a compliment really. But he's going to make me wealthy, protect me from the frauds and MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN (AGAIN) so he's got my vote 110%"
I have been told that Trump groped a minor at one of his donor dinners — and that there’s video.
He's boasted about groping women and was an acquaintance of Epstein. That ship sailed a long time ago.
I'm really worried about the result of this. It will depend on who doesn't come out to vote rather than who does.
That ship sailed a long time ago.
For everyone and everything.
We fell for the same thing with Johnson - lay or all your flaws, lies, criminality for everyone to see at the outset and theres no bubble to burst. People are generally distrustful of politicians - by being someone you know everything about because their flaws are so great they end up in courtrooms and headlines Trump is somehow more 'genuine' that someone you know nothing about becuase their private life is necessarily private
In the age of celebrity and reality what Trump offers is the same thing that Katie Price offers - unfiltered insight into every craven, foolish, grubby, stupid little detail of your life. Trump has turned the Whitehouse into the Big Brother house and his rallies are the Diary Room
In the age of celebrity and reality what Trump offers is the same thing that Katie Price offers – unfiltered insight into every craven, foolish, grubby, stupid little detail of your life. Trump has turned the Whitehouse into the Big Brother house and his rallies are the Diary Room
Someone at the Guardian is going to use that...
In the previous two elections a flaw in poling meant Trump’s support was under estimated.
The "Shy Trump Voter" effect? I really don't think anyone is shy about their support for him anymore, it could be just as likely that the polls are overestimating support for Trump if they still add that in.
This is a bit like the brexit thread. Lots of 'how can they be so stupid' sneering and snobbery. It's really not hard to understand why Americans are probably going to vote for Trump, and it's not because they're all mysoginists and racists. When the political system stops working for normal working people, those people will grasp whatever option exists to react against it, and right now in the US that is Donald Trump.
The politicians 'on the left' need to be taking a long hard look at themselves and asking why a repellent racist sex pest fraudster is preferable to any of the 'respectable' candidates they can put forward.
Trump has no interest in normal working people, and will screw them over just like he did in his first presidency, so to vote for the same thing again is…… what would you call that?
Trump has no interest in normal working people
Of course he doesn't. But he is currently the only alternative to a system which has utterly screwed working people in favour of the rich, and he's claiming to be on their side. They know what they will get with the status quo, so they'll vote for anything that isn't that even if they probably know that Trump won't help them either. And why should the voters take it seriously? For decades they have voted for so-called 'serious' politicians who have broken every promise and every campaign message that things would be better with them in power. If people are not presented with a serious alternative, they'll vote for an unserious one instead.
it could be just as likely that the polls are overestimating support for Trump if they still add that in.
Its not just the polls, the bookies have Trump ahead these days too
The “Shy Trump Voter” effect? I really don’t think anyone is shy about their support for him anymore, it could be just as likely that the polls are overestimating support for Trump if they still add that in.
tories are shy. Trump voters might have the hats, flags and bumper stickers but it doesn’t mean they’re cooperative
They know what they will get with the status quo, so they’ll vote for anything that isn’t that even if they probably know that Trump won’t help them either
Absolutely this - it got us Brexit as well. And as the Britain First leader said in the Hope not Hate documentary, they want things to keep going downhill for the next 10 years to attract the support of all those disaffected voters.
Lessons of history, as ever.
The politicians ‘on the left’ need to be taking a long hard look at themselves and asking why a repellent racist sex pest fraudster is preferable to any of the ‘respectable’ candidates they can put forward
Category error. The left cannot (or in this case Democrats) provide an answer to the "solutions" that the right want to talk about amongst themselves instead of why their own polices over the last decades have made everybody less well off. It's precisely why the right talk about immigration (for instance) in the way that they do. Trump needs immigrants to water his golf courses, wash the dishes and cook the food, he knows this, the Republican party know this, they're not daft, and they know that the people becoming angry about "foreigners taking our jobs" do not want to do those jobs either. The Democrats cannot provide an alternative to the Republicans telling themselves fantasies to remain relevant and in power.
What the Democrats do here is totally irrelevant (other than to play the pantomime villain) this is the right having a conversation with itself. It's only listening to itself
Trump has no interest in normal working people
And he doesn't even need to pretend that he does. Evangelical Christians are among Trump's biggest supporters, approx 80% supported him when he was previously elected. And yet he doesn't pretend to share their religious views, they are totally aware how godless Trump is.
He pitches himself as the best candidate for Evangelical Christians, even if they are aware that he is a serial sinner, he urges them to vote for him because he claims that the alternative is worse than him.
Trump is an avowed sinner – so why did American evangelicals vote for him?
He doesn't pretend to like Jews either, but he expects them to wholeheartedly support him.
Jewish leaders criticized Trump for telling Jewish audience they have 'no choice' but to vote for him instead of Elizabeth Warren's wealth tax
https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/09/politics/donald-trump-accused-of-anti-semitic-language/index.html
"A lot of you are in the real estate business because I know you very well. You're brutal killers, not nice people at all. But you have to vote for me, you have no choice," he said.
The politicians ‘on the left’ need to be taking a long hard look at themselves and asking why a repellent racist sex pest fraudster is preferable to any of the ‘respectable’ candidates they can put forward.
And what is the answer to such a question?
“A lot of you are in the real estate business because I know you very well. You’re brutal killers, not nice people at all. But you have to vote for me, you have no choice,” he said
LOL! Trump really knows how to wind people up. Straight to the point. Vote or else ... LOL!
^^ Could also be a deep state conspiracy to stop him fueling up on the campaign trail.
Harris, you monster!
The Return of the Trump. I can see the headline next month but this election will be a close one.
It might be decided by a few thousand votes, but it's looking eerily like a landslide for Trump in the Electoral Collage. So many voters seem more interested in punishing the Democrats for inflation problems (world wide) and Gaza (Israel) that they're actively opening the door to 4 years of destruction from Trump. They're quite literally voting on the past not the potential future. It's barmy.
