Killing people by depriving them of the finances to secure their family's, their health, their homes and their futures is a far more potent killer than guns in western society, I wish the right wingers would treat it as such instead of the crocodile tears they shed when one of their hate mongers suffer.
Charlie Kirk was an absolute piece of shit. A truly vile racist, misogynist and homophobic bigot who made $millions sewing division and hatred. An American Yaxley Lennon or Britain First. That said he absolutely 100% did not deserve to die by a bullet in a public debate.All political assassinations are wrong.
The thing that is so disturbing is the attempt to gain or profit from this killing. Trump has announced flags at half-mast and is making all manner of authoritarian threats. UK far-right shit like Boris Johnson are already jumping on the bandwagon I assume following the scent of a big paycheque. Farage and others will similarly be in the stampede towards the cash register.
Contrast and compare with the far-right narrative when a MAGA terrorist murdered two Minnesota law makers and their dog. Actual sitting politicians, not some puffed-up internet gobshite reaction-baiter. No flags at half mast directive from the Pedo King there. No authoritarian clamp-downs. Just the usual “thoughts & prayers”.
So yeah....thoughts n' prayers indeed.
I've copied this onto a facebook post by a someone I thought I knew well. Thank you. Probably be blocked but it had to be said.
murdering them in the street does absolutely nothing to fix anything and celebrating it just makes things worse.
France, 1789, disagrees.
yes a good post by somafunk
and obviously with all the magas upset about Trump's Epstein cover up and denials, he will be more than happy to use this as a distraction
I didn't think there was anyone revelling in his death, more people showing the standard US level of concern given for school shootings
As a mark of respect we should lower all the flags that are halfway up a lamppost.
billabong987
Posts: 236
Full Member
Report
To see people revelling in the death of a man whose only crime was saying things you don't like is pretty disgusting. Personally I would have liked the comments from last night to be left up for all to see. It's very illuminating to see the mask of peace and tolerance slip.
He's back!
I was, in fact, unable to 'revel' in his death because, thankfully, I hadn't got the faintest idea who he was.
When I did a few minutes of reading up, I just kind of shrugged and went to bed. Putting aside all the other stuff, it just seemed to me that a pro-NRA gun-horny muppet ended up getting on the wrong end of the very thing he claimed as a fundamental freedom. The only appropriate reaction to this kind of idiocy becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy, I feel, is a shrug. I can't muster anything else.
🤷♂️
and obviously with all the magas upset about Trump's Epstein cover up and denials, he will be more than happy to use this as a distraction
On a related note, Kirk did say he was done with the Epstein files recently (2min40s):
Could be they might need to widen the list of suspects beyond the 'radical left'.
Why is this shit all over the BBC front page? I literally have no idea who this bloke is/was. Wasn't there another school shooting the other week? That didn't get the attention this crap has, and this is just one bloke that no one knows!!
Wasn't there another school shooting the other week?
There have been 47 this year, as of yesterday. More than one a week
this is just one bloke that no one knows!!
I don't like the guy and what he stood for, but he was a major political player in MAGA land. It's the biggest news story of the day.
I'd hadn't noticed Trump getting shot at reducing support for either him or the NRA, on the contrary it was one of the building blocks of his election win. Careful who you shoot at, it might have a result opposite to the one you seek, people love a martyr.
Why is this shit all over the BBC front page? I literally have no idea who this bloke is/was
Amazingly enough, the BBC news output isn't tailored to your specific needs or interests
Didn't know who he was until yesterday but his views were absolutely abhorrent. He was a horrible racist, misogynistic areshole of the first order who stood for pretty much everything I am against
Whilst I don't condone anyone getting killed, in the uk he'd probably be in jail for hate crimes.
the irony of his comments on gun control were certainly not lost on me however
Americans doing a surprised face as if this was the opening salvo in a rise in political violence have clearly not been paying attention to history, or find it convenient to ignore it. The US has armed its population and has always been teetering on the edge of violence - in its relatively short history, four presidents and numerous other leading political figures have been gunned down.
Kirk was a deeply unpleasant and dangerous human, is no great loss, and I'm sure will be replaced swiftly by some other sociopathic agitator, as there seem to be plenty hanging around the Republican Party. It's a shame for his wife and child, as it is for any family which loses someone to America's epidemic of gun violence.
The irony of his final words being an argument downplaying the problem of mass shootings is right up there with 'They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance...'.
He was a horrible racist, misogynistic areshole of the first order who stood for pretty much everything I am against
And yet he's being held up as a modern day inspirational political saviour in the US and in the media, with our current and ex-prime minister banging on about what a terrible tragedy it all is. Honestly we're totally screwed as a society if we're holding people like Kirk up as someone to admire because they're brave/brazen enough to speak their minds no matter how divisive or hateful it is. He spent his entire adult life stoking hatred and division, inciting violence against minorities and generally acting like a kingsize dick and now everyone's upset because karma caught up with him?
A young attendee of the event was on the Today programme this morning tying himself in knots. He suggested that the shooting was evidence of the need to carry firearms for defence, then pointing out that Utah is a open carry state and you can carry firearms on that campus, then realising that this didn't prevent the shooting, then repeat.
I had never heard of Charlie Kirk but I was disturbed that each of my three teenage kids had, despite not having much interest in US politics. They knew about him, his wife and their kids. He seems to have earned a platform with them.
I'll not be shedding a tear.
Can you point out the comments where people are revelling in the death?
It was made clear up there ^^^
This thread was closed for a while. Reason for that were the comments (now deleted) that broke the rules of the forum. They were pretty distasteful and we couldn't let them stay.
Can you point out the comments where people are revelling in the death?
It was made clear up there ^^^
This thread was closed for a while. Reason for that were the comments (now deleted) that broke the rules of the forum. They were pretty distasteful and we couldn't let them stay.
I viewed all those threads last night and no one “revelled” in his death
Our Nige was on LBC today as he's a good friend of Kirk and as one STW's dreaded centerists i even found the bro tales of the right a little yucky. The biggest difference is the US use this third party actor (God) to condone their beliefs and the UK not so much.
I had never heard of Charlie Kirk but I was disturbed that each of my three teenage kids had, despite not having much interest in US politics. They knew about him, his wife and their kids. He seems to have earned a platform with them.
This. I'd never heard of him either but my kids (18 and 20yrs old) knew everything about him. They're not fans of him, quite the opposite in fact and they're not quite as shy as many on here about saying what they think of his murder (they'd be banned if they said it on here), but it's still a shock that they knew about him and I didn't. I guess that's tiktok for you, I'm just glad they didn't fall for his poison.
Why is this shit all over the BBC front page? I literally have no idea who this bloke is/was
Regardless of who he was, some of the rhetoric following these events I find genuinely quite frightening. There seems to be a general feeling that it has potential to be a significant turning point in US politics, and not in a good way. The idea of civil war is beginning to feel real.
There seems to be a general feeling that it has potential to be a significant turning point in US politics
Think we passed that turning point when Trump was re-elected. This is just another inevitable result of that catastrophic event. Joe Biden and the democrats have a lot to answer for. There will be many more events like this one and who knows where it will lead? Mabye it needs to happen before people come to their senses but it's going to be extremely chaotic and messy?
Time to start hoarding bottled water and tinned food? (it won't be constrained to the US)
And yet he's being held up as a modern day inspirational political saviour in the US and in the media
Only by his supporters, most commentary I've seen tends to be of the "He was awful shit, but no one deserves to be shot" variety
with our current and ex-prime minister banging on about what a terrible tragedy it all is.
Men in political roles (who've more than likely been the target of threats themselves) express concern that other politicians are being murdered. It's hardly a man bites dog story.
I had never heard of Charlie Kirk but I was disturbed that each of my three teenage kids had, despite not having much interest in US politics. They knew about him, his wife and their kids. He seems to have earned a platform with them.
Both my 17 year old and 19 year old wandered in to where we were sitting last night to tell us. Both of us had no idea who he was (and I thought I was reasonably well informed about such things) and they were amazed at how old and out of date we were.
Luckily they both thought he was an unpleasant **** and thought all his stuff they'd seen was absolute bullshit.
To see people revelling in the death of a man whose only crime was saying things you don't like is pretty disgusting. Personally I would have liked the comments from last night to be left up for all to see. It's very illuminating to see the mask of peace and tolerance slip.
Can you point out the comments where people are revelling in the death?
I think you'll find those were the ones the mods deleted. Do keep up.
Men in political roles (who've more than likely been the target of threats themselves) express concern that other politicians are being murdered. It's hardly a man bites dog story.
You read the full quote from Johnson yes?
Charlie Kirk has been killed not for espousing extremist views - because he didn’t. He has been killed for saying things that used to be simple common sense. He has been killed because he had the courage to stand up publicly for reasonable opinions held by millions and millions of ordinary people both in the US and Britain. The world has a shining new martyr to free speech.
I'm sorry Alexander - his views were extreme & we don't know the motive as yet - admittedly being an abhorrent human means a lot of people might want them dead. But it might be something else.
I had seen him "debating" with an Oxford student who tore him a new one so he was on my radar as a MAGA loon but I did not realise quite how high profile he was with younger people.
I think the MAGA architects like Stephen Miller will feel like this is a great opportunity to create a martyr in the same way that Goebbels did when Horst Wessel - nasty SA thug - was killed in 1930.
In fact I don't think it is too implausible to think that this could have been a MAGA plot to remove a potential rival - he was far more popular than Vance - justify further draconian measures against immigrants, Democrats etc. and create a bogeyman if the shooter is not found. It also distracts from the Epstein Files which was still a big issue against Trump.
I think you'll find those were the ones the mods deleted. Do keep up.
Nah, not one post revelled in his death, there was a common “shrug” mentality to the posts, I read them last night before and after the thread was locked as I didn’t get to sleep till after 5am
So I did keep up, thanks for replying though 👍
I think a few of mine were deleted, so I'll just stick to facts rather than opinion..
Charlie Kirk once said,
"I can't stand the word empathy, actually. I think empathy is a made-up, new age term that — it does a lot of damage."
Happy to oblige you, mr, Kirk.
Hi mods...just checking why my response to dazh was removed earlier today? I certainly don't think it broke any rules, and certainly wasn't revelling in the chaps death, which I've made clear was not something I'd ever condone. Nor was it having a go at dazh.
All I said was there are alot of Americans that hold the same awful views as him, but 99 % of folks won't care about the chaps demise..the vast majority because they've never heard of him!
Care to explain?
Thanks
If revelling in a fellow's death is now verboten, God help the mods when the main subject of this thread carks it.
It's a modern maxim I guess: "Live your life in such a way that Mark doesn't have to intervene on your death announcement thread.'
My comment if I remember correctly was 'I wonder how history will remember his limited years of life'
Matthew Collings has a good take on it
There’s no such thing as left assassinations. (Only the left BEING assassinated.). The left doesn’t do shootings and assassinations. It’s a right activity. When the right shoots the right — as it will turn out to be the case regarding the killing we’re all aware of today — it is always for the same random nonsense reasons. The right is mad. Its murderous family members are as surreal and free from reason as the basic model of anyone right, the average right winger living next door, ranting about woke & foreigners etc. The reality behind “politics” is the billionaire minority doing its constant arrangements to make profits and exploit everyone. If there are assassinations it’s got no meaning. It’s not “a disaster for the left” — the definition of “left” is acknowledgement of disaster conditions. The right exploiting an assassination to make war on the left isn’t “disaster” but continuation of normality AS disaster. Normality is billionaires destroying us. The right protects the billionaire class for its own psychotic (non) reasons, for pats on the head from a god-demon it knows — like the left knows— is going to kill us all anyway.
A young attendee of the event was on the Today programme this morning tying himself in knots. He suggested that the shooting was evidence of the need to carry firearms for defence, then pointing out that Utah is a open carry state and you can carry firearms on that campus, then realising that this didn't prevent the shooting, then repeat.
Isn’t the default answer to all these incidents: more guns?
What I find most disturbing about this is that has exposed the level of crossover with the MAGA godbotherers in the US and evangelicals over here.
When this happened last night, someone who I know who I thought had more sense and is (or so I thought) a sane, rational, educated, middle-aged, middle class Englishperson, posted this on Facebook …
They walk amongst us
Again no clue who this chap was but there seems an awful lot of people are sad he's gone ? An ex workmate who now lives in the States said if anyone I know finds this amusing I no longer want you in my life ?
Clearly his supporters, given his very vocal objections to any form of gun control, including his casual dismissal of school shootings as ‘a price worth paying’ for the right to bear arms, don’t really understand the concept of schadenfreude
This from the US Deputy Secretary of State on X. Sounds a bit Secret Police State to me.
The thing I don't get is how so many seem to put these people and ideas at the very core of who they are, when things then go wrong for whatever reason they take it as a mortal insult.
It has to be some sort of disorder
They have no idea who did this, yet Trump has immediately blamed ‘the radical left’ and everyone else seems to be pointing the finger in the same direction.
Haven't we been here before?
I wonder if, as with the Oklahoma bombing and various other terrorist outrages in the US, it turns out to be a home-grown, fellow right-wing nutjob who’s actually responsible?
I wouldn’t bet against it
This from the US Deputy Secretary of State on X. Sounds a bit Secret Police State to me.
This is already happening, some Palantir product has been scraping socials and other channels, allowing border guards to turn away people who've been critical of Trump, and ICE to deport people who've met some internal definitional of antisemetic. Sounds like they'll add saying unkind things about Charlie Kirk to the list of digial faux pax.
Remember also that a lot of posts on both sides are fake and designed to provoke reactions. Not everything is real
Can you only read so many words at a time? There was some more to my post....
There really wasn’t, other than reinforcing that you know little to nothing about US politics.
charlie Kirk was huge
pubic figure, are they make mini dolls out of pubic hair 😬
To see people revelling in the death of a man whose only crime was saying things you don't like is pretty disgusting. Personally I would have liked the comments from last night to be left up for all to see. It's very illuminating to see the mask of peace and tolerance slip.
He said gay people should be stoned to death and innocent gun deaths were an acceptable outcome of upholding second amendment rights along with a lot of other things that would be illegal here. I didn't wish him dead but I have absolutely no sympathy now he's been murdered by someone with a high powered rifle.
At least this scum bag wasn’t notorious enough (at least on here) to get his own thread and he’d have had to be content to share it with the grifter in chief
Since Kirk is such an important national figure, I would imagine that Donny will want to send the military to quell the lawlessness in Utah. Maybe...
charlie Kirk was huge
He might have fared better being a bit smaller...
This from the US Deputy Secretary of State on X. Sounds a bit Secret Police State to me.
Kirk must be turning in his grave since he was such a free speech defender*.
*admittedly in the "free speech for me and not for you" group. Another charming thing Turning point USA did was have their "Professor watch" to list all the academics whose speech they didnt like. Oddly enough quite a few of those academics got abuse and harrassment.
Since Kirk is such an important national figure, I would imagine that Donny will want to send the military to quell the lawlessness in Utah. Maybe...
He's already decided it was a Left conspiracy and they all need sorting out, and a Fox news anchor is talking of "avenging" Kirk. However loathsome he and his views were, this is why his death is so important.
Also seen a few "conspiracy" comments. I felt guilty for responding with "You were only supposed to blow his bloody ear off".
I had never heard of Charlie Kirk but I was disturbed that each of my three teenage kids had, despite not having much interest in US politics. They knew about him, his wife and their kids. He seems to have earned a platform with them.
This post sent chills down my spine.
I like to think I'm a globally politically aware being as are many here. I'd never heard of him. So I asked my 20 year old Tik-tok / X addicted daughter.....oh yes... she knew who he was. Where he had 'debated' Especially the Oxford and Cambridge debates. What was hugely interesting was that she didn't know I didn't know who he was. She knows I'm into politics/current events etc so she just assumed I knew about this guy. We had an amazing discussion. I learnt she was even more clued up than I thought she was (and I thought she was pretty clued up) and we all agreed that this guy had been targeting the younger generation specifically and that there were a lot more like him where he came from. The other interesting thing I learnt was that there are far more radical lefty youngsters out there than I think (my daughter is somewhere to the left of Corbyn) but they are simply not engaging with mainstream political parties because its a waste of time but that they really like Polanski.......watch that space I reckon.
^ hope.
Kirk was a t (Berkshire) if you ask me.
I don't get this idea that we shouldn't be happy someone is dead. There are loads of ** in this world. I've not got enough tears to spare
Pretty sure I heard one of the students at the rally being quoted as saying they were only there because they were being given exam credits (or something) for attending…
My thirteen year old has just informed me he’s seen the actual shooting on TikTok at school. Says everyone has seen it.
Kirk was part of the current awful state of discourse in the US
If anyone has seen his so called debates with Oxbridge people you'll realise what a horrible charlatan he was as his arse is handed to him He dropped out of uni to develop his brand.
I'm with @alpin, if he's an awful prick when alive then dying doesn't fix that. Screw him and the millions of idiots he engages (oops monetises)
My thirteen year old has just informed me he’s seen the actual shooting on TikTok at school. Says everyone has seen it.
The video is apparently everywhere if you look for it, which I haven't. I gather he was hit in the neck, which makes me think the shooter was "lucky", as I assume that wasn’t where they were aiming.
Kirk was certainly well known among the under 30s, that was the group he was targeting so he got that right. Daughter is 18 and knew all about him. She is not distraught at his passing. She has no time for misogynistic arseholes. A few Tait followers at her secondary school found that out the hard way. (Proud dad moments)
gather he was hit in the neck, which makes me think the shooter was "lucky", as I assume that wasn’t where they were aiming
Personally I think a shooting in the groin or up the arse is going to be worse. Far more prolonged death and if you don't die you're going to be pooing in a bag hidden under your t-shirt for the rest of your life.
Kirk was certainly well known among the under 30s, that was the group he was targeting so he got that right. Daughter is 18 and knew all about him. She is not distraught at his passing. She has no time for misogynistic arseholes. A few Tait followers at her secondary school found that out the hard way. (Proud dad moments)
My daughter reckoned they have learned a lot since Tate. Tate never showed up on her feed because she was female and educated. Even her male friends didn't get much exposure as they weren't into sport, cars or gaming. Kirk changed that as he specifically targeted college kids in the US and went for campus 'debating' which drew in the university cohort.
I’m surprised there’s folk on here with an interest in politics (per their posting history) who express not knowing who Kirk was and what his grift represented especially as he was rather vocal and outspoken during Trump’s election campaign, he’s been everywhere in my follows on Twitter/Bluesky since trumps first election - being referenced by others as to his very outrageous and inflammatory views along with clips of other, equally as vile individuals in the evangelical right wing grifting factory that appears to churn them out on a whim.
I picked up my mates 17yr old kid earlier and we discussed the killing of Charlie on the drive home, he was laughing about it and said (I’m sorta paraphrasing) “the * *ing deserved it, you can’t say shite like that without consequences, * him, if I met someone saying that sorta shit I’d *ing knock him around”
Guess he’s not in “team Charlie” but I knew that anyway as I’m kind’of his godfather as his dad died 7 years ago and asked me to watch out for him
There’s many others that are far worse than Charlie out there, the Civil War film may prove to very prescient.
I viewed all those threads last night and no one “revelled” in his death
that’s fine, you keep your view. You asked , I answered. Happy Christmas.
I gather he was hit in the neck, which makes me think the shooter was "lucky", as I assume that wasn’t where they were aiming.
Eh? Lucky? Wasn’t aiming for the neck, which is a main artery? What did you think he was aiming for? His left ankle?
It was a headshot with a single bullet from what they reckon was from a rooftop 150 metres away. There’s no luck involved in that. That’s exactly what he’ll have planned to do. It’s pretty much the perfect shot.
What that suggests it’s that this is someone who knew exactly what he was doing and was bloody good at it. And then there’s the small matter that he was in there, through all the security, then out of there before anyone could get to him and they’ve no clue as to who or where he is, suggesting he’s long gone.
Thats why this ‘Radical Left’ thing just doesn’t add up. That says ex-military sniper all day. A professional who had planned this and then executed it pretty much perfectly.
If you’re asking who’s capable of that then I’m not going to think it’s some white-dreadlocked tree hugger
Surely it’s more likely that it’s some far right nutjob who’s beef is that he didn’t think Charlie was far right enough
I viewed all those threads last night and no one “revelled” in his death
that’s fine, you keep your view. You asked , I answered. Happy Christmas.
You forgot the “Ho…..Ho…..Ho……..Merry Christmas” 🎅
My concern is that Trump will push this as far as he can, and hope it creates the emergency he needs to cancel the mid terms and take full control.
That says ex-military sniper all day
Mate.
That shot is also well within a hunters skillset.
As for sniper, we train regular bods with rifles to be accurate out to 300m so not everything longer than 100m requires sniper training. The marksmanship principles transfer to every weapon type.
Shooter was in an elevated position with a clear line of sight to a target that was fixed in position with minimal risk of dynamic movement, next to no wind.
I could train most of you to take that shot and succeed. And as this the USA with a plethora of long gun courses, tactical training courses, etc etc, this could have been anyone off the street with motivation and means.
As for luck, there's always an element of luck involved, once a shot is released there are many factors that can effect the point of impact, you can mitigate for most but not all.
You get my point though. Someone taking that shot is more likely to be:
1. Someone who is an expert in cooking tofu, signing online petitions and making placards from their loft apartment
2. an ex marine who has spent his time since getting back from Afghanistan hunting, while living in a hut in the woods in Montana.
This ‘radical left’ stuff is bollocks. My money is on a Timothy McVae type character who thinks Charlie is too soft on immigrants or some other bullshit
That shot is also well within a hunters skillset.
And Utah isnt short of them. A casual google suggests about 150,000 people applied for a deer hunting licence in Utah a couple of years back. Not short of hills/mountains requiring them to practice some elevated shooting either.
So leaving aside the mindset requirement going to be plenty of people regularly shooting a rifle at that sort of range who havent been near the military.
That said apparently his top is apparently from a veterans charity so might be former military.
That said apparently his top is apparently from a veterans charity so might be former military.
It wouldn't surprise me, the MAGA clan have been taking a big shit on the constitution, oath, how the military is used and veterans for a while.
'To every action, there is always opposed an equal reaction'.
The issue here is the convergence point moved beyond words to metal and tissue, so I imagine the reaction will be sustained and further deepen the rift in that country.
an ex marine who has spent his time since getting back from Afghanistan hunting, while living in a hut in the woods in Montana.
Don't ever let one hear you call them that. 😉
With little to no disguise, I'll be amazed if the Kirk suspect in that photo released around 1800bst isn't dead or in custody by 1800bst on Friday.
The lack of disguise, someone slim; clean shaven with short dark hair makes me currently think this isn't anything close to a pro hit... If he is the shooter.
America is nuts, isn’t it?
We’re speculating on what type of person it might be, but imagine if every unhinged headcase you’ve encountered in your life was able to walk into Tesco and buy an assault rifle with enough ammunition to invade a country
A state of affairs that Charlie here was prepared to die for
Funny old world, eh?
2. an ex marine who has spent his time since getting back from Afghanistan hunting, while living in a hut in the woods in Montana.
Rambo?
There were two men shot in Clapham on Monday.
One died.
Yeah we're not America in this regard but I tend to find we've definitely normalised our own violence to the point it doesn't show up.
I remember on a MTB trip to Wyoming - talking to a guy from Texas who was asking me about Corbyn. Clearly didn't understand socialism but we chatted and he signed off by saying - We only believe in two things - Jesus and Guns.
I also saw one guy out with his family in Moab (which has open carry) with a gun in his holster whilst having a burger in Milt's stop and eat.
I sat next to him not even really registering it!
Utah's gun laws have been even more relaxed recently.
No idea what happened there.
Do we think these "politicians" wear Kevlar and ceramic plate armour on stage?
Is that why someone might go for a head shot at 150 metres rather than centre mass?
Question jumped into my mind reading the dead person was hit in the neck and remembering the Tangerine Tantrum had his ear nicked.
Pretty sure someone suggested the bullet ricocheted off his body armour. Doesn’t look like there’s anything under his t shirt from the pics though to my untrained eye.
While we're speculating, if you you were wanting to blend in, you wouldn't be wearing a Greenpeace t-shirt would you?