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Can't be a coincidence this is happening as the memory of the 2nd World War disappears from living memory.
It was only a few years ago my grandad passed away at 100 years old. He'd hate to see whats going on now. It was bad enough with Brexit. He used to say he wasn't fighting the Germans he was fighting fascism.
‘They’re all the same’
Close enough?
Sounds like you’re part of the problem tbh.
Nope. It is just that, if you go around targeting civilians with modern munitions, killing tens of thousands of them, you haven't got much of a moral high ground to complain from when people start lumping you together in some way.
I personally don't/won't do it. But I'm not very inclined to be that arsed when someone else does. Maybe the IDF should have thought about that, if they are that bothered.
obvious troll is obvious.
I use to think like you too, but I now know they're just idiots instead.
Nope. It is just that, if you go around targeting civilians with modern munitions, killing tens of thousands of them, you haven’t got much of a moral high ground to complain from when people start lumping you together in some way.
I personally don’t/won’t do it. But I’m not very inclined to be that arsed when someone else does. Maybe the IDF should have thought about that, if they are that bothered.
I think you've got this backwards.
What you're saying would make sense if you were comparing the IDF to someone else (eg, Nazi Germany...) but you are saying it's Jews doing it, which is effectively saying all Jews are complicit because some are doing bad things.
It's a bit like saying "look that cyclist jumped a red light, let's ban all cyclists" instead of saying "look that cyclist jumped a red light, let's ban all cyclists who jump red lights". I have not lost any moral high ground when arguing with drivers who go through lights, just because I'm a cyclist and most cyclists go through red lights.
But hey I'm a Jew so maybe I'm biased. Not shooting anyone FWIW, or even remotely supporting those who do.
And yes I'm putting this here instead of the Gaza thread 😉 It's been done to death there ages ago, but it seems some people missed it. Hope this doesn't derail the thread, but I strongly disagree that it's ok to compare in this way.
So I'm assuming that Trump and Musks masterplan is to stir up enough shit to make it impossible to hold a democratic election in 4 years, emergency powers etc etc....
I do agree with only two genders and did smile
I see a lot of people that say this - there are only two genders. There is a fair bit of scientific research on people who fall between that binary Male/Female measure (often referred to as intersex). Most research finds this is as common as being red-haired (1.7% of people have some form of intersex condition, 1-2% of the population are red haired).
Whatever your views on people choosing to change gender, the medical facts that there are many many people who are not entirely male or entirely female cannot be ignored.
And having had several (cis female, straight) friends challenged in the UK over why they are using the female toilets, because they look like boys (!) this fixation on dictating how people choose to live is definitely not a good thing
From Norwegian newspaper VG
.
You’re conflating sex with gender. There are, largely, two sexes (male and female) and a small number of people who are intersex.
Gender is just a social construct dictating how people of the two sexes should dress and behave.
You can’t escape your biology but you can try to identify as you want. Whether other people accept this is what is causing all the recent arguments.
On the climate agreement and in particular his obsession with drilling gas and oil.
Will it actually increase US drilling? As surely the international price will drop significantly unless OPEC vote to sabotage themselves.
I can only assume he intends on putting tariffs on oil and gas imports otherwise how would it be profitable to drill more in the US?
Suggestion on SoMe that the reason he's anti-wind is that there's a wind farm near one of his Scottish golf courses.
He's vindictive enough that this can't be discounted. What I'm not clear about here is how much power the 50 states have to go "that's nice, we're going to do our own thing anyway"
"I can only assume he intends on putting tariffs on oil and gas imports otherwise how would it be profitable to drill more in the US?"
All he is doing is making it easier for the market to decide and removing restrictions. For example opening up parts of Alaska. If oil companies think they can produce oil there profitably they will. They only need to have a cost of production less than the market rste to be profitable. Tarrifs not required.
Unlike UK where exploitation on the remaining North Sea reserves is positively discouraged and punitively taxed.
Suggestion on SoMe that the reason he’s anti-wind is that there’s a wind farm near one of his Scottish golf courses.
Trump objected to a proposed offshore wind farm on the basis it would spoil the view from his golf course at Menie. The objection was rejected and the wind farm was built.
Trump talks down renewable energy and promotes hydrocarbons because it plays well with many of his supporters (who believe renewables are costing them money and climate change is not an issue) and because the hydrocarbon industry are one of his key backers (he allegedly offered industry executives a straightforward quid pro quo last year; give him $1 billion in campaign donations and he would remove barriers to hydrocarbon extraction and maintain tax breaks Biden was threatening to remove: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/16/donald-trump-big-oil-executives-alleged-deal-explained).
You'd hope the rest of the world will see this and accelerate decarbonisation, as, even if the environmental considerations are put to one side, it reduces dependence on unsavoury regimes across the world, now including the US.
Jesus. America really is on fire.
The big question is, do the rest of the world call them out on it, or do they continue to tip their hats to the empire, even if the empire currently doesnt resmble anything that made it in the first place.
If they want to burn themselves down, or model themselves on "the purge", then we cant stop them. But we dont have to pander to them.
ALSO, the big orange baby seems to be able to sign off on scrapping the 14th ammendment. But weve been told for years that its impossible to ammend ammendments,by those 2nd ammenment lunatics. Does this accidentaly open the gates to some form of sensible gun control?
Trump talks down renewable energy and promotes hydrocarbons because it plays well with many of his supporters (who believe renewables are costing them money and climate change is not an issue) and because the hydrocarbon industry are one of his key backers
Climate scepticism isn't a Trump thing, it's a Republican thing. Americans pretty much split down party lines as to whether or not the 'believe' in manmade climate change. It's because it's basically an existential issue for republicanism. Republicans define themselves as the party of small government, low regulation and individual liberty. The problem climate change creates for republicans is that all the credible responses require a government that governs, a government that regulates and so on. If you accept the reality of climate change you have to also accept that theres no role for republicanism in government.
Its a difficult sell to say 'Vote for us, the party who will do nothing about the threats you face - we'll be cowards on your behalf - when your homes burn, or flood or freeze you'll know its becuase you voted for us to ignore the issue like you asked'
They can't sell themselves as the party who'll do nothing about the problem so they need their voters to tell them there is no problem. What they also have to do is tell themselves that taking that position - sticking their head in the sand - is the brave, clever, patriotic thing to do.
Channel 5 out here doing the Lord's work as always
ALSO, the big orange baby seems to be able to sign off on scrapping the 14th ammendment.
The President can't amend the constitution, that requires large majorities in both houses of Congress and the states. In other words, a big bunch of Democrats would have to vote for it even if all Republicans supported it, which is unlikely. Trump might try to ignore the 14th Amendment, but that's a different thing and the Supreme Court would kill it dead.
On the climate agreement and in particular his obsession with drilling gas and oil.
Will it actually increase US drilling? As surely the international price will drop significantly unless OPEC vote to sabotage themselves.
I can only assume he intends on putting tariffs on oil and gas imports otherwise how would it be profitable to drill more in the US ?
Never let the reality of anything get in the way of the bigliest sound bite he can muster. It's all still me, me, me.
What I'm more surprised at is how many Americans seem to buy such lies, not realising that the reality of his fantasy will be to hurt them.
deleted, didn’t load correctly.
it was just a pic of a chihuahua furiously humping a trump doll
You’d hope the rest of the world will see this and accelerate decarbonisation, as, even if the environmental considerations are put to one side, it reduces dependence on unsavoury regimes across the world, now including the US.
The rest of the developed world has a problem with electorates exhibiting xenophobia, racism, general bigotry and stupidity in varying degrees - enough to be electorally interesting to populists.
So, I doubt it.
The escalating problem for those wedded to fossil fuels and denying climate change is capitalism.
Great, you can enjoy your F-150 with it's Cummins diesel for a few more years as fuel feels more affordable.
Meanwhile your neighbor bought some solar panels and an electric car and isn't paying a penny. Their car is faster than yours, more comfortable, more refined, more reliable, and they go on more holidays than you with the cash they're saving.
Same here, capitalism will kill off ICE vehicles and the gas boiler in your house long before a politician has the backbone to do anything about it.
Good to see the Presidential marker pen back in use.
Presumably he'd eaten all of the crayons?
all the tools of USAican soft power are now labelled as a rip-off, rather than 'this is how we influence the world for our benefit'
just had to turn newsnight off. wow.
I'll bet anyone 100 dollars, he doesn't have the dexterity to use a ball point pen, let alone a fountain pen.
I mean, what the hell is that? a Crayola felt tip?
What strikes me here is the instability.
Because he's a continuous fountain of bullshit, hyperbole and lies, we really have no idea what he's going to do.
We know what he has said he's going to do - but really we have no idea if he's actually going to do those things. Also - we have no idea what things he's going to do which he hasn't previously announced. In the least couple of weeks he's suggested that the US "aquire" Greenland, Canada FFS and....... (checks notes) the panama canal, and now a flagship policy is that he wants to-rename the gulf of Mexico.
My take on this is that we are still persisting at viewing him through the lens of a politician..... whereas we really need to regard him as an amoral and corrupt "businessman", for whom everything is a hustle.
I suspect that these threats of XYZ are really just hustles.... threatening to pull out of whatever, in order to gain some concession. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if 99% of them had the aim to enrich in personally, or as a favor to donors, or in aid of bolstering his popularity. He's freely admitted that the whole tiktok ban is a hustle. He was pushing for some joint venture whereby the US would own half of the company, the data, and presumably control of the algorithm. It's not because of concerns about tiktok on kids/national security etc. It's all just a grift.
I don't know if Trump is the most corrupt modern president (I strongly suspect he is), but he's certainly the most open about his corruption - he's made it very clear that his favor can be bought - whether for votes, or just cash in his pocket.
What will be interesting is not who's money he takes, but who's favors he actually bothers to follows-up on. He's got elected, so he doesn't need to chase votes now (unless he plans another term), so where's the benefit in actually delivering deportations etc?
I think actual ACTIONS will be limited to those things that benefit him and his cronies financially - and decisions that he makes off-the-cuff based on what he hears on fox news about it that morning over his pop-tarts, or whatever petty grievances he harbours.
F-150 with it’s Cummins diesel
Nah, you gotta be rednecking around in a 1 tonne if you wanna do any serious coal rolling or ice'ing
The pardons are a signal to his supporters, it isn't a reward for what they have done, it is about telling them he will protect them for what they will do.
I think this is going to be worse than we suspected, not necessarily the invade another country stuff in the first wave, but the internal divisions and violence, the attacks on minorities and political opponents. I think we really are probably at about 50/50 now as to seeing a repeat of Germany in the 30's, but given the global position of the US god knows where that leads, especially with Putin and China in the background. Axis of evil might be a rather quaint term for what is coming.
I watched him signing the WHO away on the news last night and after the shock of it, thought of the Pen thread on here. Maybe we could all club together and order a set for him. Something metal so he can't eat it, non refillable so he can't drink it. Crayola maybe so when the grown ups get back in charge it can be wiped clean?
So far it looks like it's all working out perfectly for the straight rich white man.
Not so much for everyone else. I had forgotten the daily morning headlines of his last term of the batshit thing he'd done the day before.
Nice of him to remove the prescription drug price caps Biden introduced to, if only it were just the idiotic Americans that voted for him suffer as a result
the big orange baby seems to be able to sign off on scrapping the 14th ammendment.
He can't and that executive order already has a lot of legal challenges, typically the order is stayed until resolved in the courts but not sure if that's always the case. It's one that will likely drag on a long time and end up in the SCOTUS - will be interesting to see how the corrupt judges there manage to twist their arguments to support it.
Not so much for everyone else. I had forgotten the daily morning headlines of his last term of the batshit thing he’d done the day before.
Yep,off we go again all the news will be continually chattering about everything he does.
All part of the Trumpshow a continual stream of shite , it’s just a TV show to him and being continually in the news means better ratings.
The continual fact checking and faux/real outrage will continuously churned out and weaponised by him for the season three renewel.
it will also obscure the real work that will be making sure future seasons continue without the ‘steal’ the next times.
capitalism will kill off ICE vehicles and the gas boiler in your house long before a politician has the backbone
I agree.
I think we're in a place where it's becoming financially and geo-politically savvy to use less power, generate your own energy, keep local on supplies, use nature to shade, shelter and provide in your own 'back yard' etc.
I quite like Bernie's concise take on things:
Concisely point out the gaps in Trumpism rather than rise to the bullshit, is that going to be the Dems do business for the next 4 years? I do wonder where they go from here...
What I’m more surprised at is how many Americans seem to buy such lies, not realising that the reality of his fantasy will be to hurt them.
Have you forgotten when 52% of UK voters made the same decision, and a goodly percentage of them would make the same decision today (based on the 2024 'poll').
I'm not a religious person but I did enjoy seeing the whole Trump front row squirm while the bishop was asking orange bloke to show mercy to those he's got his bludgeon ready.
Just heard some Trumpian asshole with a smooth voice on R4 saying the 14th Amendment is out of date because it was written 250 years ago during the War Of Independence.
I was willing Amol Rajan to say "Oh, OK, that might well be said of the 2nd Amendment too", then call him a bigoted **** and tell him to **** off.
But, of course, he/we can't.
What do we think of Trump pardoning the Silk Road guy? That seems a weird one to me.
With Elon the free speech absolutist in charge of cutting spending are we going to see budgets for policing the darker parts of the Web slashed? It can’t help the morale of the officers involved when the guy they spent so long trying to bring down is just set free.
I read somewhere that the UK doesn’t even really try to police the darkweb anymore (don’t have the resources). Instead we mainly rely on information passed to us by US and European agencies. Is this another area where Europe will have to step up (or have they stopped sharing information with us post-Brexit)?
It can’t help the morale of the officers involved when the guy they spent so long trying to bring down is just set free.
How about the morale of the capital police, imagine being attacked by a mob, seeing a colleague murdered, and then the mob pardoned.
I guess they are probably financially dependent on their jobs, but I am surprised that there aren't many resignations going in today. Unfortunately I think many of general law enforcement and military are on the trumpers side, so I don't foresee much general resistance there.
I think we saw in the BLM protests how the police have picked a side, and it isn't the side of justice, equality and fairness (there were a few good guys, but unfortunately they seemed to be in the minority)
What do we think of Trump pardoning the Silk Road guy? That seems a weird one to me.
Cause celebre of the tech libterarians and the 4chan crowd. In this version of reality, he only made a market and it's not his fault guns/drugs/women were traded there.
thought of the Pen thread on here. Maybe we could all club together and order a set for him.
Probably something suitable here:
https://www.penisland.net/
Just heard some Trumpian asshole with a smooth voice on R4 saying the 14th Amendment is out of date because it was written 250 years ago during the War Of Independence.
Would have been much better if he'd pointed out that the 14th Amendment came in 90 years later after tne Civil War, so the asshole knew **** all.
If the Americans don't want Bernie Sanders, can we have him?
Just heard some Trumpian asshole with a smooth voice on R4 saying the 14th Amendment is out of date because it was written 250 years ago during the War Of Independence.
They really dont know their history do they? The 14th is a post civil war amendment since the previous approach excluded slaves and children of slaves.
In this version of reality, he only made a market and it’s not his fault guns/drugs/women were traded there.
How far do they take this? If somebody hosts a site that contains terrorist (or child abuse) material are they still not responsible? I can see how it benefits Musk to claim that the host isn’t responsible for the content of the site, but that’s going to have some pretty nasty “unintended” consequences.
I don’t know if Trump is the most corrupt modern president (I strongly suspect he is)
He's still miles away from the personal wealth dictators like Putin and Xi have (reportedly) amassed.
From the bbc
A government memo instructs federal agencies to put diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility (DEIA) staff on paid leave by 17:00 local time on Wednesday.
So that's not just stop recruiting, but subjugate and remove and isolate those who had already achieved some equality. That is worse than I had imagined before in the speed that fascism is being enacted. I assume no one believes that "paid leave" will last more than a couple of weeks.
That is worse than I had imagined before in the speed that fascism is being enacted.
I am not surprised at all.
It was all written down and they were going to hit the ground running.
This is just the start of Project 2025.
It was clear what they were going to do but people said it's not real because that would be basically fascism..........
How about the morale of the capital police, imagine being attacked by a mob, seeing a colleague murdered, and then the mob pardoned.
Suicide rates have already been very high among officers who served there that day. How their families feel about all this, I can't imagine.
Well, they can't say they weren't warned. I guess as long as the masses are enjoying the cruelty, they won't mind their pockets being picked by Trump and his tech-bro chums.
I guess Bubba will see his next insulin bill as a price worth paying for 'owning the libs'.
Correction on my part. The aforementioned Trumpian asshole (Chad Wolf) stated that the 14th Amendment was made after the Civil War, not the War Of Independence. I was listening whilst eating a bowl of cereal, so not fully paying attention.
He's still an asshole, though.
The aforementioned Trumpian asshole (Chad Wolf) stated that the 14th Amendment was made after the Civil War, not the War Of Independence.
It wouldn't make any difference. If the MAGA crew want to change the constitution, they need to go through Congress. The President can't just decide he'll ignore stuff he doesn't like because it's old.
I’ll bet anyone 100 dollars, he doesn’t have the dexterity to use a ball point pen, let alone a fountain pen.
I mean, what the hell is that? a Crayola felt tip?
He's used a marker for years. Maybe he just likes it? People are allowed personal preference in this kind of thing.
Don't get me wrong I am no Trump fan. But there have been several posts in this and the Musk thread along the lines of "we need to fight this properly, attacking every little nothing just makes us seem weaker and grasping at straws" which I tend to agree with somewhat.
He has some serious problems. Using a marker is not really one of them, just a good opportunity for more mickey taking. Which often just makes the micky taker look worse than the mickey giver 😉
How about the morale of the capital police, imagine being attacked by a mob, seeing a colleague murdered, and then the mob pardoned.
Interesting just skimming through the "Live" BBC feed on the executive orders. The head of the Capitol police is understandably angry. One of those convicted is refusing to accept the pardon as she realises what she was involved in was illegal. The QAnon Shaman is delighted as apparently the pardon means he can buy guns again.
He’s used a marker for years. Maybe he just likes it?
Putting his name on things is Trump's number one thing, he delayed covid relief payments because he wanted the cheque being sent out to have his name one them as if he, personally, was your benefactor. He puts his name on buildings he doesnt own, on products he doesnt make and so on. The more places his name is the better in his eyes.
I think he sees a big part of the work of being president is being seen to sign these this, he's less interested in doing the work to see them through and there are quite a few of his executive orders that have just fizzled out to nothing becuase beyond slapping his name at the bottom he's not actuality pursued it further. He makes it press event, signs it, then holds it up for the cameras, makes an important looking face - I suspect thats why he uses a big fat marker pen, becuase he wants is signature to be as telegenic as possible.
It wouldn’t make any difference. If the MAGA crew want to change the constitution, they need to go through Congress. The President can’t just decide he’ll ignore stuff he doesn’t like because it’s old.
Why bother when you can ask SCOTUS to 'reinterpret it'?
Putting his name on things is Trump’s number one thing, he delayed covid relief payments because he wanted the cheque being sent out to have his name one them as if he, personally, was your benefactor. He puts his name on buildings he doesnt own, on products he doesnt make and so on. The more places his name is the better in his eyes.
I think he sees a big part of the work of being president is being seen to sign these this, he’s less interested in doing the work to see them through and there are quite a few of his executive orders that have just fizzled out to nothing becuase beyond slapping his name at the bottom he’s not actuality pursued it further. He makes it press event, signs it, then holds it up for the cameras, makes an important looking face – I suspect thats why he uses a big fat marker pen, becuase he wants is signature to be as telegenic as possible.
Probably all true. However he's used Sharpies for years since long before he was president (have seen comments on this going back to the 90s) so I don't think that's the only reason or even necessarily the main one.
However he’s used Sharpies for years
Don't forget the live edit on the hurricane forecast!
However he’s used Sharpies for years since long before he was president
Used correctly, they can alter the course of hurricanes.
The QAnon Shaman is delighted
Did you watch him on newsnight last night? I honestly was gobsmacked. These are the type of people supporting trump.
It's genuinely scary. I just hope there are enough advisors with sensible heads to help reign Trump in.
And I agree - can we have Bernie please
And I agree – can we have Bernie please
The democrat establishment including the Clintons, Biden, Obama, Pelosi et al did everything they could to prevent Sanders ever becoming president. If they hadn't Sanders would probably have been president and the world would undoubtedly be a very different place today. Just like we saw here in the UK, any form of resistance against the oligarchic neo-lliberal system was stamped out by those on the centre-left who claim to represent the interests of working people. And now they wonder why working people are turning against them.
I just hope there are enough advisors with sensible heads to help reign Trump in.
Nope. Pretty much all of them disowned Trump after having the pleasure of working for him first time around.
I mean, look at his cabinet picks, there is no-one there to mitigate him, in fact they will actively enable and encourage him. Until the next midterms, there is are no checks or balances on his authority, he has Congress, the Senate, the Supreme Court.
If you vote for an authoritarian government, that is what you will receive.
Alex Garland's choice of Texas alongside California as secession states in 'Civil War' was an interesting one. Both are high net contributors to Federal budgets, and Texas is not as deep a red state as some people think. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that secession movements could grow in both, given that Trump and his allies are already threatening to withhold federal aid to California for the wildfires. At what point will states think - why should we continue paying in?
So far it looks like it’s all working out perfectly for the straight rich white man.
That should be rich white man. Peter Thiel is gay and very much a driving force of the more extreme Trump policies.
How's this DEI thing work?
Are people specifically hired as DEI people, or is it a program to promote diversity in the workplace? If the latter, then who exactly is getting sent home on paid leave? How do you untangle a DEI hire from any other hire who may happen to be other than a white man?
I assumed it was employees within federal orgs whose role is (was) to promote diversity and equality in the workplace. Like an 'Equality Officer' in a local authority here.
I'm sure the chance to denounce and get black/lgbtq colleagues sacked for no reason will come along later. Baby steps first.
I assumed it was employees within federal orgs whose role is (was) to promote diversity and equality in the workplace. Like an ‘Equality Officer’ in a local authority here.
That was my understanding, but if anyone knows better it would be useful.
I’m sure the chance to denounce and get black/lgbtq colleagues sacked for no reason will come along later. Baby steps first.
Tragically that wouldn't surprise me.
What a load of nonsense... the idea that Trump won't act like "a strong man" and an "authoritarian" because he has control of most of the checks and balances... quite the opposite... the lack of opposition in the courts and in WashingtonDC will enable him to be much more authoritarian, and much more able to act up to the strong man narrative then last time he was in office. The rest of the world would be very foolish to think "there's less to stop him this time, therefore he will hold back".
Yeah, I can see what Finkelstein is trying to see, but I strongly disagree.
And especially with the likes of Musk, zuk and Theil in tyhe background, I think they see Trump in the US as their springboard to the rest of the world, their game isn't national politics, it is geopolitical (50% of ticktok coming in soon)
What a load of nonsense
Yeah, what does Norman Finkelstein know? What nonsense! I bet he doesn't even own a mountain bike!
I just hope there are enough advisors with sensible heads to help reign Trump in.
Amongst all the noise of the last 24hrs.. in fact within just a few hours of getting the keys to Whitehouse, Trump has mandated removal of Secret Service protection for John Bolton. So Trump is signalling loud and clear whats in store for anyone who's thinking about being sensible.
Bolton has been an assassination risk since Trump ordered the killing of Qasem Soleimani - the Revolutionary Guard have Bolton as their target for retaliation even though Bolton wasn't even in office when the order was made.
quite the opposite… the lack of opposition in the courts and in WashingtonDC will enable him to be much more authoritarian, and much more able to act up to the strong man narrative then last time he was in office.
People make the mistake of thinking that Trump has a political purpose in his actions...he's not seeking anything other than the aggrandisement (and enrichment) of Trump, to stamp down his own insecurity by projecting the image of a 'strongman'. It is why he idolises Putin, responds to flatterers and fawners, and is obsessed with petty revenge against anyone who has spoken against him.
If anything, he is more dangerous and unpredictable than a conventional authoritarian leader, who, as noted above, deliberately does this stuff to eliminate opposition. There is a narcissistic need in him to demonstrate his power even when it is unnecessary, and those who have his ear will be primed to harness that by dropping suggested policies and telling him who his 'enemies' are.