Donald! Trump!

Why are those people protesting at the outcome of a democratic election?

the result is official so what can they do?

Maybe they aren't protesting at the fact he's President, maybe they are protesting to the people who voted for him. If he's got any sense he will listen to their protests and perhaps modify his behaviour.

Big if, mind.

Its odd even racists get upset when you call them a racist and trump is one and so are some but not all of his supporters

Can you tell me what makes Trump a racist?

Give you a clue here:
I) Muslim's aren't a race, it's a religion
ii) Mexicans aren't a race either, let alone illegal immigrant Mexicans rather than legally resident Mexicans

Democracy isn't the problem, its what he does with his role, not sure if this has been posted, but read this twitter feed https://twitter.com/ShaunKing, some pretty horrific things happening on the back of trump. Certainly makes me not want to visit the US anytime soon.

If he's got any sense he will listen to their protests and perhaps modify his behaviour.

some pretty horrific things happening on the back of trump.

On the electoral college:

"Alexander Hamilton thought the electors would make sure “the office of President will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications.”"

Hm. So the electoral college could be considered duty bound to block Trump.

Why are those people protesting at the outcome of a democratic election?

Just like brexit, Trump won the election by deliberately lying and misrepresenting the truth in order to get people to vote for him. Along with a fair amount of hatred, racism, misogyny and incitement to violence. If democracy can be so easily subverted then the only thing left to do is to hit the streets. If he doesn't moderate his language, actions and his policies and start acting like a president, then I think we'll be seeing much more of this and I hope we do.

jam bo - Member

so what can they do?

Protest?

captainsasquatch - Member

Why are those people protesting at the outcome of a democratic election?

Because they can.

molgrips - Member

the result is official so what can they do?

Maybe they aren't protesting at the fact he's President, maybe they are protesting to the people who voted for him.

If he's got any sense he will listen to their protests and perhaps modify his behaviour.

Big if, mind.

Can you tell me what makes Trump a racist?

Give you a clue here:
I) Muslim's aren't a race, it's a religion
ii) Mexicans aren't a race either

[url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism ]

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

Or better still these snowflakes learn to bow to their next President.

Dream on snowflake.

Or better still these snowflakes learn to bow to their next President.

[img] https://goo.gl/images/QSkjXt [/img]

Or better still these snowflakes learn to bow to their next President.

Maybe they think it's weird that the person with the most votes was second and the runner up got a crushing majority?

The person with the most votes, and the crushing majority was Meh. Perhaps all those out in the streets might have done a little more before the election. I wonder how many of them voted Meh themselves.

dazh - Member

Why are those people protesting at the outcome of a democratic election?

Just like brexit, Trump won the election by deliberately lying and misrepresenting the truth in order to get people to vote for him. Along with a fair amount of hatred, racism, misogyny and incitement to violence.

If democracy can be so easily subverted then the only thing left to do is to hit the streets. If he doesn't moderate his language, actions and his policies and start acting like a president, then I think we'll be seeing much more of this and I hope we do.

Of course Trump is about to find out how little power the "most powerful man in the world" actual has.

As an aside, what are the odds on him being impeached before completing his term? Might be worth a flutter.

Or better still these snowflakes learn to bow to their next President.

[img] [/img]

Quote of the day prompted by the vile Katie Hopkins saying she will move to America if Trumps wins and Miley Cyrus saying she will leave if he wins.

[i]Miley Cyrus is a woman who gained fame by wiggling her arse provocatively. Katie Hopkins is a woman who gained fame by speaking out of her arse provocatively.[/i] 😀

mikey74 - Member

Or better still these snowflakes learn to bow to their next President.

Dream on snowflake.

captainsasquatch - Member

Or better still these snowflakes learn to bow to their next President.

Do you actually know what you're talking about?

aracer - Member

igm - Member

Of course Trump is about to find out how little power the "most powerful man in the world" actual has.

As an aside, what are the odds on him being impeached before completing his term? Might be worth a flutter.

He is next in line is he not? Or unless you say the current President (few months left) just turn into snowflak

captainsasquatch - Member

He is next in line is he not? Or unless you say the current President (few months left) just turn into snowflak

I'd love to respond to that and set you off on another set of quotes (it's like having a clockwork toy, innit?), but it makes no sense at all.

pb2 - Member
Quote of the day prompted by the vile Katie Hopkins saying she will move to America if Trumps wins and Miley Cyrus saying she will leave if he wins.

[i]Miley Cyrus is a woman who gained fame by wiggling her arse provocatively. Katie Hopkins is a woman who gained fame by speaking out of her arse provocatively.[/i]

"Of course Trump is about to find out how little power the "most powerful man in the world" actual has."

This. In fact, I suspect that will be his excuse for the Tsunami of broken promises.

"As an aside, what are the odds on him being impeached before completing his term? Might be worth a flutter."

I've been wondering this. I could even imagine him quitting complaining that he's not being allowed to deliver on his promises. ...and there's always ill health. I suspect the biggest problem with a bet might be its so likely the odds are rubbish.

Trump is smart and well advised. He has invited Theresa May to the US, first high profile public meeting with a female leader and reinforce the special relationship.

Despite all the "racist" "mysogynist" taunts he did no worse with Hispanic voters than Romney, he did better with white women than Clinton and the black vote didn't turn out for her as it did for Obama.

As above throwing these terms and insults around has proven to be ineffective time and time again. New plan required or expect the same results.

@pb2 priceless 🙂 Those saying they would leave if Trump won have been taking a lot of flak on Twitter - "why are you still here ?" Quite a few celebs have been back peddling, it was only a joke. Ricky Gervais has been chipping in too 🙂

@clod I would have voted (with a very heavy heart for Hillary), what I did say is that Trump could win and having won I prefer to think about some of the positives. If I had a vote I would (probably) vote FN as I think the EU needs to be disbanded or returned to purely a free trade block, the currency is broken - FN are the only party offering a Referendum. If FN did turn out to be a racist party as President they'd be kicked out pretty sharply.

Nice. Third mass terrorist attack in 18 months and not even counting the incidents like murdering and attempted beheading of an 80yr old Catholic priest. As for the perpetrator his ethnicity and religion where central to the attack.

THAT photo was massively staged, a group of photographers turned up with the woman and waited for her to be challenged. Other holiday makers made complaints about them photograpghing them and their children. The Burkini Ban was introduced by many local mayors following a big punch up in Corsica.

Friend made a few £££, had Trump at 8-1

As above throwing these terms and insults around has proven to be ineffective time and time again

They are not insults in the case of this man

I saw odds on Facebook of 16-1 at one point.

I did actually consider placing some money, but decided that winning a bet I'd rather lose wouldn't be small comfort.

jambalaya - Member
Friend made a few £££, had Trump at 8-1

Now I need to figure out the timing of the EU system collapse ... I will bet on that as I think I feel lucky ... 😛

GrahamS - Member
I saw odds on Facebook of 16-1 at one point.

I did actually consider placing some money, but decided that winning a bet I'd rather lose wouldn't be small comfort.

Arrghhh ... 16 - 1 ... arrghhh ... easy money gone! Gone! 😥

The burkini ban first appeared in Cagnes sur mer, Where they have been enforcing a 10kmh speed limit on the cycle paths on the seafront for several years now. It's an authoritarian Margate.

Anti Trump rally in New Orleans

Die whites die

[img] [/img]

Diane Abbot was there?

Anti Trump rally in New Orleans

Die whites die

artist

😆

first 10 mins in office I can imagine him thumping the desk shouting "show me the Roswell files! I want to see the aliens!!"

i cant do pictures but maybe someone can post a picture of the KKK burning a cross .
after all the KKK supported Trump . does it mean that all white men want to kill black people ?

that was pretty low for you Jambalaya .

I just noticed two "captains" in the house - captainsasquatch & CaptainFlashheart. 😛

ermmmm, has he released his tax returns?

Has the upcoming fraud trial regarding 'trump university' suddenly vanished?

😆

Trumps not uniting anyone, I just don't see it, we're already seeing kids in school shouting white supremacist nonsense at kids of other ethnicities because trump did, so its ok! I'm predicting a racial civil war of sorts, time to finally use all their guns for the intended purpose!

"shouting white supremacist nonsense at kids of other ethnicities because trump did"

I missed that, what did Trump shout?

rs - Member
Trumps not uniting anyone, I just don't see it, we're already seeing kids in school shouting white supremacist nonsense at kids of other ethnicities because trump did, so its ok! I'm predicting a racial civil war of sorts, time to finally use all their guns for the intended purpose!

You either already know this and are trying to show some higher level of intellect by forcing people to ask questions (that don't need asking), or you support the comments.
Which is it?

I really like the fact that you gave us a "legal" definition of racism, that isn't a legal definition of racism, but of something else, and that even if it was, would not capture any of Trumps actual comments.

Trumps not uniting anyone,

His victory speech was all about uniting people - it's amusing really, after all the sheer horror and derision that the Clintonistas came out with when Trump even so much as suggested he might not accept the outcome, unfortunately it seems that the only people unwilling to accept it was the lefties

"You wish them to have a civil war?"

Why not they started one in Iraq and helped spread it all over the Middle East.

I missed that, what did Trump shout?

Anyone watch the news with a clip where Trump was with Obama?

Trump didn't look comfortable at all, looked like he was thinking to himself "shit..."

I'm predicting a racial civil war of sorts, time to finally use all their guns for the intended purpose!

This. Considering it's a tinderbox with Obama as president all it's going to take is a trigger happy white cop to kill an unarmed black guy and the place will explode. The LA riots will look like a pensioners peace march in comparison.

dazh

all it's going to take is a trigger happy white cop to kill an unarmed black guy and the place will explode.

First time for everything I guess.

Trump didn't look comfortable at all, looked like he was thinking to himself [s]"shit..."[/s] "oh my he has big hands"

I'm not wishing them a civil war, but tensions are building pretty quick and I could see it happening to some extent. And he didn't say stuff to kids, other kids are chanting stuff at other kids on the basis he made remarks along similar lines during his campaign.

Look at say the wars in the balkans, years of underlying dislike for each other and suddenly it comes to a head, helped by the US I should add.

Trump didn't look comfortable at all, looked like he was thinking to himself "shit..."

Hehehe 🙂

Die Whites Die

First time for everything I guess.

First time for what?

outofbreath - Member
"You wish them to have a civil war?"
Why not they started one in Iraq and helped spread it all over the Middle East.

bikebouy - Member
Anyone watch the news with a clip where Trump was with Obama?

Trump didn't look comfortable at all, looked like he was thinking to himself "shit..."

Or do you mean Trump has not been coached like all the career politicians?

there should be an intelligence test before being allowed to vote.

Silly idea. Why not just only permit voting rights to people who agree with you? Far better. No...hold on....Why not just have a one party state instead? Remove all that troublesome democracy silliness. After all, some people are simply too thick to vote the right way, aren't they?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2016/nov/10/donald-trump-barack-obama-white-house-us-election-live-updates

He really does look way out of his depth: "La critique est aisée mais l'art est difficile"

there should be an intelligence test before being allowed to vote.
Brexit proved that.

well you have just implied your level of intelligence right there...

Silly idea. Why not just only permit voting rights to people who agree with you?

well you have just implied your level of intelligence right there...

President-elect Donald Trump’s transition team has announced that former Ohio secretary of state Ken Blackwell will be in charge of handling domestic policy issues in relation to the upcoming Trump administration’s legislative and executive priorities in its first hundred days

Blackwell, who currently works as a senior fellow at the Family Research Council, a Christian lobbying organization that lobbies lawmakers against LGBT rights, abortion and pornography, first gained national attention in 2006, when he was running to serve as Ohio’s governor.

In an interview at the time, Blackwell declared that homosexuality was a “lifestyle” that “can be changed.

“I think homosexuality is a lifestyle, it’s a choice, and that lifestyle can be changed,” Blackwell told the Columbus Dispatch at the time. “I think it is a transgression against God’s law, God’s will.”

“The reality is, again,” Blackwell continued, “that I think we make choices all the time. And I think you make good choices and bad choices in terms of lifestyle. Our expectation is that one’s genetic makeup might make one more inclined to be an arsonist or might make one more inclined to be a kleptomaniac. Do I think that they can be changed? Yes.”

Trump himself has said that, while he does not support same-sex marriage rights, he does support LGBT rights. Vice president-elect Mike Pence, on the other hand, first emerged on the national stage after signing an expansive anti-LGBT measure into law, and once signed into law a bill that would send same-sex couples attempting to obtain marriage licenses to jail.

this is not going to end well 😯

Just to cheer you all up, I don't think we've done this one yet:

https://medium.com/@theonlytoby/history-tells-us-what-will-happen-next-with-brexit-trump-a3fefd154714#.p9u6kbsu5

edit: crossposted with jamba, but an interesting rebuttal to his post

Brilliant link Aracer - I think Jimjams view that simple political correctness is feeding the alt right is overly simple. What it is, is the rejection of universalism and the rise of identity politics on the left (or regressive left) and the language that a lot of my left wing and BLM supporting mates are using - the language of "fighting". Im striken by the similarities to the rise of fascism, whoss rise was partly in response to the rise of communisim - these two competing ideologies forced many people to choose between the two during the early 20th century and fighting between them became increasingly bitter. As we all know, people did not swing back to the middle ground or find compromise with each other - they became more hardened in their views and resolved to wipe their opponents out. This is exactly what is happening now, that isn't to say that the left is entirely responsible for this - but my god - it's like having really bad Deja Vu.

I can't say I'm surprised by any of this, I've always held cynical views about humanity - mostly because I'm acutely aware of history.

Silly idea.

*Not watched it yet* but [url= https://www.startpage.com/snowden/ ]Edward Snowden has done a live broadcast with his thoughts on the election result that may be of interest, [/url]it starts about 35min.

Trump didn't look comfortable at all, looked like he was thinking to himself "shit..."

He's just never had to talk to a black guy without his hood on before. 😉

Trump didn't look comfortable at all, looked like he was thinking to himself "shit..."

So would you, if you'd just had a private meeting with the president who could tell you, for first time, the things that only people at the top of government (or about to be) and of the security services are allowed to know. It must be sobering. Rather him than me.

Does anyone have a view (based on knowledge or experience not opinion) if Trump can actually make good on his promise to bring back manufacturing to the rust belt states? I worked around some of these industries in the 90s and wonder if this is even remotely possible? He has also pledges that he will force US companies to bring back manufacturing from the far east? again is this possible?

I guess that depends whether the people will pay for it....

and this story just appeared in my local North Vancouver news, tell me trump's actions aren't contributing to this!

http://www.nsnews.com/news/swastika-spray-painted-on-north-vancouver-street-1.2625586
[img] [/img]

Trump plans to cut taxes not raise them so Americans paying for that type of investment is unlikley and I doubt there is any appetite in the US venture capital/investment market to start building auto parts manufacturing factories even if the tax breaks are massive - robbing peter to steal from Paul methinks

Someone pointed out on Question Time that trump may not actually want to be president just fancied winning it?

and this story just appeared in my local North Vancouver news, tell me trump's actions aren't contributing to this!

http://www.nsnews.com/news/swastika-spray-painted-on-north-vancouver-street-1.2625586
[img] [/img]

Has the upcoming fraud trial regarding 'trump university' suddenly vanished?

Not at all. Fraud is a bit of an exageration though, students are complaining they didn't get as good a course as they expected. More "trades description"

One of the rape accusations/law suits was dropped before the election.

In other news it was reported that Clinton may be given a Presidential pardon for any illegal activity which [b]may[/b] have taken place. Not even sure that's possible but it sounds very dodgy.

@rs is that a Trump hater saying he is a Nazi ? Vancouver is pretty liberal yes, heavily Democrat area ? Don't know. All racism is vile.

US has the difficult job of coming together or at least just live and let live. We see here on STW the fallout of Brexit and that is small beer in comparison to Trump's election.

Someone pointed out on Question Time that trump may not actually want to be president just fancied winning it?

He certainly seemed to have had a change of mood somewhat at the Obama meeting.

Maybe it's finally dawning on him that he'll actually have to follow through his vague promises of making everything "better" with some actual detailed policies.

He'll need a lot of help...

To be fair on Jamby; he has made some valid points that I have found enlightening in terms of what were dealing with- read between the lines guys.

http://socialistreview.org.uk/378/lessons-of-defeat

Trotsky and his German supporters pleaded in vain with the Communists to concentrate their efforts on the key issues of the moment, above all the threat of Nazism: "Denying this threat, belittling it, failing to take it seriously is the greatest crime that can be committed today."

Trotsky warned, would find the Nazis riding "over your skulls and spines like a terrifying tank"

I love history...god damnit I have a lot of ideas swirling around at the moment.

He'll need a lot of help...

This isnt just about white people feeling a bit poor and forgotten is it, its bigger than that and doesnt explain the upper middle class college educated whites voting for him. Replace communism with identity politics guys....

Fascism is often considered a reaction to communist and socialist uprisings in Europe.[23] Italian fascism, founded and led by Benito Mussolini, took power after years of leftist unrest led many conservatives to fear that a communist revolution was inevitable. Historians Ian Kershaw and Joachim Fest argue that in the early 1920s the Nazis were only one of many nationalist and fascist political parties contending for the leadership of Germany's anti-communist movement.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-communism#Fascism_and_far-right_politics

Tom thanks, people need someone to be mad at and it's often me. The world is going to have to work out how to deal with him, Anericans too. The Mexicans have been pretty conciliatory in public as they have to be as the US is such a big trading partner.

He's old and way out of his depth so it wont last long but I feel Its now more important then ever the UK and EU liberal leftish parties reflect the wide spread anti golbalization sentiment and close the door thas currently swinging wipe open for any lunatic (like trump) to step through.

@rs is that a Trump hater saying he is a Nazi ? Vancouver is pretty liberal yes, heavily Democrat area ? Don't know. All racism is vile.

I doubt its a trump hater, trump inspired hater more likely, I assume its some sad little man feeling a little empowered on the back of trumps win. Of course that feeling isn't as predominant here, and why the situation in the US should make them feel empowered here is dumb but a little worrying too.

I've been reading the [url= https://twitter.com/ShaunKing ]Shaun King twitter[/url] feed (you should all check it if you haven't already) during the day which is saddening enough, to finish the day seeing that in my own neighbourhood, its just a massive FFS, what a sad world we're living in type of feeling 😕

To dimiss Trump and many of those who voted for him by saying that they are unfit to hold office or stupid and that democracy has failed, is arguably flawed prejudiced reasoning.

I think supporters of the American democratic system can make a compelling argument that the Trump phenomenon is succesful democracy in action. The approach of the establishment in the Republican and Democratic parties in the last decade or two seems to have been to take their core voting groups for granted and focus on 'triangulation' and winning swing voters in the swing states, and saying to those swing voters whatever they thought would get their vote. Neither party had anything major to offer those Americans who have seen living standards stay static/fall, presumably because it was too difficult/impossible to develop an economic strategy that would deliver against the background of low Chinese labour costs, the financial crash, a couple of expensive wars and probably a lot of vested interests.

What destroyed that comfortable two party status quo was the US Primary system that allowed a maverick outsider, who was regarded as an enemy within by many Republicans, to win the nomination.

And for all his faults and flaws, I can't help wondering if he might just pull it off. If he did, he would go down in history as one of the greatest Presidents. The Republicans in Congress and the Senate could doubtless prevent Trump making many reforms, but the problem for them - and the Democrats - may be that the dam has burst and the electorate will no longer vote for the same old same old, and will turn to whoever promises to make major change, and will keep voting for more radical/maverick candidates until they get what they want.

It may be that Trump will have a window of opportunity to implement economic reforms that otherwise would not happen:

- he has probably more political clout to carry momentum forward than any recent new President, and the establishment Republicans probably know that they have to work with him to succeed, otherwise they face the prospect of an even angrier electorate throwing them all out in the next elections in favour of another protest/voice of change candidate.
- economic factors may be much more in the USA's favour than in the last decade, e.g. low energy costs thanks to fracking etc. and possibly reducing labour cost differentials compared with Mexico/China
- no expensive wars
- if his proposal goes ahead to allow/force Apple etc. to bring profits held offshore into the USA at a favorable tax rate, that could both give him a large tax windfall for infrastructure projects and also result in a lot of investment of those repatriated profits in USA based businesses
- if he's as big a narcissist as some people say, nothing would probably motivate him more than the prospect of being lauded as a great President.

Ronald Reagan was similarly demonised by the left, especially outside the USA, but I think was widely considered by most Americans to have been a very good President (and to have been much smarter than many gave him credit for being).

That all said, whatever actually happens and whether or not it proves to be good for the USA and the rest of the world as a whole, there is clearly going to be a lot of change and uncertainty, and it's always the weak and the poor who suffer most during major upheavals. I dread to think what it must like for those Americans who currently depend upon the Affordable Care Act to get access to decent health care and who now face losing that.

"Does anyone have a view (based on knowledge or experience not opinion) if Trump can actually make good on his promise to bring back manufacturing to the rust belt states?"

Perhaps the *threat* of high import Tariffs might stop manufacturing firms moving their production to Mexico or China, without sparking retaliatory Tariffs.

I've wondered over the last few years if the conventional wisdom that using Tariffs to protect your jobs is true when one country is so competitive than they take pretty much *all* the developed world manufacturing. What could they really do to retaliate that's worse than the current situation?

However, I assume if there was a way to save manufacturing in the rust belt previous administration's would already have done it, so my bet is no.

If boosting an economy was as simple as building a load of infrastructure and collecting hard to collect taxes, wouldn't everyone be doing it?

The Republicans in Congress and the Senate could doubtless prevent Trump making many reforms, but the problem for them - and the Democrats - may be that the dam has burst and the electorate will no longer vote for the same old same old, and will turn to whoever promises to make major change, and will keep voting for more radical/maverick candidates until they get what they want.

Ronald Reagan was similarly demonised by the left, especially outside the USA, but I think was widely considered by most Americans to have been a very good President (and to have been much smarter than many gave him credit for being).

[img] [/img]