[Closed] Dole Rant!!!! Bit Daily Mailish (sorry)

There are people who spend most of their 'working' day on STW, and earn loads more than people like nurses who work far longer hours for far less pay and no time on STW.

Life's unfair. Go and have a good cry about it.

MTH

like nurses who work far longer hours for far less pay and no time on STW.

Isn't TJ a nurse? 😆

There are people who spend most of their 'working' day on STW, and earn loads more than people like nurses who work far longer hours for far less pay and no time on STW.

Life's unfair. Go and have a good cry about it.

I've been on here so much recently I've almost forgotten what my real job is.

Oh that's right it's catching doley scroungers.

Elfinsafety - Member

There are people who spend most of their 'working' day on STW, and earn loads more than people like nurses who work far longer hours for far less pay and no time on STW.

Life's unfair. Go and have a good cry about it.

I know. I can do that too. In sales I probably take home more than most nurses while playing on STW most of the day. But I work all hours god sends to earn that.

Me - semi retired 🙂

There are 2.5 million people without jobs - where are these 2.5 million jobs coming from?

The Southern Yeti - Member

I've been on here so much recently I've almost forgotten what my real job is.

Oh that's right it's catching doley scroungers.

Come and get the one next to me on the Barry to Cardiff train then please!

I'm sure if the government stopped all benefits to the scroungers who can't be bothered to get off their fat arses to do some work they'd save a fortune and get the country out of the financial hole it's in almost overnight.

Benefits bill is lower than most think - you read the Mail too much.

Anyway why not get off your own fat ass, take a pic of the guy and send it to the DSS?

Some folk always expect someone else to sort things out.

Am I the only person who read [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11033139 ]this[/url] and thought "Great way to create a smackhead crimewave..."

We should use the swiss approach...

TandemJeremy - Member

Me - semi retired

There are 2.5 million people without jobs - where are these 2.5 million jobs coming from?

I haven't got that far yet.

cynic-al - Member

I'm sure if the government stopped all benefits to the scroungers who can't be bothered to get off their fat arses to do some work they'd save a fortune and get the country out of the financial hole it's in almost overnight.

Benefits bill is lower than most think - you read the Mail too much.

Anyway why not get off your own fat ass, take a pic of the guy and send it to the DSS?

Some folk always expect someone else to sort things out.

Sadly no camera. And he got off the train at Barry 🙁

I wanted a Rant about it. Before I go and talk to people who can't understand why a claim they made after writing off their car makes their premium go up 🙂 before I sell stuff to them and go home happy with my wages.

Had this conversation with a work mate a while ago. He lives in Denistoun in Glasgow where there must be something like 90% unemployment and was moaning about how he pays, they don't. They drink all day long, they have better clothes than him, all have sky and play stations etc etc etc.

I asked him if he would really want to work next to these people......

He didn't say much after that.

I don't know what the solution is? But I do know it's been going wrong for so long that it's going to take quite a while to fix.

Come and get the one next to me on the Barry to Cardiff train then please!

Sorry mate, something might happen on here...

2.5 million people without jobs

TJ that stat is already old. I think you should have inserted a counter instead.

"There are 2.5 million people without jobs - where are these 2.5 million jobs coming from?"

Well, they could start cleaning Glasgow for a start - it's a bloody dump! A right disgusting mess for a supposedly 'advanced' civilisation.... I'm going to stop there.... If they clean we'll pay them a wage instead of benefit.

Had this conversation with a work mate a while ago. He lives in Denistoun in Glasgow where there must be something like 90% unemployment and was moaning about how he pays, they don't. They drink all day long, they have better clothes than him, all have sky and play stations etc etc etc.

Thats the bit that annoys me. I haven't got a problem if people are willing to work legally. Its the ones who play the system and get away with it.

Sorry mate, something might happen on here...

Lol I know. And I need to get off the train now 🙁 Don't anybody go anywhere! 😛

I doubt anyone actully wants tosupport fraudelent dole claimants do they?

Most people can find work within the 6 months before that gets reviewed if they are wanting to work. If you don't want to work what a shame. You'll go hungry.

In 2008/09, gross income tax receipts were £152.5 billion. In the same year, social security benefits cost the Exchequer £150.1 billion.

In 2009/10, the Treasury is expecting to take in £140.5 billion in gross income tax receipts. Social security benefits are projected to be £164.7 billion.

cynic-al - Member

Benefits bill is lower than most think - you read the Mail too much.

you might think that wiping out entire income tax revenue, and equating to 25% of ALL tax revenue is 'not much......'

Bring back conscription lol

I'm amazed that anyone would still espouse getting rid of the dole. I could see how some people could arrive at their opinions before the credit crunch - getting work was very easy, and most middle class people had no experience of unemployment.

Post credit crunch, pretty much every profession going has had redundancies, and work is much harder to come by.

I've no time for people who play the system, but suggesting blanket removal of unemployment benefits is incredibly wrongheaded.

I used to work in a Benefits Office. The system is a mess, a shockingly high percentage of claimants have made a profession of playing the system for a 'free lunch'. This is terrible for genuine claimants because of the stigma it then attaches to being on long term sick, carer, or unemployment benefits.

What REALLY boils my piss is every time benefits reform is touted all these groups (often disabled rights groups) start banging their pots and pans. What the hell are they scared of? I know there is always the danger a few genuine claimants might suffer, but to my mind saving the money captured back from the scroungers might pay for better services for the genuine folk.

I am also a secondary carer for my mother-in-law who has MS and is paralysed from the chest down - my wife and myself live with her to help with the care. So that gives me more perspective also (I think). Annoyingly, my father in law is one of these folk who rants everytime benefit reform is touted. I just keep my mouth shut.

Military service for the long term unemployed, community service for the short term unemployed; care taken that they have the time too, and are still looking for work. The long term sick can sometimes do work, should be explored. For example Common Wheel is a Glasgow charity were the mentally ill restore second hand bikes for resale.

Plenty more folk deserve more than they get. More for pensioners and the genuinely ill, less for Billy the ned driving a nearly new Focus obtained on mobility, meant for his mum.

DenDennis isn't National insurance the portion of tax that is 'supposed' to cover 'benefits' under the welfare state?

So you focusing on Income tax ignores £104.6bn 'earmarked' for that purpose.

Does 'Social security benefits' in your post cover state pensions? What proportion of these are pensions?

There are loads of statistics out there and the daily mail don't help. According to statistics that nearly 4 million people are unemployed, but could be wrong. I am on benefits and try my dam hardest to find work every day and it is a case of supply and demand - the supply is low in every sector and the demand is very high. There is about 200+ people applying for every job going. But it is the agencies and employers that still wont fill vacancies that maybe there and if you go to the jobcentre and look on the jobpoints 90% of the jobs are middle/high ended - demanding qualifications (degrees/a-levels) and loads of experience. I cant even get a IT Support job - got 10 years experience/had my own business for 5 years and got 2 years qualifications in IT (A-level) equivalent.

So where does the answer lye and the recession is far from over, loads of companies making people redundant.

Rant over

there will be a lot more unemployment too when the gov cut backs get into full swing...mind you all these scroungers will no doubt get caught out by Experion under the govs benefits shake down....like heck.

I do sometimes wonder how may of the ranters on here have actually experienced unemployment and had to go and claim benefits.

Workhouses.
Solves both the unemployment and housing shortage problems in one go.

ctznsmith - Member

DenDennis isn't National insurance the portion of tax that is 'supposed' to cover 'benefits' under the welfare state?

So you focusing on Income tax ignores £104.6bn 'earmarked' for that purpose.

Does 'Social security benefits' in your post cover state pensions? What proportion of these are pensions?

not sure actually, I'll have to dig the web for more 'facts' but in any case, even if 'benefits' included state pensions, the proportion of payouts compared to combined income tax/nat insurance revenue is surprising.....
What that chart shows perhaps more surprisingly, is the relatively low proportion of corporation tax.

Unless you plan to do something about it, get on with your own life.

In 2008/09, gross income tax receipts were £152.5 billion. In the same year, social security benefits cost the Exchequer £150.1 billion.

In 2009/10, the Treasury is expecting to take in £140.5 billion in gross income tax receipts. Social security benefits are projected to be £164.7 billion.

this is what happens in a recession - which is why cutting jobs is a bad idea as the benefits bill goes up and the tax take down. Those numbers will be worse next year as unemployment rises leading to lower tax take and higher benefits bill

I do sometimes wonder how may of the ranters on here have actually experienced unemployment and had to go and claim benefits

I have. I signed on for a grand total of a week before I decided I'd rather manage myself by taking any job I could find.

in regars to the OP,
a) he was probably bullsh!tting
b) as great as free money is, im sure if he was being honest hed rather have qualifications, a steady job etc
c) its friday dont worry about it

and i also think that smackhead crimewave is the result of stopping junky benefits!

I probably take home more than most nurses while playing on STW most of the day. But I work all hours god sends to earn that.

er? did you read that?

I'm on the Dole, i'm earning my tax credits back. It's essentially my Pension fund that i'm dipping into. I've been paying into it for years through national insurance and now i'm being given some of it back so that i can fund my ventures into finding a new job. 😀 If it didn't exist i'd be in a much worse position. I'm not backing up the scroungers, who are out there in their millions. just glad that this system is in place for people like me.

OP - you'd be better off ranting about cash-in-hand work

course, we "all" like to avoid VAT etc and take the cheapest quote for getting work done when it suits us

anagallis_arvensis - Member
I probably take home more than most nurses while playing on STW most of the day. But I work all hours god sends to earn that.
er? did you read that?

what Waderider said.

career scroungers are a strain on more than just the benefits system. If (like my past neighbour) you don't need to get up and work for your vodka money, why not have a party most nights blasting your crap music out, using up council env health dept's and coppers' time....

I wish people would stop trotting out that old line about enforced military service for 'benefit scroungers'...

1) It's an insult to all of our servicemen/women to insinuate some sort of moral/status equivalency between them and the aforementioned lifestyle benefit recipients.

2) Such people would be a total hindrance in any professional military.

3) Every advanced military in the world has either moved from or is in the process of moving on from the concept of conscription with the exception of Israel and that's only due to the fact that they're so heavily outnumbered by their enemies and could face a war of national survival at any time.

4) The military are too small and have far more important things to do than babysit for society's least wanted.

[i]I do sometimes wonder how may of the ranters on here have actually experienced unemployment and had to go and claim benefits. [/i]

Not a ranter as such but I was on benefits for 3 months following redundancy and it was the most soul-destroying period of my life. I can't work out how these 'dole scroungers' do it either, the number of hoops I had to jump through to even get the bare minimum was incredible. And it certainly wasn't a living wage.

Going to the Job Centre every fortnight was something I came to loathe very quickly although some of the staff there were OK there were plenty who obviously hated being there as much as I did.

I wish people would stop trotting out that old line about enforced military service for 'benefit scroungers'...

And while shifting the costs from the Social security bill onto the Defence bill. I don't know if anyone noticed, but defence spending is about to be cut.

I do think that a lot of people think we shouldn't be "handing" money out at all, that they should get a job. There aren't many jobs around for starters, not that many of these people would have the qualifications or experience to do them anyway. In times like these, if you don't hand out the money, many of them will be robbing you blind, literally to get money.

The benefit system was designed to help participants for a short period only. It has become a long term solution in certain areas of the country where industries were closed down a couple of decades back. Lack of social mobility compounds the problem.

What that chart shows perhaps more surprisingly, is the relatively low proportion of corporation tax.

Shows you how "business friendly" Previous Governments have been.

I nearly got there, walked miles to every building site I could find and got labouring work.

Dole to me is just complete failure whatever the circumstances. There is always work somewhere IMO - you just need to remove any standards and possibly do something truly awful for a while.

Dole to me is just complete failure whatever the circumstances. There is always work somewhere IMO - you just need to remove any standards and possibly do something truly awful for a while.

Surely one of the reasons you pay taxes is so that you can be supported by the state during periods out of work and don't have to resort to humiliation / begging?

It's not scrounging or failure to be on the dole (assuming you're actually looking for work) it's one of the primary functions of the state - to support the (albeit transiently) needy.

I was on the dole for a couple of months when I left uni, during that time I looked for work, and generally had a crap time. At the end of that period I found a well paid job and have subsequently paid back in taxes vastly more than what I took back out in benefits.

I nearly got there, walked miles to every building site I could find and got labouring work.

Dole to me is just complete failure whatever the circumstances. There is always work somewhere IMO - you just need to remove any standards and possibly do something truly awful for a while.

I ended up as a fast food monkey for Domino's. Got a real job and moved from there.

Needing to go on the dole isn't something I consider a route for my tax money to go.

It's just a mentality I guess - I've had several periods of struggling to find a "proper" job but the longest I've not had any is three days. Just done stuff like farm labouring, site labouring, office temping when I've really struggled. Grim but it's still work.

You can easily look for work while doing something menial.

You can easily look for work while doing something menial.

Easier to find work when in work and all that 🙂

SURF-MAT Is AWESOME 😛

Just to add a potentially 'explosive' thought- I do admire the (seemingly always non-british) blokes, often along with wives/sisters etc, rather enterprisingly setting up hand car washes on bits of waste ground or disused petrol stations and the like.... cars will always need washing and all that. 😆

not sure if they are working under the iron fist of some evil ringmaster though...

Just to add a potentially 'explosive' thought- I do admire the (seemingly always non-british) blokes, often along with wives/sisters etc, rather enterprisingly setting up hand car washes on bits of waste ground or disused petrol stations and the like.... cars will always need washing and all that.

not sure if they are working under the iron fist of some evil ringmaster though...

Or find some fruit or veg to pick

It's just a mentality I guess - I've had several periods of struggling to find a "proper" job but the longest I've not had any is three days. Just done stuff like farm labouring, site labouring, office temping when I've really struggled. Grim but it's still work.

Must be the mentality. My logic is that if I'm going to give an effective 60% of my wage to the government every year (Tax+NI+Student Loan), I will certainly use any benefits i'm entitled to. It's not scrounging and i'm not going to do 'grim' work.

So Ewan - you are a Daily Mail reader type who thinks he is "above" menial work then?

God help you if you lose your "vital" job and struggle to find another. Oh hang on, you are so damn important, you'll never have any issues finding extremely well paid work will you? You'd rather go on the dole than do something with your time?

I wonder why Britain is falling to bits? It's because of this ^ attitude.

[i]Just to add a potentially 'explosive' thought- I do admire the (seemingly always non-british) blokes, often along with wives/sisters etc, rather enterprisingly setting up hand car washes on bits of waste ground or disused petrol stations and the like.... cars will always need washing and all that.

not sure if they are working under the iron fist of some evil ringmaster though... [/i]

Nah, its to take advantage of the tax-credits system - seriously.

I signed on for the first time ever last year, my entitlement was £50 per week. So in 6 months I got £2500 - which was less than the tax I use to pay, every month!

Even if there was work around for everyone, as a previous post said, would YOU employ them?

Matt, I clearly need to explain this a bit better.

One of the basic functions of a democracy is to provide for the needy - when I was out of work I was one of those, perhaps not on the scale of someone in Afghanistan but probably by the standards of the UK.

Society as a whole has decided that it is broadly in favour of people who find themselves out of work (aka the needy) being supported by the state for a short period.

This decision has been translated into a series of rules and regulations by the sitting and past governments; one of those rules is that you don't have to take 'any' work, you can choose something that suits your skill set (at least for the first couple of months or so).

I've met my side of the bargain that is struck between the state and it's population - I followed the rules and paid my taxes, as a result the state met it's side and I wasn't forced to do something I was totally unsuited to.

I'm not naive enough to think i'll never be out of work again, but when I am, I will follow the rules that govern the dole and assuming it's for the short term probably decide against breaking my back lifting rocks around a building site. If I was unfortunate not to find of my choosing within the permitted time I'd then take whatever I could find, but not before.

I'm not sure I agree with your point that me spending 5 years at university studying engineering and then going into a decent job without spending a couple of months on a building site is the entire reason for 'Britain falling to bits'.

And for information, my time was spent applying for jobs, attending and prepping for a couple of interviews a week at a minimum, and doing shifts at the local cancer charity shop.

More money is lost through error than fraudulant claims, and both amounts are vastly eclipsed by the revenue lost through tax avoidance techniques utilised by the richest in our society.

FWIW I signed on for a full two weeks, got a job labouring on a building site and then managed to find a better job while I was working there. It's not a fun existence but I think that was more because I personally felt like a failure having to rely on JSA.

You could have done office temping, fruit picking, anything really. I managed despite having previously got an Engineering degree and a well paid job.

Breaking your back lifting rocks? Well to me that's a free gym membership with a bit of a laugh thrown in as a bonus.

I don't think of paying taxes as a "bank" in which I dip into if things go wrong. Therefore if work dries up, I find work and I search everywhere until I find it - always been the case from casual jobs aged 12 to the present day.

Funnily enough I managed to find a "decent" job in my spell of temp stuff and all went fine.

IMO you simply think you are above menial tasks as many of the UK's population are - hence hard working Eastern Europeans grabbing loads of jobs and so causing blue collar workers to moan at all these immigrants.

Being a UK citizen does not mean automatic rights to a "good" job, a mortgage and everything else that society now demands without ever thinking about it.

[url= http://liberalconspiracy.org/2010/08/20/sir-philip-green-tax-avoider-gets-job-on-the-side/ ]Tax Avoider appointed public spending Tsar[/url]

Put the firm in the name of the missus, set the old girl up with a nice little gaff down in Monaco, and then pay her a dividend of well over a billion quid. Tell the taxman to go swivel.

That’s essentially what Sir Philip Green did in 2005, so ensuring that not a single one of those 1,200,000,000 spons got unnecessarily spent on schools and hospitals and that sort of stuff. All 100% legit, natch.

I never suggested that being a UK citizen did entitle me to a 'good' job. I suggested I was entitled to follow the rules, which I did. If you want to lift rocks, then great, I didn't.

And to be frank, I do think I'm above doing menial tasks. If I didn't why would I have applied myself for 21 years in education in order to get good GCSEs, good A-Levels, a good degree, a masters, and then finally after all of that a 'good' job? I'd have to be crazy if I did all of that to then pick fruit for a living.

You don't get anything for nothing in life - I've worked hard to get what I have, I've never thought i'd get it 'without thinking about it' for an instant.

Its a simple fact that there are significantly more people than jobs - millions of people are not going to get a job no matter how hard they try - there simply isn't the jobs out there

so where do you think this couple of million new jobs are going to come from?

Ewan - yes of course I also studied for years so I could lift rocks...
It's called necessity. Being out of work, whether you have ten phds and a string of successes or have no quals is one of the worst things that can happen to anyone. You'd happily sit on your "highly educated" butt because you think you are above it all, many of use will seek out work as a matter of the utmost urgency.

I know a few previously well paid people who will not "stoop" to a menial job so they remain on the dole. Oh very dear.

Still you have a very high opinion of yourself professionally - stay in the right circles and I'm sure that'll take you far...

TJ - millions of people that don't try hard enough. Survival of the fittest and all that. Look hard enough in the right places and you'll find work.

I was unemployed for a while about 5 years ago, no ****er would give me a job doing anything due to my qualification overload despite signing on at a number of temp agencies, going into pubs and restaurants whilst also doing the proper job applications my degree, masters and PhD deserved... finally took a job for 2 months at the other end of the country for £14 000 a year. If I'd have had family I wouldnt have been able to do that. Its not always as simple as just looking about, shame some on here cannot see that.

Look hard enough in the right places and you'll find work.

not everyone will and your slightly deluded if you think thats true.

Being out of work, whether you have ten phds and a string of successes or have no quals is one of the worst things that can happen to anyone

That's my point. That's why society has decided to support those people unfortunate enough to find themselves in that situation. Would you rather we temporarily reverted to hunter gathering and knocked off the nearest chubby looking dog?

You have a number of weeks on the dole before you have to take 'anything'. I followed the rules, I found a job within that time frame. I didn't feel the need to 'prove' myself by taking anything going.

Besides, as I pointed out above, I didn't sit on my 'highly educated' butt, I did a number of things including, getting a job.

You seem to be incredibly angry that there are people who are happy to follow the rules that society has decided upon and then get a job that contributes back to society at the end of it. I'm not entirely sure why.

What do you want taxes to be spent on if not for improving the welfare of society? Guns? Tanks? Subscriptions to STW? Free copies of the Express for everyone?

This decision has been translated into a series of rules and regulations by the sitting and past governments; one of those rules is that you don't have to take 'any' work, you can choose something that suits your skill set (at least for the first couple of months or so).

I've met my side of the bargain that is struck between the state and it's population - I followed the rules and paid my taxes, as a result the state met it's side and I wasn't forced to do something I was totally unsuited to.

But when I signed on for my one and only time. After paying National Insurance for 10 years I was only given 3 months of Job Seekers allowance. Which I used a week of as I didn't bother going back to sign on again.

And to be frank, I do think I'm above doing menial tasks. If I didn't why would I have applied myself for 21 years in education in order to get good GCSEs, good A-Levels, a good degree, a masters, and then finally after all of that a 'good' job? I'd have to be crazy if I did all of that to then pick fruit for a living.

I have a friend who has done all that, less the masters. Now after 15 years he's still working as a barman in a local pub. He's been there for the whole time.

Incredibly angry? Ermmm...

I just don't like people who think they are above others. They bore me, they leach off society, they moan, they bleat yet do nothing about anything.

I like people who just get on with it. Don't moan. Just DO stuff. They are the ones that get ahead - not necessarily financially but they just get on in life.

So going on the dole is "following the rules" is it? Not it isn't. It's admitting failure.

And if getting a job in hard times is so impossible, how come I've always had work? I've lived in Cornwall, Swansea and Bristol - mostly not what I'd called centres of mass employment. It's because of a strong work ethic that's all.

Right now I can think of at least three jobs/work I could get locally tomorrow if our company suddenly keeled over.

I like people who just get on with it. Don't moan. Just DO stuff. They are the ones that get ahead - not necessarily financially but they just get on in life.

I presume you've not got ahead then? You're the one moaning about people on the dole. Personally I'm not bothered, there will be people that game the system, but the majority will play by the rules. I've done alright so far, even though I've briefly been on the dole, so you won't hear me moaning about it.

So going on the dole is "following the rules" is it? Not it isn't. It's admitting failure.

Well it's not really is it? It's being intelligent and using all the resources available to you to better yourself. To decide that something's below you for no good reason is pretty silly.

Anyway, please let me know how I've 'leached' off society, I'm curious. You also avoided my question of what taxes should be spent on if not for supporting a countries citizens.

TJ - millions of people that don't try hard enough. Survival of the fittest and all that. Look hard enough in the right places and you'll find work

So going on the dole is "following the rules" is it? Not it isn't. It's admitting failure

Well apart from running a PR business that's increased profit every year since it started up and has numerous blue chip clients, nope, not got ahead at all. 🙄

See people like you love to judge others very quickly.

Going on the dole is sponging - it's contributing NOTHING to society at all. Sure the system is needed but IMO taxes are best spent elsewhere. The NHS, Defence, subsidising nuclear power stations (URGENTLY needed), disability benefits (fair IMO), emergency services, prisons, kick starting new enterprise and exports, education, etc, etc.

Dole is not "supporting" citizens - it's giving a crutch to those who can't be ar5ed to find a job 99% of the time.

I dont measure myself by how much worth I have or get any self esteem for doing something I dhnt want too for money.

Well having done farm labouring, site labouring, base level office temping, heavy work in wholesale fruit markets, etc, I think I can safely say that I don't measure myself on how much worth I have. Sure it's handy not worrying too much about money but if I meet someone and they give it the "I earn "x" I drive "z" I own "xxx" then I just walk away. It's what you do not what you earn that makes a person IMO.

Matt, you missed my point. I was showing you that you contradicted yourself by saying that people who moaned never got ahead, whereas here you are moaning about people on the dole and you've clearly got ahead.

See people like you love to judge others very quickly.

Do I even need to bother to explain the irony in this sentence when the following sentence is...

Going on the dole is sponging - it's contributing NOTHING to society at all.

Absolutely no judging going on there at all.

Dole is not "supporting" citizens - it's giving a crutch to those who can't be ar5ed to find a job 99% of the time.

Really. I suspect the technical term for the proceeding sentence is 'bollocks'.

See people like you love to judge others very quickly.

Going on the dole is sponging...........

😆

awesome irony

I was on the dole for a couple of months. Hated it. I mean, really HATED it.

Problem seems to be endemic on both sides of the fence - a lot of the Job Centre employees appear to hate their jobs; those that don't have to fight with a computer system designed in the 17th century, and they're both pitted against a glut of unemployed who never have, and never will, work.

Their system has no capability to recognise qualifications higher than NVQ, and it continually recommends jobs hundreds of miles away. When you do apply, most employers will ignore you.

The solution I found in the end was to doctor my CV, which got me a job within 3 days.

good GCSEs, good A-Levels, a good degree, a masters

We rarely employ graduates because they have virtually no work ethic. This I think is a fine case in point.

I tried to sign on once, couldn't be arsed with the paperwork and just got a job.

oh, I forgot to add, the dole is a safety net, you are playing within the rules but hardly by the spirit of them. It is supposed to protect the weakest and most vulnerable, not prop up lazy arsed bastards who have only just finished 15 years of mostly free education.

God I feel old.

oh, I forgot to add, the dole is a safety net, you are playing within the rules but hardly by the spirit of them. It is supposed to protect the weakest and most vulnerable, not prop up lazy arsed bastards who have only just finished 15 years of mostly free education.

+ many

Going on the dole is sponging

Dole is not "supporting" citizens - it's giving a crutch to those who can't be ar5ed to find a job 99% of the time.

It's made up actually. And I forgot to answer your question - sorry.

And if you equate using the NHS, transport systems, etc as the same as claiming dole, you really aren't very bright.

I'll make sure I pay you more attention next time - I know you love to pick up on any point of mine you can and try and throw it back at me. A little alarming but flattering I guess.

I own "xxx"

Hmm!

I don't think there's a binary right/wrong answer here, everyone's situation differs. There are a hell of a lot of people sponging still, it seems to be a bit of a consumer culture thing.

I don't think we've quite modernised as a country from a huge chunk of our industry shooting off to Asia, now that shipping things around has become such big business. Obviously every raw material, and secondary manufacturing industry fell apart, not that long ago either.

Having worked for +25 years, and for the majority of those years paying 50% tax (income + NI), I think that I am 'entitled' to whatever benefits/tax credits the system has decided I am eligible for.

Its the system that splits income into tax-years, and consequently if I earn £100k in one year and then £10k in the next - I'm pay nearly £50k in year one and then are given £5k back in year two. I'm not 'scrounging', just following the rules.

if you equate using the NHS, transport systems, etc as the same as claiming dole, you really aren't very bright.

So Brain of Britain, tell us what is the difference between claiming dole and claiming treatment from the NHS is ?

I am not very bright and I have come to the conclusion there is very little difference. People contribute to a kitty as it were, and then if necessary, rely on receiving something back from it. Obviously the amount individuals contribute and receive in return varies between individuals, but that applies in both cases.

Needless to say I have got all that wrong because I'm not very bright, so put me straight Surf-Mat.

+ many

does that make me awesome too? 😉

It should be means tested IMO. There's a real difference between unemployed and long term unemployed. If someones employment history shows that they've not worked in 10 or 15 years then it should be a community improvement program to do the works that nobodys currently doing within communities and only if they work do they get any benefits. We can't be scared to with-hold funds just because we're concerned that some scumbags will begin robbing everyone. In any society, it will only be as successful as the productivity of the people allow (socialism, communism, capitalism etc). Lazy b@stards (and I'm not saying that all unemployed people are lazy) contribute nothing and we all know that money could be well spent in the health and education sectors.

People seem to be justifying their own personal experiences as evidence that the dole system is solid. Regardless, there are a lot of people, who have made a concerted effort to avoid work for their entire lives, as it's currently a viable way to live in it's own right.

It's fine as a fallback system for when jobs are tight, there will always be millions of people using the system, which is fine. There's definitely a culture of abusing the system though. I'd quite like to take every second week off to sit around and get drunk, if everyone here could get together and arrange a fund for me that'd be great, cheers.

oh, I forgot to add, the dole is a safety net, you are playing within the rules but hardly by the spirit of them. It is supposed to protect the weakest and most vulnerable, not prop up lazy arsed bastards who have only just finished 15 years of mostly free education.

God I feel old.

Speak for yourself, I came out of education (having worked throughout my degree) with 15k of debt. If you didn't then I suspect I will be paying increasing taxes whilst you're retired benefiting from the sub prime mortgage you took out against the welfare and future of your children.

We rarely employ graduates because they have virtually no work ethic. This I think is a fine case in point.

I tried to sign on once, couldn't be arsed with the paperwork and just got a job.

I'm not sure someone saying they were on the dole for 2 months after doing a degree and masters and then worked full time for another 5 years really equates to having 'no work ethic'.

As far as the paperwork goes, perhaps you could get a graduate to help you with that next time? I'm sure they can explain it too you.

PS. What *is* the difference between claiming on the NHS and claiming on the dole? They're both an insurance system paid for by society for when people fall on hard times.

I tried to sign on once, couldn't be arsed with the paperwork and just got a job.

I'm guessing you couldn't be arsed to read Ewans post about how he spent his time getting a job and working for a charity, rather than being lazy. It makes total sense to put full time effort into finding a suitable job, rather than taking the first thing that appears.

Society is not served especially well by funding graduates and then failing to take advantage of their skills. Obviously plenty of graduates are relatively incapable and will set their sights lower given time. I struggle to believe that life on the dole is the endless party it's made out to be.

Speak for yourself, I came out of education (having worked throughout my degree) with 15k of debt. If you didn't then I suspect I will be paying increasing taxes whilst you're retired benefiting from the sub prime mortgage you took out against the welfare and future of your children.

What does this mean? If he didn't get £15K of debt, he's not contributed?
How will he benefit from a sub prime mortgage? and how is it against the welfare of his children?