[Closed] Dogging. Should we?

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No. One dog should not be left alone 8/9 hours per day 5 days a week. Neither should 2.

/Thread

I'm no expert but don't collies need shedloads of exercise/stimulation?

Border collies should not be left alone for long periods of time. If you’re leaving your home then your collie should have someone visit them if you’re gone for more than a few hours. Unlike other breeds, collies can develop isolation distress and separation anxiety easily.

https://thepuppymag.com/can-you-leave-a-border-collie-home-alone/

I don't want to turn this into a pile-on but I find it a bit depressing how everyone seems to be getting a dog to cope with lockdown, there's already loads of them (and their crap) everywhere.

Dogs are social animals and we always have had 2 at a time, but we had problem with 2 dogs that didn't get on once they reached puberty - had to rehome one, so you might want to think about boy/girl or girl/girl rather than dog/dog if going for two.

Most of the border collies I've encountered (lots of working sheepdogs in these parts) are pretty 'wired' so leaving one for a long time might result in unwanted behaviour.

That's a no from me, even for adult dogs thayd be a no.

But even more of a no as theyd be pups, they're a huge amount of work for the first 1-2 years depending on breed and temperament.

Pretty much everyone I know who took on a puppy underestimated the task. And that includes people that have had them before. Somehow you forget.

I wouldn't get two from the same litter. Litter mate syndrome can be awful for one of the dogs, the less dominant one.

If you cannot give them the time, don't get one. End of.

Collies can become pretty neurotic and destructive. I’d say that is way too long to be left alone and the space wouldn’t make up for it.

maybe for an older more settled dog but a puppy? No chance.

No, No, No. Not because of one sole thing but because of all of them. First time dog owner, collie, NO! I'd actively avoid you on a walk because your dog would be the dog that attacks mine because your dog has a ball and anything that comes near it is apparently the devil incarnate. Two siblings? Only if you have a LOT of time to spend with them separately as well as together, otherwise generally speaking their bond will be so great that they can't ever be parted. Leave a dog home alone while you're at work, yeah sure if you dog is the laziest thing in the world who you need a crow bar to get off the bed, that dog is not now nor ever will be a collie. Leave the dog at home all day while you're at work, sure if she's now 10 and wants to do nothing but sleep sure, a puppy? NO!

A *collie*? Left to its own devices for 8h a day?
Sorry *two* collies you say?
And these would be the first dogs you have as adults?
And you've not had collies before?

Well... Minister.... That could be considered bold, may, courageous...

Collies are clinically insane...

Collies are a tool think chainsaw on legs....

Not a pet.

Anyway, can we go back to the title, I thought this was going to be a thread about alternative activities to night riding up round Rivington Old Barn...

More practically I'd say wait a year for the dog craze to die down and get one middle aged rescue dog of a low energy breed.

If that goes ok work your way up.

It's a horrible feeling if you find out you aren't the right home for a dog and they have to be rehomed, worse still if the bad fit messed them up so now they're *harder* to re-home. It's worth a bit of caution not to go through that. That's where I'm coming from.

Happened to a close relative who wasn't a bad person, just didn't appreciate (or listen to people who said) that not all dogs had the same needs and personality of his first, lovely easy, dog. He was so upset.

I don't normally dive in on these things, but I'd strongly advise you not to get two at the same time. We had a springer for ~ 12 years (the eponymous Tilly). A year, or so after she died, we decided to get another (pre Covid) and swept away by the excitement of it all, got two springer bitches from the same litter - because "they'll be company for each other"... It may even have been my idea, but OMG! the effort needed was insanely more than one pup! Yes, they have each other for company which means they don't need you which complicates training massively - they need to be trained separately which means double the time. They're just over a year old now and have settled into a decent routine. We are fortunate that they get on with each other, but have heard lots of horror stories of dominance and/or jealousy between litter mates.

I think collies have similar needs to springers, but that they (collies) are probably more intelligent and require even more mental stimulation. The thought of leaving one alone for 8-9 hours a day is not good. You will literally drive it insane. A collie isn't the right dog.

Sorry for the negative response!

(ETA: I was brought up on a farm and we had various collies - I love them, and would have one tomorrow *IF* I had the time to spend with it. They are lovely dogs - Springers are too, but they are just bonkers).

We have a 1 year border collie and won't leave her for more that a couple of hours and don't do that if we can help it.
She needs mental stimulation or she gets bored and there's a noticeable deterioration in her behaviour if she's been in her crate on her own too long.
She was hard work as a pup, wired to the moon, either flat out or passed out.
There was no way we could have left her for 8 hours at a time.

I come from a farm, we’ve always had collies (and a couple of springers)
I love collies, and I’d advise against it.
You can’t leave them all day, they’ll go nuts.
An old farmer near us had 2 collies that were tied up in the yard and never really stimulated much, when the old boy died the police had to be called and they ended up being shot as nobody could get near them.
Don’t do it, it’s actually cruel.
Sorry, I don’t mean to piss on your chips, but what you’re thinking about will be horrible for the pups AND you.

girl/girl

This can be more violent than boy/boy. Some breeds the bitches don't start a ruck with a warm-up barking and growling session. It goes from zero to blood in complete silence, until the yelping starts.

How about a couple of beagles? 😈

(Seriously, don't do that either).

Well it's a sad state of affairs when everyone is in accordance, so I'll say shit yeah - go for it. What's the worst that could happen? And keep us up to date with cute puppy pictures when they arrive.

Collie owner here. This breed is about the least tolerant of being left alone. Sounds like the wrong dog(s) for you, even with the companionship and land. I think you'll end up with two unhappy dogs.

Your plan is not even close to being okay.

I've had collies all my life.
No way would I leave 1 nevermind 2 all day even outside.
I've had working,ex working and non working dogs all of then would be nervous wrecks after 6 week's.
They need work and hunt/hide tasks even my 10year old collie/cross turns to a complete dick if left all day and she enjoys her own company a lot now.
Sorry not want you want hear.

Edit they can be nasty buggers at times too my current one is a rescue and has no love for other dogs unless springers or collies. It's a real shame that she ended up like that but it's down to the original family that had her don't let that be your dog's getting put out to rescue.

Sounds like you will be moving into an amazing place.

Is there no way you can work from home? Our dog is 5 years old now, and the longest she's been left alone is 3 hours (maybe 5 times). Life is easier now I wfh, but I'd hate the thought of leaving her for a long time.

Unless your lifestyle or work can adapt, I'd hold off getting a dog.

Thought it was going to be the Toyah and Fripp thread 🤮

No, I did!

I’ve had 2 collies now and 1 terrier. No way would I have left them alone for 8-9 hours. On the odd occasion we did head off without them we’d either get someone to have them or at the very least walk them at either end of the day and pop in a few times to let them out for a pee and a play.

The only time they were ok with long absences like that was when they were almost dead and slept most of the time!

Wonder if the OP will come back!

I bet he does, and goes ahead anyway.

Free Member
Wonder if the OP will come back!

They'll be back in 8 or 9 hours.

I’ll add to the chorus of no.
I’ve got two border collies. Brothers. The litter mate thing isn’t always an issue, although it definitely can be. Our two get on just fine, but we made sure that we split them up quite often when they were younger.
But alone for that length of time. Are you mad? When we got our two, I worked shifts & my wife worked part-time, and we are now both retired, but even then we needed an assortment of dog walkers & day care to make sure they were not alone for too long. Two hours max & that wasn’t even most days. You cannot leave young collies to their own devices for any significant length of time. Collies are fantastic dogs, but what you are proposing is selfish and cruel. Please don’t give in to your wife. This is a thoroughly bad idea.

Sounds like what you want there is a cat.

I wouldn’t leave any dog/s alone all day.

A Cat would be "have you not ****ed off yet i need to get on with clawing the sofa and pissing on your bed"

Get a cat. As you are a first time dog owner this is a seriously bad idea. Your home is going to get trashed with leaving Collie pups for that amount of time alone.

Collies are working dogs, you either put them to work or they will find a job (usually by destroying your house). We can only leave our 2.5 year old GSP for 4 hours maximum, any longer and it would be a) unfair, and b) absolute carnage. Rocket is pretty lazy and chilled for a GSP but still bonkers and in need of stimulation when he can be bothered to climb off the sofa. If we have to go out for the day with out him we book him into the local daycare which he loves.

Some folk can't wait to pile in, haven't even read it properly.
He's got a bloody cat.

Some folk can’t wait to pile in, haven’t even read it properly.
He’s got a bloody cat.

He needs a second cat to keep the first one happy then!

Anyway......how many sausages for 2acres? Whats the ideal ratio?

I think the cat comment was designed to show just how far away a collie or two collies are from being a suitable pet for the OP.
Sorry to say, OP, but this should never even have been a consideration.
If your stepmum knew anything about collies, she wouldn't even dream about selling/giving one or two to you in your situation.
You may want to suggest that she has her bitch spayed and that she ceases all breeding until, at the very least, she has a decent knowledge of dogs and collies in particular, but preferably forever.

I was a 1st time dog owner when we got ours 3 years ago (wife had them growing up) and they are SO much work for that 1st year - and ours is a fairly chilled out breed. We don't have kids so can't compare, but we know people who do who've said they're more work than a baby for the first few months. TBH I probably wouldn't want to get a puppy again unless one of us had a substantial amount of time off work - the reason they're so cute is cos they'd never survive being that much of a dickhead if they looked like a toad!

I can only imagine the amount of work would be higher for 2 puppies, and Collies are probably the breed that need the highest workload. The advice we had was also not to get 2 from the same litter as it can cause issues training them. In terms of time left alone, 8-9 hours would be a no-no with any breed, let alone a Collie. The most we'd leave ours for would be ~6 hrs, and only on the occasional day.

I think this is a very bad plan. I know STW can sometimes be a negative, moany place, but I think everyone on this thread is just being realistic.

As above, it would be cruel to leave working dogs alone all day.

As above, a cat. If you have that much space keeping chickens and or ducks could be fun. They're actually pretty interesting and you'd be able to give them a brilliant home.

As others have said, you cannot leave dogs for 9 hours. What is the plan if they don't cope with it?
Can you switch to working at home, would you just leave them to suffer, would you add them to the pile of dogs looking for rehoming?

We've been wanting a dog for a few years but have held off because both my wife and I work. We did't see the point in getting a dog only to leave it alone for most of the day or to fob it off to a dog walker every day or have to drive home during lunchtime to let the dogs out to do their business. Now it has been confirmed for both of us that we'll never return full time to the office even after COVID we're finally biting the bullet.

Unfortunately even if you want a dog you need to first ask yourself 'should' you have a dog. Its a lifestyle thing and everyone I know who's had a dog have all said that they are a significant commitment and change your life.

You ought to think of a dog as a bit like a toddler. Whenever you are thinking of doing something, think of whether you’d do it if you had one of them instead of the dog.
A dog shouldn’t be something that fits in with your life, you have to fit in with its requirements. If you can’t do that you’re not in a position to own one.

It’s great to see for once that on a dog related STW thread everyone is in accord.

We have a Springer x Lab who is 14 and a Pomeranian who is 3. The longest they get left for is around 3 hours. On the occasions that my wife and I are both working we use a combination of dog Walker, dog sitter or parents depending on how long we will both be out of the house for.
If my wife is working late/twilight/nights I won’t go out in the evening unless I’ve been at home all day and if so, only for an hour or two tops.

When we first got the SxL, nearly 14 years ago, I was able to have him at work with me all the time. Had that not been the case we wouldn’t have got him. 7 years ago I changed jobs and one of our considerations was what it meant for him and as a result my wife dropped a shift so his time alone was limited.

I’d like to chip in again about the pitfalls of getting a puppy because you might decide you can work from home so it’ll be okay like almost everyone thinks. You’ll have to have a massively understanding company to get an ok behaved dog because out of three hours time they’ll only get one hours work from you. Two hours awake and one hours sleep, then repeat! And you’ll be tired from the disturbed sleep too. I’m not saying ziva is perfect, sight hound and sheep, but she is 40kgs and a 90 year old could walk her and I regularly get comments on her behaviour and there’s no way I could of worked. Any walk of any length took forever because of stopping to correct her walking. I’d advise caution!

I'd like to chip in and say... can I have one of the puppies please? its so boring wffh

Just read the whole thread as we are thinking of getting a dog. We have held off for a few years as we couldn't commit the time and there was no way we would leave one for any amount time on its own. I can take to work and as I only work alternate weeks will have time to spend walking, and hopefully riding with it. My wife has cut her hours and I cant see the dog been left on its own at all. So......anyone got an Australian Kelpie, basically an Aussie sheep/cattle herding dog.

We have 2 female collie puppies, we have always had collies, the most recent two, have dug up a tree for me, turned all the grass to mud by running round after each other all day.

They get 3 session out a day where we go to a local field with a ball and run them ragged for about an hour, by we get home they are ready to go again.

Also with 2 you have to pick up the double the amount of poop, however they are very loving, very soft, very clever but also daft.

IF we go out for a few hours, we have a little wager on what we will find when we get in.

We’ve not had dogs before (well, the wife had 2 whippets when she was a kid) and we currently have one cat who is fairly chilled and would probably cope just fine with dogs around

Erm.

It quite possibly wouldn't.

I wouldn't want to find out 8 hours later.

I think the thing is, if you have to ask if a pair of puppies of the highest energy breed dogs around is a good idea for a first time dog owner, then you currently are just not in the right place for those dogs.

I wouldn't touch collies with a bargepole, nor would my wife, she's had dogs all her life, I'm a newcomer with only 12 years on the clock. They need a full time job and we couldn't give them one.

anyone got an Australian Kelpie

They can bark. A lot. Loudly.

Aside from the fact a dog should never be left for 8/9 hours a day (although employing a good dog walker could help with that), two pups for company doesn't always work as intended. I've got a dog and a bitch (same breed/different breeders) and at times they can be friends. Other times they barely tolerate each other, and occasionally just avoid each other. It's never a given that they will get on.

I've no experience of Collies, but my ex has just got a Collie/lab rescue pup and its energy levels are off the scale.

Given all of the above, will one Collie be o.k home alone for 8- 9 hrs 5 days a week?

No dog should be left alone for that time, it’s cruel. Collies especially need loads of exercise but it would be cruel for any dog.

You ought to think of a dog as a bit like a toddler. Whenever you are thinking of doing something, think of whether you’d do it if you had one of them instead of the dog.
A dog shouldn’t be something that fits in with your life, you have to fit in with its requirements. If you can’t do that you’re not in a position to own one.

Probably the wisest thing said about dog ownership.

We've got a Colliewobble.
It's made out of a Border Collie and a Standard Poodle.
It's a mentalist.
I wouldn't leave a fish for 9 hours never mind a dog.

Oh yeah the digging forgot about that too.
Will happily make a dog cave under anything and would sleep in it if my wife let her.

I wonder if this thread is turning out how the OP expected? They've been awfully quiet since.

My ex pushed for years for a kitten. I resisted, much as I love cats, because it'd be home on its own all day and it wouldn't be fair. That's an animal which is nominally less self-sufficient than a goldfish. Dogs are inherently needy, and collies tend towards the top of the "high maintenance" scale of dogs.

Read the thread.... agree with everything other than the single "go for it" comment!

Only two things I'll add:
My family have been around dogs our entire lives and never had an issue with other dogs other than one time that my daughter was bitten by a dog whilst it was on a lead in public - it was a collie.

To those thinking of getting two dogs from the same litter - my sister did this and all that happens is that one will try it impose dominance over the other and you'll eventually end up with two old dogs.
Better to have a few years between them.

OP.... sorry, don't do it - but you know that by now!

I think the OP asked a genuine question in all innocence and it turned out to be like one of those times you were having a routine appointment at the GP and said, "Oh, the OH said I should ask you about this..." and a week later, you're still in hospital and haven't been home since the words left your mouth and there are stitches and a bucket load of drugs...

And they got sensible answers.

Possibly not the answer they wanted though.

re: the two dogs thing, we took our second dog for a week long test drive to make sure she got on with the incumbent. Turned out fine - but could easily have gone the other way.

I like the sound of a collie. Not necessarily to own/live with though. If they were human they would be your manic mate with a crazy Facebook feed of daring do and that was always getting you into trouble.

I do fancy a dog but I know my life is not right at the moment to do a proper job of giving it a good life. Someone needs to invent a better game than fetch a ball/stick though - that looks like it could get very old very fast as the human launch operator.

I'll just add a no. Just in case the op hasn't got the message. 😉

Never leave any dog 8 or 9 hours.

Especially not a Collie.

I've had dogs 18 years and had a springer from a pup who's now 6. Puppies are massive amount more work than any rescue we've had.

Collies are working dogs.

Don't do it.

stripeysocks
I think the OP asked a genuine question in all innocence

Could be he knew what the response needed to be, needed some back up and wrote it with an innocent voice so he couldn't be accused of leading people responding.

I wish I could bring myself to get a collie. I grew up with one who was bought to work on the farm but instantly became part of the family by being the friendliest dog I have ever met. She was perfectly fine being left all day (normally in a stable) on summer days when dad was away harvesting, but equally the rest of the time she had plenty of engagement by being an actual sheep dog, so maybe that provided the balance a lot of them miss.

That being said she was at least 6 before she would stand still long enough to be petted and that was even with a few hours a day of chasing a quad bike followed by me and my brother playing with her inside all night.

If anyone can suggest a dog that replicates the collie experience but is compatible with life in a town I am all ears!

Someone needs to invent a better game than fetch a ball/stick though – that looks like it could get very old very fast as the human launch operator.

I stayed at a hut in the mountains a few years ago, the owners had a retired avalanche rescue dog . They introduced him saying "Feel free to throw him a stick, but be aware you'll be entering into a contract, so you'd better not have any other plans!"

Just to add my two penn'orth, as a lifetime dog owner I am in complete agreement with everything written above. To wit, puppies need a huge amount of attention and care, 2 x puppies even more so. And by puppies I'm referring to dogs up to 2 years of age.

In addition Collies require even more attention and care, as written above they are wonderful dogs but are extremely high maintenance.

Your idea sounds like a recipe for disaster and if you were to approach a responsible dog breeder with your idea, they would reject you out of hand. I should add that a dog breeder of any breed - let alone collies - would reject you for even a single puppy, let alone for two.

I suggest you think again

getting litter siblings is a mistake even for experienced owners, you really have to know what you are doing. Getting a collie as a first time dog isnt a great idea. Getting a collie and leaving it for 8 hours a day really is a bad idea. Getting two collies, alone for 8 hours a day, first time owners is a recipe for disaster. for the sake of the dogs please don't. if you really want a dog, get a rescue greyhound as all my mates one wants to do is sleep upside down on his bed.

if you really want a dog, get a rescue greyhound as all my mates one wants to do is sleep upside down on his bed.

This

Sight hounds (greyhounds, whippets, lurcher etc) make much better laid back pets. 45mins of exercise twice a day and they'll pretty much sleep for the rest of the day. Still wouldn't want to get one from puppy, but an older rescue would make a bit more sense (caveat, not if you have kids, especially younger ones, as running dogs can be a bit nervous and jumpy)

If anyone can suggest a dog that replicates the collie experience but is compatible with life in a town I am all ears!

Mmmm, OK for town living, bites a lot. Errr, hamster?

45mins of exercise twice a day and they’ll pretty much sleep for the rest of the day.

OT but I wonder what proportion of owners actually exercise their dogs enough? Or even at all, through a wet winter?

I do. Whatever the weather, day I've had, illness or what, my dogs go out twice a day. Whether they want to our not! I have a massive pile of stinky muddy towels at the end of each week at the moment.

if you really want a dog, get a rescue greyhound as all my mates one wants to do is sleep upside down on his bed.

This.

We have two longdogs (Grey x Saluki, Grey x Whippet). Make brilliant pets.

Need a LOT of recall training though. Chasing after one that's seen a rabbit, is, how to put it, a frivolous exercise. In all other ways they're very easy pets to own.

The older one (she's six) CBA after just one walk, doubly so if she's run off lead for five minutes. The other will go out a couple of times quite happily.

OT but I wonder what proportion of owners actually exercise their dogs enough? Or even at all, through a wet winter?

Don't get me started.

Most dog owners should have bought a cat.

Too many many nay sayers here for me.

Most dog owners should have bought a cat.

anyone want mine? he's only awake about 45 mins a day and still manages to be a **** in that time?

Our collie lab currently sleeps for about 6 -8 hours of each day, still enjoys two walks everyday although she trundles around lagging behind, she is nearly 15, take her to the woods let her off and she is still like a much younger dog, even after a cruciate rebuild. Rewind to when she was a puppy, nuts absolutely nuts, then from about 2-10 years old she would run alongside the MTB for 16-20 km, get home sleep until anyone picked up the lead and happily go out again, whether the time gap was minutes or hours. Enjoys mind games, finding things etc. 2xcollie pups I'm not sure there is enough waking hours in a day to do them justice.

If your stepmum knew anything about collies, she wouldn’t even dream about selling/giving one or two to you in your situation.
You may want to suggest that she has her bitch spayed and that she ceases all breeding until, at the very least, she has a decent knowledge of dogs and collies in particular, but preferably forever.

That's a bit harsh - we don't even know that stepmum knows about crazy idea... if she was thinking about giving away two pups at the moment she's a very generous stepmum! I'm looking forward to part 2 - where he's stuck in a fight between step mum and wife - either because SM wants £5k from them or SM refuses to sell them a pup!

Just because noone has said it yet:
OP should go ahead and get the dogs. But he should also get a hill farm and a couple of hundred sheep so he can work the dogs in the way they require to keep them mentally and physically fit.

@ poly
That's true, we don't know.
Bit odd though, I mean if OP has a good enough relationship/is in enough contact with his SM to know her bitch has had pups, surely he could ask her advice on the question he posted on here.
I agree with whoever said he is trying to get opinions to make the gf see sense (or words to that effect).
Doesn't make sense otherwise.

No OP. Bad boy!

Also No-one has picked up on 'should have moved to a 2 acre property by the time pups are ready' so no guarantee they will even have the lovely big garden if move falls through.

Maybe the whole thing was just a weird humblebrag about his massive new garden?

If ever there was a screaming NO to any question asked on here, this is it.

Please re-consider taking on even 1 collie, or any dog at all actually given your circumstances, let alone 2 of the most high-performance and demanding breed on the planet.

Maybe the whole thing was just a weird humblebrag about his massive new garden?

Or awesome troll.

/ goes off to check Snowheads for threads about huge chalet gardens....

what proportion of owners actually exercise their dogs enough? Or even at all, through a wet winter?

You'll know the house even without the dog using the traditional muzzle to crotch greeting. There will be a stack of muddy footwear by the front door. Coats may also be drying on radiators and the smell of damp dog will permeate the place.

Ours likes to swim in the deep puddles on the nearby reclaimed landfill rec. Even if it's -5C he likes a swim, keeping his weight up is proving difficult as a result!

EDIT @rsl1 Dalmatian, ours is like the batteries have been taken out after 2 hours of daytime walks (13 month puppy). We're town based with reasonable access to parks and countryside too.