[Closed] Dog held on death row with no exercise

etmetalktomark

Jimjam - put down the keyboard and get back to your DailyMail

Oh feisty, I like that in a woman. Is it Dailymailesque (yes it's a word I just made up) to wonder at the motivations of someone who has 46 criminal convictions, 17 for drugs, for having such a dog? Could it be that these dogs have characteristics (other than being fabulous baby sitters) which might make them attractive to drug dealers and scum bags?

hammyuk

Total contradiction in the reports - In every single report they state that they seized the dog after attending the house on a different matter - yet jimjam finds the ONLY link that states they arrested him for cannabis after attending the house about reports of his dog?
What a crock of shit.

Are you suggesting I fabricated that website? 😆

I like that in a woman

Swoon .....

[img] [/img]

I'm not into Daily Mail readers though.

Next.

Just 2 years ?
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/19/albert-woodfox-released-louisiana-jail-43-years-solitary-confinement

Fwiw both the dog and the human were mistreated

Total contradiction in the reports - In every single report they state that they seized the dog after attending the house on a different matter - yet jimjam finds the ONLY link that states they arrested him for cannabis after attending the house about reports of his dog?

Not necessarily a contradiction.

e.g. Known drug dealer/scally/ne'er-do-well, but insufficient evidence for a search warrant -

"He's got a "pit bull type" dog"

"That'll do! In the van, lads."

Looks much more like a staffie to me, anyway. Long legged staffie, bit still.

"He's got a "pit bull type" dog"

"That'll do! In the van, lads."

Looks much more like a staffie to me, anyway. Long legged staffie, bit still.

Thing is though, even if seizing the dog was the right thing to do, which it sounds like it was, and even if putting it down is the right thing to do, which it might well be, and even if the process was drawn out unavoidably which it seems is the case... It's no way to keep a dog. Even if you disregard everything else, that's a constant, the poor bugger should have been looked after.

The whole "pit bull type dog" thing is a terrible piece of lawmaking.

From [i]hammyuk[/i]:

Every expert has stated the dog has been fine - only the police have stated it showed aggression.
The staff and owners of the private kennel the police use have stated the dog showed no aggression.

From [i]The Guardian[/i]:

The force insisted that the assessment remained under constant review and further examinations had been made by independent experts, including the RSPCA and the managers of the kennel where Stella was kept, who agreed with the decision.

The dog also attempted to bite a court-appointed independent expert during its assessment.

In the end, the problem the police have is that if they told the kennel staff that they had to exercise these dogs, and then one of the staff got attacked, they'd be in trouble for that too. I'd much rather that they protect the right of the staff not to be attacked, than the right of the dog to be exercised.

Maybe we could build a specialist dangerous dogs kennel that could take all the confiscated dogs from around the UK and that would have a system of cages allowing some sort of 'run' so that dogs can be exercised without human contact, but with current cutbacks I can't see who would be likely to pay for it.

Why didn't they get the owner to come and exercise it?

Well they're paying for a [b][i]PRIVATE[/i][/b] kennel to house the dogs they confiscate now so the funding is there!

Strange the owners and staff have stated in reports that they saw no aggression from the dog.
The worker who broke the story on her Facebook stated that.
The Vet of 30yrs who is also the behavioural specialist stated she wasn't aggressive and their treatment went against every rule and guideline.
The only aggression that was apparently shown was to "two PCSO's" - it doesn't state when, where or why.
In fact there's no other mention of it in any other report anywhere.

Are you surprised that the force "insisted that the assessment remained under constant review and further examinations had been made by independent experts, including the RSPCA and the managers of the kennel where Stella was kept, who agreed with the decision."

I'm not - they're hardly likely to come out and go "we didn't like the look of him and we'd tried to have him over on a few occasions so we took his dog... it got a little pissed off we us as we didn't let it out so we locked it back up"

"The dog also attempted to bite a court-appointed independent expert during its assessment."
I'm fairly sure a sodding Yorkie would be fairly pissed off being locked up for 2yrs and not be very happy to see said assessor.
In fact - take any dog from any owner off here, cage it for 2yrs without it so much as having a chance to walk and see how "angry" it gets.
Nature/Nurture - reacting to her environment.

In the end, the problem the police have is that if they told the kennel staff that they had to exercise these dogs, and then one of the staff got attacked, they'd be in trouble for that too.

I'm fairly sure a sodding Yorkie would be fairly pissed off being locked up for 2yrs ...
In fact - take any dog from any owner off here, cage it for 2yrs without it so much as having a chance to walk and see how "angry" it gets.

Angry dog, probably best not to let it out of a cage then.

As far as I can tell it was only the kennel assistant who said the dog wasn't aggressive. Can you point me towards a statement from the kennel owners? I haven't seen one anywhere, apart from the police statement that the kennel owners agreed with the policy of not interacting with dangerous dogs. Equally, I haven't seen anything suggesting that the "vet of 30yrs" has ever met the dog, she appears to be commenting abstractly on the report?

And as for funding, yes there may be the money to put dogs into private boarding kennels, but that doesn't mean that there is necessarily the right funding or organisation to develop a properly equipped kennel designed for dangerous dogs and staffed by professional animal handlers. Police policy is to return dogs to owners wherever it is possible without increased risk to public safety because it is such a drain on resources to keep them.

Pleader - she is one of the Vets who that force(and many others) use for assessments involving The Dogs Act 1871, and Sections 1 and 3 of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 as well as the Animal Welfare Act 2006.
Also instructed as an Expert Witness in cases under said acts.
She's spoken out against someone who pays her wages so I doubt she did that lightly - same as the kennels owners.

Yes, but did she actually assess that particular dog? I can't see any evidence of that? Equally, still can't find anything from the kennel owners stating that it wasn't aggressive? All we seem to have on that front is kennel assistant vs. police report (which cites RSPCA & kennel owners as agreeing with policy of isolating dangerous dogs, and 'independent experts' as agreeing dog was aggressive/potentially dangerous).

I agree that conditions that the dog was kept in were far from ideal, but it's difficult to see what alternatives there are without building some sort of specialised facility. I don't know if anywhere exists that is set up to handle dogs like these?

Personally I just think this is an odd outlier case, where normally sensible rules just haven't worked for various reasons. Would you walk a potentially dangerous dog? But likewise the courts shouldn't have taken so long to come to this conclusion.

Probably Would have been far better for everyone if it just had been put down from the word go, clearly the owner wasn't fit to own a dog, and it's hardly like the UK is short of these dogs sitting in rescue homes.

This one and numerous others over the years apparently - hence her speaking out about it and potentially knackering her work prospects 😯
Would you open your mouth about it to the press if there was no basis to it?
I know I wouldn't jeopardise paying my mortgage if I couldn't back it up.

There are some right bell ends on this forum!

This one and numerous others over the years apparently - hence her speaking out about it and potentially knackering her work prospects
Would you open your mouth about it to the press if there was no basis to it?
I know I wouldn't jeopardise paying my mortgage if I couldn't back it up.

I still haven't found anything that she has said about the behaviour of this dog at all? All I can find is one quote in the BBC report that appears to be about the kennelling system in general?

hammyuk - Member

Pleader - she is one of the Vets who that force(and many others) use for assessments ....
Also instructed as an Expert Witness in cases under said acts.
She's spoken out against someone who pays her wages so I doubt she did that lightly - same as the kennels owners.

Is there a reference for that, all the reports I've seen say she was an assistant, part time and in one or two it was in the past tense implying she was not still employed there

The thing is, there are no records of this dog ever having bitten anyone (before being ceased)

I don't think it's been ceased yet, that's what all the court hearings are about.

I think you'll find it has been both seized & ceased, its the lack of exercise between the two that people are getting all hot under the collar about

big yim - Member

Jambalaya if the police dont look after the dog then whats the alternative suggestion ?

Give it to the Vietnamese or mainland Chinese? 😮

Disgusting abominable behaviour by the police force in question, there was no need to act so black/white with such a case.

My mate had an American Pit-Bull and it was the sweetest most amiable dog you could ever hope to meet which was astonishing considering the background as to how he came to own it. It belonged to a group of Irish pikeys/so called travellers who ran an underground dog fighting scene in County Amagh - the police knew about it but they did nothing/weren't interested in dealing with them, he found the dog dumped on a back road nr to his farm and it was barely alive but still whimpering, the front bite of his lower jaw and most of his tongue was missing and his ears were just rags, there was a huge chunk missing from his rear end and he was covered in lacerations so he laid him on a sack and took it to his vets where he spent the best part of two months getting treatment which involved removing the damaged parts of his lower jaw, the ears were trimmed right back to the skull and his rear quarter was dealt with as best as possible but he eventually lost a rear leg. It cost my mate thousands in vets bills yet he persevered against advice from everyone at the time but he was determined to at least try.

Just as well he did as "franki" (yeah….that was his name aka frankenstein 😀 ) turned out to be the most loving and happy dog you could ever hope to meet despite having a permananlty goofy overbite grin and only 3 legs, when the farm cat disappeared franki looked after the kittens and would carry them in his gummy mouth and they absolutely adored him yet kittens being kittens would gang up and bully him into submission on his back, same with the new born lambs as the ewes were so used to franki that they let him nuzzle and play in the pens with them - he absolutely loved my mate and anyone who he met and would lie on the windowsill all day waiting on him coming home. He still had the massive muscly chest and build of a Pit-Bull so he could look pretty fierce when he hopped up to you with teeth showing but you quickly realised it was a smile because of his missing jaw.

He unfortunately had quite a severe stroke back in 2008 so had to be put down but it proves that not all dogs are beyond help or redemption from such a vicious upbringing.

Do you not see any hypocrisy in accusing a police force of "disgusting abominable behaviour" in the face of fairly limited information, before accusing them of being too black and white in their thinking? I wouldn't say that your statement allows for many shades of grey either.