[Closed] Do you jump red lights...?

I RLJ in both my car and on my bike. I just do it in slightly different ways.

The way I do it in the car is far more dangerous although I doubt anyone would even notice I was doing it.

Sometimes ..more likely to do it in a car than on a bike TBH

I treat jumping red lights like the "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" observation.

this sounds familiar...

conversely, there's at least 1 traffic light on my commute home that i will stop for at Green (i pull into a little side street), so that i can position myself nicely while the light is on red, and then proceed when the light turns green again.

it's a long junction, and uphill. it's a bit scary if i've gone through green, and the lights change when i'm halfway across.

I've yet to see a red light here, so couldn't jump one even if I wanted to..

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I waited for a minute at some last night, nothing changed so I went through.

A whole minute? Well I don't think anyone can question your patience 😀

No need for a steel bike BTW - I only own one of those and it gets ridden very rarely

Shame. Not fit enough to ride a proper bike? 😉

always stop, gives me the opportunity to show off my amazeballs trackstanding skills...

seriously though, if we expect to be recognised by motorists as having equal rights on the roads (which we do) we need to be seen to be observing the rules of the road. Don't give them the ammunition and they'll have nothing to throw at us.

Shame. Not fit enough to ride a proper bike?

Well it is a fixie, and the terrain round here (or more accurately the hill I live at the top of) doesn't make that the most suitable bike most of the time. Not really sure why I'm worried about the suitability of my transport choice though, given I spend more time on a uni than a bike nowadays!

He doesn't give a toss about the bike going through at red at 2mins 5secs (roughly), but quite happy to shake his head and note number plates at the cars.......he must be a hoot to be in the pub with "that is your third pint, are you going to operate any heavy machinery?".

Everyone has a choice, if cyclists want to flout the laws of the road then let them do it, no amount of debating will stop it, and if they get killed well then there is all the more road space for the rest of us. Yes everyone should be respectful of each other, but it doesn't matter whether people are behind a steering wheel or handlebars, there are plenty of dicks out there.

If I see a light changing, I just shut my eyes, floor it and start shouting out the window "I AM THE KNIGHT RIDER!!!!"

he must be a hoot to be in the pub with "that is your third pint, are you going to operate any heavy machinery?"

That's right - attack someone who is actively trying to do what he can about conditions on our roads, rather than just moaning about it on a forum during their coffee break. 🙄

if they get killed well then there is all the more road space for the rest of us.

Good point, well made 🙄

if we expect to be recognised by motorists as having equal rights on the roads (which we do) we need to be seen to be observing the rules of the road. Don't give them the ammunition and they'll have nothing to throw at us.

or perhaps motorists need to realise that , just like car drivers, some cyclists break the law but that is no reason to not treat them with the respect they need/deserve as vulnerable road users,

Good luck with that.

I've tried at various times to point out to such people that 99% of motorists (including me) will have broken the highway code (and the law) at least once on their journey.

Apparently [i]that's different[/i]. Usually due to something about "road tax", outdated laws, nitpicking, revenue generation or "war on the motorist".

if we expect to be recognised by motorists as having equal rights on the roads (which we do) we need to be seen to be observing the rules of the road. Don't give them the ammunition and they'll have nothing to throw at us.

I'm quite tired of seeing this argument. I don't break any rules, yet somehow i can't argue for better conditions because someone i've never met is acting like a dick on a bike somewhere?!

That's right - attack someone who is actively trying to do what he can about conditions on our roads, rather than just moaning about it on a forum during their coffee break.

Not attacking "him" for whatever he is trying to achieve, just pointing out that if you're going to go to the extent of sitting editing a video to point out peoples flouncing of laws, at least have the decency to make it a balanced argument.

After watching another of his video's, while I agree that the driving shown is appalling, he somehow waters down his own argument by indicating wht cyclists don't or are not expected to do/have as reasons not to drive too close. The overriding argument really is that the UK never invested in a cycle centric infrastructure making it safer for cyclists by getting them as far away from cars and trucks as possible - for examples look at San Francisco and Portland, even Edinburgh has marked paths (albeit not perfect) to navigate the city.

Good luck with that.

what do you think STW is if not training for arguing with irrational fools 😉

A very well written piece...

The argument about gaining respect etc, by obeying the rules is well rehearsed... For me, this was one of the most important bits:

Similarly, Cohen — quite rightly — saying that cyclists “are a third thing, a distinct mode of transportation, requiring different practices and different rules”. I wrote as much myself, in my unified theory of New York biking. But that theory was based on the idea that the tragedy of New York cycling is that everybody — pedestrians, drivers, and cyclists — [b]treat cyclists too much like pedestrians[/b]. Cohen, by contrast, says that “most of the resentment of rule-breaking riders like me, I suspect, derives from a false analogy: conceiving of bicycles as akin to cars”. I wish that New Yorkers would conceive of bicycles as akin to cars: pedestrians would look first before stepping out in front of us; cars would respect our right to be on the road; and fellow cyclists wouldn’t endanger everybody by riding the wrong way down the street.

I too want cyclists to be recognised as a component of the traffic - not as an adjunct to a pedestrian activity. We need to be seen as part of the traffic flow, and for other drivers behaviour, and more importantly, for road designers to incorporate our needs.

To me, this is the most annoying sign to be seen...
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This sign demotes cyclists from road users to pedestrians with an accompaniement

It demonstrates planners / designers utter disregard for cyclists as a mode of transport. Do we ask car drivers to get out an push their cars in to parking bays??? Because that is the equivalent 🙄

Do you jump red lights...?

Yes

what do you think STW is if not training for arguing with irrational fools

How ironic that you yourself make such a statement.

I'm quite tired of seeing this argument. I don't break any rules, yet somehow i can't argue for better conditions because someone i've never met is acting like a dick on a bike somewhere?!

But surely that's the way of the world? To judge the many for the actions of the few?

Anyone who says they have never jumped a red light is either lying or has never ever ridden a bike in a large town or city.

he somehow waters down his own argument by indicating wht cyclists don't or are not expected to do/have as reasons not to drive too close

Are you watching the same guy? CycleGaz? Who runs http://www.sillycyclists.co.uk/ which is solely dedicated to presenting videos of cyclists with terrible roadcraft as an example of what not to do.

I think he has a fair bit of balance. This particular video was just made as a reply to the "Cyclists Always Jump Red" charge.

To me, this is the most annoying sign to be seen...

I always take that sign as an admission by the road planner that he's rubbish at his job.

Mike you may disagree with me and miss the point of my demonstration of how insulting and antagonising does not help you win arguments with folks if you wish but everyone else got it. It was not personal and I am happy to apologise if you took it as such.

However it is a step further, and granted belittling and insulting folk seems to come as naturally to you as breathing [ so may bearing grudges???] , to suggest I am irrational because I disagree with you

PS the wink icon means it was a joke that probably did not deserve such deep analysis either laugh, chuckle , smile or ignore

i assume that sign means its time for a break in the nations fantastic cyclepaths and that for a short time only the cyclists should get off their bike and walk due to a narrow pavement.

if i'm on the road then it doesn't apply to me 😈

I dont jump lights - getting stopped at reds prevents me getting too serious about Strava results (thats my excuse and I'm sticking with it! 🙂 ). In response to the 'Cyclists Dismount' sign - there is one either side of a canal-side pub on my route. If I am passing during opening hours I ALWAYS dismount, If earlier/ later than opening hours I ride past slowly. a lot of these cycling specific signs don't make allowance for cyclist having common sense.

I'm quite tired of seeing this argument. I don't break any rules, yet somehow i can't argue for better conditions because someone i've never met is acting like a dick on a bike somewhere?!

I'm not saying you can't argue for better road conditions for cyclists, merely trying to get across that its difficult to be heard when large numbers of cyclists are disregarding the rules.

good for you for obeying the lights but from what I see on a daily basis we're in the minority.

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I always take that sign as an admission by the road planner that he's rubbish at his job.

Yep - it basically means "F*** it, I give up".

I particularly liked the sign at Newcastle Quayside the other day. [i]"NCN 72 Cycle Route Closed For Olympic Event - Follow Diversion"[/i] with the arrow taped over because they hadn't actually bothered to provide the diversion. What exactly was I supposed to do there?

(My answer: ignore it and cycle up the obviously empty quayside where no event was really taking place)

I struggle with long sentences, but for the record, no I don't.
regardless of whether it's safe or not, I think it's massively anti-social and gives other road users a big reason to hate us which causes problems when you're sharing the road with them.

I ride on a National cycleway to work, which has Cyclists Dismount signs on it! Not that anyone does...

I treat them the same on my bike as I do in my car. Stop unless they are defective.

I do dismount and walk the bike across the pedestrian crossing at a cross roads then remount and carry on from the other side. Seems a legal way of keeping going?

There's an olympic event in Newcastle?

For me it's about perception, who people identify with and how they respond to what they do.

I'd like to see a lot more people reconsider the role of the car in their lives and society in general, which I reckon/hope would lead to things like: People in cars not seeing cyclists as annoying irrelevancies, less school runs being done in virtually empty 4X4s, town centres being dominated by people instead of cars, etc etc.

IMO the views of 'the middle' are key to this. Most folk are more-or-less decent, reasonable people, and I think they're more likely to consider their own behaviour in light of the behaviour of other people that they identify with and have some sort of respect for.

So they're more likely to wonder if they should give cycling to work a go after chatting to Dave down the corridor who bikes to work every day and seems like a pretty normal bloke, and maybe more likely to wait a few seconds extra for that cyclist to pass the junction before pulling out when they're on their way home.

I think they're less likely to identify with those crusties on tall bikes, or those twunts in tights who blow through the lights every day while everybody else waits, or that Critical Mass lot who made a point of trying to ride down that road that they knew they couldn't because the Olympics is on, FFS. Cyclists? To$$ers.

Anyway, that's [i]part [/i]of my take on the whole 'road manners' vs 'I'll do what I like cos I can, and anyway everybody else does it' thing. Hopelessly naive maybe...

So a lot of you run red lights do you also do the same on zebra crossings when someone is crossing?

Yes and no. There's only one set off lights on the way commute and like others have said they don't always detect a cyclist. So i either wait or jump them.

Having said that, on one occasion i did stop at a red light a driver just piled straight into back of me. He claimed he didn't know what i was doing and just carried on through a red light. So stunned was i at his stupidity, i forgot to give him back his wing mirror that i liberated from his car...

There was a thread earlier on in the week that quoted Bella Bathurst, that pretty much summed up my feelings on bikes and road law. Something along the lines of roads laws ignoring the cyclist, so cyclists felt they had no choice but to ignore the rules.

There's an olympic event in Newcastle?

Either that or someone has started selling shiny tracksuits to immigrants and tourists as they get off the plane. 😀

(We have [url= http://www.london2012.com/venue/st-james-park/ ]the football[/url] plus [url= http://www.newcastle.gov.uk/leisure-libraries-and-tourism/tourism-and-travel/olympic-events-newcastle ]assorted "halo" events[/url])

Hence the big rings on the Tyne Bridge in [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/in-praise-of-sustrans-and-traffic-free-cycle-paths-photos ]my piccy the other day[/url]:
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I don't really ride anywhere with lights but on the rare occasion that I do, if I can see that the road is definitely clear from all directions I'll go through it. If I can see someone about to cross a zebra but I know I'll be across way before they get to my side I'll go over it. I probably wouldn't if there was a risk of points/a fine like there is with a car..

Yes I do; I do stop at a lot of red lights, but do jump some.

Edit - always stop at zebra crossings if folk are on then.

Anyway, that's part of my take on the whole 'road manners' vs 'I'll do what I like cos I can, and anyway everybody else does it' thing. Hopelessly naive maybe...

Spot on IMO, especially the "pretty normal bloke" part, which is part of the reason I don't wear lycra or a helmet to ride to work.

There are many roads where a car driver who drives at or below the speed limit attracts the disapproval of most of the other drivers as shown by tailgating, flashing headlights etc and the fact every other driver exceeds the limit, often by a considerable margin. So I don't think cyclists need to feel guilty about RLJing. Most drivers not only break traffic laws on many journeys but actually get annoyed if every other driver does not join them. Their respect? Not sure I want it.

The most common complaints I hear about cyclists are not about RLJing but from drivers annoyed at being held up on the open road by cyclists for short periods of time, normally less than a traffic lihgt cycle. The other one is complaining about why cyclists are riding in the middle of the road when they are in fact 1 - 1.5M from the kerb - the correct position. Many drivers feel cyclists should be in the gutter.

Every cyclist in the UK could stop RLJing ttomorrow and it would make little difference. Some drivers feel a sense of entitlement compared to cyclists. RLJing has nothing to with it.

what he ^ said.

So a lot of you run red lights do you also do the same on zebra crossings when someone is crossing?

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On the whole jumping red lights p's me off. What time does it really save and how much grief do cyclists/bike riders/etc get because of it.

However i do know that there are odd sets of lights that do not respond to bikes so what choice do you have?

Never.

There are many roads where a car driver who drives at or below the speed limit attracts the disapproval of most of the other drivers as shown by tailgating, flashing headlights etc and the fact every other driver exceeds the limit, often by a considerable margin. So I don't think cyclists need to feel guilty about RLJing. Most drivers not only break traffic laws on many journeys but actually get annoyed if every other driver does not join them. Their respect? Not sure I want it.

The most common complaints I hear about cyclists are not about RLJing but from drivers annoyed at being held up on the open road by cyclists for short periods of time, normally less than a traffic lihgt cycle. The other one is complaining about why cyclists are riding in the middle of the road when they are in fact 1 - 1.5M from the kerb - the correct position. Many drivers feel cyclists should be in the gutter.

Every cyclist in the UK could stop RLJing ttomorrow and it would make little difference. Some drivers feel a sense of entitlement compared to cyclists. RLJing has nothing to with it.

I agree with every single word of that. just simple common sense.

Never.

You've never ever jumped ared light? Have you ever ridden in a large town or city?

irc talks sense - someone please ban him 😛

In answer to the original post: Occasionally, but mostly no.

I'm still yet to work out how the road crossings I pass on a bridleway home each night figure in the arrangement, yes I have to cross the path of traffic, but I can only stop the traffic as a pedestrian or if I was a guided bus. I treat them like a crossroads and approach with caution and give way if there are oncoming vehicles. I have been beeped at before - but only by an angry Range Rover driver when I was about 20m clear of the junction by the time they passed.

Every cyclist in the UK could stop RLJing ttomorrow and it would make little difference

Very true.

Some drivers feel a sense of entitlement compared to cyclists.

Also true, but I think they feel that entitlement at least partly because it's very easy for them to think of cyclists as fringe, freeloading annoyances that they and the rest of the right-thinking, car-loving part of the country have no common ground with.

Rightly or wrongly, what wider society thinks is normal carries a lot of weight, and for things to change society needs to start thinking about things in a different way. Obviously that's not going to happen overnight, and keeping the alternatives on the fringe isn't going to help.