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Should limits be the same for a modern ABS-equipped car as for a Ford Anglia with drum brakes?
The annual death toll when a Ford Anglia was new, was approximately three times the annual death toll now. Why would anyone propose a course of action that takes us backwards?
The problem with average cameras there is that you have a lane of vehicles doing 48mph, another doing 50, another doing 52, and a penis in an 'executive' vehicle who doesn't understand what "average speed cameras" means.
I went down a stretch the other day, on the M62. First lane full of trucks bumper to bumper. Got in the second lane, set cruise to 50mph (actual, not indicated). Picked up a truck behind me who spent the bulk of the roadworks about six inches from my back bumper, flashing his lights to try and bully me into going faster. Dunno quite what he expected.
v8ninety - MemberTJ, I take it you are not a particularly seasoned driver? It shows.
I got my driving lisence in 1977. Mainly ridden bikes, don't drive cars a lot.
Your scenario is simply not plausible to me at all. By accelerating you make a tiny difference to the amount of time you are alongside the truck - you remove yourself from danger far quicker by braking and you decrease the consequences of any crash.
Yes there is a tiny range of speeds and distances where that could make a tiny difference but its so improbable
I think you are showing your lack of anticipation and awareness myself.
Brilliant Charlie that'll stop all the accidents... 😯
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The problem with average cameras there is that you have a lane of vehicles doing 48mph, another doing 50, another doing 52, and a penis in an 'executive' vehicle who doesn't understand what "average speed cameras" means.
Well, there's always going to be an eejit somewhere...but in general, traffic flows better when average jobbies are used. Take the M25 variable speed limit section; up to a point (again, sheer weight), traffic only started to flow better once the variable speed limits were made mandatory with the possibility that there was a camera on the gantries (much to the chagrin of the massive cock, Clarkson).
The problem with average cameras there is that you have a lane of vehicles doing 48mph, another doing 50, another doing 52, and a penis in an 'executive' vehicle who doesn't understand what "average speed cameras" means.I went down a stretch the other day, on the M62. First lane full of trucks bumper to bumper. Got in the second lane, set cruise to 50mph (actual, not indicated). Picked up a truck behind me who spent the bulk of the roadworks about six inches from my back bumper, flashing his lights to try and bully me into going faster. Dunno quite what he expected
That's because it's average speed innit!! Not constant speed! in a 50 average zone, I spend the first part of the section pootling along at forty, then i nip out and bang along at 60, flashing at folks to get out of my way. This usually forces someone to exceed the limit over their average and get nicked, and they deserve it, for speeding, obviously. Me however, I've been all law-abiding and that.
Well, there's always going to be an eejit somewhere
hmmm
it's becoming increasingly obvious that you are wrong, TJ... Go on, admit it! it can't be that hard!
Hmmm. obviously it is that hard. 🙄
TJ, it's not just a plausible situation, it's a real one. it happened, and accelerating worked. The daft thing is, I'm not even particularly advocating the 'right to break the speed limit' position, I simply answered your request for a plausible situation. Failure of anticipation? yeah, right. cheers for that, because you're qualified to judge, ha ha! 😉
Yes there is a tiny range of speeds and distances where that could make a tiny difference but its so improbable
And that is as close as you'll ever get to TJ admitting you might have a point.
I'd leave it there if I were you.
Just for giggles though: okay TJ, what happens in that situation when you've got some muppet behind you driving six inches off your bumper, talking on his phone, changing the radio and arguing with his girlfriend?
If you brake hard he'll hit you and likely put you both under the truck.
If you accelerate hard you might both be able to get out of there before the truck smears you against the central barrier.
Graham - you have already made a whole series of mistakes to get into that situation. The answer is not to get in that situation. I never allow another car to tailgate me at speed and certainly not while overtaking a truck
V8 - to be in that situation you did fail to anticipate - you failed to anticipate the truck pulling out.
So as I said originally you had already made a series of mistakes to get in that situation. if yo had anticipated better you wouldn't have been o in that situation.
riding a bike as I have mainly done makes you a lot more vulnerable and one tends to learn to anticipate more - even tho you have far greater acceleration than the vast majority of cars in hundreds of thousands of miles the only times I have accelearte out of a situation is when Ihad already made a mistake and made myself vulnerable by going for a closing gap. thats the situation you are describing here
TandemJeremy - Member
cougar - what you forget is the effect of the car hitting something. [b]at 25 mph a person who is hit by a car survives - at 35 mph they do not [/b]How many thousands of deaths?
Are you actually quoting that bollx as a FACT.
Or would you happily admit that it's just some [b]misquoted[/b] stuff from an advert that you half heard on the TV a while back (but have forgotten most of so got it wrong)
Actually, to be fair Gee2daEss and V8, constantly chucking "whatifs" is pretty pointless in this discussion. We can all do our best to make up hypotheticals where we should be allowed to boot it out of a situation, but these situations will never occur at a statistical frequency as to make them any kind of reason for change of existing laws/limits.
TandemJeremy - MemberGraham - you have already made a whole series of mistakes to get into that situation. The answer is not to get in that situation.
This is a genuine honest to god Fact. Which I'll add some Supposition to- I reckon if people knew their car was limited to 70mph, they'd be less likely to put themselves in daft situations where they wanted to go faster to get out of their own mess. (and no, this isn't holier than thou, I've done it myself and been glad to be able to power out of it)
But since there are other, perfectly legitimate reasons for a vehicle to legally exceed the UK speed limit, I'm against limiters anyway.
So the speed at which you hit people makes no difference?
Really the bollox talked by those who are desperate for excuses to speed is laughable
speed all you want - I have driven at sustained cross country speeds that most of you never acheive - but I wouldn't claim it was safer, I wouldn't bleat if I got caught and I don't try to claim that speed cameras are a scam.
Are you actually quoting that bollx as a FACT.Or would you happily admit that it's just some misquoted stuff from an advert that you half heard on the TV a while back
Actually, he's not [i]that[/i] far off. Maybe think about what you're typing when you're in a rush to bait TeeJ.
I have driven at sustained cross country speeds that most of you never acheive
TeeJ, you have pressed the red ****ing button. You eejit.
V8 - to be in that situation you did fail to anticipate - you failed to anticipate the truck pulling out.
This is brilliant.
No, I didn't fail to anticipate the truck pulling out, I merely decided that in the unlikely event of the truck pulling out, my escape routes would be either sideways if available (it wasn't)braking if viable (it wasn't) or acceleration if possible (it was). I'm still here, no collision occured, driving plan success, pat on the back to me.
🙂 For DD
Graham - you have already made a whole series of mistakes to get into that situation. The answer is not to get in that situation.
Not everyone is as perfect as you TJ - mistakes are how accidents happen. If your argument is that people just shouldn't make mistakes then why do we need [i]any[/i] speed limits?
I never allow another car to tailgate me at speed and certainly not while overtaking a truck
And how do you stop them exactly?
You're on a two-lane dual-carriageway approaching a truck. You pull out and overtake. While overtaking some muppet behind you either decides you aren't overtaking fast enough (or just isn't paying attention) and fails to maintain a suitable braking distance.
That kind of thing happens all day every day.
So the speed at which you hit people makes no difference?
Where did I say that ??
Nice try deflecting though.
Your quote was half remembered bunkum.
That's all I pointed out. I said nothing at all about speeding. Didn't try justify it in any way, or say anything about speed cameras.
I Just pointed out that you were making things up to justify your stance.
these situations will never occur at a statistical frequency as to make them any kind of reason for change of existing laws/limits.
Agreed, DD!
pat on the back to me.
Yes, well done. You are a driving God (though, to be fair, I think we'd all got that impression a long time ago).
I Just pointed out that you were making things up to justify your stance.
Well done. STW needs more people like you...especially when TeeJ is in full flow.
And how do you stop them exactly?
Well, I'm pretty sure he doesn't accelerate out of danger, anyway! lol
Seems to me that TJ has been hit by this truck
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And how do you stop them exactly?
Anticipation. its the key to good safe driving.
And how do you stop them exactly?
Anticipation. its the key to good safe forum discussions.
I thought that was condoms Charlie?
Yes, well done. You are a driving God (though, to be fair, I think we'd all got that impression a long time ago).
I get the tone that this was said in, although my self congratulatory pat on the back was somewhat tongue in cheek.
I'm obviously not a driving god, and for anyone to think that they were would be dangerously arrogant, [i]but[/i] surely taking pride in your driving observation and anticipation skills is a good thing? no? encouraging a rise in actual standards of driving, rather than a robotic 'must drive at a set speed', but I can put me lippy on/drink my tea/chat on the phone/pay no attention to the road whilst doing it...'
Anticipation. its the key to good safe driving.
WHAT EXACTLY are you going to anticipate????
How do you anticipate that the lorry driver is going to have a seizure and swerve the lorry?
How do you anticipate him having a front wheel blow out?
Or that the guy who has sat calmly behind you for five miles will start arguing with his girlfriend, get angry and want to take out his aggression on you?
Is this you?
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surely taking pride in your driving and observation skills is a good thing?
Indeed it is - which means not getting into situations like you describe. why did the truck pull out? was it going for an overtake?
Really? In what circumstances would accelerating to above the speed limit be safer?
A bloke I used to motorbike with had an incident with a drunk pedestrian who stepped out into the road in front of him, this was in the dark; his natural reaction was to brake and try to come to a stop, by doing so he did slow down but clipped the guy. To be honest I can't recall the full details, although I know he wasn't speeding, but anyway the police who attended said he should have accelerated and got past the guy....
I get the tone that this was said in, although my self congratulatory pat on the back was somewhat tongue in cheek.
Sorry, missed a smilie 🙂
However, what about everybody else on the roads who isn't up to your standards?
Graham - in the situation you describe you look for the car approaching from behind. You should be aware of every vehicle around you - those approaching from behind, those in front, you should be aware of anything the the vehicle you want to overtake may want to overtake. Yo should be aware of the positions and relative speeds of any vehicle that could be in a position to affect you during that overtake.
If someone wants to tailgate me I simply slow down and drop into the inside lane and let them by. this has saved me from a serious accident on a busy motorway. I will not pull out to overtake if somone is approaching faster than me from behind and will catch up with me during that overtake
How do you anticipate that the lorry driver is going to have a seizure and swerve the lorry?How do you anticipate him having a front wheel blow out?
Or that the guy who has sat calmly behind you for five miles will start arguing with his girlfriend, get angry and want to take out his aggression on you?
More anomalies.
why did the truck pull out? was it going for an overtake?
Take your pick:
The driver had a heart attack.
He had a front tyre blow out.
The prostitute in his cab escaped.
A meteorite smashed down ahead, completely destroying his lane.
A child's face ran out onto the road.
Obviously being MysticTJ you will have anticipated all these possibilities. 😆
Graham - v8 was describing what he claimed was a real situation.
The driver had a heart attack.
He had a front tyre blow out.
The prostitute in his cab escaped.
A meteorite smashed down ahead, completely destroying his lane.
A child's face ran out onto the road.
More anomalies. 🙂
Can this be resolved perhaps TJ, by you applying you considerable intellect to create a plausible situation in which accelerating beyond the speed limit might be the safest thing to do? You're a smart fella, give it a go.
Graham - in the situation you describe you look for the car approaching from behind. You should be aware of every vehicle around you - those approaching from behind, those in front, you should be aware of anything the the vehicle you want to overtake may want to overtake. Yo should be aware of the positions and relative speeds of any vehicle that could be in a position to affect you during that overtake.
Yep and I do [u]try[/u] to be.
But you can NEVER anticipate everything. And you can NEVER be infallible.
(Well okay, obviously YOU are infallible. But the rest of us make mistakes and are sometimes wrong).
As I said the guy behind may have been quite happily tootling along behind you when he suddenly decides he wants to get a shift on for some reason (realises he is late / has a fight / hears a fast song on the radio / gets irate at the Today programme / whatever)
Or perhaps he has just joined from the slip road you passed a while back so you didn't get the chance to carefully assess his speed, attitude and demeanour before starting your manoeuvre.
If someone wants to tailgate me I simply slow down and drop into the inside lane and let them by. this has saved me from a serious accident on a busy motorway. I will not pull out to overtake if somone is approaching faster than me from behind and will catch up with me during that overtake
Yup that's my approach too, but it doesn't always avoid the situation. Other vehicles are driven by people who also make mistakes and bad decisions.
If someone catches up with me as I am overtaking a truck, or perhaps a line of several trucks, you would recommend...
You're a smart fella, give it a go.
If he proves himself wrong he disappears in a puff of logic.
v8 was describing what he claimed was a real situation.
Do lorries not lose control? Do lorry drivers not have strokes or make stupid mistakes? Does wildlife never stray onto the road?
You can't anticipate away every accident.
CharlieMungus - MemberCan this be resolved perhaps TJ, by you applying you considerable intellect to create a plausible situation in which accelerating beyond the speed limit might be the safest thing to do? You're a smart fella, give it a go.
The only one I can think of is if you have made a misjudgement and put yourself in the position of going for a closing gap. without making a mistake? I can't think of one
If someone catches up with me as I am overtaking a truck, or perhaps a line of several trucks, you would recommend...
Cutting in to the inside lane - slowing down to do so if necessary. But its clearly best to anticipate correctly and not get into that situation
The only one I can think of is if you have made a misjudgement and put yourself in the position of going for a closing gap. without making a mistake?
So just to be clear, you say having made a mistake of judgement, it maybe safer to accelerate beyond the speed limit.
a plausible situation in which accelerating beyond the speed limit might be the safest thing to do?
escaping from a river of lava?