[Closed] Do you believe on god?

good one Simonralli2 and tyredbiker. Late night God threads are always good! makes ya think.

edit: nevermind!

Chewkw- sorry I don't think I quite understand the problem/question 😕 Run it past me again.

"Folks, it's time to evolve. That's why we're troubled. You know why our institutions are failing us, the church, the state, everything's failing? It's because, um – they're no longer relevant. We're supposed to keep evolving. Evolution did not end with us growing opposable thumbs. You do know that, right? There's another 90 percent of our brains that we have to illuminate."
— Bill Hicks

Kevevs - Member
Late night God threads are always good! makes ya think.

Yes, late night but I am watching NFL.

The clinging to the concept of creator god is somewhat perplexing to me but then I guess many adopt the concept as 'security blanket' due to the stress in life. There might be Abrahamic gods but then to elevate them to one single concept of a creator god I think is simply adding more complication to life.

tyredbiker - Member

Chewkw- sorry I don't think I quite understand the problem/question Run it past me again.

When you referred to "a higher being" you are essentially associating your thinking with creation. i.e. perhaps they are all works of creator god.

I am asking if you have searched for other explanations? Because your reference point is still to the Abrahamic faith of a creator god or "a higher being". A = singular. One higher being which can only be explained or associated with the recent explanation from Abrahamic faith.

I agree, it is a human construct. not some amazing thing that exists out there in the ether with different labels. So you've gotta believe in humans or not. tough choice all round eh? seing as you are human.

Gods - no such thing. Just preposterous.

TandemJeremy - Member

Gods - no such thing. Just preposterous.

Crikey, TJ is still awake! LOL!

No, there are many gods but[u][b] not[/b][/u] creator god.

😀

mmmm a god thread has awoken the tj. I dunno really. is that ok...

I'm a dyslexic, agnostic insomniac. I'm currently lying awake wondering if there's a dog.

Humans. No such Gods, just preposterous...

I believe in a Creator and loving God. I wouldn't ram it down peoples throats, to coin a phrase, as it takes a personal faith to believe. However, if I may say, it does amaze me as to how often the issue is discussed on stw, especially when so many of you state that you don't believe. Nothing wrong with that or asking questions - that's how it started for me. Alpha Course is a great and "safe" place to discuss these kinds of issues - if you care to look.

I'd be interested to know how many of you have ever prayed, maybe in a crisis, because praying for God to be shown to you as "real" is very often answered.

I don't think the Christian god exists. As for other forms of natural divinity, I'm not sure.

I also don't believe the 'science FACT' that many use to prop up their world view. Our knowledge of the universe is still in it's infancy, 500 years ago you'd have got locked up for telling me the earth was round and that the world wasn't at the centre of the universe. Oh and you can keep your leeches too! 🙂

I guess many adopt the concept as 'security blanket' due to the stress in life. There might be Abrahamic gods but then to elevate them to one single concept of a creator god I think is simply adding more complication to life.

Surely making life much simpler?

Personally I have no difficulty at all with the "What's it all for? Why are we here?" kind of question. I'm perfectly content just not thinking about it. My other "insight" into the whole God thing comes in the form of a question - "Why would God have bothered?" - Answer "He wouldn't" - QED - No God.

However, in my adolescence I thought about that sort of thing quite a lot and found it depressing. So if you're the sort of person who does dwell on that sort of question then I think that believing in God is quite a handy fix that may well be what you need to let you get on with the rest of your life.

[img] [/img]

I believe in the monkey god!

God is a gas.

If God exists, he's probably reading this thread right now. And face-palming.

No, I don't believe. But if I did, I'd rather worship the Norse, Egyptian or Greek pantheons. There's a bit more variety, less women-hating and just as believable.

Agnostic.

As someone once wrote, "I don't know if God exists but if he does I'd like to meet him one day".

I am a dyslexic, agnostic insomniac.

Is this why I lay awake at night wondering if there really is a dog.

That was a heavy Sunday night.

Monday morning so back on your heads eh lads.

Tyger, I support non-verbal severely learning disabled autistic young adults (there is no short way to describe that). Please tell how someone without the capacity to pray can have any prayers answered. If there is a God, he's not very nice.

Ever see someone who can't communicate how upset they are smash their head through reinforced glass? It's not very easy to observe. (Oh, and he has a risk of eating the glass once it has broken).

It bothers me that there's this idea that you can ask God for favours. As if he is biased. I think the act of putting the decision in someone else's hands takes the pressure off enough to allow a clear thought. It sounds like life has been favourable to you and if you have found peace then I am envious.

Us non-godders like to discuss it because there's no point in blind faith regardless of what you think. The presence of religion surrounds us therefore it is always a relevant topic. Until we can find answers for the big conceptual questions that having a brain generates, it's totally worth it too.

Good morning! Chewkw, Ive never really thought about there being multiple gods no but I wouldn't argue against anyone believing as such. I have been taught about other religions including religions where deities create the universe/world 'accidentally' (I'm a young'un so relatively recently too), but not immersed myself in them and consequently my use of vocabulary reflects such. I would be open to learn more.

Security blanket

Maybe. But if a belief can give someone comfort when in time of need, who am I (or anybody) to take it away?
I can't remember whether I believed in an 'afterlife' before, but since my boyfriend died I hope more than anything, that I will see him again. Whether you deem it a misguided hope, clutching at a security blanket or nonsense, it's mine and it helps me get through the day, because otherwise I would have given up a long time ago.

No, I don't believe. But if I did, I'd rather worship the Norse, Egyptian or Greek pantheons.

I'm giving the Aztec gods a spin this week. I particularly like the fact that the main man - led the Aztecs to the 'promised land' (sounds familiar?) - is a left-handed humming-bird.

Today I will be devoting myself to Ahuitzotl, a human-eating water-dwelling dog-monkey with a hand on its tail. To this end I will be dangling a marigold glove from the back of my pants all day.

first off - religion sucks - the movie "Life of Brian" sums it up (apart from the aliens maybe)

second, there is no god.

If there is something that 'created everything' then it is far removed from what we think of as a god.

Earth is a miniscule part of space and earth is 4.6 billion years old whereas we have only been here very recently and then only by luck.

Lastly, as Herman says above "If there is a God, he's not very nice" - he/she doesn't deserve any form of worship - more like a good butt kicking.

Alpha Course is a great and "safe" place to discuss these kinds of issues - if you care to look.

The Alpha course is hardly a non-biased approach to finding out if god exists or not. It is run by Churches after all.

higgo - I'm a (pretty crap) catholic, but I have to admit, I find your dog-monkey hand tailed hybrid an intriguing and tempting concept... 😆
We have threads similar to this on a regular basis on STW, and to be honest, they always end up the same way. Surely, belief is a personal thing, so why the need to provide 'proof'? (I may have it wrong, am I confusing belief with faith?), Whatever, I suppose it gives some of the more heavyweight intellectuals an excuse to prove their superiority - winning arguments is all that counts, after all.
And more importantly, can somebody change the thread title - I dont know at all whether or not I believe 'on' anything.

I have Christian morals most of the time, but don't believe in the Christian.

For me most religions are guide lines for social existence.
They set rules to which humanity is expected to follow.
Sadly due to the many differing religions, the rules that the various Gods dictate conflict with other, creating hatred and war, it has for years.

There is no one god, or even many gods.They're are imaginary characters created by those needing control,wanting others to conform to their standards of living.

IMO

Surely, belief is a personal thing, so why the need to provide 'proof'?

This is probably the most sensible sentence in this thread.

This one isn't:

second, there is no god

No offence, but this atheistic certainty gives me the willies... It suggests that our minds are capable of universal understanding, that our intelligence can be so astute to enable complete comprehension. Nobody - not even a poster on STW - has that gift.

Is a taoist a tattooist from essex?

No, it just means there is no god. Where you get willies from is your business.

I pose a slightly different question in response.
If I showed evidence of the existence of say "double entry book keeping" to my cat. Would it's inability to recognise this as evidence mean that double entry book keeping doesn't exist?

I believe in evolution. I also believe in God (although not a religion as such) And the more I study the natural world, the more I am convinced of a higher being.

Nature red in tooth and claw as your reference for an all loving god ...interesting.
PS how do you square evolution and fossils with biblical time lines?

Is this the kind of thing that makes you beleive in god?

belief is a personal thing, so why the need to provide 'proof'?

I think Man (incl Woman) needs something to beleive in. It's a basic human question of thought as to "is there something/someone who has created me/us/this world"
Once the thought popped into Mans head, he had to stick a label to it. Considering he had no referance for that label Man chose an image of himself and beleived only he could be so bold a being to have any influence or creative expertese to build what we currently bounce around on. Therfore once the story telling around some camp fires started burning it became a natural story to tell whilt whiling away many a cold hour during the non productive evenings. A fable, a story formed and was listened to by the otheres in the grou, who became followers of this story teller. The stories became more wide spread, Man followed Man around listening to these ever increasing tales of wonder, tribes split taking tales and stories along with them therby passing the "word". As each tribe formed into Hamlets and Villiages the storyteller become someone to look upto, to follow and these tales became chanels of common thought to abide by and live to.

Man IMO, must believe in something other than his own being (whether concious or not) and live by a moral code only he can decide upon. IMO all Gods are worthy, all have the similar atttributes and all have followers who trust in a greater being than themselves.

Faith (no George Micheal impressions here) is a basic human need and the base emenance of all Gods.

Now then, if you are talking Religion, then hey.. thats another thread entierly.

S'cuse the spelling, all off my mobie today)

"second, there is no god"
No offence, but this atheistic certainty gives me the willies...

I make no apologies - notice that I do not deny that something my have created things, but not a god in any of the definitions I see

As the "Existence of God" is beyond the remit of scientific investigation, her non-existence is as much a matter of personal belief (aka faith) as her existence.
People who dismiss this fascinating area of human cultural experience as "preposterous" are simply demonstrating their limited and prejudicial outlook on the world.

+1 Junkyard

yes that is what i think of folk who dont believe in invisible spider mans holding up the world 🙄
It is merely a culturally accpeted delusional belief- see how david icke was percieved/treated when his case is no less [ or more] valid than god.

No offence, but this atheistic certainty gives me the willies... It suggests that our minds are capable of universal understanding, that our intelligence can be so astute to enable complete comprehension. Nobody - not even a poster on STW - has that gift.

Quite the opposite, atheism is about accepting that some mysteries and questions will forever remain unsolved, that we will never have the answer for everything and accepting the unknown for what it is rather than believing that an invisible friend in the sky has all the answers.

Junkyard - who is this 'they'? My belief / faith is just that, mine.I really dont recall hijacking euthanasia or abortion, or trying to preach to you or convert you. You're talking about organised religion, whereas I'm talking about a personal belief system. Enjoying the 'invisible spider mans' bit though - quality!
This doesnt make much sense now that you've edited your post - arses! 😳

Quite the opposite, atheism is about accepting that some mysteries and questions will forever remain unsolved, that we will never have the answer for everything and accepting the unknown for what it is rather than believing that an invisible friend in the sky has all the answers.

That's agnosticism, surely?

Atheism rejects the possibility that God (or gods) exist.

HTH

I'm quite agnostic on things like this. I believe there could be a god, in the sense that there is an underlying cause of reality, and a reason why there is something instead of nothing, and that is is concious, to an extent. But this is merely a comforting thought, as otherwise you have to think far deeper, and try to understand things that are far more complex.

I quite like the thought of a Futurama style god, a mass of plasma, gas, and stars, somewhere deep in space, that has formed almost a huge super computer, and is almost completely unaware of human existence.

I also quite like the idea of a Forever Free style god, where there is a single concious being running an experiment, he has created our universe, and just plays with it. The idea that there are more of him, and more universes, raises an interesting question, and so does the idea of someone managing, or watching over, all the experiments.

Or we could be in a matrix type situation. Or reality could just be a complete and utter lie. If there is a god though, does he have a god too? If you accept that god created reality, who created god? It's possibly even a more discomforting thought.

I don't waste too much time on thoughts like this though, there's not much point to it. I'd rather think about fun stuff. I do find most religions rather silly though, as I don't believe someone would create a universe then spend his time telling a bunch of desert people how to live, although the basic idea of most religions is quite nice - love thy neighbour, yada yada yada.

Gnostic atheists are very annoying though.

Herman Shake +1 (as similarly I've lived my life with a severely mentally and physically disabled brother who couldn't pray nor even begin to understand any concept such as 'God')

I find it impossible to seperate out the concept of God from associated organised religions, and I find the religions that I am familiar with to be homophobic and sexist. Religion offers a prescribed way of living, outlining moral codes which define 'good' behaviour. I find aspects of these moral codes to be discriminatory against women and gay people, and that they limit the need for all of us to reflect on and consider our behaviour ourselves.

As these moral codes purport to be 'the word of god', by association I cannot support the concept of a god.

I fully respect other people's right to believe in whatever they choose, I just profoundly object the any attempts to convince others to believe the same, or to impose their religious moral codes of behaviour onto others.

That's agnosticism, surely?

Atheism rejects the possibility that God (or gods) exist.

HTH

Accepting that we will never know the answers, is not the same as accepting the possible existence of god, not sure how you got that from that paragraph.

That's agnosticism, surely?
Atheism rejects the possibility that God (or gods) exist.

HTH

Accepting that we will never know the answers, is not the same as accepting the possible existence of god, not sure how you got that from that paragraph.

Oh, okay then.

Admitting that we will never know the answers whilst rejecting the possibility of a divine interpretation is certainly an interesting stance. It's like knowing and not knowing at the same time.

Anyone want to discuss if there is a Devil?

Someone is going to say that they believe in Intelligent Design next...

No, it's agnostic atheism.

Most sane people fall into the four possibilities I think; agnostic/gnostic atheist/theist.

If you are a person of faith you are culpable to an extent in all of the activities of the faithful bad and good, no matter how limited your involvement in organised faith. By accepting god you are part of the god squad as a whole.

I can do without that on my conscience.

The word "believe" always stikes me a suitably vague anyway. It seems to cover everything from "firm religeous faith" through to "an opinion". 😆

Do you have a need, to which one solution is a god?

I prefer questions. "Why" is always a good one.

If you are a person of faith you are culpable to an extent in all of the activities of the faithful bad and good, no matter how limited your involvement in organised faith. By accepting god you are part of the god squad as a whole.

I can do without that on my conscience.

Are you saying that all Muslims everywhere are guilty for every terrorist attack that is committed in the name of that faith? It's a pretty bold claim. What if someone went out and killed a whole bunch of people in the name of atheism? Would you be able to live with the guilt?

[i]If you are a person of faith you are culpable to an extent in all of the activities of the faithful bad and good, no matter how limited your involvement in organised faith. By accepting god you are part of the god squad as a whole.[/i]

It's an interesting point, but it rather depends on if you define a god as the representation defined by a set of religious doctrine, or use other definitions.

Oh, okay then.

Admitting that we will never know the answers whilst rejecting the possibility of a divine interpretation is certainly an interesting stance. It's like knowing and not knowing at the same time.

Not really, not understanding how something works, how something reacts, how electricity in biological matter creates thoughts and ideas, is a perfectly natural position to be in. The fact that I don't have to understand or need to understand, means I don't have to jump at ridiculous magical answers to explain away my lack of understanding.

joolsburger - Member
If you are a person of faith you are culpable to an extent in all of the activities of the faithful bad and good, no matter how limited your involvement in organised faith. By accepting god you are part of the god squad as a whole.

so similarly, those who object to the worship of a 'God' have complicity in all the persecutions of people of faith by atheistic regimes ????

Fascinating thread. Some really, really interesting points of view and onions being expressed, and not quite as much narrow-mindedness as there often is on such threads.

You cannot discuss God without religion

Again, I've got to strongly disagree with this. Herman; seems that [i]you[/i] cannot conceptualise God outside of the framework of organised religion, and have little or no understanding of how others, such as myself, can. You question how a God can allow awful things to happen, such as the suffering of Humans, but you're attaching too many values from organised religion to the notion of what or 'who' God is. Why does God necessarily have to be this wonderful loving kind benevolent being, as portrayed by many religions?

To me, the idea of God is born of our Human desire, need, to understand stuff. Where there were gaps in understanding, it appears the belief in God/s and attributing the inexplicable to God/s was very common. Things like the seasons. And if the rains din't come, or the crops failed, it might have bin seen as the anger of God/s.

Of course, religion developed around the idea that there was a God/Gods behind everything, then became the principle form of societal and economic control. And yes, it was exploited and manipulated by those seeking to serve their own ends. To the extent the way we behave socially is very much governed and shaped by religious ideology; our laws definitely are, and even our behaviour on the forum! See the rules on swearing for a perfect example of this...

These days, increasing number of people see Science as the principle form of investigation, as the development of scientific techniques has led to many religious theories being proven incorrect. We now use science to fill in the gaps in our knowledge, and indeed, it seems a safer method of exploration, mostly. But Science, like religion, is often manipulated to control and serve the powerful. Hiroshima, Nagasaki, the Space Race etc.

And there are times when there is perhaps too much 'faith' in Science; take the case of the drug Thalidomide, who's side-effects caused so much suffering for so many people. Of course that wasn't intended, but it just shows that the power offered by Science must be wielded carefully. Industry driven by scientific exploration is causing irreparable damage to our planet. And we're at the stage now where those expressing concern and the need for caution are treated like the heretics and blasphemers of the past.

Don't get me wrong, I love Science. I just feel there is room for all manner of thought, not just a pattern sanctioned by those in power, or those who proclaim themselves to be superior because their beliefs are more correct than others.

I just feel there is room for all manner of thought, not just a pattern sanctioned by those in power, or those who proclaim themselves to be superior because their beliefs are more correct than others.

Couldn't agree more. Pity the likes of TJ, Woppit et al cannot be more tolerant of others beliefs.

Couldn't agree more. Pity the likes of TJ, Woppit et al cannot be more tolerant of others beliefs.

Why does one set of beliefs deserve tollerance more than others? Plenty of people on here challenge, some might even say bully, TJ for his beliefs.

Religious beliefs, like all beliefs, should be open to challenge and criticism, they do not deserve special treatment.

Agree with Fred, God is a manifestation of y/our inability to comprehend the vastness and depth of existence and reality.

Some people turn to religion for answers others to art, poetry, philosphy or science - which one is 'right'?.....

.....IMO 'none of the above' at least in isolation.
We need all aspects of our experience, intellect and creativity to even begin to understand "the big questions" and using an adversarial reductionist approach does nothing but build boundaries and exploit differences between people with varying understandings, experiences, opinions and beliefs.

If you are a person of faith you are culpable to an extent in all of the activities of the faithful bad and good, no matter how limited your involvement in organised faith. By accepting god you are part of the god squad as a whole.

Silly.

If you are a football supporter you are culpable of any football hooliganism?

If you ride a bike you are culpable of red light jumping?

If you have a child you are culpable of playground bullying?

If you vote you are culpable of supporting the system that makes possible the BNP?

gonefishin - Member

Plenty of people on here challenge, some might even say bully, TJ for his beliefs.

The difference is Tj doesn't put his points over as beliefs or opinions but as :facts:

If we're going to decide if God exists or not we're going to have to deefine what me mean by the term and stick to it.

The God I don't believe in is obviously different to the God some people choose to accept. 😀

"Do you believe in god?"

No.

😆

The difference is Tj doesn't put his points over as beliefs or opinions but as :facts:

As do many, many Thesitic people. The difference is that his facts are at least falsifiable.

is god short for godfrey? if so then i know he exists, i've got him working a shift for me in oxford at the moment.

[i]increasing number of people see Science as the principle form of investigation[/i]

Eh?

If you 'investigate' something, that's you, doing science, right there.

That's what 'SCIENCE' is; it's a way of asking about the world.
Religion is one way of answering those questions, old fashioned, self limited, unsatisfactory, but just one way of answering.

[i]Because God didn't build himself that throne
And God doesn't live in Israel or Rome
God doesn't belong to the Yankee dollar
And God doesn't plant those bombs for Hezbollah
God doesn't even go to church
And God won't send us down to Hell to burn
God will remind us what we already know
That the human race is about to reap what it's sown

[/i]
From one of my fave choons.

Very true Rusty Spanner 🙂
There's that old thing about a bunch of philosophers discussing the concept of existence and the problem that it's hard to tie down what reality is and if we are as individuals real objects or just constructs of an imagination, or for that matter even if imagination really exists.
One of them sits quite quietly and when it comes to his round says "Anyone here who doesn't exist, put your hand up, because I'm not buying pints for imaginary people"

..and just to overturn the usual [i]science is a religion[/i] thing, it's actually the other way round.

Religion is very early, quite primitive science; it's an attempt to explain the universe using various theories with a helping of social construction on the side.

Unfortunately, the historical development of religion as science has painted it into a corner, leaving it unable to deal with the things that have come later, apart from imaginative reinterpretation.

Religion is very early, quite primitive science

I believe that this could be true. Equally, though, it could be stated that religion is an inadequate expression of the divine... and that the problem with atheism is that non-theists are left countering the precepts of dogma, rather than arguing truly against the existence of a divine unknown.

Non-theists don't have to argue against the existence of a divine unknown; the clue is in the name.

The logical extention becomes insulting; I don't argue against the existence of a whole number of things, so why am I not defined as a non unicornist, a non homeopathist, and so on.

There is no 'problem with atheism', there is only a problem with people who wish to ascribe problems to atheism.

Afternoon,

Have you all not got something more constructive to be doing.

Heh! 😀

No, God is there to fill a void of knowledge, it's a way people have of explaining things they don't understand, nothing wrong with that. But I'm happy enough knowing that I don't know everything and that we are just a part of the expanding universe.

I don't think it's a coincidence that our acceptance of god as a species seems to decrease as our knowledge of Science increases.

God - Member

Afternoon,

Have you all not got something more constructive to be doing.

Well if you have to ask, then your not an all knowing god!

What was Mary like in bed?

'God has gone wrong again.
He's taken my money and run,
I lost control of him I turned the switch and none of the lights came on.'

tyger - Member
Anyone want to discuss if there is a Devil?

What's to discuss?

[img] [/img]

NO, in my own opinion it is the biggest loads of bollox ever made up.

if you believe there is a bloke in a white robe sat behind a cloud you need to go and see somebody.

as stated above...

it's a way people have of explaining things they don't understand,

you cant argue with somebody who is a believer, check out dawkins interview with the arch bishop.

[b]BUT that is just my opinion, if people believe in god and it makes them a better person and happy who am i to argue.
[/b]

[i]if people believe in god and it makes them a better person and happy who am i to argue.[/i]

That's fine, until the logical extension becomes kill the unbeliever because the man who knows about God said so...

...and that is why questioning religious beliefs is important, that is why it should be open to criticism, that is why we should be able to hold religion up to the light and examine all its claims, that is why religion deserves no more respect than any other belief.