[Closed] Disciplining children

Have you discussed the pudding sanction yet?

In any case, we have let him stay home again today, but made him stay on his bed to read. He is not allowed off, save for using the toilet and coming down for lunch. Furthermore, he will not be allowed to stay up beyond what his younger siblings are allowed to stay up to

I was just about to chime in with "he should be made to stay in his room when he's off sick" when I read that, I think that's pretty much fair enough, sounds very reasonable to me.

If staying in bed and reading is preferable to school, then there has to be a reason why. Is there any pattern to his absences - e.g. sports or any event at school he would rather avoid?

Hmmm not sure, but I have noticed that slightly dodgy stomachs and anxiety can be related. I'm usually of the view that unless the child is actually vomiting then send them in and the school will let you know if they really are poorly. This is also the view of some of my kids' teachers.

If it is anxiety, get to the cause of this asap and sort it. Get your kid to tell you then sort coping strategies/ speak to the school/ bombers/wee - whatever needs doing. Don't let anything linger.

Yeah really difficult situation. Had it with one of ours and couldn't workout what was going on until we heard rumours of the teacher being old school and shouting at the kids. Our kid seemed to be a target and that was the issue. Unfortunately the school didn't seem to want to do much about it. 👿

Ask a few parents of friends to ask if anyone is picking on them?

The thing is, there is no real way of determining whether or not he is telling the truth when he says "I am sick".

Without wishing to give parenting advice to someone who has nearly three times the amount of children that I do......

We can almost always tell if they're genuinely ill or not.

If they're able to walk and there isn't anything runny coming out of them then it's off to school they go.

Hmmm not sure, but I have noticed that slightly dodgy stomachs and anxiety can be related.

Agreed. I'd have thought there was something causing this, even if it's just an unhappy school.

In any case, we have let him stay home again today, but made him stay on his bed to read.

That's what I was going to suggest. Make a fuss over him and extravagantly pamper him as if he were really sick - whilst making him stay in bed. 'OOh no, you can't possibly come downstairs to watch telly, you're far too sick' etc. He sounds very much like me, and that would have made me so embarassed and ashamed to be staying home.

But he probably does have the same problem I had with school, which is that it's shit. Difficult to get around that when you really want to be doing something else. I'm anti-authoritarian so I would not suggest iron discipline - instead looking for the cause of the issue and trying to ease that pain somehow. Sounds like school* is not working for him so perhaps speak to the teacher to get their impressions?

School was academically easy for me but deeply boring, and I'm predisposed to want to be somewhere else stimulating. And I had no friends which meant there was no social reason to want to be there either.

* I typed 'work' instead of school. I must identify with his problems 🙂

Following on from PP... make an appointment with your GP. If it's an actual illness then best start looking into it. If it's an excuse then that might be enough to "startle" them into not faking it, or opening up on the real reason.

anxiety, bullying etc. You need to check with teachers/school

Been through similar

But he probably does have the same problem [s]I had[/s] everyone has with school, which is that it's shit

Finally, there is no evidence of external factors - such as bullying, or other school difficulties - at play.

Are you 100% sure? kids can be incredibly good at hiding them and from what you are saying it sounds like there is a reason he doesn't want to go in.

The other side of this is that kids are also incredibly good at spotting weakness and exploiting it.

If you are fairly liberal about letting them stay off school they will ask to stay off school more often.

There may be nothing more to it than he prefers to stay in bed reading by himself than go to school and knows that , if he makes a fuss, you'll let him.

They can smell fear you know 😉

I will caveat this by saying that I am a bit Victorian Dad when it comes to this sort of thing. I'd have them sweeping chimneys to earn their keep if I could.

In any case, we have let him stay home again today

And written whilst I was writing my post

The other side of this is that kids are also incredibly good at spotting weakness and exploiting it.

I think this is the issue here – he may not like school but as has been said above – if they can walk and there is nothing clearly wrong with them then they go to school. As a parent it is normally very easy to tell if a child is ill or faking it. We sometimes get this a bit with one of our girls – she doesn't like school all the time and new terms are often hard work (after being with mummy and daddy during holidays). However we don't make a fuss when she starts to say she isn't feeling well or saying she doesn't want to go to school – we just tell her that unless she is ill she goes and we get to decide if she is ill. Sometimes we tell her to go and just tell a teacher if she feels ill during the day and we'll collect her. Not once has this course of action resulted in us taking a call from the school as soon as she gets there, she forgets she is meant to be ill and just gets on with it.

Have you looked for other potential issues outside of school?

You've made a perfectly valid assumption that there's something about school that he doesn't like, as opposed to thinking about there being a reason he'd prefer to be at home.

Has anything changed at home recently that might mean he'd prefer to be there?

The reason I say this is my (much younger) boy has been crying and refusing to go to school. They sound very similar in personality. However, when he's in school he totally loves it, and we had a meltdown last week because he then didn't want to come home from school on Friday and wanted to go all weekend.

The cause for us seems to be routine disruption from Christmas, and then my working patterns have changed so I've been stopping away in hotels a bit mid week.

The days he doesn't want to go to school match more to the days I work from home. Whilst he says he doesn't want to go to school, what he's really meaning is that he wants to stop with Daddy.

Have a google about school refusal.

Our daughter used to be very anti-school and it's still hard work getting her in there. She's autistic and her phases of being particularly reluctant seem to co-incide with either frustrations with the curriculum or friend dramas.

Speak to the teachers in the first instance.

I can relate to your kid. I was pretty much the same. Everyone thought I would come out of my 'shell' or it was 'just a phase' etc but I really couldn't be bothered with school or the people in it and I would come up with all different ways to get out of it, including just walking out when I felt like it. Being there all day really drained me. I wasn't shy or being bullied or needed helped or fixed. I just mostly prefered my own company and thoughts. It was just the way I was and still am and a lot of people have a hard time understanding why. To this day I still don't think I got much out of school. In fact I probably missed about a third of it in total if not more. Never really held me back either as I was quite capable and still done well in exams and what not and went on to university and have a good job.

Bit unfair to do it today, but next time it happens:

"You're sick, so I don't think you can go to that thing you really like doing at the weekend."

Sounds Aspie to me.

Another thought – if there is something happening at school which stops him from enjoying it, try to find school-based activities that he does enjoy so he doesn't see school as something to avoid.

This worked very well with our school-phobic girl – she does drum & piano lessons which she adores. She is also a very talented runner and gets picked for all sporting events (she was just team captain at an inter-school athletics competition which they won) so she has lots of things about school that she *does* like. It's just the academic stuff she doesn't get on with so well.

If you are fairly liberal about letting them stay off school they will ask to stay off school more often.

This is a can of worms.

If a kid does this, he has to know s/he is being dishonest. And if a kid chooses the dishonest path, then you need to figure out why this is happening. This is why I am anti-authoritarian. If a kid thinks the consequence of being naughty is just punishment, then if there's a way of avoid the punishment there's no issue. Kids need to know that being naughty is the wrong thing to do. And you have to define 'naughty' such that it doesn't include anything that the kid would consider reasonable. In our house 'naughty' is wilfully and knowingly doing something that you know has negative consequences. Not making mistakes, also not being unable to express yourself or address your problems.

Kids want to do the right thing by people they respect and care about, just like everyone else does.

Back on topic - the things that stimulated me as a kid were not available at school. Getting really into something properly technical and sciency, but also adventure and excitement. That would've made it easier to deal with the dullness, for me.

It's not naughty if you sanction it though.

"I have a sore tummy, Can I stay at home"

" Yes , that'll be fine"

If you draw a line they will repeatedly push against it without necessarily stepping over it.

Just draw the line further back.

Sounds Aspie to me.

Worth looking into if there's other signs but don't jump to conclusions. Kids can be introverted or not want to go to school for plenty of reasons (because it's shit).

I don't think it ever occurred to me that I should tell my parents about bullying, and to be honest I don't know what they could have done when most of the teachers ignored it. There's not going to be black eyes and stolen lunch money for you to see.

Find out why he doesn’t want to go to school.

It's not naughty if you sanction it though.
"I have a sore tummy, Can I stay at home"
" Yes , that'll be fine"

This is how it went when I was a kid:

I have a sore tummy.
Really?
Yes! Really honestly!
Cos you know, lying is really bad. I'd be really sad if you lied.
No, really, I'm poorly. *thinks* feeling uncomfortable now but have to keep this up
Ok you can stay home. I'll pamper you and keep you in bed and you can have plain simple food for your poorly tummy
Er.. ok... *feels embarrassed and ashamed a bit at first then more as the lie gets bigger and bigger and parent rubs it in by being overly caring*

Next day

How's your tummy?
Fine.
Are you sure? Need to stay home again?
No, I'm fine!

This is how it went when I was a kid:

I have a sore tummy.

Really? Take it easy with the School Dinners then......Have a nice day at school....Bye!

This is how it went when I was a kid:

I have a sore tummy.

Really? No sweets for you then.

Mine was more like this:

"I don't want to go to school. I think I have a sore tummy"
"I don't believe you. Is something up?"
"No"
"Tell the truth"
"Ok, some boys are picking on me and hitting me"
"Have you fought back?"
"No. I don't know how to and they are bigger than me"
"Right then, i'll teach you something about fighting"

Are you the Karate Kid Yak?

Yep, with me it was "I have a sore tummy", and my mum would say, "Ok, I'll just get the milk of magnesia. That'll sort you out!" The threat of that foul stuff pretty much cured me in an instant. 😛

Haha no. Just the only non-white kid in school and needed some confidence to hit back. Once done a few times all was sorted and no more bother. Once you are not a soft target, no-one will try it on.

"Right then, i'll teach you something about fighting"

Do not concentrate on the finger, or you will miss all of the heavenly glory?

Kid: But Daddy, I don't want to fight. Fighting is bad.
Dad: No, violence is the answer. The solution to violence is more violence.

Next day

Kid: Daddy, I tried to fight but they kicked the shit out of me anyway cos there were five of them.
Dad: We need even more violence. Take the fight to them. We need to train you to be a lethal weapon, that will fix everything.
Kid: Ok 🙁

A year later

Kid: Sensei, I met the five bullies and beat them senseless.
Dad: My son, you have acted with honour. Enjoy your victory.

Next week:

Kid: Dad, this time there were nine of them and they had sticks. They ambushed me and severely beat me.
Dad: Ah, now I realise the futility of violence.

^ yeah, like that, but more welsh 😀

I don't think disciplining is as important in this case as finding out why/if there really is a problem.

You could always try the prison service route, go sick on a Friday morning & you don't come out for association all weekend.

Only the absolute genuine cases go sick on a Friday! 😆

Once you are not a soft target, no-one will try it on.

Wrong.

I punched my tormentors regularly. They always went straight down, cos I was big and strong. Made no difference though, they kept on tormenting me.

[quote=Drac ]Find out why he doesn’t want to go to school.

This sums it up. I know you say there isn't anything obvious, but if you're sure he's "faking it" then there must be something, you might just have to dig deeper.

No direct experience with kids here, I'm fortunate enough to have two kids who both seem to love going to school and as far as I'm aware haven't ever faked illness to skive - have had the school send them home a couple of times though! Though I know that personally when the anxiety gets high enough it starts to manifest in physical symptoms which feel real enough.

What if they aren't physically hitting you? You hit them back anyway?

Seriously - tit for tat is not going to help at all.

Sorry to hear that molgrips.
Worked for me back then. Maybe I was lucky. Maybe there were easier targets?

[quote=molgrips ]A year later
Kid: Sensei, I met the five bullies and beat them senseless.

Dad: Ah, that's why you're suspended from school

I think the standing up for yourself thing is situation dependent - depends how and why the bullying is happening.

Molgrips school days.....before he got the costume.

[img] [/img]

I think the standing up for yourself thing is situation dependent - depends how and why the bullying is happening.

We are fairly liberal when it comes to letting our kids stay home when necessary, but obviously there are lines

What if they aren't physically hitting you? You hit them back anyway?

No. You need another strategy.
The hitting back thing isn't about violence being the answer. It's about the kid not being a target for bullying. Nothing more.

Kid: But Daddy, I don't want to fight. Fighting is bad.
Dad: No, violence is the answer. The solution to violence is more violence.

Look to the US for an answer. If everybody has lots of guns, there will be no violence. Apparently.

I am of the opinion that we can pretty much say what we want to children about what is right or wrong, but in the end they follow our example

Generally true of adults too. "Do what I say, not what I do" doesn't work too well for management.

Generally true of adults too. "Do what I say, not what I do" doesn't work too well for management.

I was never bullied at school.
Always had lots of friends.
High achiever academically, and found it easy.
Teachers never targeted me as I was pretty good really, and there were far easier, and more deserving targets.

But....I still disliked school mostly, and would have preferred occasional days on my own in my room pretending to be ill if I could ever get away with it. Didn't really ever happen though, as it was ingrained that I had to attend.

So OP, there [i]might[/i] not be anything wrong, he might just hate (or slightly dislike) school. I'd say that was fairly normal, as back when I was there, it was pretty crappy. It might just be that he needs to learn he has to go regardless.

I think the standing up for yourself thing is situation dependent - depends how and why the bullying is happening.

That's exactly what I was going to type.

Reading a lot into the above statement, it does come across that perhaps you don’t value school that greatly and that maybe your child does not see the ‘lines’.

Although I won't go into personal details I am pretty sure that's not the case with the OP!

I do know what you mean but just to add to the recent experiences in our house (and we do have a daughter that is finding school quite tough currently and has played the 'sick' card a few times recently)

Daughter: I have a tummy ache
Parent; Have you been sick, do you feel sick
D; No
P; I'm sure it'll pass then get your coat
D; OK

Some time later

School; Can you get your daughter, she really doesn't feel well

D; it's really quite painful now
P; OK, to the doctors then
Doctor; err - casualty, straight away please
A&E Doc; that's an appendix
Surgeon; that's coming out shortly
Parents; sorry we didn't believe you but just shows you can't cry wolf.

Drac +1

Go to school and discuss. Could be a simple issue, could be bullying

First priority would be to check that IMO

Good luck

He is a largely honest kid who tends to like to live on his own. He is deeply introverted but quite confident at the same time. He has no debilitating underlying issues: although he is a sensitive kid who can get anxious about things, he doesn't really let such things get in the way of doing stuff. Finally, there is no evidence of external factors - such as bullying, or other school difficulties - at play.

You could be describing my middle child here. A lovely and well liked boy, who gets on well with other kids when he's interested in what they're doing, but when they aren't he chooses to do his own thing that interests him rather than something that's doesn't just to be sociable. And he is very much a home boy. End of the holidays and Sunday evenings he gets very sad and teary and doesn't want to go to school. He can't give a reason, he just doesn't want to go. We are 99% sure that it's just that he wants to be with his family all the time, and doesn't want to be anywhere else. We let him have a cry, but still make him go to school, and as soon as he's there he's absolutely fine. I think it's just that his favourite place to be is at home with his mum and dad.

[quote=theotherjonv ]I do know what you mean but just to add to the recent experiences in our house (and we do have a daughter that is finding school quite tough currently and has played the 'sick' card a few times recently)

Not had appendicitis here, but as alluded above they've been sent home by school having not been sure about how serious/genuine the illness was in the morning. As I mentioned my kids like school, but I suspect they'd still rather stay home and Xbox.

My youngest occasionally pretends to be ill but i generally keep him off as there's been a few times when i thought he was bluffing that i had to go and collect him early as he wasn't spoofing. Trick is to make them do more school work at home than they'll ever do at school. Sums, writing stories, drawing pictures etc. Make it so a day off from school 'sick' is a nightmare. And no Xbox etc until after hometime 😀

So here I am today at home with a sick child with that old chestnut 'poorly tummy'.

And an ill dog.

And an ill dog.

What's his excuse?

My lass is home today as well. She does look like death warmed up though, so unless she's got really good at spoofing it, I'm going to give her a pass.

My wife's home ill too. But she is properly ill. She still wanted to go to work though, I had to make her call in sick!

I did this. When I was at secondary school, I would quite often have time off because I had a “migraine”. My mother gets migraines, so I think that was a good excuse, you don’t need to exhibit any difficult symptoms.

Why did I do it? I’m not absolutely certain. Perhaps some of it in earlier years started because of bullying. Perhaps I was also bored in school, the only helpful advice I can give is that I grew out of it, and it didn’t impact my grades or prospects.

Why can't he just do what everyone else used to do, and set off for school as usual, then bunk off and go shoplifting in the Arndale?

What's his excuse?

molgrips - Member
My wife's home ill too. But she is properly ill. She still wanted to go to work though, I had to make her call in sick

It's okay, mol: I'm home too.

Possibly her fault 🙂

Teachers point of view. Ask the school if there is anything to cause this and unless he is puking or has a high temperature send the little skiver in.

Some days you just really feel like not going to work / school.. could just be one of those days where he just can't arsed to go to school.