[Closed] Disability living seems like easy money

For those genuine claimants I've total respect, you deserve all you can get out of the system, I just have seen this one unfolding over several years and I just don't believe It is genuine. Probably was an internal whinge getting out through the filter that normally keeps it in. Still the Singletrack forum crew will Reset things and recalibrate things....cheers all 🙂 now where was that copy of the Daily Mail.....

Dad died after collapsing at a bus stop on his way to a hospital appointment. Had lupus, diabetes and heart failure. Apparently 'qualified' for only lowest level of DLA - right at end of life. Not sick enough...

So no, I'm not in support of tougher criteria of benefit and yes, yes I'm ****ing bitter even 5 years later.

Bloody hell Overshoot that's tough, you deserve one hell of a pint or two if we were ever to meet.

.

For those genuine claimants I've total respect, you deserve all you can get out of the system

Disability living seems like easy money

seems like it.

Someone in my neighbourhood who I occasionally talk to, tells me she's on higher rate disability living allowance, and can't work because her shoulders dislocate, which is strange as she told me some time ago that she had an operation to basically "bolt them in", but when I see her pick up her Labrador and carry it down the road they seem fine! But she also told me that she gets carers allowance for looking after her son who also gets higher rate disability living allowance (although he can ride his bike to school 4 miles away on the days he doesn't get himself to and from high school, and plays badminton for the county team), whilst her husband gets careers allowance for looking after her ! As for walking she's able to walk the 3dogs she has for miles, so in this case it does seem a good scam .....oh the doctor said she was fine, but she appealed as the doctor was biased because they had complained about him some years previously....why is there no way to get these things reported, so the money does go to those who do genuinely need it ?

😆

This reminds me of a phoney I once knew, some moron who just came up with pretend rants nobody really gave a damn about. He was a sad occurrence though, he really was. You know the part that really got me. The part that sometimes he was actually funny. Stuff like that always kills me. It really does.

A question, do you want a safety net and accept some abusing it, or no safety net?

There is no way you can make a system that has no abuse, so don't even bother suggesting that.

Drac - Moderator

Bloody hell Overshoot that's tough, you deserve one hell of a pint or two if we were ever to meet.

Used to come up to Northumberland for a holiday as we found some really good self catering cottages near Morpeth, not been the last 2 years as the last time nearly killed me.
May try again next year and get the In Laws to fly up.

Will give you a shout deffo

mrmo - Member
A question, do you want a safety net and accept some abusing it, or no safety net?...

The problem is those who do not want it have no empathy for those who need it and can never envisage needing it themselves one day, but life is more random than they can possibly imagine.

That and the number of people abusing the system is almost certainly astonishingly lower than most people would guess, despite what the tabloids and apocryphal anecdotes would have us believe. It'd be hard to measure with any sort of reliability though - how do you measure people acting fraudulently without also catching them and preventing them from doing it, thus reducing the known total to zero?

Plus as I said at the top of this page, successfully applying for PIP is not trivial. The process is lengthy, complicated and appears to be inherently designed to make you fail.

Will give you a shout deffo

Please do and I will take you for a deserved pint.

You're a true reflection of how great people really are.

Obvious tr..........

Oh I can't even be bothered with that, it's too tiresome.

[img] [/img]

It's very rare, IME.
I've seen one example I was unhappy with in about 10 years?

Much more prevalent is financial abuse of the individual by friends and family members.
Some nasty people out there.

Agree with you completely about the PIP application process, deliberately designed to frustrate and humiliate.

A couple I know, a Social Worker and hugely experienced Care Worker recently helped another friend with his application.
They struggled, even with all the contacts and knowledge available to them.

Love to all.

MrOvershoot. That's unbelievably hard. I don't know what to say, everything I've thought of since reading your post seems meaningless and empty. So sorry.

The OP is a **** and I claim my £5

I may have had a pint or 6, but I think my spidey senses still work. Just don't swat me with you daily mail.

The OP is a **** and I claim my £5

Not without filling in a 41 page form in exactly the right way and then at least two appeals you won't.

There are plenty of times that many disabilities are not obvious and there are no doubt some who are successfully defrauding the system (although I'd hazard fewer than the Daily Fail would suggest) and also many who should be getting and don't.

You won't get all the fraudsters in the same way you won't get all the speeding drivers. That doesn't mean that you should axe the system and it doesn't mean longer forms either because all that does is cause more distress and doesn't on the face of it produce such good results. Better to have a system than not.

I suspect that the current system is fundamentally flawed for the reasons that Mr overshoot and cougar expressed (too much paper, too much variation in outcomes and the usual exposure to whether you get the sloppy, clock watcher or the devoted vocational type looking at it all, lengthy appeals process).

Back to the OP point, if you really think it's fraud then report it.

If you really genuinely think that somebody is fraudulently claiming benefits then [url= https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud ]you can report it.[/url]

Just having a read through, I think the basic point is that there are some people milking it, no doubt. But most aren't, obviously.
It would be good if those milking it were stopped and the extra bit of cash was shared around those that need it. I guess that's the point of the more complex forms etc, but it's missed the mark in some cases, not in others. If everyone was honest, the world would be a better place.

The medical profession is missing out on some talented geniuses. If only doctors could diagnose disabilities by just a cursory look instead of needing several years of training.

Luckily there's employment for those talented geniuses in the corridors of our government's [s]genocide programme[/s] disability assessment contractors.

PeterPoddy - Member
I guess that's the point of the more complex forms etc, but it's missed the mark in some cases, not in others.

Pete, it would be different if that WAS the point, but it isn't.

Mr O's example from the previous page:

Preparing a meal for yourself, do you use adapted cutlery?"
YES
NO
SOMETIMES

Any of the given answers can be taken to mean that the applicant CAN prepare a meal independently.

Many people cannot eat without assistance, let alone prepare a meal.
Many people cannot eat or swallow at all.
They may be able to eat SOME food using adapted cutlery, under supervision.

It's a very clever question designed to discount as many people as possible.

Combined with up to 50% cuts to community mental health teams, closures of day centres (which can be someone's entire life away from their home) etc I cannot see this as anything but a deliberate attempt to attack the most vulnerable.

Rusty+1. Worth remembering though, that some of these changes began in the Blair years...

Mrs Binners was until recently working with two disability charities

Be under no illusions. The present system is explicitly designed to deny benefits to the most vulnerable people in society.

If a society is judged on how it treats the weakest, then our society has failed quite profoundly

If a society is judged on how it treats the weakest, then our society has failed quite profoundly

My view entirely.

Any of the given answers can be taken to mean that the applicant CAN prepare a meal independently.

Many people cannot eat without assistance, let alone prepare a meal.
Many people cannot eat or swallow at all.
They may be able to eat SOME food using adapted cutlery, under supervision.

Oh yeah that's a shitty question that's not been thought through. If I were filling in that form I'd cross that out and write 'unable to prepare own meals' or ' no use of hands, can't hold cutlery at all' or something to that effect.
It not the first crap question I've seen in a benefits form, and I doubt it's the last. It's not in the same league, granted, but the shit I had to put up with for my unemployment benefit for 2.5 months was astonishing. They really really look down on you, and I guess that's the same with disability benefits. I'm just blunt and confident enough to tell 'em to poke it and get on with their job.

Preparing a meal for yourself, do you use adapted cutlery?"
YES
NO
SOMETIMES

Any of the given answers can be taken to mean that the applicant CAN prepare a meal independently.

I hadn't spotted that. It's basically "when did you stop beating your wife" isn't it.

Be under no illusions. The present system is explicitly designed to deny benefits to the most vulnerable people in society.

I'd like to believe that it wasn't intentional, but that was exactly the feeling I got from it.

We had help with the forms from a counsellor and from a disability rights warrior who was very familiar with the process, we explained on the forms in great detail exactly what areas she struggled with (which took days to complete) and then as I said earlier, after the assessment we came away with total 'disability points' score of zero. Ditto after an appeal.

Now, I could totally understand that in their opinion she wasn't eligible for the benefits, though I'd think it a shocking miscarriage of a decision; but a total of zero? That's simply corrupt, someone somewhere is taking the piss.

What makes me incandescent about the whole thing is, we had help and still that's what happened. The initial interview was botched, and it was a face-to-face interview with my wife who's Aspie. For the appeal her counsellor accompanied her but wasn't allowed to speak (though in fairness, I'm not 100% certain whether that was actually their process or she'd misunderstood). So how on earth is someone with more severe disabilities supposed to be expected to fill out a huge form (I can't remember exactly how long, someone earlier said 41 pages and that sounds about right, A4 sized) and handle multiple face-to-face interrogations? Can you imagine putting someone more heavily autistic through that process? It'd be wicked and cruel, and should be criminal.

Still, hey, I expect the claimant stats have fallen, the government must be doing a great job of rounding up all those frauds and scroungers.

Cougar - Did you consider getting your MP involved?

Edit: it does appear that these companies appointed by the Government operate on some sort of commission basis. I've heard from various thyroid forums that these investigators lie and falsify answers to questions. It's disgraceful.

I suggested that but by that point she was exhausted (this had rattled on for months on end) and just wanted an end to the process. I was spitting blood, but I couldn't pursue it further without her being on board and I didn't want to prolong the agony.

I did wonder whether it was some sort of quota system; they can't give any more awards once they'd reached their total. Purely speculation on my part though. We have a friend who was going through the same process at around the same time, she's got similar issues to the ones my wife had only less severe and she got awarded PIP at the higher rate. Only difference is she lives in a more affluent area than we do.

Yes, I would imagine the whole process is draining. I saw my MP a few months back to discuss the discrimination I'm now experiencing, due to Lyme disease, at my GP Surgery. MP was very interested and offered to help. I did decline but am now thinking of talking with MP again as the surgery are now ignoring a letter from an NHS consultant.

I know this website is used by some on the thyroid forums, you do have to pay a subscription though.

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/forum/index?view=category

Edit: definitely worth getting hold of all medical records which you're legally entitled to although there will be a charge:

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1309.aspx?CategoryID=68&SubCategoryID=160

I did wonder whether it was some sort of quota system; they can't give any more awards once they'd reached their total. Purely speculation on my part though.

Nope.

I did wonder whether it was some sort of quota system; they can't give any more awards once they'd reached their total

Their is a politicised agenda to make anyone fit for work whatever the medical condition hence the clearly legitimate cases being classed as fit to work

I know a few horrors

1. Man waiting for triple bypass [after serious heart attack] in scooter with oxygen tank forced to look for work as he waited for the operation- about 4 weeks ish

2. A woman who had a serous back injury after a car accident requiring a series of operation with 23 hours per day spent face down to place no strain on the back classed as fit for work. her consultants letter stating his credentials, publications and awards as well as his diagnosis, whilst asking for the Dr expertise in this area, was a think of beauty to read.

3. Woman classed as fit to work by Dr. Finds jobs has assessment by company and fails the fitness to work test for the company
It was the same doctor doing both tests

4. From the papers - woman recieved news[ by letter from DwP] that she was fit to work on the day she died from the condition.

BASTARDS - its heartbreaking to have to deal with sort of thing. Its a ****ing national disgrace I wonder what folks reaction would be if the papers were full of these stories rather than benefit scrounger tirades

I wonder why the BMA do not go after the Drs and withdraw their licence and the Dr's really should be independent of DwP and the rules should be made by doctors.

Essentially the rule basically seems to be if you can cross your room to pick up a phone sometimes, make a sandwich and have unaided toilet trips then you are fit for work.

Where are the employers for people with these disabilities?

[i]Rusty Spanner - Member Any of the given answers can be taken to mean that the applicant CAN prepare a meal independently.

Many people cannot eat without assistance, let alone prepare a meal.
Many people cannot eat or swallow at all.
They may be able to eat SOME food using adapted cutlery, under supervision.[/i]

PeterPoddy - Oh yeah that's a shitty question that's not been thought through. If I were filling in that form I'd cross that out and write 'unable to prepare own meals' or ' no use of hands, can't hold cutlery at all' or something to that effect.

PP that's exactly what I did on the forms including the signature bit where I said my wife who used to do calligraphy would love to even be able to hold a pen never mind do a meaningful signature.

Thanks for all the support on here from various people you really don't know how much it helps.

Its come to the point a few times where I hate to say it I thought it would be better for both of us if we were dead & gone to end our suffering!

Tonight while I was feeding her her supper she looked at me with such a trusting love I was ashamed of such thoughts.

For any others caring for people I hope your OK and all the best of bloody luck

My daughter claims DLA for our grandson. He has some mobility issues, and a couple of health problems, not in my opinion enough to warrant a payment from the state. She claims a lowish level of carers allowance too.

However, shes's entitled to it and she claims it. Makes life easier for the lad and for her.

She had help in filling out the claims form from a council worker who knew what to say, and what not to say.

Life's just a game, you got to know the rules.

Life's just a game, you got to know the rules.

😐

She had help in filling out the claims form from a council worker who knew what to say, and what not to say.

Creeping into education too, Mrs B is a SENCO and often has to support families (as often the parents have issues that just weren't acknowledged in their school days) to even get to the point they are considered for help. How many even then don't get it is heartbreaking for her. It's scary that there are tactics being developed to get it though an ATOS filter.

Fraudulent types? 1/100 if that. Seems a decent return to me.

I have to give a positive review to the PIP thingy people, sorted my mum right out, give her a lift in the house and alsorts of aids that just make her life easier. She gets payments too.

I've no other experience of the PIP system, but it has worked for my mum.

I would say one thing though, she knew someone that knew how to properly fill out the forms though and helped her, so I guess that helped a lot.

Definitely took pressure right off her.

If she was alone, I doubt she'd even know the help was available to her. So I can see some good and bad in this.

I guess the defining line is whether you get an award or not. And that will make all the difference.

After the fact they are good, but if they are denying people help that genuinely need it, well that's just out of order tbh, I hope no-one ever finds themselves out in the cold that way..

If that means a some people take advantage of the system, so we can ensure everyone gets the help they need, in a dignified manner. Well, so be it imo.

brassneck - Member
Fraudulent types? 1/100 if that. Seems a decent return to me.

Creeping into education too, Mrs B is a SENCO and often has to support families (as often the parents have issues that just weren't acknowledged in their school days) to even get to the point they are considered for help. How many even then don't get it is heartbreaking for her. It's scary that there are tactics being developed to get it though an ATOS filter.

To be honest I didn't recognise the child they were describing.

All true, but she certainly knew how to big it up.

Fraudulent types? 1/100 if that. Seems a decent return to me.

I looked at some stats for (obviously estimated, how they do that gods only know) benefit fraud a few days ago. disability benefit fraud is the lowest of the lot, it's like 0.5% IIRC.

Benefits fraud is in the order of half a percent, yes.

My wife helps to run the local food bank. They get up to 20 families each week. In the last few years, she's only had one couple through that she thought were taking the piss with the Daily Mail stereotype brand new phones, PS4, etc.

It does boil ones piss doesn't it.

Sorry to be poitical but Corbyn wants to support the weakest in society and he's seen as a fruitloop, whereas the Tories are punishing the weakest to save pennies. As I say boils my piss.

Mr Overshoot your wife is so lucky to have you, I want to say congratulations for being such a top bloke.

A man rang into a 5Live phone in about his severly autistic son, he was basically wrestling with a teenage boy everyday. The boy went to the toilet wherever he stood, was aggressive etc (seriously as bad as you can imagine) and the dad just wanted some help looking after him because he was at the end of his tether. It was heartbreaking seriously. Wouldn't it be good if we had a system that gave people all the help they need? Not just bare minimum. I know, magic money tree and all that. FFS. Maybe higher rate tax payers can have the option of a bit more tax or caring for a disabled/senile person once a week?

Benefits fraud costs the government about £1.3bn a year.

Quantative easing august, £475bn. hmmm..

I've got an idea, why don't we just create money to help people. Send it direct to source rather than through the middlemen. Will most likely have a better economy boosting effect.

That £475bn is an interesting number btw.

£475bn/ 65million people - £7,307 quid. Essentially the level UBI would be set at if it ever happened.

...whereas the Tories are punishing the weakest to save pennies.

I think that it goes beyond saving a few pennies - I think that there's a concerted effort to make the lives of poor and sick people a misery, the fact that it actually costs the country more is immaterial to those in power.

If I were a cynic, I'd think that they were trying to create a market for private sickness insurance which is yet another thing that poor people will have to pay for, which is fine because they all have an obesity epidemic anyway.

/cynic.

As I say boils my piss.

Mine too. I'd like to see IDS having to defend himself and his liberty in a court very soon.

She had help in filling out the claims form from a council worker who knew what to say, and what not to say.

Life's just a game, you got to know the rules.

Pretty sure that is the same rule that google, amazon, facebook, starbucks etc. followed when they play.

Back on topic - you have a choice, pay some people who don't deserve it or don't pay some people who do...