DINKS and DINKWADS of STW

Despite having 5 kids between us, we have quite a few DINKY friends, doesn't seem such a bad way of life 🤔

FWIW the majority of friends that I run/ride/walk with have no kids (dogs feature largely though), making me the odd one out. I suspect that's a bit of an anomaly due to where I live. Many folk move here due to the outstanding access to outdoor activities and they've chosen not to have kids due to their hobbies.

We're Dual Income Kid of Hands (DIKOH!?)

and are planning or expecting kids and as a result it’s made us feel a bit cast out,

It just happens like that - but it doesn't last. We have nothing to do with any of the parents we socialised with while our daughter was at school (she's now 21). You end up being 'friends' because your kids are friends with theirs and it's convenient.

I’ve spent my adult life happily as a DINK and a DINKWAS (the dogs sadly passed away at a wonderful old age). Now in my 50’s, with a partner in his 60’s who has 2 adult daughters and now grandkids, so we have interesting discussions from both our experiences.

From my perspective, life with no children has been positive, rewarding, giving, supporting and loving. All that some people put into their children, I have been able to give to others (be that family members, friends, or people in society who need volunteers to offer support). Plus I have loved my dogs and given them a long and happy life. So psychologically I feel that I have had a great life being able to offer a lot to others, in large part because I have had spare time and energy as it has not been taken up by having children.

My friends are a great mix of both parents and child free, and we just socialise in different ways. Equally, I have dog owning friends and non-dog friends too 😄

In addition, I’ve been able to put a lot of time and flexibility into my job, working on protecting nature and the environment, which I care deeply about and will hopefully benefit not just the planet but also future generations.

So from my perspective, I have had no loss of love, no lack of giving, and a rewarding life. There are many benefits to a life without children - for you and your partner, your family and friends, and society as a whole.

Same position but older so had 20+ years of friends who have kids but we do not. Yes it's a pain trying to arrange stuff when all your buddies have the kid excuse or demands but I just ride or do things solo then.
We have lots, in fact 95% of our friends have kids, most of them moan incessantly about it 🤣 but it's never made us feel like outsiders

The upside is holidays are cheaper as you can go outside of school holidays!

Mrs TJ and I decided to be DINKS  A decision we never regretted.  The freedom it gives you is what we really wanted and used a lot.

I have friends with kids but I did find that over the years you tend to drift away from the pals with kids and not the other DINKs - simply because your lives are different.  Most of the folk I see locally are DINKS but a couple have grown up kids now.

My guess is this is going to be an adjustment period for you.  If you were expecting to have kids then its totally reasonable to feel like that but you will adapt. Hard when the decision is made for you

We have friends who have been DINKS but not by choice. They found a lot of 'friends' really did not get how hard it was in the early days, and how much fold with kids focussed on nothing but their kids. It led to some evaluating of friendships, and an effort to connect with folk without kids or through activities. We always made an effort to socialise with and without our kids - and I think it shows our friendship is still strong.

I think they have a great balance of things, and in fact I am rather envious of the lifestyle that no kids and a good (consultant doctor) job gets them! They get involved in a lot of community bits and pieces, have great holidays, an amazing house and garden etc.

Although we live at other ends of the country now, we meet up twice a year to ride bikes or canoe, to drink whisky and enjoy life.

Sort of similar here - some friends with kids, some without.

Keep involved with the ones with kids - they will want some non=kid time, and adult conversations that don't involve kids. You can also get involved with the kid activities too, all the fun without the responsibility.

I've a few uni mates from 30 years ago who we still see, and we've known their kids since they were born. They're starting to graduate uni now!

And as above - you have more freedom and different options to those with kids. Your plan sounds great!

We're DINKWADs (although the dog came after we'd made the decision). For us it was the fact that the amount of stress trying to have kids was causing totally outweighed how much we wanted it. Also seeing how much stress adoption and IVF caused others.

We're generally happy, although my wife finds it harder as there is more of an expectation for women. The ability to do whatever we want and also having less stress about the state of the world helps.

Have an affair each, that's spice things up a bit.

As alluded to above - make an effort with the folk with kids.  Both to give the parents a bit of adult time and to get to know the kids
I did this both with my nephews and my godless children and am reaping the reward with a decent relationship with them even tho they are all now adults in their 30s and 40s even tho we live in differnt countries

being the interesting / mischievous uncle / aunt is a great fun role.  Buy them water pistols, have a pot of slime in your pocket, teach them to make a drumkit out of pots and pans, buy them lego and sit with them an build interesting stuff etc etc

In seriousness,

I'm not convinced that a lack of responsibility is the issue here, which is what having a child or a dog will change.

Rather. your friends are (understandably) increasingly busy as time rolls on. It happens. I'm planning going for beer and a curry with a few mates, there's four of us including me, we've just pencilled in a Thursday at the end of September as the first time we're all available, and I noticed it's a couple of weeks short of the one-year anniversary of the creation of the WhatsApp group where one of us went "hey, let's go for beer and a curry!"

Socialising as an adult takes effort, it's not like being a teenager where you've got something on at least weekly if not daily and you're having to choose between three different invites for places. You need to be proactive. "Hey, do you want to come over on Saturday, we'll watch a film and get pizza" is likely going to be way more effective than "hey, we should do something at some point." I moved house, went "hey everyone, open invite!" and saw no-one. It was only when I started making actual plans and targeting people that I saw my friends again (though covid didn't help here either).

Or, you have a hot and sweaty Internet connection, host a 'pub' quiz night over Zoom one evening, it's considerably easier for people to do stuff if their first consideration isn't "well, I'd love to, but I can't get a babysitter..."

Also, if your social circle has dried up, are there any clubs you could join or hobbies you could try? Group rides? Board games?

I don't think it'll make much difference what you want. If she was set on kids or changes her mind in a few years then it'll either happen or break the relationship. (IANAD)

“Hey, do you want to come over on Saturday, we’ll watch a film and get pizza” is likely going to be way more effective than “hey, we should do something at some point.”

This so much.  Over the last two years I have made a real effort with this and also if someone says " we should meet up sometime" I say " great - how about tuesday?  "Shall I pop round to yours after tea with a bottle of wine?"   Also with pals with kids you might have to go to theirs much more than they come to you.

I'm a SINK.

I'm 50, and live with my mother. For various reasons I never settled down with someone.

I'm quite content, and have a good quality of life, but it's taken me a while to get here.

In my mid-thirties I did go through a period of worrying about "last kid in the playground (no one left to play with)" syndrome, which sounds similar to what you're worrying about @eatmorepizza.

I think that what sets me apart is that I'm also a GP, so I get to see all aspects of different people's lives and what doesn't make people happy.

The truth of the matter is that although being in a good relationship can be better than being single, being in a bad one is worse. Often much worse.

Being a parent isn't intrinsically better than not being one, it's just different. Different opportunities, different compromises.

Whenever I see someone vehemently saying that their particular life choice is superior to another I always wonder who it is that they're trying to convince.

Some of the unhappiest people I know are unhappy because of their families. Similarly there are some people for whom their only source of happiness is their family, which I think is a shame.

I got a bit of therapy (precipitated by another life event) and made some changes, did some work on myself. Pursuing happiness itself is a fool's errand, but what we can do (and I did) is foster the circumstances where we are most likely to feel fulfilled. Happiness sometimes follows.

In my view the trick is learning self-compassion and making the most of the opportunities that come to us, no matter what our circumstances are.

Great post Kramer!

@footflaps, thank you.

Whenever I see someone vehemently saying that their particular life choice is superior to another I always wonder who it is that they’re trying to convince.

Bingo.

And it's almost always "but it's different when they're your own."

You want kids, good for you. I'm sure they're great. But it ain't mandatory. Aggressive breeders are a pain in the arse. "So when are you starting a family, then? We've done it, why haven't you?!" Well, actually my partner (at the time) has had a double oophorectomy for health reasons so probably not in the immediate future.

And it’s almost always “but it’s different when they’re your own.”

Or "you wouldn't understand, not being a parent."

I always make it clear when giving advice to parents that although I'm very familiar with the instructions, I've never assembled the kit so their experience may vary. Plus being a parent is hard.

Interesting to hear all of your replies, particularly around the friendship aspect.

@scruffythefirst It was actually me who was wanting them more I'd say and me who pushed to go to the docs about it, however I'm aware some kids make me broody and others are like a living contraceptive ad, the news was definitely harder for me than my spouse I believe and she is the one keeping us both with a positive outlook throughout this.

@cougar I've found keeping and making friends harder as I've been getting older, I've discovered the past few years that I tick all the boxes for being neurodivergent and I have a small social battery, this is drained 3x as fast when its a 1-1 scenario with someone else who I'm unfamiliar with, my brains always racing trying to think of things to talk about and analysing my behaviour with them and adjusting on the fly. I've considered joining some group rides but as I'm a big bloke I worry I'll slow everyone down as I'm not the fastest on the climbs, I also have anxieties about chatting and making friends within a group incase my social battery bonks and I run out of things to say, but at the same time it does get pretty tiring riding solo all of the time! I've been in a few clubs for other various hobbies the past 10 years or so, target shooting and field archery notably but have found for me (this maybe the neurodivergent part of my brain here) I've always found it feels inauthentic in terms of you only have friendship within the boundaries of the hobby and club.

I've got 2 really good friends I speak with daily who are both very similiar to me so we rarely see each other and we have no hobbies in common, our wider social circle is mostly my wifes friends and their partners who I all get on well with but I only see if it's couples events

From the other side of the fence one of my best mates is no kids and I feel constantly guilty as I am hard to arrange day trips and weekends away. I feel very grateful he still makes the effort to do fun things with me.

I started as a DINKY and became a DINKWADS (although the pup concerned is a guide dog so he won't be staying unless it goes wrong). We have friends with and without kids, it's undoubtably harder for the friends with kids but when we do meet up a good time is had by everyone.

I don't feel that my life has been diminished in anyway for not having had children, there's too many humans as it is. You are going to find it hard for a while, especially if you both wanted children initially.

SIDtDKGU here. Not very catchy, but must be a few of us

Single Income Due to Divorce Kid(s) Grown Up.

Lack of responsibilities can be nice, but one income -whereas that was fine, the current climate has made it not so much fun.

Whenever I see someone vehemently saying that their particular life choice is superior to another I always wonder who it is that they’re trying to convince

100%. there are always going to be regrets but some people will deny them and hide behind their way is the only way.

Or “you wouldn’t understand, not being a parent.”

Oh, I've had that on this very forum, more than once. And you know, I think they're absolutely right, I don't understand. I have no frame of reference here.

I don't want kids in the same way I don't want a giraffe or a sailboat. I'm sure they're nice enough and all, but where would I put it? I simply lack that gene, and ironically I can trace it back through the male side of my lineage.

(Actually, a giraffe would be pretty cool, that's a bad example.)

I thonk Kramer nails it.

Our kids are now 16 and 20. They've been amazing, i wouldn’t change anything for the world, and a lot of our local friends we've met through kids activities.

We also have friends who have no kids, who seem to live amazing exciting lives, or are about to retire mid 50s.

Also friends who have adopted, and seen the good and bad sides of that, and those who've gone the IVF route, either successfully or disastrously.

Its a choice only you as a couple can make. Not having kids doesn’t mean you can't be amazing aunts and uncles for family, or friends and neighbours, or support local sports or other youth organisations if you wanted to.

SIHAK - Single income, her adult kids. We see them regularly and they bring us their problems and worries but also some happiness. After 30 odd years it is beginning to sort itself out I guess.

DINK by choice here, so admittedly there are differences to you being unwillingly forced into it by circumstance.

There's plenty of us about. Find new friends* which will probably be those who share a hobby or interest with one or both of you. Or if  you're very lucky, your immediate neighbours.

Ideally you'd both have some individual friends and some couple friends. Couple friends doesnt have to be other couples, just ones that the two of you spend time with together.

*and I certainly don't mean ditch the old ones! just be aware they are going to have other priorities and less time for you now; so you'll need a wider netweork to fill in the gaps.

At the risk of gender stereotyping, blokes tend to need an "activity" to do with their friends, more than women do. Friday night in the pub talking bollox til closing time might be the first thing your time crunched parent-friends choose to ditch. Wednesday night five-a-side may be the one thing they choose to keep.

EDIT - I see you've already adressed this while I was typing

Another thought. An opinion, as always worth what it cost.

I believe it is important to try and spend time with others in different generations. Family is the easy and common way to do this. This is many are parented and parent. This not the only way nor for many the best way. For some it's via niece and nephew, others clubs and volunteering, many routes.

For your own perspective on life for this reason I think it is important to be connected to different generations. The transition though life is where we start to parent others in some sense then take on other roles and then support the parents in a grandparent type role. The forms of these relationships can vary but it is the inter generational aspect that it important and the knowledge transfer is both ways.

I have a small social battery, this is drained 3x as fast when its a 1-1 scenario with someone else who I’m unfamiliar with

Bugger, there goes the 'affair' idea.

I’ve considered joining some group rides but as I’m a big bloke I worry I’ll slow everyone down as I’m not the fastest on the climbs

A good group should accommodate this sort of thing. I occasionally see novice groups advertised locally, not suggesting that you're a novice but they'll be aimed at gentle pootles for people who haven't pushed a pedal since they were children. They'll be holding you back.

Try it? If it doesn't work, it doesn't work, you don't need to go back.

I’ve always found it feels inauthentic in terms of you only have friendship within the boundaries of the hobby and club.

Yeah, this is the "it's my last day at work today, here's my contact details, keep in touch!" phenomenon. Truth is, even the "mates" at work, you'll never speak with again. But does that actually matter? For there to be a future at all there first has to be a now. And your two bestest friends were once people you didn't know.

Where are you archerying, out of interest? I'm lapsed NFAS.

I’ve got 2 really good friends I speak with daily who are both very similiar to me so we rarely see each other and we have no hobbies in common

So, start a hobby. Go do an escape room.

our wider social circle is mostly my wifes friends and their partners who I all get on well with but I only see if it’s couples events

That's fixable too. Have a lads' night. Beer and pizza and a movie, if there's a film on the go then you don't actually have to talk to anyone. Pack the girls off to another house and let them do... uh, whatever it is that women do when there's no blokes around. Gin?

Mid 30s DINK also here and very happy! I have a niece and a nephew who unfortunately live in another country so I don't see them enough, but they are more than enough kids for me! I could not imagine giving up all my free time for kids, it's just 100% not for me.

The one issue we have come across is we both feel incredibly lonely as a couple in this new chapter,

Just as a side note: often when you have kids you still end up "divorcing" your old friends even if they, too, have kids. You end up spending time with parents of kids that live near to you - not because you particularly like them but because it's convenient imhe. Are your old friends with kids hanging out with each other?

At the risk of gender stereotyping, blokes tend to need an “activity” to do with their friends, more than women do.

Stereotyping or no, it certainly can be a neuro-divergent comfort blanket. It's why I suggested an escape room or a board game. If you have a focus then it relieves the pressure of having to do this "small talk" bullshit so beloved of the "normal people." You can be sociable by spending time with friends pushing small plastic trains around a big cardboard map rather than sitting there in a sweat babbling "well... nice weather we're having... for the time of year" or, worse, having to talk about Real Things.

Not DINK here, but we did have go through IVF to get our laddie so sadly know that route well.

The first month of "Not this month then" was ok. Once we were at the 40-oddth month of bad news whilst waiting on getting up up the waiting list was horrendous. Lots and lots of tears and a pretty dark place. Pregnancies and births announced around us externally would be treated with joy for the parents; and an inconsolable wife at home in private.

It's a path I wouldn't wish on anyone and I hope never to revisit.

Was it worth it, absolutely. My laddie is 8months old this week.

As Ernst Shackleton said; "Difficulties are just things to overcome after all"

I'm a SINK in my early 40's and it's effin incredible!

I listen to the absolute drivel that my friends have to endure with kids and their wives and inwardly i'm thinking that i am so lucky! They even think i'm lucky. I've been told many a time from one friend that he feels trapped in every aspect of hin life which i find so sad.

I ski for 6 weeks a year in Verbier, i may go to the Himalayas or i may go to Mexico for some sun, i take my parents away and i basically do as i please. I love every minute of my life!

Whatever circumstances come your way for whatever reason, just enjoy as much of it as you can. Don't get hung up on things that are outside your control.

@cougar Some great advice there, particularly the "keep in touch part", Thank you. My LBS does a group ride on a Friday once a month, think I'll give that a go. Sadly no longer archerying, lockdown edition 1 put a halt to it, our NFAS membership expired and we haven't gotten back into it since, we used to be members of Wild Geese club in Easby.

Appreciate all the comments people, some really sound advice!

being the interesting / mischievous uncle / aunt is a great fun role

I told my nephew the going rate was £5 when he lost his first tooth c 30 years ago! Sister got payback when Mrs FB & I decided to have kids later!

They even think i’m lucky.

I don't. My son is the best thing that's ever happened in my life and well, tbh I don't think I'd still be here if I didn't have him.

The days at Bike Park Wales with him. Man, best days ever.

We're all different 🙂

My LBS does a group ride on a Friday once a month, think I’ll give that a go.

Think? Do it.

If it turns out to be shit, it's shit. What have you lost, an afternoon? My inaugural (and indeed, only) ride-out with the local STW group was an abject disaster, they probably still laugh about my ineptitude now. I'm glad I did it, though.

And it's hard. It's "big boy pants" levels of hard, I totally understand that. Stepping out of your comfort zone is daunting. But it can be rewarding.

Sadly no longer archerying, lockdown edition 1 put a halt to it, our NFAS membership expired and we haven’t gotten back into it since, we used to be members of Wild Geese club in Easby.

You're a couple of hours from me and I don't know the club. Picking the bow back up has been on my "to do" list for maybe 20 years but it seems I'm rather bad at following my own advice.

We’re all different 🙂

Something both sides could do to remember.

Some people want to have children. Some don't. Both of these scenarios are perfectly fine.

I'd never tell someone "I don't have kids so you shouldn't either." My possibly ill-conceived(*) advice here was simply that it didn't feel like the right solution for the issue the OP was presenting. It sounds to me less like they're wanting to start a family and more like they're just bored off their tits. But, obvs, Internet forum and I don't know the OP from a ham sandwich so I could be way off the mark.

(* - See what I did there? Oh please yourselves. Tough crowd. I'm here all week.)

Wait, I've got it.

What you need is clearly a cat.

I think we need to remember the difference between the childfree from choice and those who are childfree because they cannot conceive.

A friend of mine was utterly devastated to be told she could not have kids.  She has adopted a kid now.

When folk say " its different when its your own" they are absolutely right - its that old oxytocin again

Most of my friends are childless like myself. My closest friend has one child, but she's never stopped this from seeing me or her other friends. I often have to go and fit in with her time wise, which is no hardship.

The lonely thing is a strange one, people can be lonely even with children or close family around them, some don't have family and are never lonely.

I know people who regret having had children and only had them because it was expected, I also know people that desperately wanted them and it didn't happen.
We are childless, however we went through the 'sharing' my nephew. We did all the bathing, nappy changing, reading bedtime stories, school run, doing things that families with children do. It was mostly great and we were able to give him the childhood, that we would have given our own child had we had one. It was the best of both worlds. He got all the love we had for a child and we got his love back (and some of the problems).
As for getting older, I soon realised that most children nowadays are not going to want to look after their parents when they get old.
I'm very much like Sue_W and have been able to give more time and energy to the environment and wildlife, things I'm passionate about.
Hobbies are important for everyone, whatever their circumstances.

childfree not childless bunnyhop 🙂