[Closed] Ding doing: The toff's career is dead

Displays of flags on houses always reminds me of Belfast in the troubles

Unless football is on I always think the flag means racist live here

Its a shame and one day you [ the english] make regain ownership of the flag from the racist but it has not happened yet.

cranberry is this your house?

[img] [/img]

Why do so many in the Labour movement find working people so frightfully dreadful ?

Do you know what 'labour movement' means ? No it doesn't mean the Labour Party.

Ding doing: The toff bitch's career is dead

Well that's an unpleasant thread title.

I've always seen the Union flag as the racist one. The ingerlund one is more cringing JJB football bulbend. I dread hearing that van coming up behind me on a narrow road.

Unless football is on I always think the flag means racist live here

Now that`s just prejudice 🙄

cranberry - Member

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-30139832

Why do so many in the Labour movement find working people so frightfully dreadful ?

Yes, another Labour politician bites the dust ... dun dun dun ... dun-du-du - du dooo ... another one ... another bite the dust (the song by Queen something like that). 😆

Now let's see if more will follow ...

Oh I forgot new legislation and rules please ... now duplicate and triplicate all the paper works then triple the size of public sector and make sure everyone works in the public sector. Ya ... now everyone is a manager ...

😆

Well that's an unpleasant thread title.

Agreed. What the hell does ding doing even mean?

Its pre judging based on limited information. FWIW you need to persuade me the flag is generally not seen/has not been mainly used by racists.

As i said I hope it gets reclaimed but it has not yet.

See also swastika.

The Chelsea scalf in Kimbers' picture ruins the look the house owner was going for - really over did it with that.
RM.

Unless football is on I always think the flag means racist live here

True enough IME. Funnily enough I was looking at Google street view the other day where I grew up (not a great place) and there were loads of flags flying. But I guess Oldham is not quite as cosmopolitan as it could be. Our previous local landlord used to fly the flag proudly outside his pub and he was a blatant racist too. Quite embarrassing actually and most people were relieved when he moved on.

Well that's an unpleasant thread title.

And factually incorrect, she's only resigned from the shadow cabinet. She remains an MP and a qualified barrister. Her career is far from dead.

weirdly misogynistic thread title

she is however useless New Labour. Islington South should have gone Lib Dem two elections ago but so single the local yellows messed it up

Junkyard - lazarus

Really is it?You will be telling me that is sarcasm next
FWIW you need to persuade me the flag is generally not seen/has not been mainly used by racists.

As i said I hope it gets reclaimed but it has not yet.

See also swastika.

Ok let me get this right ... if that flag symbolizes racism or a racist flag then does that mean all English people are racist? Yes? 😯

Should we not have another flag apart from that? Yes?

Edit: where I come from those who fly the national flag are predominantly illegal immigrants in their second/third generation on the pretext of being a nationalist but waiting to annex Borneo. The local don't give a shite about being nationalistic cos it is shite. So when we see a car that has national flag we immediately know they are illegal immigrants ... and the descendant of pirates and those that kidnap and cut off your head type.

if that flag symbolizes racism or a racist flag then does that mean all English people are racist? Yes?

Junkyard - lazarus

if that flag symbolizes racism or a racist flag then does that mean all English people are racist? Yes?

No. This means you cannot think

Or you cannot differentiate ... 🙄

According to the Beeb

[i]The 54-year-old entered Parliament as MP for Islington South and Finsbury in 2005 The daughter of a former assistant secretary general of the United Nations, she was born in Surrey and was called to the bar in 1983. [/i]

Did she join the Labour Party by mistake?

nickc - Member

Did she join the Labour Party by mistake?

I doubt it but rather it is a career to rule over commoners ... yes, you lot are common and all politicians regardless of affiliation will think of you as dirt on their shoes. 🙄

People of a certain age shouldn't play with twitter and things they don't understand. They will get burnt!

Clearly it is impolite to sneer at other people because they inhabit a different strata of society to you...

Ok let me get this right ... if that flag symbolizes racism or a racist flag then does that mean all English people are racist?

No only those who insist on hanging the flag outside their house for no apparent reason are more than likely to be racist. It's not the flag itself that symbolises racism.

where I come from those who fly the national flag are predominantly illegal immigrants in their second/third generation on the pretext of being a nationalist but waiting to annex Borneo.

Well, you learn something new every day.

So when we see a car that has national flag we immediately know they are illegal immigrants ... and the descendant of pirates and those that kidnap and cut off your head type.

You've lost me now, obviously talking about some other planet.

No only those who insist on hanging the flag outside their house for no apparent reason are more than likely to be racist. It's not the flag itself that symbolises racism.

In a strange twist is that itself not a little stereotypical and therefore a bit racist ( or at least xenophobic )

In a strange twist is that itself not a little stereotypical and therefore a bit racist ( or at least xenophobic )

Like those who automatically assume that a beer gut, a swastika, and a nazi salute, means racist.

Take this geezer for example, unless you had a chat with him there is absolutely no way that you could assume he was more likely racist.

[img] [/img]

Agreed. What the hell does ding doing even mean?

[img] [/img]

moshimonster - Member

No only those who insist on hanging the flag outside their house for no apparent reason are more than likely to be racist. It's not the flag itself that symbolises racism.

It is the labeling that is scary I mean whenever the flag is flown it is associated with racism and worst case scenario if you are of lower caste 😆 i.e. working class, you are instantly labeled as racist if you are seen with a flag. In a way, nationalism can be considered as a form of racism? Yes?

Well, you learn something new every day.

Yes. It is real due to the geographical proximity with one of the southern region of another country and the mass exodus that came over. They want to create an Muslamic region ... many are in the second and third generations and have infiltrated many important govt positions. However, they still affiliate themselves with their home region and trying to create a new state/govt.

You've lost me now, obviously talking about some other planet.

They are the descendants of people who rule the sea, i.e. pirates, then they evolved into religious extremist and one of their punishment is to decapitate their enemies ... 😯

ernie_lynch - Member
Take this geezer for example, unless you had a chat with him there is absolutely no way that you could assume he was more likely racist.

The problem is why do people let them take over/hijack the flag? Why not take the flag back and let them create one of their own? Even nazi created their own symbol so why can't they create their own "brand"?

😯

I'm an involuntary racist, I just don't seem to have a competative nature 🙁

[img] [/img]

[quote=Jamie ]
Agreed. What the hell does ding doing even mean?
Seriously? Every bloody year they show [i]The Wizard of Oz[/i] and you've managed to avoid it. [b]EVERY BLOODY YEAR??[/b]

Did she join the Labour Party by mistake?

in other words, I don't think that anyone would say she's had a similar trajectory to John Prescott but I think "toff" might be overstating it. I mean, ffs, she's not even landed, let alone [i]titled[/i].

[i][b]"Mr Ware, 36, who works in the motor trade and property maintenance, told the Telegraph the flags been on his house since the World Cup.

He said that he had voted Conservative at the 2010 election, and had no idea there was a by-election in Rochester and Strood that evening"[/i][/b]

So daft that even UKIP can't rely on his vote.

Junkyard - lazarus

Unless football is on I always think the flag means racist live here

Its a shame and one day you [ the english] make regain ownership of the flag from the racist but it has not happened yet.

So the [English] flag is racist but your [Union] flag is not?
Your opinion speaks volumes more about your small mindedness than it does about those you show prejudice against.

This comes from someone who holds many more flags in their "arsenal" than you probably do.

[quote=chewkw ]Even nazi created their own symbol so why can't they create their own "brand"?

What I find strange is how many other cultures have used that symbol the nazis created despite the negative connotations. Didn't it bother these Byzantines?

[img] [/img]

sbob - Member
So the [English] flag is racist but your [Union] flag is not?

😆 you lot are very funny ....

aracer - Member

chewkw » Even nazi created their own symbol so why can't they create their own "brand"?

What I find strange is how many other cultures have used that symbol the nazis created despite the negative connotations. Didn't it bother these Byzantines?

Ya, all of them nicked it from others and even the Byzanties nicked it from far east. 🙄

Mr Ware also said :

[i][b]"I will continue to fly the flags. I know there is a lot of ethnic minorities that don't like it"[/i][/b]

I have no idea how he knows that "there is a lot of ethnic minorities that don't like it", I suspect he hasn't been going around asking them. Perhaps it's something he's read somewhere.

I can't see what's wrong with her photo. She's just posted a pic and said Rochester. Surely it's other people's perception of what she meant that has caused the issue?

I don't see it as racist, or common, just a bit chavvy.

Others see it differently.

Now wonder newspaper Journalists drink themselves to an early grave. Hamming everything up must take its toll.

Plus. Funny is the Whelan is anti-semetic. What? Should the manager sending joke/bad taste texts never ever have a job again then? Now Whelan is suddenly anti-Jewish for giving him a chance? Why didn't they call Whelan homophobic? I wonder if that'd prompt a liable case and a step too far?...

Flags should be on Flag poles, it's hanging them out of windows that makes the home owner look like a cretin.

"I will continue to fly the flags. I know there is a lot of ethnic minorities that don't like it"

Its brilliant all this, labour minister sacked for making an unsaid point with a simple photo and given the line above, it seems like her point had a point but no one in politics can talk about the point so UKip win another seat. You couldnt make it up.

Now Whelan is suddenly anti-Jewish for giving him a chance?

Well no, he's being accused of being anti-semitic for saying jews are "more money chasing than everybody else" - I think it's easy see how that might be a bit close to the mark for anyone familiar with centuries of anti-semitic rhetoric.

Flag waving is a symbolic gesture used to justify actions that benefit a particular group or idea. Often that idea is detrimental to a different group or idea. Human beings love "us and them" thinking - in groups and out groups.
It's a cognitive shortcut based on emotion instead of logic and is used to manipulate based on preconceived prejudices and biases.

That's when it is done at high, conscious level - i.e. by political parties.

When it is repeated by some mouth breathing ****tard it just shows they have been influenced.

Here's a terrifying thought. Half of all the people in this country have an IQ under 100.

Its a shame and one day you [ the english] make regain ownership of the flag from the racist but it has not happened yet.

To be honest, I don't really want the flag back to wave. All just seems a lot of culturally divisive bollocks that serves little more than giving the human ego a bit of identity. And the ruling classes a manageable block to control.

Human first, everything else a distant second.

[i]The 54-year-old entered Parliament as MP for Islington South and Finsbury in 2005 The daughter of a former assistant secretary general of the United Nations, she was born in Surrey and was called to the bar in 1983. [/i]

Hmm, she reckoned she grew up on a council estate:

[i]Mrs Thornberry told The Telegraph: ”My point is that it's a remarkable image of a house completely covered in flags. I grew up on a council estate and I have never seen a house completely covered in flags before. There's three of them.“[/i]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rochester-byelection-labour-mp-emily-thornberry-apologises-for-white-transit-van-and-england-flags-tweet-9874088.html

Old Labour, as in very middle-class it seems:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Thornberry

And another Lawyer - so one of BLair's.

Its a shame and one day you [ the english] make regain ownership of the flag from the racist but it has not happened yet.

And another Lawyer - so one of BLair's.

What?

Over half of the Conservative MP's are qualified as lawyers and something like 10% of Labour MP's are.

So it turns out the owner of the flag house isn't a Nigerian civil rights lawyer.

Who'd have thought it?

[img] [/img]

someone who wants to kick immigrants out of the country gets elected whilst someone tweets a picture and loses their job. What a country

So it turns out the owner of the flag house isn't a Nigerian civil rights lawyer.

No but judging by his tribal tattoos and mixed martial arts tee shirt it's clear that he embraces other cultures.

I bet he reads the sun and hates cyclists. what a ****.

Or you cannot differentiate

The problem is why do people let them take over/hijack the flag? Why not take the flag back and let them create one of their own?

So the [English] flag is racist but your [Union] flag is not?

Your opinion speaks volumes more about your small mindedness than it does about those you show prejudice against.

Now Whelan is suddenly anti-Jewish for giving him a chance?

aracer well played there with that follow up 😀

I think it sums up the problem with the way politics works that the unstated point she was making turns out to be true, yet she has to step down from her position.

This was toxic stuff for the Labour party, Ed had to boot her out pronto.

I think it sums up the problem with the way politics works that the unstated point she was making turns out to be true, yet she has to step down from her position.

If I took to our work twitter feed to broadcast that I think one of our customers is an arse I'd be disciplined, whether or not they're an arse is irrelevant, it's an issue of respecting your "customers".

If I took to our work twitter feed to broadcast that I think one of our customers is an arse I'd be disciplined, whether or not they're an arse is irrelevant, it's an issue of respecting your "customers".

Do you think he would ever have been one of her "customers"?

Hmm. So now the Labour Party has to respect aggressive, small minded, racists in order to get elected? Kinda makes my point.

Do you think he would ever have been one of her "customers"?

I don't know - I've known plenty of unpleasant labour voters - but it doesn't matter, I'd still be bollocked for it. Possibly "prospective customers" is a better term though.

Hmm. So now the Labour Party has to respect aggressive, small minded, racists in order to get elected? Kinda makes my point.

I bet he reads the sun and hates cyclists. what a ****.

I imagine that reading the Sun is probably too challenging for him, if he did he might have accidentally discovered that there was a very high profile by-election going on in his home town, instead of telling the Daily Telegraph that he "had no idea there was a by-election in Rochester and Strood that evening".

If he does get the Sun then I suspect it would be to look at the pictures.

Did she join the Labour Party by mistake?

I think that when I look at most of the labour front bench. The parties are now so indistinguishable from each other, the 'staff' (with a few notable exceptions) are interchangeable. Parliament is just stuffed with 'career politicians' choosing which one they'd like to represent. Its no longer a matter of clearly held beliefs, but a pragmatic career choice about which one of the two is more likely to get them a seat on the gravy train.

They all went to the same schools, then they all studied the same course at the same university. When they graduate, they just choose red or blue, then disappear into that colour press office/thinktank, and start brown-nosing until they get parachuted into a safe seat somewhere they've never heard of, and will have to hold their nose, pin on a false smile, and visit once a year

And this bloody daft woman hasn't specifically voiced the attitude of the labour party towards the white working class, more the attitude of the entire Westminster 'political establishment towards the white working class. Arrogant contempt!

Her original attempt to assuage the anger was that she was surprised to see a house covered in [i]British[/i] flags.

Ignorant and unpleasant. Ed did well to bounce her out sharpish.

The London Olympics did wonders for the Union flag… I've no idea what can do the same for the George Cross… but 'till it does, it is most definitely used as a signifier that only “people like us” are welcome in the area. Sad but true.

As for the shadow minister? Not being able to point out racists is political correctness gone mad. Maybe.

I imagine that reading the Sun is probably too challenging for him, if he did he might have accidentally discovered that there was a very high profile by-election going on in his home town, instead of telling the Daily Telegraph that he "had no idea there was a by-election in Rochester and Strood that evening".

If he does get the Sun then I suspect it would be to look at the pictures.

And it's a perfect illustration of the difference between even a high-profile by-election and a general election. This chap ignored last night's vote, but got down the polling station in 2010 and voted conservative.

Miliband must be in a total rage (if he is capable of that degree of emotion). Tories threw the kitchen sink at this one and got beaten, and the headlines? One of his dozy front-benchers sticking her nose up at the lumpen electorate.

The London Olympics did wonders for the Union flag… I've no idea what can do the same for the George Cross… but 'till it does, it is most definitely used as a signifier that only “people like us” are welcome in the area. Sad but true.

Or that there was an England football international two days earlier and he hadn't got round to taking them down yet. The assumption and implication of racism here is the problem, not whether he actually is or not.

And this bloody daft woman hasn't specifically voiced the attitude of the labour party towards the white working class, more the attitude of the entire Westminster 'political establishment towards the white working class

You think all "white working class" have tatty St George's flags hanging from their roof gutters ?

The photo in question provides an example of what you might expect to see in typical UKIP territory. There is no evidence that Emily Thornberry was suggesting it was typical of white working class attitudes.

Most white working class voters do not have St George's flags hanging from their roof gutters, get that thought out of your head binners.

and the headlines?

And who writes the headlines? They'll find something to damn Miliband with at every key moment right up to the next General Election. He can't avoid it. He shouldn't respond to it.

They'll find something to damn Miliband with at every key moment right up to the next General Election.

Not often they get handed it on a plate like that though.

On a cheerier note, how did the LibDem vote hold up? 🙂

The photo in question provides an example of what you might expect to see in typical UKIP territory.

Really? I've seen exactly the same in numerous [b]very[/b] safe Labour seats!

There is no evidence that Emily Thornberry was suggesting it was typical of white working class attitudes.

Begs the question why she felt the need to resign over it if she had done nothing wrong?

I liked Nick Robinsons take on it on R4 - Dave was driving a car into a brick wall at 100mph, and at the very last moment Labour managed to thow themselves in front of him 🙂

I don't get this, at all.

She posts a picture of a house in her constituency, with an comment of 'here's a house in my constituency.' People infer that she's being elitist, and she steps down as a result. If she's that limp perhaps MPing isn't for her.

Meanwhile the word on the street is, the implication that Mr Ware isn't a caviare and champagne sort of bloke turns out to be bang on the money. Film at 11.

Bizarre.

I'll hand this one over to Gordon Brown...

[i]She's just a sort of bigoted woman that said she used to be Labour[/i]

[quote=Cougar said] with an comment of 'here's a house in my constituency.'

It wasn't her constituency, she was forced to slum it down there for the day.

I would just like to say that as a proud English man and (very) anti-racist, i am offended by the fact that people would hold me in the same regard as those who degrade our flag with racism.

I'm not sure who offends me more though, those who tar me with the same brush or those that bring the down with their extreme views. It all seem pretty bigoted to me!

I bet there's no end of racist Scots out there but if you saw one waving a flag you wouldn't think, "oh there's a racist Scotsman", you'd just think "oh there's a Scotsman".

I do not fly a flag over my house or hang one out of the window.

Most white working class voters do not have St George's flags hanging from their roof gutters, get that thought out of your head binners.

ernie - not really the point, is it?

The problem isn't specifically about people with flags outside their house. Its just that this whole thing is indicative of a certain contemptuous attitude towards the working class. Its exactly the same attitude that Gordon Brown expressed about 'that bigoted woman'. She wasn't bigoted. She was expressing a legitimate concern. But the labour party is now so far removed from its core vote, that its legitimate concerns are just airily dismissed.

Its condescending, patronising and arrogant! And those 3 words sum up Westminster, including most of the labour front bench

Looks like she dug her own hole

[img] [/img]

The assumption and implication of racism here is the problem, not whether he actually is or not.

You can argue against someone's views whilst still treating them with respect.

On a cheerier note, how did the LibDem vote hold up?

LibDem vote almost zero.

Is that because they are “in bed” with the Tories, or because they're not seeking to ape the closed borders anti immigrant politics of the other parties? Or somehow both? All they can do now is stick to their policies and prepare for irrelevance. It's either that or try and occupy the same policy ground as the three bigger parties. Sorry, that should be three "biggest" parties now that LibDems are fifth, and could even be sixth soon the way things are going in Scotland.

Its just that that is indicative of a certain contemptuous attitude towards the working class

Westminster may be out of touch but that is some over rich interpretation - Hey FLASHY want to comment on UKIP giving your lot another kicking?- of one picture to say it pours scorn on the entire working class

.....and she steps down as a result. If she's that limp perhaps MPing isn't for her.

I doubt the decision was hers, I suspect the Ed Miliband made the decision for her.

New Labour is happy to ignore traditional Labour voters which they feel will have no option but to vote for them, but likes to court Tory voting white van drivers who hang English flags from their guttering.

Unless football is on I always think the flag means racist live here

+1

No. The problem is racist have taken ownership of your flag so that when it is seen that is what many people think/suspect/fear. That fella, with all respect, is hardly braking the mould on what you expect to see when you see a flag flying outside someone house.

It's not really my flag any more. I wouldn't use it for the reasons you state. You're right, he's not exactly breaking the mould. But the issue for Thornberry is that tweeting the assumption is crass political suicide, regardless of how accurate it later turns out to be.

Plenty of MPs of all persuasions manage to keep schtum about their feelings for the electorate they represent. It's bad for business otherwise.

The problem isn't specifically about people with flags outside their house. Its just that this whole thing is indicative of a certain contemptuous attitude towards the working class. Its exactly the same attitude that Gordon Brown expressed about 'that bigoted woman'. She wasn't bigoted. She was expressing a legitimate concern. But the labour party is now so far removed from its core vote, that its legitimate concerns are just airily dismissed.

I'm no supporter of New Labour binners, and I agree with your general point, but if you knew about Emily Thornberry you would know that not only has she got one of the most listenable voices in British politics but she also agrees with your point.

Here she is making that point only last month :

Emily Thornberry is a New Labour and EU supporter, I wouldn't vote for her, but don't accuse her of things which she isn't guilty of.

She's apolitician, her job is to represent the electorate and promote the views of her party - not point and laugh at those that don't share them, however unpleasant they may turn out be.

You certainly don't hand your opposition the opportunity to characterise you as being diametrically opposed and aloof to (a depiction of) your core traditional vote. She's an asshat.