[Closed] Digital slr

Decide how much she wants to spend, then wander around the camera shops and get her hands on everything in her price range. There aren't really any lemons, so it just comes down to what she likes the feel of. Some may have simpler menus or more buttons or whatever; but I'm not sure that any particular camera will be miles ahead of another at a similar price. Kit lenses - 18mm-55mm/100mm sort of range - are decent enough and versatile enough until she gets into it and wants specific things from her lenses. She also need software with RAW capability and you can expect to pay up to around £250 for something like Abode's Lightroom.

What was the problem with the Venture folks?

Thanks for the advice will take a look in the shops soon. She wants to spend about £1k.
Venture
10 photos on a 4gb memory stick £615 with 3.5gb free space so resoloution will be low, despite what we were told. One print 6"x6" £259 on special offer crazy prices up £2995 for multiple pictures in special frames.
We have an IMAC and abobe suite, bride, in design, photoshop ....as she has her own Interior Design company. the bloke scoffed when we questioned any of the work as it looked like lazy photoshop. We booked after being told there was no hard sell and affordable. There was a promotion outside Sainsburys in Calcot Reading not waitrose in Knightsbrige. Some of the shots were really good but the attitude of the photographer/seller was shocking.
We have just had underwater swimming shots of our 5month old by Waterbabies these cost £150 for 3 10"x8" and are stunning. No hard sell and relaxed way to view and purchase, i guess i expected this from Venture.

A grand should get you a good starter kit. Your heavy hitters are Canon and Nikon, they're of comparable quality overall but very different user interfaces and designs. As Fishy says, go to a shop and have a play, personal preference is key here.

Ballpark figures,

Canon 1100D + kit lens, £420
55-250 zoom with IS, £180
Fast 50mm prime, £85
3rd party wide angle lens, £300.

Dunno about Nikon but I imagine they're largely comparable.

That leaves you a few quid change for a camera bag to put it all in. Probably better off just getting the body + kit until you work out what you actually want to do with it though.

For bodies, it's worth looking at the second hand market. Lenses hold their value very well and you don't save much by going second-hand; camera bodies depreciate vertically due to the rate at which new ones are released.

Molgrips will be along shortly to tell you all about Olympus 4/3s.

You'd get a lot more for you money if you went second hand. My Canon 40D is still going strong 4 years on and the photos are just as good as the more modern cameras.

It would leave you some spare cash to get a lighting kit if you wanted to do studio style photos at home.

Hope you don't mind me asking but was it the Prices of Venture, or the attitude that put you off (being within the industry its a constant dilemma of price point for myself and many many others).

Im assuming the 6x6 was framed with mount? So from my perspective I'd be charging around the £200 (inc VAT) mark for a similar product. Given an archival frame will be around £55+vat dependant on glass quality. Giclee / LCD print £8 mounted, around an hours work to prep the image from raw (including file handling and archiving etc), and another 30 minutes to frame and package.

Even if u applied the lowest end of charge levels as the interior design industry which are similar in qualification / application to photographers (BIDA suggest between £35-£200 per hour) there is an extremely fine margin.

Obviously thats not taking into account the marketing cost to get you there, the studio time, initial image prep or associated overheads, equipment write down etc.

Certainly not defending Venture as I know they can be very hit or miss quality wise given they are a Franchise group but I personally think their pricing is more realistic as a sustainable business model than the opposite end of the spectrum of £10 a print on the home inkjet printer.

Obviously if it was the attitude of the staff ... all the above is moot and I'd suggest feeding back to the Studio Owner your thoughts.

50 meg per picture is low res?

Your heavy hitters are Canon and Nikon,

There's more to consider than just these two manufacturers

http://www.jessops.com/online.store/products/79383/show.html

this is going to be very hard to beat for sheer VFM even going 2nd hand

obviously it helps to go to a shop and try some of these things

-----------------

But perhaps question whether a DSLR is even needed ... you can achieve excellent results with a "compact system camera" (micro four thirds and sony nex) and will probably take more picture because these setups and significantly lighter/smaller - if you travel a lot this can be a significant factor

I'm going to be buying a Sony A55 - won't tell you all about it, as there are plenty of reviews, but it may be worth waiting for the highly anticipated A77

When I pay for a service I expect to get something of a higher standard than what I can produce my self. Don't have your promoters telling one thing and then offer something else when your in the studio looking at the pictures if you children. Offering finance as well means that people will buy more than they can afford. Fine if you get away, everybody wants easy money but don't get ahitty when I'm not impressed with what your selling.

How Much space do you loose when you format? The res of the pictures was 1024 x something. Less than the screen on my 13inch laptop. The files were not going to be large. . But he assured me they were. I have dabbled in computer graphics for years. Since my low power low memory Amiga 500. I no howuch memory is used by a jpeg.which is the format we were told was used.

Moaning over
Thanks for the bits of advice

TOP TIP:

In the Olympusmarket eBay store on eBay.de refurbished E-450s with 14-42mm kit lens are going for about 200 euros. By far the best value you'll find anywhere, and a great little camera.

Also the same site has E-PL1s going for similar prices.

Don't get an Olympus 4/3. There's serious uncertainty about the future of the format. Go with canon or nikon as they have massive market shares, with guaranteed 3rd party equipment.

Sounds about right for a lot of the Studios unfortunately. Worth shopping around other studios still as there are still plenty that do an outstanding job (both independent and franchised).

Regards the res of the images, sounds like they are produced for HD screen resolution. True HD resolves 1080 vertical lines (potentially interlaced or upscaled), by whatever the ratio of the screen (minimum 1920).

Your 13 inch screen probably has the same pixel resolution as the majority of 50 inch LCD TV's (or any other HD screen) as the pixels are denser on the majority of laptops, hence looking noticeably sharper (think Apple Iphone retina display vs earlier versions).

I assume the are marketing them for digital display as their images are normally heavily copyrighted?

Print resolution would require at least 250 DPI, so at that resolution 4 x ??? inch prints before quality would start to degrade (if at all possible).

Regards equipment, I'd place portability above the majority of features, no point having all the bells and whistles if you never carry it anywhere.

Second to that a good bright lens, as already given a cheap 50mm (or equivalent) prime allows natural light portraiture, good drop off and nice bokeh at a very low price.

Thirdly, if utilising flash then off camera / hot shoe, with some form of diffusion (Gary Fong or similar).

(including file handling and archiving etc)

Just what does that mean?

I'm guessing it means the fact that photographers have to spend money to archive files (external hard drives / DVDs, and also the time taken to do this.

Don't get an Olympus 4/3. There's serious uncertainty about the future of the format

That's a possibility, but there have been repeated assurances from Olympus that that won't be the case.

Hard to know what to think all the same. But still - 200 euros is insane. If you aren't going to go mental buying lenses for the next 5 years then it'd do nicely.

Just what does that mean?

Downloading the file, adding into library, converting from RAW to TIFF, Any adjustment / colour balance / photoshop work, preparing to print size and colour space, printing (either internal or external), then saving to archive (at least 3 separate locations both in house and out sourced).

On average for a sub 16x20 image approx one hours work, obviously longer if the image is larger or requires more editing work.

Havent factored in the cost of the physical archive system as that would come under associated costs.

I've just bought the pentax K-R in the jessops link above. So far i'm very pleased and have taken a few exceptional pics with virtually no skill or talent.

If the OP wants to do this

So far i'm very pleased and have taken a few exceptional pics with virtually no skill or talent.

If the OP wants to take photos properly a DSLR is the only answer.

I'd best throw out my M8, Mamiya RZ, Sinar P, and GF1 then ...

Best you do. 😉

I am just considering the opposite, that is selling my DSLR gear, Which will be a bit less than £1k.

Gear consists of:
a Fuji S5 Pro body (same as Nikon D200, but with a Fuji sensor)

Sigma 10-20mm EX F4-5.6 (Nikon fit) lens.

Sigma 18-200mm F3.4-6.3 DC OS (Nikon fit also).

The body has only had 1700 shutter actuations, and these are also the only use these two lenses have had. All are mint and with original boxes.

Pics available if required. Only selling as I don't use it enough to keep this much gear sitting in my wardrobe.

This is a bargain for the price, the lens alone goes for £600 to 800 on ebay, and the Body sells for approx £600/700 too

Canon EOS 60D Digital SLR Camera (Inc EF-S 17-55mm IS Lens Kit) £999.97
Go through quidco and get a £50 discount voucher of hotukdeals and you get another £75/100 off

http://direct.tesco.com/q/R.211-1426.aspx

Unless you are a) loaded or b) going to get really into it, don't spend a grand. There's no need.

Unless you are a) loaded or b) going to get really into it, don't spend a grand. There's no need.

this

This is a bargain for the price, the lens alone goes for £600 to 800 on ebay, and the Body sells for approx £600/700 too

Canon EOS 60D Digital SLR Camera (Inc EF-S 17-55mm IS Lens Kit) £999.97
Go through quidco and get a £50 discount voucher of hotukdeals and you get another £75/100 off

http://direct.tesco.com/q/R.211-1426.aspx

Although that's a good price if you want that.

The significantly less expensive K-r will still hold its ground against that

http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon_EOS_60D-vs-Pentax_K-r

You've still got 520 left over after the buying the K-r deal against that 60D deal too which could go on a lens or a holiday or anything! Yes Canon/Nikon have more lenses and probably offer better zoom lenses than Pentax. But the Pentax gear is smaller and arguably their prime lenses are amongst the best - boils down to what you shoot

btw I don't own a Pentax camera and never have so not biased (sticking with my micro four thirds G1)

If I was spending all of grand on a DSLR it'd have to offer something more/different... weather resistance or insanely good video... which atm would mean a Pentax K-5, Olympus E-5 or Panasonic GH2 or possibly the Sony a55 mentioned earlier

Not sure I'd get an E-5 tbh - weather sealing is nice but it's what, £1500.. and is basically the same as my E-600 which was £330.

It's amazing to see how much money people drop on these things now btw. Go somewhere touristy, and the number of people lugging enormous DSLRs around and taking no pictures or just a few snaps is remarkable.

Btw picked up a Sony something in a shop on Saturday - might've been A55 not sure, it was about 600 euro, and the viewfinder was awful. Everything looked stripey flickery rainbow coloured when it moved. Admittedly it was a shop copy so it might've been borked in some way.

It's amazing to see how much money people drop on these things now btw. Go somewhere touristy, and the number of people lugging enormous DSLRs around and taking no pictures or just a few snaps is remarkable.

molgrips - you should be pleased about this 🙂 The more people buying these things and spending above their needs, the more the high-end stuff will trickle down to the low end stuff.

Also you don't know what else they use them for. I use my SLR for 'snaps' but also for erm, 'proper' photography. Maybe they do too.

I think I spend about £1200 on my first DSLR bits and pieces (D80), but the prices have come down now for quality kit.
I got the D80 & 18-135 kit lens for £699 (I think, might have been £799), 70-300 VR lens was £350 or thereabouts, 2x UV filters + 1x polariser was about £80, Lowe Pro Slingshot bag was £60, mem card was £20-30.

The OP mentioned getting a camera to get some portrait shots, rather than using Venture or a similar place.
Would these be out & about type pics or 'studio' style ones? If the latter, you're gonna more than likely need at least one flash, if not a couple, plus a backdrop. Might be worth factoring this in.

I use my SLR for 'snaps' but also for erm, 'proper' photography. Maybe they do too

True, but you don't see many people taking photos at all, or looking around for potential pictures, so it does make you wonder.

True, but you don't see many people taking photos at all, or looking around for potential pictures, so it does make you wonder.

What a totally ignorant comment. How long do you follow people for to make sure they're worthy of owning a DSLR?

Re-read my post. I said it makes you wonder. I didn't say (or mean to imply) that they weren't 'worthy' of anything, since that would be very snobbish and very judgemental, both things I aspire not to be.

Food for thought. It is true though that many people buy some piece of equippment or other because it's great in some way, and never use it for that for which it was designed and intended. Which is a shame I feel, and can also become a corrosive habit.

It is true though that many people buy some piece of equippment or other because it's great in some way, and never use it for that for which it was designed and intended. Which is a shame I feel, and can also become a corrosive habit.

Probably true, but kinda irrelevant. Just let them get on with it - don't worry about it.
Just feel smug in the knowledge that the people who buy them thinking it will turn them into some kind of photography god are helping you get better kit next time you make a purchase.

I dread to think what people think of me (although in reality, I don't actually care) mincing around on my Stumpy fsr.
I was probably pretty unnoticeable on the original silver Elite, but since the frame has been warrantied to the carbon one, I must look like a right old 'all the gear, no idea' - considering the cheapest carbon version available in 2010 was £3k.
Thing is, my LBS did me a great deal on the original bike (considering it had only just come out) and it only cost me £1870 instead of £2200. Then I paid £50 for the carbon upgrade under warranty......but people who see me about on it don't know that. Some probably wonder what I am doing riding a £3k 140mm bike round Thetford.
Do I care if others judge me for that. Nope.

t is true though that many people buy some piece of equippment or other because it's great in some way, and never use it for that for which it was designed and intended.

I think you've just described a large percentage of smartphone owners.

molgrips,
Tell me more about these 4/3s bargains pls.
I don't know if I "need" one but how well do you think they would satisfy my requirement which is :
Capture moving subject in low-ish light (eg jumps in overcast conditions or in the woods)
Low weight/bulk

Basically, I think its a case of not being able to get enough light into my compact (Cannon Ixus 70) so I'd be interested in how well these might fit the bill.
Ta

Cougar - Member
t is true though that many people buy some piece of equippment or other because it's great in some way, and never use it for that for which it was designed and intended.
I think you've just described a large percentage of smartphone owners.

Performance car owners
Kenwood Chef owners
PC/Mac owners
Global knife owners
Mountain Bike* owners (* insert most sports here)
Diving watch/Chronograph owners
.......... 😆

... Microsoft Office users.

Take a look at the micro four-thirds standard. Interchangeable lenses, great image quality and easy to handle. You'll probably take a lot more pictures.

I got a Panasonic GF1 rather than a DSLR with the 20mm pancake lens - based on a Leica design - and the ultra-wideangle zoom. With the pancake lens it fits in a jacket pocket and I carry it around most of the time. No regrets.

You have full control with this and probably pick one up on eBay as it's discontinued. The GF2 and GF3 are simplified versions and maybe less appealing if you want control which the DSLR suggests. Shoot raw for higher quality or jpegs for family snapshots.

The Olympus Pen E-P2 looks like a good alternative - check out dpreview.com.

mincing around on my Stumpy fsr

If your MTB goes out on the trails regularly, then that is good. I'm not talking about being amazing at whatever it is that you use kit for, just that you DO it. The bikes I am talking about are the ones that gather dust in garages after a few rides.

Re the E-450 - go here and search - there are usually three or four E-450s on the go at any one time:

http://stores.ebay.de/OlympusMarket_Digital-Kameras/_i.html?_fsub=2&_sid=230374705&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

The same sensor as in all their E system and Pen cameras, and the same lens that I have in mine. It was claimed to be (might still be) the smallest and lightest DSLR around. It's the real deal, no corners cut, although the body does not have image stabilisation (my E600 does but is consequently larger) and the lenses don't come with it either. Small size appealed to me for portability reasons, but some don't like it.

Good things about E-system include (but are not limited to )the excellent quality cheap standard lenses, including high levels of zoom for cheap; bad things include less third party support, and fewer second hand kit bargains.

Take a look at the micro four-thirds standard.

It's a good call - there are some silly cheap E-PL1s on that eBay shop too. Only disadvantage I see is the lack of phase detect autofocus which will probably make focusing slower than a DSLR - but they manufacturers claim not by much.

Ah, I think we've just encountered the middle of this conversation.

(-:

I said it makes you wonder.

It makes you wonder, not me. You wonder; you question 'why?'; you question somebody's choice. Same thing, different words. I can walk around all day with my D5000 hanging off my shoulder and never even look through it. If molgrips saw me, he'd wonder why I needed such a device. And here's one for you: I use my eyes to find a photograph, not wander around peering through the viewfinder on my camera. You may not be a snob, but your judgemental side certainly needs some work.

You wonder; you question 'why?'; you question somebody's choice. Same thing, different words.

Not at all. I wonder about lots of things. I am fully aware though that I do not have all the information (because it's obvious) so I keep my musings to myself and do not judge.

I use my eyes to find a photograph

As I said - I watch people and see if they appear to be looking for a photograph. For some time too, often, since when you are at a zoo or museum or something you tend to follow the same people around a bit.

but your judgemental side certainly needs some work

As I've said many times: I do observe, but I don't judge. When I brought up the subject it was to raise the phenomenon of people buying expensive kit they don't need - which DEFINITELY happens. The people a the zoo yesterday were not necessarily in that category. How could I make that judgement without knowing them? That would be ridiculous. If I'd been judging I'd have said something else.

since when you are at a zoo or museum or something you tend to follow the same people around a bit.

No I don't.

I do observe, but I don't judge.

You just don't think that you judge. Your words in this thread clearly and amply demonstrate otherwise. Here's just one example for you:

When I brought up the subject it was to raise the phenomenon of people buying expensive kit they don't need

How do you know? Seriously: how the **** do you know what people do or don't need? And what business is it of yours anyway?

Déjà vu

Well, it probably is deja vu, it sounds like it.

When I brought up the subject it was to raise the phenomenon of people buying expensive kit they don't need
How do you know?

I don't. That's why I didn't accuse anyone specific in the context of this thread of buying kit they don't need. However I know it happens in general; people I know well do it. This is what I was talking about. The tendency of people to hanker for shiny gadgets and then not really take advantage of them.

It's a bit rich of you judging me for judging people, no? You know barely more about me and my personal thought processes than I do about the zoo patrons. But you're pretty keen on telling me exactly how I feel despite me trying to explain otherwise. You seem to think you know me better than I know myself, which seems unlikely 🙂

since when you are at a zoo or museum or something you tend to follow the same people around a bit.
No I don't.

Well I do. I saw the same folk lots of times yesterday. This is irrefutable 🙂

Thanks again lots to think about but I didn't mean to start a fight 🙂

Neither did I, but I apparently did 🙂

Neither did I, but I apparently did

Oh c'mon molgrips, it's clear that was intentional

I didn't mean to start a fight

Hi! You must be new here.

(-:

To mis-quote someone or other...

"most often the most judgemental people are those who congratulate themselves on their tolerance and open-mindedness"

... which tends to lead to some rabid arguments. Molgrips seems to participate in more than his fair share. At least that's the impression I get, because if memory serves I've already had this very argument with him twice.

Sony A55. Bought it for the wife a month or two ago with the Sony 18-250, and am happy as a clam.

EDIT nm.

You strike me as somebody who is spectacularly unaware of himself.

Interesting you should say that. What gives you that impression?

People seem to mis-understand me an awful lot though, especially on forums. And then you try and explain what you really meant and they continue to hold onto their initial impression and dismiss any further clarification as being a symptom of the same delusion that led to the initial impression.

I'm often imploring people to be open minded on here - so that would imply that I value the trait somewhat, wouldn't it?

zzzzzzzzzzz

What gives you that impression?

You do.

Okay then.

May I also say, for the record, that you seem to be a rather angry person , somewhat self-assured and quite unaware of how hard it is to gain a true impression of someone by reading their forum posts.

What gives you that impression?
You do.

Ah! his Wildean wit combined with the oratory skill of Churchill and Enoch Powell have certainly forced you into a corner there molgrips. Get out of that rhetorical headlock if you can!

Must resist...
Must resist...
...
Can't.

I'm often imploring people to be open minded on here - so that would imply that I value the trait somewhat, wouldn't it?

"most often the most judgemental people are those who congratulate themselves on their tolerance and open-mindedness"

...aaaah, that's better.

Lol @ CM 🙂

TheEye - I didn't congratulate myself there, I simply said that I value the trait.

Anyway I've not found this

"most often the most judgemental people are those who congratulate themselves on their tolerance and open-mindedness"

..to be the case at all.

Not quite sure how it's possible to prove open-mindedness. Maybe if you trawled through my posting history you could draw a conclusion.

You spelt "trolled" wrong there.

May I also say, for the record, that you seem to be a rather angry person , somewhat self-assured and quite unaware of how hard it is to gain a true impression of someone by reading their forum posts.

You're funny! So, hang on a minute... you feel that you can gain a true impression of me, as you described me above; but I can't gain a true impression of you? How does that work, then?

You even did quite well, although I'm certainly more self-assured than just 'somewhat' - more like 'decidedly'. What you are seeing as anger is actually just a mix of frustration, confusion and irritation. I disagree entirely on the third point: it's actually very easy to get a good impression of somebody from their posts when, like you, they give away so much. Judgemental people tend to do that...

You're funny! So, hang on a minute... you feel that you can gain a true impression of me, as you described me above; but I can't gain a true impression of you? How does that work, then?

No, I don't feel anything of the sort! I said you SEEM to be rather angry. I don't know you particularly well so there'd be no logical basis for any other point of view.

I use these words like 'seem to', 'get the impression that' and so on because they indicate subjectivity. Which is a reflection on how your posts read, not an assessment of your character. I can't assess your character, because I don't have enough information. Or in other words - I am not judging 🙂

What you are seeing as anger is actually just a mix of frustration, confusion and irritation

Ok, thanks for the further explanation.

What you are seeing as anger is actually just a mix of frustration, confusion and irritation

[img] [/img]

Not sure I'd get an E-5 tbh - weather sealing is nice but it's what, £1500.. and is basically the same as my E-600 which was £330.

You really need to take a look at an E5 if you think it's anywhere near a 600. The sensor is vastly improved, even on the E30's and the dynamic range is a lot better as well as high ISO performance. Its over priced yes, but it's light years ahead of the other deminishing E system family.

Even the E3 is still a fantastic camera, and out performs the E30 in many areas. Olympus' strength will alwaqys be their lenses, their HG and SHG glass is exceptional, making L series stuff look average. However, they are failing to link them up with new cameras now.

Olympus you realise how irresponsible you're being, don't you? Persuading me of the merits of a really expensive camera 🙂

I didn't realise the sensor was different though. Is it the same as the E3? DPreview seem to think it is.

I do wonder what they are working on there at Olympus. Looks like the E-PL2 has great IQ, so you'd think they could at least whack that in an E-5 1/2 or something.

EDIT: DxO's graphs are just about identical for the E5 and E620 in all cases...

I reckon they are making or considering making a Fuji X100 competitor but obviously with the ability to change lenses - m43 variety

That or they are making a "pro" [vapourware] camera that many crave... I mean weather resistant m43 with uber sensor and pro controls/interface

Surely the X100 is a Pen competitor, not the other way round? There's also the XZ-1 which I had thought was in a similar bracket to the X100.

The x100 is nicher than a rigid 69er with drop bars and belt drive. That you can't fit different tyres to.

Are the controls as direct on the XZ1?

With dedicated mechanical controls for individual shutter speed and exposure compensation, aperture (is adjusted on ring around the lens itself). Third and half stop aperture adjustments using a nudge-wheel. Then youve got the beastly sensor (but yes m43 can and will catch up here)

Its an old school range finder camera made digital pretty much.

I think its been built for complete creative control - but specifically for situations that arise quickly .. you can dial in the settings quickly.. you see something you shot it... a spontaneous thing (not necessarily fast action shots)

Yes it is niche.. but at some point someone will perhaps make an interchangable version of something like that.. it still decent anyway for its intended use.. it's just that price tag 😆

...it's just that price tag