[Closed] Digital Camera - WWSTWD

I have a slightly older TZ and, apart from one specific feature, my camera phone pisses all over it.

If I was going to buy a camera I'd buy a "proper" one, that took a bit of effort, produced MUCH better results and was at the other end of the scale in terms of convenience, otherwise I doubt I'd judge it worth carrying when I usually have my phone anyway.

I do have an older Sony Alpha. I didn't really rate the picture quality. Everything seemed very "soft" and needed a bit of post-processing to achieve life-like results. I'm not saying that's still the case though.

I was thinking that would be the case that the current camera phones would be better, zoom aside, than the TZ.

Get the most expensive and ebay it is what some people would do

Is it silly to ask why a camera if you don't really use one? Modern phones have awesome cameras that are brilliant for most amateur snapping.
There must be something else in the catalogue that appeals and you'll use more?

I doubt I'd ever buy a new camera again when you can pay maybe even half the RRP for a used one with a warranty from somewhere like Mpb.com

I'd also never buy a Sony as I don't like the Way they process colours. Is there a Fuji option?

If you want a new camera I'd really buy it second hand.

We have been to spectacular places recently and I felt that the iPhone pictures haven’t done it justice but there again id just stick it on a present as i currently don’t have time to learn photography. No there’s no Fuji option unfortunately I used to have some of their early digital cameras.

The catalogue is mostly rubbish but I’ve just had another look and I could get the Panasonic g80, the lens and some decent binoculars with the award. I had considered the eBay option as I’d get much more back than taking the cash option but it’s too much hassle for me. There’s an new but opened A6400 on eBay now bidding currently at £850. Depending on my circumstances in few weeks I could be looking at only getting £400-£600 cash versus £1200 from the catalogue.

I used to have Sony DSLRs and I was quite happy about it. The only camera I've got now is Rich GR but I'm thinking about getting something more versatile. A6400 is the option to consider, unless you are willing to stretch budget a little bit and go full frame with A7.

I’m not massively into photography

Then I would not bother with a fancy camera. It won't make good pictures - you do that. You'll take a few pics and they'll look more or less the same as your phone pics but slightly better quality, you'll go 'oh' then not bother bringing it with you again.

The thing with phone v camera in the current age is that it's now easier for most people to take better pictures on a phone.

The software in phones do a lot of work to improve the final result, and if you want more, it's very convenient to edit further on your phone.

A camera can be hard work in comparison, relying on your own skills and knowledge. Then you can spend hours editing to achieve the same as what your phone does.

The camera will give you a superior quality, which will be particularly noticeable if you blow up images to a large size. If you want prints for the wall, the camera is the way to go. For the family photo album most decent phones do the job well enough.

I did the photography thing for a while, and enjoyed it. I spent quite a bit of time figuring out what camera bag to use, because I was going out on family days out and I needed a few lenses but also the ability to carry lunch, kid stuff etc. And in the end I stopped because I needed to actually be with my kids not wandering off looking for subjects and setting up shots.

My go pro takes pictures that are as good as my DSLR+ time to faff in post production.

I've not used the DSLR much recently.

I'm not a professional, but I love a good photo.

I've recently had a photo from my phone in lowish light blown up to A3 and printed. It's pretty much perfect until you get within 30cm.

The GoPro fits in any pocket, the DSLR needs a bag taking as well.

realised I haven't taken pics of the kids & dog for a while what with it being winter etc so grabbed my ancient entry-level nikon dslr with fixed length 35mm lens rather than the usual phones... Sunny day with the bluebells out, so glad I took it, u cant beat shooting RAW onto an APSC or better sensor with half decent glass and a bit of tweaking in PS afterwards. I could upgrade to a better body, but it would be bigger, heavier with more fiddly bits, so why bother. IF I were you I'd take a look at the venerable Nikon D5600 body, or D3500 even, and google around for DX lens recommendations. Not the latest thing by a long chalk but will take pics you will be very happy with.

Agree. Still think the best photos I have taken were with a Canon 20D (that was already over 10 years old) and a prime lens. Could probably get that setup for around £100.

As above, unless you're a professional or hobbyist who simply needs to get the best results and has the time and patience to set up shots, mess about with settings etc, a decent phone camera or compact point and shoot is going to be the best option for family album pics.

I’d say that the thing that will drag you away from your phone is zoom range

Sony do the a6400 bundled with a 18 130.

Panasonic do a 12 60 and a 14 140. I don’t know about kits

Scotroutes has it. I bought a Lumix TZ-95 and it was really underwhelming compared to my then mobile phone. My current S21 would wipe the floor with it. If your current mobile isn't that great for pics could you buy a new phone from the catalogue? The Samsung Galaxy S ranges have optical zoom in addition to taking great pictures reducing the usual weakness with phones.

I've got a Sony 6300 with a few lenses. Even with the kit lens it's still fairly bulky compared to a phone but as others have said, for any subject that requires any kind of zoom it will outclass a phone camera. I would argue that it does in all situations.

If the gift is free, does it matter that the catalogue price for the Sony RX is high? As you've had one in the past you'll be familiar with it. Even just sticking it in HDR mode all the time it will take better photos than a phone AND be almost as portable. Add in the pop-up viewfinder, wide aperture for night shots, sports mode for kids and pets it seems the ideal choice to me...

I also have an RX...:-)

Ive been mullling it over and I’d come to the same conclusion that the RX is the camera I’m most likely to have with me which is the most important thing.

The thing with phone v camera in the current age is that it’s now easier for most people to take better pictures on a phone.

The software in phones do a lot of work to improve the final result, and if you want more, it’s very convenient to edit further on your phone.

Very much this. I remained skeptical until last week first using an iphone 11 with ProCamera app (White balance, shutter speed, ISO, RAW capture etc etc).

I’m now looking forward to getting out in the sticks with it. Planning some low light/night experiments this evening with a gooseneck clamp. Being water-resistant and having a big preview screen (ie live WB matching) is a dream for me. Will see how it gets on with direct sunlight though. I may have to go oldskool with a blackout sheet over me!

First impressions for everyday use and for landscape pics - it beats compacts and DSLR in so many ways (not all, ie trad photography as an art-form and/or wildlife photography) and on the whole it’s an absolute delight to use. Bearing in mind this is for reference pics by which to make art/painting/video etc not wide/large format prints.

Not ditching my DSLRs ever/yet though. Nothing for me beats being lost in the moment in an SLR/optical viewfinder.

OP speaking as a photographer of some 20 years I have to say the RX 100 is without doubt the most fiddly and fragile camera I’ve used to date. Unintuitive UI, slippery, weird lens ring, and the menus were hell for me (I was coming at it from prior experience with Lumix and Olympus and Canon and Nikon compacts)

Others might have different experiences, so just a cautionary take. See if you can maybe try one out? I’ve really tried to like compact zooms in latter years (Still rocking a Pentax MX1 but it hardly ever goes out with me except for macro wildlife needs) - and they (for me) are losing the battle with newer phone cameras.

Unless you really really need the zoom and big sensor I’d recommend having a think about a better phone camera (?) with a decent camera app and cloudspace?

In short, if I was you I’d buy something from the catalogue, sell it, then buy an iPhone 13 Pro Max (or lightly used 12 Pro Max and some nice walking boots/jacket) 😉

ymmv

Some of the best pics I've taken have been with a phone. It's all about composition and artistic expression, it's bugger all to do with image quality.

Some of the best pics I’ve taken have been with a phone. It’s all about composition and artistic expression, it’s bugger all to do with image quality.

And yet so many of us still shoot film so there's at least something in the aesthetics of the image rendering that matters.

The whole point of a 'big' camera isn't to magically take better photos, it's to provide creative control to the photographer. If you are going to

just stick it on a present as i currently don’t have time to learn photography.

then there is absolutely no point in buying a dSLR. Nil, nada, forget it. You'd be better served with an IXUS.

then there is absolutely no point in buying a dSLR. Nil, nada, forget it. You’d be better served with an IXUS.

Well, the RX100 works like a posh Ixus 😉

I would go with ebay.

If you really cant be bothered CEX will give you £500ish for an A6400. Less money but less hassle than ebay.

it took me 3 months to notice I’d lost my last camera an RX100 version 1, as I just use my phone, my current phone is an iPhone 12.

For some reason I missed reading that bit.

In which case as others have suggested I’d choose the most expensive thing then sell it on marketplace or eBay and use the money to buy something that would really be used and would give the most pleasure/function.

Meanwhile maybe enjoying learning to take great pics with yr nice iPhone 12 camera? For easy fun just better learn to use the native Apple photo app + (say) Snapseed or If the pics are just for social media or small prints for contemporary tastes (ie punchy, toned, pin-sharp, oversaturated) then the latter should more than suffice. ‘Zoom’ with yr legs.

Ive been mullling it over and I’d come to the same conclusion that the RX iPhone is the camera I’m most likely to have with me which is the most important thing.

FTFY

I found what I judged to be a very balanced and fair comparison video (iphone vs mirrorless) which pleases me as a nitpicker. If you want easy + punchy then iPhone is that right out of the box and quickly. If you want subtle and accurate then DSLR (or even mirrorless) + an interest + acquired skills. Compact digital zooms OTOH are in some ways the odd one out. They are neither as properly compact, versatile, fast and simple (and weatherproof) as a smartphone, nor as ‘natural’, as satisfying or creamy-bokeh-tastic as an SLR.

I've got used to the menus on my RX, to the extent that I was happy to get an Alpha... I agree they are well slippery though, I have a Sony grip on mine and it makes a world of difference. I've no idea why it isn't standard...

The camera you have with you is the one you chose to take. If taking pictures is something you really care about, you will choose to take the camera that works best for you and gives you the results you want.

If you find that the camera you have with you is just the one you happened to have (because it's actually a phone not a camera), then you didn't go out to take pictures, you just went out (out) and the pictures are incidental so the camera you use is largely irrelevant.

The camera I have with me when I go out to take pictures weighs about 4kg and is the size of a small dog.

I've just picked a random photo that I know I couldn't have taken with a phone. Whether anyone apart from me likes it is subjective, but still....

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/4760/26448544398_464f696a75_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/4760/26448544398_464f696a75_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/GiaGNb ]DSC00638-2[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/85252658@N05/ ]davetheblade[/url], on Flickr

Sony Alpha A77ii SAM DT 16-50mm f2.8 - 16mm, ISO 800, f9.0, 2.5s

I have an rx100.

Yes it’s compromised by is small size. It’s the menus and controls are quirky.

But I haven’t broken it and it’s turned in loads of great photos where I would never have taken a bigger camera

I never go near the menus. I just leave it in aperture priority. Back dial does aperture, front ring iso down press then back dial for exposure compensation. I just use a centre focus point save shoot RAW

I have bought a mirrorless which is more fun to use. Key highlights are

More zoom range and zoom position stays when turned off

Turns on with a switch not a button

More able to adjust settings

Nice viewfinder

Buy in Blanche the rx 100 range is the camera for some one not into photography

https://www.flickr.com/gp/john_clinch/5E6Z24

I’ve just picked a random photo that I know I couldn’t have taken with a phone.

Which phone? My iPhone 11 Pro has a wide angled lense and with “night mode” will do fantastic long exposures whilst hand-held. Phones are coming on a lot.

Gorgeous image btw, I like it.

I have bought a mirrorless which is more fun to use

This is the key. Regardless of whether or not the op actually wants a dedicated camera, or a new point and shoot or whether to learn photography how to take better pics etc, ir would secretly prefer a new hoverboard etc - if it’s fun to use then that’s the big bonus and will usually return the best results.

For me the most taking photos fun is my Canon DSLR w/50mm prime on full manual or aperture priority. All the dials are in the right place and my left eye is up against the eyecup, looking into another quiet world. Not so much fun afterwards, in PP etc it just seems like PC/officework - at least compared to:

The other type of photo fun I enjoy of late is not carrying that bug bulk/weight nor having to transfer files etc, and instead having a 6” touch screen smartphone camera with me all of the time by which to take pics/videos instantly edit/review and/or share.

For someone else, both of the above options might be some kind of hell compared to their joy of using an RX100 (or some other compact zoom) or maybe a superzoom, or a mirrorless kit with 10 expensive lenses, or an Instant Polaroid with onboard printer, & c.

There are almost unlimited options/devices to having fun taking (or not taking) pictures and for different reasons/end uses, and we’re of course all individuals:

If it isn’t fun for you, you’ll probably not bother.

* Also love taking creative low-light urban scenes and bought the 1st RX100 with that in mind. I’m hoping the iPhone can do similar while also being fun for me. Otherwise I take the dSLR.

Whether anyone apart from me likes it is subjective,

It’s also (your pic) well-composed and I find it interesting. Ace 👍🏼

I’ve just picked a random photo that I know I couldn’t have taken with a phone. Whether anyone apart from me likes it is subjective, but still….

But a picture like that takes thought and it takes preparation, which takes time. That picture wasn't made good simply by swapping a phone for a DSLR.

But a picture like that takes thought and it takes preparation, which takes time. That picture wasn’t made good simply by swapping a phone for a DSLR.

But if I hadn't had my DSLT (Sony terminology) when I was passing Cromford canal after a night shift and only had my phone, I probably wouldn't have stopped at all. If I had stopped, I doubt I'd have gotten that pic with my phone

Which phone? My iPhone 11 Pro has a wide angled lense and with “night mode” will do fantastic long exposures whilst hand-held. Phones are coming on a lot.

Gorgeous image btw, I like it.

Ta - I'm just using a tough phone (Blackview) at the moment, which has no chance - the Samsung Note 10 that's been smashed for a year now wouldn't have managed it either. I know iPhones are better, but a tiny sensor can only do so much

t’s also (your pic) well-composed and I find it interesting. Ace 👍🏼

Ta!

I took this with the Samsung, but you can see it's dynamic limitations.

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/4600/24614482217_08dc9f1d8e_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/4600/24614482217_08dc9f1d8e_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/Dv6E1r ]2018-01-03_10-36-50[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/85252658@N05/ ]davetheblade[/url], on Flickr

I took this with the Samsung, but you can see it’s dynamic limitations.

You can but realistically there isn't a digital camera you can buy that would have not resulted in some highlights being blown.

I probably wouldn’t have stopped at all

I understand this. Cameras do shape process and process does shape the final image. I never take anything more than dull crappy family memory snaps on my phone because as an ergonomic device it sucks for image making.

This connection between equipment, process and image is the reason most fine art photographers, and even some commercial photographers, still insist on shooting (large or medium format) film; the medium changes your response to the scene, ironically precisely because of its limitations.

I’m not qualified to tell you the difference between cameras, or whether you can take as good a photo with a phone these days, but from my own personal experience - I bought a DSLR about 15 years ago as I wanted to take some nice photos. I spent a couple of years doing just that, helped by a couple of expensive lenses, but eventually I found out that 1. I’m not artistic enough to take really nice photos despite having a good camera, and 2. It started to feel like too much faff carrying a camera bag everywhere, especially once the kids came along. I’m sad to say that this once lovely DSLR hasn’t been out of the cupboard for more than 5 years.

My point is, if you aren’t into photography will you also get to the point where you just use your phone because it’s easier?

You can but realistically there isn’t a digital camera you can buy that would have not resulted in some highlights being blown.

For sure - this was the closest timewise I took with the Sony. Of course it still has blown highlights, but the difference is plain to see. Of course you know this, but as a side by side demonstration for other folk to see. Excuse the over processing and dust spots

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/4563/37908891014_520d78d86e_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/4563/37908891014_520d78d86e_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/ZKSYzd ]DSC00341_2_3_4_5-2[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/85252658@N05/ ]davetheblade[/url], on Flickr

I'm not sure where this is going other than arguing for fun, but isn't the best camera the one you like using?

I think anyone interested in photography needs to at least try a DSLR (or similar mirrorless), because for me it made all the difference. Having a physical object to interact with, all the controls at my fingertips and a choice of lenses means I enjoy the process of taking photos much more, which means I'm more likely to learn and experiment and be creative with it.

If you're not that interested or if you've tried it and find carrying the camera around to be a chore, then by all means stick with your phone. It's great that I can have a very capable camera in my pocket and I get a lot of use out of that too.

I don't want to take over this thread, so will shush soon. This one is a bit more 'natural', but still - aint no phone going to be taking that.

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/4531/37908884304_9b4178fdbc_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/4531/37908884304_9b4178fdbc_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/ZKSWzw ]DSC00531-2[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/85252658@N05/ ]davetheblade[/url], on Flickr

ND filters were used iirc

All this said, I haven't used my proper camera in ages

I bought the RX100 principally to ‘replace’ the dSLR for urban street photography (principally low light/night) and used the rear rack on the bike (parked with sidestand) to affix a Gorillapod for the purpose of low noise long exposures. It soon became evident that the little compact could take a surprisingly detailed low light exposure - but any light source/s would show a very (IMO) unattractive halo and the whole shaboodle looked ‘digital’ compared to low-light work via the dSLR.

As for ‘image quality’ (there’s an undefined and ambiguous term) - smartphones (and compacts) are better in low light than they were but not quite yet(insert your DXO/obsession/aesthetic). I’m looking fwd to seeing how the iPhone 11 compares to my old attempts via dslr and compact zooms.

BTW IQ VS processing = the closing gap

https://flic.kr/p/2ndyt9V

Wow ^^^

What was your set up for that?

This one is a bit more ‘natural’, but still – aint no phone going to be taking that.

No?

But if I hadn’t had my DSLT (Sony terminology) when I was passing Cromford canal after a night shift and only had my phone, I probably wouldn’t have stopped at all. If I had stopped, I doubt I’d have gotten that pic with my phone

Right, and my point all along is that for that to be the case, for you to have your DSLR with you, you have to be making an effort to 'do' photography; it has to be a hobby. If it's not a hobby and you're not going to 'get into' it then don't buy a DSLR it'll be a waste of money.

No?

I'm not saying it's a great photo, but I don't think you'd get the dynamic range from a phone sensor

Right, and my point all along is that for that to be the case, for you to have your DSLR with you, you have to be making an effort to ‘do’ photography; it has to be a hobby. If it’s not a hobby and you’re not going to ‘get into’ it then don’t buy a DSLR it’ll be a waste of money.

Yeah, fair do's