[Closed] Digital Addiction

Thought this was going to be about fingers

I want them to grow up, learning to cut and stack wood.

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[i]She found him sitting up in his bed staring wide-eyed, his bloodshot eyes looking into the distance as his glowing iPad lay next to him. He seemed to be in a trance.[/i]

You know what.. I think that's scare-mongering bollocks.

Like most things, it's all about balance.

Anyone have any counter-points?

Your parents said the same thing about TV when you were a lad.

And their parents probably said the same thing about books.

Ah, there we are - someone has a book to sell:

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waddaloadaballs

Saxon,I think it must be hard for your kids when they see how much their dad is online 😉 😆 😆

Preparing your kids for life in the 1970s is an odd choice. I guess they can move to Wales.

or New Zealand

😉

There's some truth in it. We're more lenient with No1 Son over the Hols, but left unchecked he'll spend every waking moment staring at something - he angrily moves from PC to Console to iPad as/when he has to move because his sister wants to watch Peppa Pig or something. His reaction is massively disproportional, arms waving, angry shouting etc - it's like a junkie coming off gear (okay, that's exaggerating, but there's an element of it).

Back in term time now his iPad lives in my office, because he is a NIGHTMARE with it, the PC is password locked and he doesn't know it and the console died a few weeks ago. Even I think it's harsh, but it's like living with a monster when he's allowed free reign, he's dishonest - always trying to hide his ipad in his room so he came spend all night watching minecraft videos or 'slenderman' stuff. Shouting at his 2 year old sister because he wants to play with the keyboard when he's on minecraft. So he gets a few hours at the weekend.

He's 11 in a few weeks and wants a mobile phone, which he's getting - how long he'll keep it though is another matter, he had his ipad when he was 8, it lasted 3 months before it was banned only to be brought home at holidays and xmas, he had a mobile off his Granddad last year, that lasted a week before it was taken off him for being a sod to live with and an ipod touch which got smashed up - we told him to not take it out to play as 1) someone would break it, 2) without wi-fi it was all but useless. He hid it in his shorts and took it out - it got smashed.

I'll be amazed if he's still got it at Xmas.

learning to cut and stack wood,

If you are serious, then that's the most STW post ever.

He's 11 in a few weeks and wants a mobile phone, which he's getting - how long he'll keep it though is another matter, he had his ipad when he was 8, it lasted 3 months before it was banned only to be brought home at holidays and xmas,

Why are you buying him gadgets to take off him? No wonder he's sneaking about behind your back.

There's letting your 6 yo kid use your ipad, and then there's buying the 6yo his own ipad like the author of that piece. Bobbins ensues.

No responsible parent thinks unstructured access to digital media is a good thing - you only have to see the reaction of kids when you take the tablet off them, it's completely obvious that it needs some management. Pretty much everyone is able to do this without it turning into some sort of bogus crisis of our age.

To put things into perspective, [url= http://www.nytimes.com/1990/10/16/science/how-viewers-grow-addicted-to-television.html ]here is an article from the New York Times from the pre-digital dark ages of 1990, talking about the dangers of television addiction[/url].

From the article:

..researchers have found, television tends to elicit a state of ''attentional inertia,'' marked by lowered activity in the part of the brain that processes complex information.
..
One prominent theory of television addiction, proposed by Jerome Singer, a psychologist at Yale University, holds that people who watch too much television from childhood grow up with a deprived fantasy life.

Sounds familiar.

Saxon,I think it must be hard for your kids when they see how much their dad is online

Hey! I get paid to do this!

@DezB: I fully recognise that the initial anecdote is hyper-dramatised, but it's whether or not there is a legitimate concern behind it.

No responsible parent thinks unstructured access to digital media is a good thing

I would like to agree, but I have been surprised by the generally thoughtful, caring people I have met, whose children have virtually unfettered access to anything digital.

Just take a trip up the M6 sometime, and, as you sit motionless for 6 hours between Birmingham and Sandbach, look at the families whose kids are in the back seat watching the built-in screens or playing on iPads. I can see that, in moderation, these things are fine. But why not books? Or conversation?

Why are you buying him gadgets to take off him? No wonder he's sneaking about behind your back.

I'm not, he's asked for a Gadget, it's age appropriate and it'll come with some rules.

Basically he can use it whenever he wants, wherever he wants except - after bed-time or at school (school rules).

If he refuses to do his homework, chores (or chore to be exact, his only job in the house is to get the table ready for dinner) or get ready when he needs to, because he's won't put it down - it gets taken off him for a few hours.

In theory it's a 3 strikes in a week rule, he usually get double that. If he can stick to the rules he can have it forever more, he hasn't managed it yet, but he's a bit older now, and he knows without any shadow of doubt that we'll stick to them.

But why not books? Or conversation?

Duh?

learning to cut and stack wood,

You can probably do that in Minecraft. 🙂

Whatever era (certainly over the last century or so) theres always been a ready supply of pre-digested entertainment for children whether its comic books or video games. Theres nothing new about kids preferring that easy option over having to go out the door and make their own choices - some of which might be bad ones or boring ones.

GrahamS - Member

To put things into perspective, here is an article from the New York Times from the pre-digital dark ages of 1990, talking about the dangers of television addiction.

From the article:

..researchers have found, television tends to elicit a state of ''attentional inertia,'' marked by lowered activity in the part of the brain that processes complex information.

Sounds familiar.

Me:

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😉

Just take a trip up the M6 sometime, and, as you sit motionless for 6 hours between Birmingham and Sandbach..
But why not books? Or conversation?

Reading in the car = insta-vomit for most kids (and many adults).

Conversation? Have you tried spending six hours having a half-heard conversation over your shoulder with a bored three year old??

Take a chance to teach them how to best use technology.

Technology will be more of their adult world than it will have been yours, denying them the ability to use it correctly may well hamper them in later life.

It's all about balance. One end of the spectrum is living like the Amish and the other relying on the TV and computers to parent your child for you.
Technology isn't going anywhere, until the zombie apocalypse happens being comfortable using a computer is probably more relevant/useful in life these days than knowing how to chop and stack wood.
Computer games aren't inherently bad either, you just need to moderate the time spent playing them. My nieces and nephews have a Wii, PS4 and access to iPads and laptops but they're restricted on how much they can use them

Amongst other things I make public sculptures. When the last one was installed I was told that the audience for my work is 'dreamy kids looking out of their parent's car windows'.

My career's fubarred if there aren't any more dreamy kids looking out the window anymore. 🙂

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My career's fubarred if there aren't any more dreamy kids.

Isn't that what got Rolf Harris into trouble?

Isn't that what got Rolf Harris into trouble?

"Can you tell what it is yet?"

Response to the OP's article here...
http://www.theverge.com/2016/8/30/12715848/new-york-post-internet-texting-addiction-irresponsible-hysteria

Remember, if you want more info on digital heroin, the author of the OP's article has a book - BUT CAREFUL NOT TO GET THE E-BOOK VERSION! 🙂 http://us.macmillan.com/glowkids/nicholaskardaras

I started playing computer games, then writing computer games, then studying maths to use in the games, then studying maths + computers at university, and now i use all that at work!

Digital != bad.

I started playing computer games, then writing computer games, then studying maths to use in the games, then studying maths + computers at university, and now i use all that at work!

Last time I had this conversation (with a local parents group) it was a "study" published by a "doctor" who just happened to run a website selling very expensive board games and information packs to help "digital detox" your children 🙄

Likewise. Getting a ZX81 for my birthday is directly responsible for everything I have in life.

Yep. I had an Atari 2600, then got a second-hand ZX81 (with 16K ram pack) given to me in an old shoe-box one Christmas. And thus began my career as a software engineer.

my boys, 10 and 13, have ipads/iphones/xboxes and we don't restrict their use.

There is a natural restriction as they go to school on weekdays, both play in local footie teams, both ride bikes (eldest in in a development club), youngest goes to cubs etc etc.

So on the evenings when they have some time we are quite happy for them to be playing with technology/online. They will also sit and watch tv/Sky/Prime etc, often with us 🙂 The only real restriction we impose is around bedtime, when all devices need to be out their rooms, which they are fine with.

IMO these things find their natural balance and as long as they have access to a wide range of other activities it seems to settle out fine.

Getting a ZX81 for my birthday

Acorn System 3 here...

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My dad was involved in the BBC Micro project and we got to test BBC Basic for a year before the BBC Micro came out. Got a new 5 1/4" floppy every week with the latest version...

Got a new 5 1/4" floppy every week with the latest version...

Isn't that what got Rolf Harris into trouble?

@HH: thanks for that response article. It's exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.

footflaps - You had one of those at home?

I am jealous even though it was nearly 40 years ago.

Did you have rockstar status in the schoolyard? 🙂

learning to cut and stack wood,

I don't think you've thought this through

In the 1920s, they blamed the record player. In the 1930s, it was the radio. By the 1960s it was television. I remember my parents trying to enforce rules about my computer time without any understanding of what I was actually doing, but that didn't stop them from assuming that I was playing the type of games that Teddy Taylor raged against in the Daily Mail.

"It'll rot your mind, you know!".

All things in balance, if you have set times for kids to play with gadgets and you ensure that they stick to them then fine. Reading time is good, as is trying to encourage them to go and play outside.

However, kids form their own narratives with various activities, whether they're playing video games or with Lego or whatever. There are some video games that provide creative outlets and learning opportunities - Minecraft and the Civilization series spring to mind. My stepsons learned more about the Cuban Missile crisis and the characters involved by playing CoD of all things...

SaxonRider -
@HH: thanks for that response article. It's exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.

There was me thinking, that's what you got from this thread.

footflaps - You had one of those at home?

Yep, and a ZX80, ZX81, then later a BBC Micro, BBC Electron etc

We even had a dual density, double sided dual disk drive which cost £800, weighted about 15kg and was 'state of the art for 1980' and had all of 800k capacity!

All because the place my dad worked at was publishing this, the official course book to the BBC Micro as part of the overall educational programme.

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Getting a ZX81 for my birthday is directly responsible for everything I have in life.

I read this and thought that's surely hyperbole, but on reflection I think you might be right.

I was always into gadgetry, and I was fascinated by how things worked. I was that kid who was forever taking stuff to bits (and failing to put them back together, probably a good job I didn't get into biology). I remember the first time I saw a "TV game" - one of those home Pong-a-likes - at a cousin's and it blew my tiny mind. I ultimately got one myself one Christmas and was enthralled.

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Later I remember some bloke giving a talk at my primary school, he'd brought in a ZX81 and hooked it up to the school TV (remember the ones with the wood finish, with cabinet doors that opened up in a way that they blocked light pollution from the sides?). I sat there with goggle-eyed wonder, what magic is this? It seemed so... futuristic and so hopelessly unattainable.

Fast forward to secondary school, round at a new friend's house and he had a 16K ZX Spectrum. We played some crappy game on it and I just knew to my core that I had to have this. My joint Christmas and Birthday present from my parents and grandparents that year was a 48K megabeast and three truly dreadful games. "It'll help with my homework," lied every 11-year old in the country.

I spent the next few years hammering the thing. Mostly playing games of course, but typing in listings from magazines and eventually (badly) writing my own. I had a partnership with a mate across the road who also had one; I'd do all the coding and design all the UDG graphics, he'd insist that his name came first on the credits. 🙄

I was never restricted - or at least, never formally restricted, I probably got told to go out and play sometimes, or go to bed - but as Iainc says we had other diversions. We'd ride bikes, kick balls around and generally get into pre-teen mischief. And Lego, man I was Lego-obsessed. But I digress.

From the Speccy I was an early adopter of an Atari ST (after seeing Starglider running on one owned by a mate's dad and having my mind blown [i]again[/i]), went on to study Computing at A'level and then at University. College and Uni introduced me to networks, and I spent four years hacking the shit out of the PR1ME minicomputers they had there. Talking to someone in another room was mind-bending in 1988; the next year we'd managed to illicitly connect to other colleges in the local area; by 1991 at Uni I'd managed to escape the establishment's walled garden and break out of JANET. Bear in mind, this was pre-web, there were no search engines, no TCP/IP even unless you could find a remote gateway you could PAD to over X25. Remote addresses were discovered by word of mouth, legacy discoveries handed down from the year above, tenacity and blind luck. I remember clearly the sheer unbridled excitement when I first connected to a machine in ANOTHER COUNTRY! Holy crap, I'm on a MUD in Germany!

Then the [url= http://www.mono.org ]Mono[/url] BBS came along, which I've talked about before as it's very similar in feel to this forum. From online discussions communities formed, then meetups, real friendships. Real relationships. My last two girlfriends' first contact was via Mono, the latter whom would some years later become me wife.

After University, I started a career in Tech Support. Whilst it was an awful company to work for I learned a lot, and because by then I'd spent a decade frobbing about with tech I had the logic and creativity to earn me a promotion inside of six months, ahead of the lags who'd been there years. I also made a number of good friends, there was a kind of front-line comradery going on as we were "all in it together."

The ST went in favour of my first PC, a 486DX50 behemoth that cost me 1500 quid. I spent years with my head in CONFIG.SYS, jumper settings, IRQ conflicts, EMM386, and the rest of the trappings that to this day still cause geeks of my age to wake up screaming.

From there I've had various jobs (mostly) in and around technology, be that support, development, management, and in the nearly ten years I've been with my current company I've been attached to every technical department they have (support, implementation, customer 'cloud' infrastructure, internal IT, etc etc).

So yes. In a very real way my humble ZX Spectrum, and arguably that Pong console, is directly responsible for everything I have in life. My career would've been very different, I'd probably be bumming around still not knowing what to do with myself, my friends circle would've been startlingly different and I'd hazard considerably smaller (not least because I'm Aspie and online interaction taught me how to talk to people) and I certainly would never have met the wonderful woman who is my wife. Come to think of it, I'd probably still be single as I'd have been scared to talk to girls.

So give your kid his ****ing iPad back.

My 5yr old daughter loves the ipad and like others on here she gets angry when you take it off her. We've learnt to warn her, 'okay in 2 minutes I'm coming up to get you dressed' or similar and also we've taken a hard line on acting up when it's time to come off, 'Put it away quietly without fuss when I ask you or you won't get it tomorrow' After a couple of times without it and the reasons why explained to her we have pretty much full compliance.
The ipad is a blessing for sleeping adults though. 😀

Getting a ZX81 for my birthday is directly responsible for everything I have in life.

Theres a probably made up fact that around 1/3 of kids starting school today will begin their working life in careers that don't even exist yet.

And I'm of the generation who friends with geeky parents had BBC Micros wired up robot arms (and later Sinclair QLs and speech synthesisers) and school lunchtime computer clubs (but only clubs - not lessons). And if their parents weren't geeks they probably had a spectrum and an interest in tape-to-tape instead. Computers weren't at that time a career for anyone other than people actively involved in making computers. Accessible, useful computers that helped you do things (rather than being the thing you did) hadn't yet happened.

Yet when Friends Renuinted came alone (remember that?) it turned out I was the only kid from my class who doesn't now work in IT

The difference to when i were a lad, and people were worried about excessive TV exposure was that there were only 4 TV channels and frankly, not very many programs that actually held any interest to a child. No that everything is "on demand" we get greedy, and there is more content that you can possibly absorb if left unchecked imo.