[Closed] Die-hard petrolhead's first week driving a diesel...

The old mechnical TD's (Citroen / Peugoet) were very hard to stall but I've driven plenty of VAG diesels to say that they are plenty easy enough to stall.

I've never driven a dual clutch diesel but they do sound a bit of a pain around town. I personally like diesel+auto as a combo - but with a big old diesel engine!

My idea of hell on earth would be an automatic VW Passat diesel with turbo lag.

What a nutcase.

but why?

I hate autos and I hate turbo lag and I don't like the 'rolling along' nature of driving a diesel, even the alfa ones.

I also don't like the 'we're doing you a favour looking at your car/letting you have a test drive' attitude of most vw garages I have been to.

Plus the alfa garage I used to go had several franchises and the cars they had most problems with at the time were passats.

Lastly, as I have mentioned before, there is a strong correlation between old gits/middle lane hoggers and passat drivers.

I may be the kind of weirdo who likes diesels but telling lies on internet forums isn't my thing.

I might go and video the Eos's speedo for you attempting the same thing....

You are making a mountain out of a molehill imo.

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Oh yeah. Another running cost. What's your deppreciation like, pray tell?
I worked out when we bought the Focus (at 3 years old) that although a comparable VW Golf lost less as a percentage over a given amount of time, because the purchase price was so much higher in the first place it actually lost about £400 (IIRC) more over the same period....

I hate autos

Oddly, I love autos. 🙂

Hell on earth though? Seriously?

I prefer diesels to small petrols, but I'm prepared to look on the advantages of either and any type of car. I just don't like hyperbolic rhetoric 🙂

As for the old people middle lane thing - who gives a crap? You know Passats don't CAUSE middle lane hogging, so why even bring it up?

EDIT Oh I know why... trolling.. silly me.

What's your deppreciation like, pray tell?

I've no idea really. I bought it for 10 grand two years ago, and I don't intend to sell it any time soon. As far as I'm concerned I've spent ten grand, and I have a car 🙂

I looked at Golfs and Focuses at the time - I didn't really like the Focus, almost went for a Jetta but the Passat was more car for less - the above image problems seem to make them much better bargains 🙂

Also - Tyres. Big diesels eat tyres

My Land Rover weighs 2.7 tonnes, and has a 240+hp 2.7 litre turbodiesel engine. Big in just about every sense.

The current tyres are on about 25k at present and still have 4-5mm of tread.

but middle lane hoggers appear to be attracted to passats for some reason.

They only eat tyres if you boot it around. A car going from 0-60 in 9 seconds puts the same force through the tyres regardless of fuel. Don't get engine torque spread confused with wheel torque 🙂

Re middle lane - I don't hog the middle lane, if that's what you're insinuating?

I prefer diesels to small petrols,

I actually prefer sodding great big petrol engines. But I'm not a millionaire, so I haven't got one, sadly.

When we bough the Focus (Search criteria - NOT silver/grey and NOT French, seriously) I did the sums as best as I could and at the time and the running costs were the same as the diesel Vectra we had before it. Things ahve changed a bit since (Fuel price and the milage I'm doing for work) but I still don't think it's costing significantly more tha said Vectra. Maybe £100 or so more a year. I've not done the sums exactly.
That said, I'm getting 45p/mile through work, so I don't care really 🙂
The only thing I'm regretting is not holding out for a Ghia model with cruise control. I'm gettng a bad knee from holding the throttle still for so long, so I'm getting cruise fitted in a couple of weeks. It's just not economical to change the car right now.

I also think a diesel focus would be more efficient than a vectra, surely?

Worst thing about Fords for me is that they don't like fitting cruise control.

Oddly, I love autos

it the slipping clutch sound I hate - a selespeed type box is better as it double declutches all the time, but then you have to put up with those stupid paddles which mean you have to use the main gearshift anyway when negotiating things like roundabouts.

Went from a civic type-R to a seat Leon 140tdi. To say that they are at different ends of the rev range is an understatement. Lasted a week before it was in for a remap. Now produces 180bhp and is very touquey. Cruise at 70 on the motorway, put your foot down and it just, well you know, goes.

Diesel cons
- Massive dead spot of power under about 2k revs - pulling away from a junction in 2nd is dangerous (I have stalled once and almost come to a stop on a couple of occasions)
- It takes a while for the power to come in if under 3k revs
- I am finding myself having to make more gear changes in urban traffic

Sounds like the OP needs to buy himself a decent diesel. I've had no such issues with the BMW and Mercedes diesels I've had. All have pulled cleanly from low revs (especially the new twin turbo Merc engines). More torque means less gear changes unless the engine is really peaky in which case its badly designed or obsolete.

I've also driven a diesel A4 for a few hundred miles (not the 174bhp engine) and it didn't exhibit any of the above issues either.

Pulling away from a junction in second is dangerous in any car.

Pulling away from a junction in second is dangerous in any car.

I fully accept I need to change my driving style.

Pulling away from a junction in second is dangerous in any car.

Statements like that are nonsensical - I can spin 3 wheels pulling away from a junction in 2nd in the wet in my petrol.

My 90hp diesel 306 can pull away (slowly, admittedly!) in 5th if I need it to, without giving it any revs. Never met a diesel that was easier to stall than a petrol, but they may exist I suppose.

MF it will pull away in second from a trundle, there'll just be a slight delay in the power delivery. Small price to pay for what, double the fuel economy, in my book. You should not need first. Could always dip the clutch if you needed to I suppose.

you have to put up with those stupid paddles

On VWs the 'stupid' paddles are only for manual mode, there's a fully automatic mode if you want it.

Re-mapping for diesels is the way to go! VW130PD diesel producing 187bhp & 290lb/ft torque. Smoothed out "lumpy" power delivery & brings turbo in sooner. Holds good power/torque curve throughout rev range, so no need to be up & down gearbox.
Did have to learn to be more gentle with throttle/clutch when wanting to make fast pull-aways, even from trundling on tickover in 2nd, as can quite happily spin up the tyres.

what has the remapping done to your insurance, or did you not declare it?

I was taught the rule that if the car is moving I should use 2nd gear - only ever use 1st when the car is stationary.

A well if you're moving then that's OK. Should still work OK with a decent diesel

To the OP from today's Autocar - Audi A6 2.0Tdi 174bhp review "engine suffers from poor throttle response at low crank speeds".

It sounds like the ECU map is too biased to economy for low revs and it completely agrees with your initial impressions.

Worst thing about Fords for me is that they don't like fitting cruise control.

Agreed. And unlike a Vauxhall, you can't buy a new stalk with the switch on and just plug it in 🙁 I'm going here http://www.conrad-anderson.co.uk/ to get it fitted.

Fiat, meanwhile, seem to fit cruise to more Bravos than not.

I was taught the rule that if the car is moving I should use 2nd gear - only ever use 1st when the car is stationary.

I wasn't taught that as such, but I was taught to roll up to give ways in 2nd, have a good look and try to not stop. I learned in a Pug 205 Diesel..... no turbo.... 🙂
If a car is moving 1st isn't necessary. It should pull from 5-6mph in 2nd nice and smoothly, with enough poke for general driving. (If it's a small gap, then drop to 1st gear and light the tyres up though! 😉 )

mastiles_fanylion - Member

Diesel cons
- Massive dead spot of power under about 2k revs - pulling away from a junction in 2nd is dangerous

Mine'll pull away at idle in second without any fuss. Ironically comparing with a similiar spec petrol car, I stalled the petrol one constantly as it was so incredibly gutless.

diesels rule, we have two fiestas 1.4tdci and a 16.tdci, £30 tax a year each and 60+mpg, easy to service yourself no brainer.

christ you lot need to get out more 😉

If a car is moving 1st isn't necessary

I was taught the same, and I still never had a problem in diesel 🙂 Even my auto does the same thing.

To the OP from today's Autocar - Audi A6 2.0Tdi 174bhp review "engine suffers from poor throttle response at low crank speeds".
It sounds like the ECU map is too biased to economy for low revs and it completely agrees with your initial impressions.

Get the revs up then 🙂

Yup - will be relearning my driving style after 26 years!

It's a lease company car. Brick on the accelerator! Problem solved.

It is highly frustrating though to get a new car and know it's going to be a hassle for the next couple of years.

God I hope not! I am banking on getting used to it.

It's not that big of a deal. New phone - learn how to use it. New camera - learn its features. New car - learn the right driving style. Simples.

At least the pushchair fits in the boot without having to defy the laws of physics 🙂

No 3 litre V6 TDI then? I fancy one of those in 4wd... not economical enough tho but still 🙂

I think it's incredibly hard to stall a diesel, you really have to dump the clutch when it's ticking over to manage it.

VAG diesels aren't the best for that though and you are in a big heavy car there. Try a Honda diesel, you can drive it all day without ever touching the accelerator.

When I get in a petrol car now it feels like I'm screaming it to get it moving. I find myself trying to shrink in the seat because I think everyone will be looking at me as I squeal the knackers off it trying to get it up to pace.

Samuri - you are wrong. Perhaps with some but not all.

I love my little petrol, 1.4 turbo Alfa Mito

theres something very pleasing about 6000 revs in 2nd, ram it up into 3rd all the way to 6000 again. puts such a massive smile on my face.

before you lot rant and rave generally getting onto a motorway from a standing start and sod fuel economy i want to have fun 🙂

I find it pleasing to do the same thing, titusrider. It's just that the numbers on my dial say 4,500 instead of 6,000. The experience is the same, the numbers are not important.

The experience is the same

'fraid the sound isn't the same - even in an alfa diesel.

Some people suit diesels. I always got/get above manufacturers mpg in a diesel and always woefully under in a petrol.

+1 molgrips

titusrider - Member
I love my little petrol, 1.4 turbo Alfa Mito

theres something very pleasing about 6000 revs in 2nd, ram it up into 3rd all the way to 6000 again. puts such a massive smile on my face.

before you lot rant and rave generally getting onto a motorway from a standing start and sod fuel economy i want to have fun

My first car was a Hillman Imp which could go to 8000rpm, now that was fun 😉

Funny, I love cars but I just can't get excited about cars used for driving around on public roads.

From reading this thread, you'd think you're all race car engineers, tinkering with your cars for the upcoming Japanese GP. 😆

fraid the sound isn't the same

Lol.. as if the sound of a 1.6 or 2.0 petrol is going to set your soul on fire! Hahaha.. remember we are comparing normal everyday cars here, not everyday cars against thrilling sports cars.

as if the sound of a 1.6 or 2.0 petrol is going to set your soul on fire

why not?

there have been loads of standard cars with engines of 2l or less that could easily be termed 'thrilling sports cars'.

Funny, I love cars but I just can't get excited about cars used for driving around on public roads.

why not ? there are still loads of windy country roads that you can enjoy driving round at legal speeds.

You just have to choose the right car/wheel/tyre size so you get the appropriate feedback from the road.

Probably because I've seen some pretty horrendous accidents caused by people enjoying driving round at legal speeds unfortunately. YMMV