[Closed] Dick out?

As has been pointed out, don’t forget who oversaw the operation that ended up with Jean Charles de Menezes being shot dead. I’m not sure she’ll be going anywhere.

Bad when you think other police forces stayed in the background, eg GMP at St Peter's Square

It's got the stench of the Home Sec all over it, particularly when the protesters today would be liable for ten years in prison for "causing a nuisance" according to the wording of the Sentencing Bill going through parliament on Monday.

It’s got the stench of the Home Sec all over it

They were exactly my thoughts. It’s got her fingerprints all over it. She’s a cold-hearted sociopath.

She’s the daughter of immigrants who persecuted immigrants, so it’s difficult to imagine her having any empathy with people who just happen to be the same sex as her

Aye, "...difficult to imagine her having any empathy" full stop.

Dick is also in complete denial about any racism in the Met so not fit to be there based on that alone. Unless that was the work of Patel too.

I thought I had read that politicians had intervened and told the police that they had to stop the protest. i cannot find that now.

Yeah this is the work of Patel.

Time to form a Pentagram (sorry square)  around the Pritster

Well it's good that a bunch of men on the internet have worked out this is all the fault of a couple of women.😀

Well it’s good that a bunch of men on the internet have worked out this is all the fault of a couple of women

🤣

Would have been interesting how elements of the Press would have reacted if the Police have stood back, and let the (apparently) unlawful protest go ahead.

I'm no fan of Cressida Dick, but Patel's lack of awareness and her own background is truly amazing.

Well it’s good that a bunch of men on the internet have worked out this is all the fault of a couple of women

Irrelevant. The Commissioner of the Met, and potentially also the Home Secretary (be interesting to see whether Patel's fingerprints are on this as the HS is also asking for an explanation) are being held accountable. Who they are is not the point.

Bad all round. We are in the middle of a pandemic and just the same as I think other protests should not have gone ahead, nor should this one. The Met should have worked with the Reclaim groups to work out how the protest could have happened by other means, but seems like failure to engage in that discussion properly has lead to this. Which then appears to have gone badly wrong.

But I'm also concerned about the shutdown of legitimate protest; the rationale here is because of the pandemic it's for everyone's safety. Not a massive stretch to consider that all protests have a potential to become unsafe, with a bit of bad luck / mal-intent from certain quarters......where does it go next?

Photos I've seen are not great, but I wonder about foreshortening lenses being used again.

I’m so cross about the Met treatment last night. Yes, it did break lockdown rules which I don’t support. But from what I’ve seen those woman last night were not behaving in the same thuggish way as a bunch of football supporters. The whole week has felt overwhelming and this is the final straw. How can I feel the police are there to protect me? It has certainly made me even more empathetic to the BLM movement

The Met should have worked with the Reclaim groups to work out how the protest could have happened by other means

Absolutely. It was perfectly clear that the protesters were determined to go ahead. Met police should've changed their approach and taken steps to help them with that rather than become another obstruction.

Excellent points by theotherjonv - there are obvious parallels to last summer's protests.

Though none were linked to a spike in cases, which does bring you to his other point about the virus being used to stifle protest. Any protest can go wrong, getboutbof hand or turn to violence, we've seen it happen, but that shouldn't be forever used as a reason to stifle protest.

Ahsat - I get the point you are making but why do you have to liken this to football supporters (a whole demographic in itself)

Hundreds of thousands, millions even of people go to (went to) football every week and a very small minority have ever created trouble.

In asking for fairness and respect, you have to give it too.

Ahsat – I get the point you are making but why do you have to liken this to football supporters (a whole demographic in itself)

I’m relating it to the Rangers (?) celebrations in St George’s Square last week, which also broke lockdown rules (which others have also referenced above). I’m am sorry - I was not specific - emotion got the better of me. Police did not behave in the same way there.

I fully agree not all football supporters at the same. I have been to matches myself. My comment was given in the context of the lockdown restrictions and recent groups on the street.

but why do you have to liken this to football supporters

Did you not see the Police escorting the Rangers fans last weekend, and then the subsequent free for all afterwards?

Compare and contrast, as they say...

It was perfectly clear that the protesters were determined to go ahead.

Actually having read further this morning, seems like the original protest was cancelled and became the candles on doorsteps vigil from last night.

Another group them refused to accept and said they would go ahead anyway.

Does not condone the handling or change the opinions but worth noting the actual facts around 'working with the Reclaim group' who I think come out of this even better - because of the Met refusing to engage, they then did change their protest

I don't deny that SOME football supporters are thugs and idiots. Still far too many.

But as a football fan of 40+ years who has never engaged in that sort of behaviour, yes being tarred regularly with that same brush every time an example of a badly behaved crowd is needed does irk me enough to call it out where I see it.  Sure call it what it is - like 'some football fans', or 'the idiot Rangers fans last week'. I condemn them all.

Anyway, it's not about that, and Ahsat has commented so move on.

There's a lot to come out about why this protest was met with such active intervention; as i said Patel has asked for an explanation - surely she's not daft enough to be asking for a report on her own instructions, makes me wonder who did decide to start going in and detaining people then.

Also:

Police did not behave in the same way there (referring to the Rangers fans)

Police didn't behave in the same way last night in Nottingham, Bristol, Edinburgh, Cambridge........ why did the Met, and who told them to. That's the question.

[also, hate to mention football again, but title reminds me of a game in the 90's - poss apocryphal tale - but neither of the opposing managers were having great seasons, both sets of fans of fans were calling for their removal, and the game had a prolonged period of call and answer chanting from either end of the ground of 'Dicks out'....'Cox out'.....'Dicks out'....'Cox out']

Back to topic.

My emotion with the whole thing is pretty high and on edge. Sarah was 2 years below me in Geography at Durham. I didn’t know her personally (I recognise the name) but friends and colleagues of mine do. And it all feels very close to home as a 30 something female.

As a result I’m going to step away from this thread (I realise it’s about the Met policing last night but I know I might struggle to be objective). Back to new bike threads and working out how to post pictures 😛

I'm sorry about that, not least as a fellow Durham graduate (fair bit older mind)

[edited other comments from here into the other thread where they are more relevant]

There’s a lot to come out about why this protest was met with such active intervention

It's not like the Met have form for this after all...

It's taken me a while to realise (I'm a slow learner) the cops aren't on our side...

Would have been interesting how elements of the Press would have reacted if the Police have stood back, and let the (apparently) unlawful protest go ahead.

I think they'd keep quiet. Don't forget the more gammony press are very anti-lockdown so outside protest is a Good Thing. But women being safe is a Bad Thing.

You have to ask yourself how something that could be handled easily and thoughtfully could be so catastrophically ballsed up - and the answer is very easily found if you consider Priti Patel.

While individual Police officers may have reservations about what they're ordered to do, never forget that they are employed by the State to protect the State, and to follow its orders. They are not there primarily to protect individuals; it happens if the State's wishes coincide with that of the people, but if they conflict - look out!

It wasn't a protest and there weren't any protestors* it was a vigil.

I think the distinction is pertinent to discussion of the police response.

*One dickhead with a Palestinian flag and a poster about Assange who tries to hijack every street event in London turned up and was apparently told to F off by everyone else.

In the early hours of Sunday, the Met’s Assistant Commissioner Helen Ball said police were put into a position “where enforcement action was necessary”, because of “the overriding need to protect people’s safety.”

Unbelievably the Met response (by a woman!) seems to boil down to "I didn't want to do this, It's your fault that I had hurt you"

Correct, duly noted.

The cops dealt with this vigil in this way because it was an easy target that they could overpower. Ironic as it was a vigil against male violence perpetrated by a male policeman.
They didn’t deal with the football supporters in the same way because the threat of male violence would be aimed against them. Again, ironic.

On top of what’s already been mentioned, I fail to see how that kind of response addresses the Covid risk. The gathering will last longer than if they’d stood back and let the vigil run its course, and all the close up verbal and physical interactions put everyone involved at increased risk of transmission. That response doesn’t even achieve it’s supposed objective of increasing public safety in terms of Covid.

Could that be relevant to the Police response - that it was a Police officer's (illegal) actions that were being highlighted?

Could that be relevant to the Police response – that it was a Police officer’s (illegal) actions that were being highlighted?

I don’t think so. While this is not about how “the Met” feels, there will be more negative feeling towards him than other similar perpetrators because of the betrayal his colleagues will feel. They will be gunning for him (in a professional way).

I’m sure you’re right about the Met feeling nothing but disgust for their colleague. He killed a white woman. If he’d killed a black person, the ranks would close. It pains me to complain about the police like this, it’s a tough job that is mostly done well and with sympathy but the culture needs to change.

It’s taken me a while to realise (I’m a slow learner) the cops aren’t on our side…

Speaking as a white, educated, heterosexual middle aged, middle class chap - I can quite confidently state that the most dishonest, self serving and conniving people* I have met were serving police officers. It's a system rotten to it's core.

* I do know one upstanding officer who I would trust implicitly, so appreciate not all are bad. Exception proves the rule an all that.

The met do have something of a reputation for "looking after their own" though, obviously in this case that can't be done, as he's been charged and due process will take it's course.

But I do wonder if his behaviour will turn out to be symptomatic of a wider problem within the met, kind of like Stephen Lawrence and racism.

If he’d killed a black person, the ranks would close.

In the same circumstances?

So let me get this right, the Met’s response to a vigil about violence against women was to get themselves on the news pictured* being violent to women?

I don’t really know how to respond to the a) getting the response wrong and b) getting their image wrong. Wrong in both content and presentation.

I don’t know enough to place blame on an individual, or even if there is an individual to blame, but how could anyone senior thing that was a good idea?

* The BBC, a very pro-establishment organisation, is carrying pictures of police pinning women to the ground.

In the same circumstances?

Come on, the surprising thing in the case of the poor lass killed on her way home wasn't the fact it was at the hands at a serving police officer. It is that it wasn't swept under the carpet and "dealt with internally"

"In the same circumstances?"

Hard to say what the general response would have been. Bearing in mind that the population at large contains a goodly proportion of nasty racists, (see HMG and the Home Office), hardly surprising if the police contain a similar proportion.

If he’d killed a black person, the ranks would close.

In the same circumstances?

No, I grant you not even the Met could cover this one up. You take my point though.

You take my point though.

Yes.

The whole week has felt overwhelming and this is the final straw. How can I feel the police are there to protect me? It has certainly made me even more empathetic to the BLM movement

My wife got some of these types of comments from her white friends.

It pissed her off - in a “oh now you get it when white blondes are being dragged off from protests by the MET” kind of way.

I completely agree that Police should have engaged and maybe just agreed that for one evening if everyone wore masks that they would keep their distance and let it happen.

Wading in and separating everyone clearly increased the risk of disease transmission as it resulted in people breathing heavily, grappling etc, not to mention how terrible it looks for the Met.

Having said that, would have made sense for the organisers to at least try to make allowances for the current Covid rules rather than ignoring them completely. Plenty of others have had to make huge sacrifices like not attending funerals, not being able to see family members etc.