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Having said that, would have made sense for the organisers to at least try to make allowances for the current Covid rules rather than ignoring them completely
They did. They cancelled it, after exhausting legal channels etc (you might recall they unsuccessfully went to the High Court on Friday).
However, everyone recognised that this was unlikely to stop some people turning up there anyway, which is what happened.
Cressida Dick has been a pretty even handed and apolitical head of the Met and as such, I imagine may well be on the Poison Prittster's hit list.
What money on Patel having given an arm's length (probably via minions) 'Becket Approval' to go in hard - and engineer an impossible situation for the Met commander?
Made all the more impossible because the man being charged is/was a copper...
What money on Patel having given an arm’s length (probably via minions) ‘Becket Approval’ to go in hard – and engineer an impossible situation for the Met commander?
High
As I said above I am sure I saw a bit on the Guardian that said the Met had been told to break the protest up.
I doubt Patel is using this as leverage to get rid of Dick but instead is simply incompetent and now ass covering
Two things:
However, everyone recognised that this was unlikely to stop some people turning up there anyway, which is what happened.
The original organisers called it off (converted to the candle vigil). Another group (Sisters Uncut) were the ones that said they were still going to attend in person; might be dancing on the head of a pin here but it was not an absolutely impromptu gathering.
I support absolutely the cause; I'm a little conflicted by Sisters Uncut and their role in this.
Secondly. Re the person accused of this. Innocent until proven guilty please, no matter what the appearance and evidence. That's how we roll in the UK. Some are building a gallows with indecent haste.
they are employed by the State to protect the State, and to follow its orders.
This is not actually what their job is, though it may seem that way.
https://twitter.com/tabascokid/status/1370895807713533953
The group in question was a group of Lock down Protesters according the photographer,
The libertarian approach is well covered by David Allen Green here. The somethingion is that it happened like that because The Met and its commander think that they can get away with it. If that had been a large gathering of blokes who could handle themselves things would have been all together more hands off.
I find myself agree with that summary Sandwich.
One is minded of the lack of police reaction when the facists marched one week after the BLM protest last year - them boys were spoiling for a kick-up but the Met did not oblige. That I don't mind, but the contrast with last night is stark.
Yup.
They probably view last nights protestors as being the same types of leftists that turn up to BLM marches. Stinks of protecting white-male conservative society.
But I tend to see the worst in people, so I guess it could be because they were too chicken to try and arrest the fascists.
I’m sorry about that, not least as a fellow Durham graduate (fair bit older mind)
Same here.... and I went to Cuth's as well....
😟
Having said that, would have made sense for the organisers to at least try to make allowances for the current Covid rules rather than ignoring them completely.
Having said that, would have made sense for you to at least try to look into the actions of the organisers regarding Covid before commenting and ignoring them completely.
EVERYONE needs to keep a close eye on the Crime, Police, Sentencing and Courts Bill passing through Parliament from today.
The debate about violence against women is very relevant here,under the Tories proposals a protester who defaces the Winston Churchill statue will likely get a tougher sentence than someone who sexually assaults a woman...
^^^^
That was my initial thought too when I heard some bits about what would be in it. Shutting down protests that could come from a large section of society (let's put a figure of roughly 48% on it) is something that would greatly interest this current rabble in charge.
I have no problem with proportionate and effective policing. It is the ones pulling the strings we need to be aware of. Several high up figures (Cummings, Jenrick to name two) have already shown that they consider themselves above the law.
Don't forget too, that pretty much all the senior ministers in this 'government' are where they are on the basis of a lie. At some point they are going to be facing big protests about the mysterious slowness of the UK's recovery from covid.
One is minded of the lack of police reaction when the facists marched one week after the BLM protest last year – them boys were spoiling for a kick-up but the Met did not oblige. That I don’t mind, but the contrast with last night is stark.
Yeah that crossed my mind as well.
Last summer the police stood back whilst BLM protestors vandalised war memorials in London - yet the same force felt it was appropriate to handcuff women face down for breaking social distancing rules.
The police are in an impossible situation. If they read the room, appreciate the public mood and potentially poor optics from intervention and decide to allow, normally permissible, peaceful protest to assemble and run during the pandemic, they get criticised for not intervening in an unlawful gathering. This gives tacit approval for said gathering and encourages a 'Cummings Effect' where other protesters / football fans etc, regardless of public support for their cause, feel that they too can do whatever they like; 'cos that other lot did it / plod doesn't GAF / won't intervene. End result is more gatherings and an elevated risk of public transmission / illness / death etc etc.
Read the room differently, respect that a democratically elected parliament passed emergency legislation to prohibit gatherings during a pandemic and that the police are duty bound to uphold said law, by force if necessary, to save lives. Ban events, tell people to go home. If they do gather and, despite repeated warnings, still don't comply, use force, leading to lots of interaction, higher risk of protestor / officer injury, viral transmission, emergency services personnel & protestors self isolating, getting ill / dead, court backlogs worsened / police vehicles unavailable / cells beyond capacity / call delays etc etc.
The police will always be wrong in someone's eyes. Police Scotland and the Met took different approaches and both were heavily criticised. Both were right and both were wrong, all depending on interpretation. What does stink is the gross inconsistency, namely the easy ride 'statue protectors' and football fans were given in comparison to Clapham women, nurses, BLM and environmental protestors. Either everyone is allowed to gather and let off steam within 'normal' parameters, or everyone is told to stay home, stay legal, or suffer the full force of the emergency legislation. Which is it?
This was not an impossible situation for the police. One of their colleagues had just kidnapped and murdered a woman and so other women had gathered to pay their respects and show their frustration at continuing harassment and threatening behaviour by men. The police could had have made sure there were far more women officers present and just made continually advised those present to maintain social distancing. Everyone would have been home by midnight and Cressida Dick would still be on track to an unelected peerage in the House of Lords.
No one is denying the sensitivity of the situation. The gathering was illegal, that automatically makes it impossible to police to the satisfaction of everyone. Either the police condone said lawbreaking or are seen as heavy handed when enforcing the law. There simply isn't a 'right' answer.
Good luck recalling hundreds of female officers to duty. Do you want them to be public order trained and equipped, maybe some tactical advisers, or will any old female officer do?
Do the professional agitators who always hijack every protest plan on playing nice and being home for midnight? What about next week's protest? Is that now permitted to go ahead because you feel this one should have? It just ain't that simple.
One of their colleagues had just kidnapped and murdered a woman
Allegedly.
Innocent until proven guilty.
No one is denying the sensitivity of the situation. The gathering was illegal, that automatically makes it impossible to police to the satisfaction of everyone
I don't think the legality was that clear-cut - certainly there were plenty of other vigils that notably did not have a heavy-handed police response.
Allegedly.
Innocent until proven guilty.
Yes, of course - but in custody and charged, the very least it seems tactless for the Met to be so heavy-handed whilst one of their own is chief suspect.
Saturday's vigil was hijacked and turned into a protest by a group called Sisters Uncut.
Last year (in Manchester) they instigated a counter-protest (which seemed to comprise mostly men) against a group of women protesting about rape culture. Many of the women at the anti rape culture demo were victims of rape. Representatives from Trafford Rape Crisis were also there. Sisters Uncut justified their behaviour because the some of the organisers were known 'TERFS'.
Sunday's protest, again organised by Sisters Uncut was about women they allege were 'killed by the state'. Two of these 'women' are male rapists who brutalised children.
Number 91 in the list is Jade Eatough
https://www.lancs.live/news/local-news/violent-beast-jailed-for-life-1267831
Number 95 is Nicola Cope
https://web.archive.org/web/20150531080143/http://www.tamworthherald.co.uk/Sex-change-man-abused-young-girls-jailed-16-years/story-26584788-detail/story.html
A couple of years ago Sisters Uncut supported Tara Wolf who was found guilty of assaulting Maria McLachlan's at Speakers corner.
At a meeting organised by @Womans_Place_UK, Sisters Uncut stood outside bashing pots and pans drowning out the voices of survivors of abuse and violence. They were invited to join the packed meeting to present their view but declined.
But none of you want to hear any of this do you.
actually go back earlier in the thread and I did say I was concerned by the SU group's involvement in saying the vigil would still go ahead after the initial organisers said it had been changed to the candle vigil.
But you won't want to hear that will you.
The gathering was illegal
I understood the judge had declined to rule on that.
encourages a ‘Cummings Effect’
Is that an effect where a police force refuses to investigate allegations into the activities of a government advisor?
You’re right, it’s far too difficult to do policing sensitively in those circumstances. There’s no way the police could have done anything different. There’s no way the police should apologise.
Saturday’s vigil was hijacked and turned into a protest by a group called Sisters Uncut.
https://twitter.com/munro_nell/status/1371563884407062535?s=20
Aren't actors allowed to attend a vigil?
Not sure that proves anything...
Aren’t actors allowed to attend a vigil?
Not sure that proves anything…
It doesn't but it wasn't a 'vigil'.
Sisters Uncut gave instructions to bring 'your rage', and make sure you don't bring ID etc etc. They riled up the crowd, giving speeches that could jeopardise the court case. They've made Sarah Everard's murder all about them.
They're now demanding money from the crowdfunder organised by Reclaim The Streets to pay any fines etc at the money was for 'the movement'.
The crowdfunder for Reclaim The Streets has raised a phenomenal amount of money, when questioned on Twitter about where it would be going the organisers got very defensive and started getting abusive. They have made it very clear that it will only go to organisation they deem to be sufficiently 'inclusive', i.e. they deem any women's refuge/rape shelter that is strictly women only as allowed by law (Equality act 2010) will not get a penny.
FFS Kelvin, I gave examples of them (SU) aggressively harassing women at multiple events (including an anti rape culture demo). If that doesn't make you question the narrative I don't know what will.
For those of you who have decided (based on a few posts) that I'm some kind of bigot ask yourselves this question, what's more likely: that a load of life-long left-leaning LGBT-supporting (including L+B) women have inexplicably and uncharacteristically all suddenly become bigots or that you might be missing something here?
I don’t think the legality was that clear-cut – certainly there were plenty of other vigils that notably did not have a heavy-handed police response.
I can only speak for local coverage of the Nottingham vigil, but much smaller numbers and all immaculately socially distanced, so no need for a Police involvement. Very different from the (edited) footage I've seen from London.
I agree that the Police would have also got criticised for taking no action. Unless there was something more serious going on as rainper suggests, then that would probably have been the better thing to be guilty of though.
As I suspected - Patel did lean on the police to stop the gathering
On Friday as the police and the vigil’s organisers were heading to court over the legality of such an event, a message was sent to all police chiefs making Patel’s position clear. She wanted them to stop people gathering at vigils. She also promised she would personally urge people not to gather – but she never did.
No surprise there.
Rainper only talks about one subject on this forum.
Oh you weren't joking. Literally only one subject. Is this astroturfing or someone's alt transphobic account?
I pass no judgement or opinion... I just felt that anyone engaging with them should be aware of the single mindedness of their posts on here before they do so. You can look at their response to me just pointing out their posting history to see what I mean.
Is this astroturfing?
What does that mean?
astroturfing is a fake grassroots campaign
b'dum tish !
As I suspected – Patel did lean on the police to stop the gathering
Becket Approval followed by throwing an (in my opinion) excellent and even-handed Head of the Met under the bus.
Patel is a vile creature. From what I have heard of Cressida Dick, Priti Nasty might (hopefully) be making a big mistake if she presses ahead with a witch hunt. Hope so.