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Not sure I would welcome an ambulance turning up to help me by assaulting the paramedic?
The patient had previously verbally abused members of the ambulance crew, and also urinated in the ambulance, the LAS said
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-london-67560689
My wife is a consultant therapy radiographer on a cancer ward, she had to "red card" a patient recently for abuse and getting physical with staff and refuse to treat her until she could control herself ...she has said that the instances of abuse are really on the rise.
During COVID lockdowns, they had abuse, things thrown at them in car park, the air ambulance pelted with stones and another hospital nearby had razor blades placed under COVID vaccination posters.
Public are absolutely amazing to work with and absolute nightmare.
Scum like that guy are just horrible individuals. When I see the footage earlier this am the rage was pretty high. One of my current roles is to support staff when things like this happen, it’s awful having to listen to it never mind what they went through.
"Not sure I would welcome an ambulance turning up to help me by assaulting the paramedic?"
You probably aren't drunk / high / mentally unstable though are you? Urinating in the ambulance suggests the first at least.
^^^ Is what I was just about to say.
Anyone know why the ambulance was called in the first place? And upon arrival, if the casualty is obviously a threat to them are the medics allowed to say no and leave, or do they ask for help?
In a previous job which involved transporting prisoners to and from courts and to various appointments outside the jail I had a colleague who was a former bus driver. He said he had more hassle from the public drivng his bus than dealing with convicted murderers. Prisoners having the big plus that they were usually sober and not high on drugs.
You probably aren’t drunk / high / mentally unstable though are you? Urinating in the ambulance suggests the first at least.
Double checks OPs identity.....as you were.
You probably aren’t drunk / high / mentally unstable though are you? Urinating in the ambulance suggests the first at least.
The first 2 aren't an excuse. I'm guessing the third one wasn't relevant as he was convicted.
This video has been made public as part of a campaign due to the large increase in abuse staff are having to endure. Shop workers are seeing the same uptick.
No doubt the reasons behind this rise in abuse is complex but it certainly should not be ignored.
Double checks OPs identity…..as you were.
I'm usually only one of those three on any given day. 😉
I always wondered what miracle ingredient NHS staff had in their tea.
The first 2 aren’t an excuse. I’m guessing the third one wasn’t relevant as he was convicted.
But the third one might be an explanation for the first two. They often go hand in hand.
It says there have been 38 successful prosecutions for abuse against ambulance crews in the past year.
Obviously that is just for London but it sounds lower than I might have guessed, assuming that not only the most serious cases are pursed. Hopefully the reason it isn't higher is not because of difficulty in securing convictions.
The money invested in cameras is clearly a very worthwhile investment.
Obviously that is just for London but it sounds lower than I might have guessed, assuming that not only the most serious cases are pursed. Hopefully the reason it isn’t higher is not because of difficulty in securing convictions.
Pretty much that and sometimes they get away with it as their solicitor wins them “I was drunk I can’t recall it and I’m sorry.”
But the third one might be an explanation for the first two. They often go hand in hand.
Absolutely but it's undeniable that most people get drunk as a recreational choice. Even then most will end up home with no incident and just a thumping headache the next day.
Unfortunately it only takes a tiny minority of the thousands out drinking every night to get violent and they, or those they impact, need the help of paramedics that are already pushed to breaking.
No doubt the reasons behind this rise in abuse is complex but it certainly should not be ignored.
I think it all starts in their early years,they get confused over cutlery operation,it's a downhill spiral from there.
Daughter works evening job / holiday job in the supermarket for the better off, in a nice Surrey market town, and has to deal with appalling people regularly.
I'd bet these customers are not drunk / high / mentally ill - they're just over entitled ****s who think they can treat others like their bitches.
Unlikely to compare with the work experiences of London paramedics, I would have thought.
I regularly go to supermarkets, I can't remember the last time I witnessed an altercation.
I was at a house party a few months ago hosted by my mate who is a paramedic. At one point I ended up sitting at the kitchen table with 5 of their colleagues while they talked about the last few days at work. It sounded like a war zone.
My job is a joke compared to what they have to deal with.
I'm not so sure, but I'm making the point that you can't lay the blame on the drunk / high / mentally ill. Some people are just *****
I'd also observe that against the 38 prosecutions (yes, that is just successful prosecutions so for serious cases, etc., and London only) the BRC is reporting 400 incidents against shop workers.
Oh, sorry, that's 38 per year for prosecutions against ambulance crews, but 400 incidents PER DAY against shop workers.
[edit] 32 incidents of abuse or assault on Ambulance crews per day
https://aace.org.uk/vaa/#:~:text=Every%20day%20during%20the%202020,over%20the%20last%20five%20years.
Oh, sorry, that’s 38 per year for prosecutions against ambulance crews
Is that figure for London or nationally?
It's a LAS report so assume that's London only.
The 32/d incidents of assault / abuse is i believe a national figure and more directly comparable to the 400/d of retail workers.
Again, it was not meant to be a 'Oh do pipe down, shop workers have it worse' statement or v/v, and I'm sure there is >>10x the number of shop workers than ambulance staff, so the potential / likelihood is I'm sure higher ("I regularly go to supermarkets, I can’t remember the last time I witnessed an altercation")
It's making the point that you can't just say it's drunk / drugged / mentally ill people. It's just people being *****
It’s making the point that you can’t just say it’s drunk / drugged / mentally ill people. It’s just people being *****
There is obviously an element of arseholes being arseholes.
However, we live in a ridiculously unequal society with real poverty hidden in plain site, add to that cost of living squeeze, a benefit system designed to punish those in need, virtually zero mental health support services etc etc
And then we wonder why lots of people can't seem to cope with everyday life....
It's almost as if we are engineering society to not be able to function properly.
It’s a LAS report so assume that’s London only.
Wow, I’m surprised the number is that high.
Of all the people I know who work for them, I can’t think of a single one who’s been assaulted and had it followed up by police action or prosecution.
Having spent the last year or two interacting with multiple paramedics and ward staff I've seen first hand what they have to put up with. I sort of knew anyway as I've had friends who work in those roles tell me the horror stories but it was still a shock seeing them in real time. Saw patients verbally abuse staff, punch them, throw objects at them and one time a whole family gang up on a doctor for an unknown reason. Definitely a job I could not do. I made a point of always being friendly to everyone I interacted with and each ward team got a hand delivered box of choccies and a profound Thank You afterwards too.
One 'plus' out of this though is that those of us that occasionally ride our bikes and fall off (especially at BPW and end up in Prince Charles Hospital) tend to get preferential treatment as we almost always are apologetic, do exactly as we're told and very grateful for the help. The staff there on handover at the start of a shift apparently try and get the fallen riders to look after as they're pretty much guaranteed a good shift!
Daughter works evening job / holiday job in the supermarket for the better off, in a nice Surrey market town, and has to deal with appalling people regularly.
I’d bet these customers are not drunk / high / mentally ill – they’re just over entitled **** who think they can treat others like their bitches.
I've always said that everyone should have to do a few weeks of Work Experience in a regular shop/bar/food place (not a posh one, something like Tesco/Wetherspoons/McDonald's), that would put a stop to a lot of this behaviour. When people know what it's like to do a job interacting with the public they then treat people doing that job with much more respect.
The 32/d incidents of assault / abuse is i believe a national figure and more directly comparable to the 400/d of retail workers.
I don't think it is comparable in any way. For a start a lot more people go inside a supermarket per day than go inside an ambulance.
Yes some people are self-entitled arseholes, but this story is specifically about paramedics and how CCTV fitted to all London ambulances is helping to secure convictions.
I urinated in the back of an ambulance
that was mid 2022, but in a wee bottle; i wasn't drunk, and had been flat out on the tarmac for 90 minutes while being assessed after being ****ted by some c*nt in a mini
Then spent 24 hours in a very busy A&E.
What astonished me was in all of that, the paramedics (3 of them on site and two in the ambulance) and the staff in A&E were so cheerful, tolerant, friendly and caring despite the chaos/overlaod they seemed to be working in.
But ultimately the challenge is underinvestment due to austerity - A&E was full of old people who had no care system to look after them, confused alzheimer patients with no understanding where they were, alkies, self-medicating and obviously frequent flyers, turning up for a lie down and some TLC, druggies etc.
Most of them who shouldn't have been in A&E, but becuase the system in the UK is failing us (thanks 13 years of Tories) the ambulance service and police service and A&E are the safety net trying to keep people safe and they are no longer equiped to do that job.
I think it all starts in their early years,they get confused over cutlery operation,it’s a downhill spiral from there.
That would explain why fork crime is on the rise.
Tines are hard I suppose.
It's the candles you need to worry about
As for susepic's post,
Having had the misfortune to spend some time in hospital recently, I never saw any violence personally but the rest of it is spot on. The whole "patients on trolleys in corridors" thing we saw on TV during Covid hasn't gone away, it's the new normal. There's numbers down the walls. They can't move patients out of A&E because there's no corridor space left, let alone a ward or a bed. It's absolutely horrendous and it's going to cost lives.
<It’s absolutely horrendous and it’s costing lives.>
FTFY Cougar - but spot on
"Long waits in A&E departments may have caused around 30,000 ‘excess deaths’ last year, according to new estimates."
The public are arseholes. I should know, I'm one of them.
I am not sure I would trust the "38 prosecutions for assaults on paramedics" figure (at least, not to say there were only 38 in London). Squeezing data out of the criminal justice system is a nightmare.
sometimes they get away with it as their solicitor wins them “I was drunk I can’t recall it and I’m sorry.”
No.
I don’t think it is comparable in any way.
Directly comparable means you can compare them directly. Without needing to extrapolate for how many convictions equate to however many incidents, or how a London number extrapolates to a national one. You can directly compare the two because they are exactly the same unit - incidents per day on a national basis. There's order of magnitude 10x more.
For a start a lot more people go inside a supermarket per day than go inside an ambulance.
I know. Or as I put it there are >>10x (many more than 10x the number of retail workers)
Yes some people are self-entitled arseholes, but this story is specifically about paramedics and how CCTV fitted to all London ambulances is helping to secure convictions.
And I started the comparison (and god knows I wish I hadn't) to point out that you can't assume that the issue is down to drink and drugs and mental illness, and it isn't only emergency workers that get treated badly by the public.
Or, as the thread title says:
dealing-with-the-public-a-thankless-task-on-occasion
And with that I'm out.
I'm currently doing some work with an ED, I've also shadowed a few shifts to understand their environment.
This has included some of the AS staff being verbally and physically assaulted. There was one tech in to be treated for wounds sustained from a 'patient'; the cops are pretty proactive and present but it still happens and leaves staff in a bit of a state.
The stories they've retold and the things I've witnessed have been eye-raising and this is coming from someone who is used to some of the more extreme ends of aggression and violence.
It calls a lot of inherently good people to question their purpose, and on some occasions to walk away, which is the biggest tragedy.
It's why I could never do business in a customer facing role, running a shop, pub, whatever, I'd end up barring probably 50% of customers and punching propably 10% of them. I'd be out of business in a week.
Sad sign of the times, no one should have to put up with rudeness, nevermind flat out abuse.
mattyfez
Full Member
It’s why I could never do business in a customer facing role,
The thing is, most people are genuinely lovely to deal with. I worked in retail for a long time in my 20's and some of the customers almost became friends. Just occasionally though... Jesus. It takes just one nasty piece of work to spoil a whole week in the job.
One bloke pulled a screwdriver on me and threatened to stab me, another one drove a car at me in the carpark. These were both after catching them stealing. It's always been there but I think it's far more widespread now. It was pretty rare back then, not now.
A tiny little co-op near me had a guy in threatening a young girl there with an axe. She never went back into that place after that and I dont blame her. They have a bouncer (well, security) at the door sometimes. This is a co-op in a smallish village for goodness sakes.
A tiny little co-op near me had a guy in threatening a young girl there with an axe. She never went back into that place after that and I dont blame her. They have a bouncer (well, security) at the door sometimes. This is a co-op in a smallish village for goodness sakes.
I don't work in Leeds any more, but the McDonalds in the city center had bouncers on the door after a certain time in the evening.
I mean... what...the...
I don’t work in Leeds any more, but the McDonalds in the city center had bouncers on the door after a certain time in the evening.
I mean… what…the…
That's pretty common down this way in my little bit of Kent unfortunately. I suspect many big town Maccy's have them now?
Securityguards in my local sainsburys and Aldi
It’s why I could never do business in a customer facing role, running a shop, pub, whatever, I’d end up barring probably 50% of customers and punching propably 10% of them. I’d be out of business in a week.
I often think that the lives of service people would be improved immeasurably if they had a quota of customers that they were allowed to just tell to **** the **** off. It doesn't have to be high, one a week would do.
As regular readers will know, I've worked in a tech support helpdesk dealing with the general public. Less well known perhaps is I had a student job in a bowling alley for a year, dealing face-to-face with the great unwashed. From both of these experiences I've learned that as poopscoop says, most people are lovely. Some have had a bad experience and are understandably vexed. And some are simply just c**ts.