[Closed] Criminal police

And you did nothing wrong as a lad?

........Shouldn't they be made to leave the force?

If they were committed while serving in the force, yes.

But otherwise, no.

Simple.

Doing something wrong as a lad is far from what some of theses people have done. In what world does having robbed or burgled someone make you suitable to uphold the law?

I'm talking about what is right, not what the rules say.

OP: so you believe:

No one is capable of rehabilitation?

Existing punishments for crimes are not enough?

Criminals should get further arbitrary punishments like never being allowed to serve in the force, except you've not thought this out at all, it only occurs to you when you are outraged over your Daily Fail?

Thank **** you're not (and never will be) a politician.

Yeah robbery is a bit more than a mistake as a lad! Although I support employing some skilled burglars to assist the police with techniques etc.

OP- If your not willing to accept that people can change, then any further discussion on the subject is pointless.

In what world does having robbed or burgled someone make you suitable to uphold the law?

In a world that believes in rehabilitation. IMO someone who has turned their life around would potentially have a far greater enthusiasm and understanding of the requirements of the job than some middle class cosseted snob who believes they are superior to the General public.

Of course as above, crimes committed while in the force should bring about dismissal, but even then there is possible room for manoeuvre.

Fishing without a license, failure to return library book blah blah.
Typical, something out of nowt reporting

duntstick, duntmatter - how about duntcare?

I'd prefer duntbovver 😛

I know it's not in the OP's spirit of the thread, but here's a bit of background info for perspective:

from OP's Indy article:

The Metropolitan Police, Britain's largest force, came out on top with 356 officers and 41 PCSOs with convictions

from wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Police_Service

At the end of October 2011, the MPS employed 48,661 (full-time) personnel...

So < 1%....and the crimes are:

Most of the convictions are for [b]traffic offences such as speeding and drink-driving, but the records also include an officer in South Yorkshire was convicted of [u]fishing without a licence[/u] (sic)[/b].

Home Office guidelines issued in 2003 say police officers should have "proven integrity" because they are vulnerable to pressure from criminals to reveal information. The guidance says forces should reject potential recruits with convictions for serious offences – including causing bodily harm, burglary, dangerous driving and supplying drugs – unless there are "exceptionally compelling circumstances".

Seems reasonable to me...who was it said "a civilisation/society should be judged on how it treats its criminals"?

fishing without a licence

That should be a treasonable offence! 😆

If the offences are minor as some have pointed out, then its a non-story so stop foaming at the mouth. If, however they're serious then damn right they shouldn't be upholding a law that they themselves flout.

cynic-al
Thank **** you're not (and never will be) a politician.

nealglover
If your not willing to accept that people can change, then any further discussion on the subject is pointless.

would either of you have a problem with time served paedophiles becoming primary school teachers?

would either of you have a problem with time served paedophiles becoming primary school teachers?

Thank god somebody's thinking of the children!

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16380862 ]Thefts from police stations[/url]

Thefts in the past five years include handcuffs, uniforms, speed guns, dogs, riot shields, and even patrol cars.

The police are criminals, end of story 8)

phil.w - Member
would either of you have a problem with time served paedophiles becoming primary school teachers?

🙄

Of course - 1. it's a serious crime and 2. (as I am sure you know) it's virtually impossible to be rehabilitated from peadophilia.

PLEASE ENGAGE BRAIN BEFORE POSTING.

would either of you have a problem with time served paedophiles becoming primary school teachers?

If you can explain a direct comparison between crimes such as fishing without a license, speeding, theft etc.

And an incurable Mental Disorder such as Peadophilia.

I'd be happy to answer whatever is left of your question.

PLEASE ENGAGE BRAIN BEFORE POSTING.

🙂 oh ok,

Rehabilitation is about the individual and not the seriousness of the crime. So to suggest that all Police that have criminal records have been rehabilitated is as ridiculous a position as it is to say they should all be kicked out.

And an incurable Mental Disorder such as Peadophilia.

[img] [/img]

As long as the judicial system is unjust and a mechanism of control for the rich and powerful, all police officers will continue to be criminals.

As I have said and will continue to say, they police are simply thugs who work for the government 💡

mmm, peas...

PLEASE EN[s]G[/s]RAGE BRAIN BEFORE POSTING.

Kaesae - evidence for what you are saying?

phil.w - Member
to suggest that all Police that have criminal records have been rehabilitated is as ridiculous a position as it is to say they should all be kicked out.

Who suggested that?

Otherwise, I am not sure what point, if any, you are trying to make.

[i]I am not sure what point, if any, you are trying to make[/i]

Welcome to the forum 🙂

I'd love to visit kaesaeworld for a day.

thegreatape - Member
I'd love to visit kaesaeworld for a day.

I imagine it's a very welcoming place, until you ask to leave...

Good point. I'll stay away.

From the "Welcome Pack" at Kaeseaworld :

.
[img] [/img]

I reckon an equivilent 'crime' is the inability to read past a headline...

[i]Most of the convictions are for traffic offences such as speeding and drink-driving, but the records also include an officer in South Yorkshire was convicted of fishing without a licence. [/i]

What about discharged bankrupts not being allowed to join the police?

What about discharged bankrupts not being allowed to join the police?

I would say if they have shown sensible management of their finances since they should be allowed to join. These sort of rules are used to much too exclude people from all kinds of Public jobs.

I'm not sure how bankruptcy alone should relate to any profession/position other than directorships and financial stuff - even then, folk can change.

Will the banks face charges or be fined for the billions of pounds they have stolen from the most vulnerable individuals in society ❓

If not then how can we call the judicial system or it respresentatives just ❓

It is one thing to point the finger and say those individuals are criminals, however what about the individuals that cause the circumstances that lead others to commit crime ❓

As anyone else that has belongings and assets I am against crime, but I have more contempt for those that seek power and control than I do for those who commit crime due to ignorance or necessity.

fishing without a licence

He made a rod for his own back.

neal glover, why does it not surprise me that you know exactly how to make a tin foil hat ❓

kaesae - Member
NONSENSE

FTFY

Once again, STWers miss the point of what the OP is actually saying, and go on to only present facts to support their own argument/agendae....

Let's have a proper look shall we?

Right:

I'm astonished by this. Burglary, robbery..! Shouldn't they be made to leave the force?

I'm pretty sure the OP is asking whether officers committing offences of this severity should be made to leave the force, not so much the ones done for driving or fishing offences.

Also in the list, which some of you have conveniently omitted, are offences such as sexual assault, domestic violence, supplying drugs, perverting the course of justice and other pretty bad stuff.

I fully believe in the rehabilitation of offenders, as far as is possible and beneficial to society, but to know that there are those convicted of such crimes still serving as police officers is shocking.

It is an honour and a privilege to serve society and the Law in such a manner. Those charged with such responsibility have a duty to be exemplary in their behaviour. Otherwise, how and why should anyone respect the police and subsequently the Law?

TBH, there are probably thousands of serving coppers who are guilty of myriad serious crimes, who will never face Justice, such as the murderers of Jean Charles deMenezes, etc. And God alone knows what other nastiness. There are serving police officers who make the Summer Rioters and Looters look like fine upstanding citizens. There are some true scum within the police force.

And if we can't even weed out the ones we know about, what chance do we have of dealing with all the others?

That uniform and badge should mean something. Too bad it's being tarnished and sullied by those who have no respect for it.

Thugs and criminals I tells ya!

kaesae - Member
neal glover, why does it not surprise me that you know exactly how to make a tin foil hat

eeeeerm ....... because because you know I used google image search to take the piss out of you ?

do I win a prize ?

you can use one of the many other Licensed UK Mail Carriers if you dont want to send it via Royal Mail

it not like they have a monopoply is it ?

It's a pity the don't have monopoly, they might be a bit better with money and resources if they did!

It's a pity the don't have monopoly

Now thats strange...

because someone with the same username as you has been banging on about how [b]the Royal Mail has a Monopoly[/b] on here for the last couple of weeks, despite being told it was bollx.

weird eh ?

*cracks knuckles*

Elfinsafety - Member
Once again, STWers miss the point of what the OP is actually saying, and go on to only present facts to support their own argument/agendae....

You've posted up about how you think many Police aren't doing their jobs properly, conviction or not...which is irrelevant to the OP.

[img] [/img]

George, as far as I know, the reasoning behind the bankruptcy rule was that anyone who was or was close to being bankrupt could be more susceptible to bribery/corruption. I think the rules may have changed though, and bankruptcy does not now automatically mean dismissal.

No it's not. The OP is on about crime ina Babylon, and how it is shocking that known criminals convicted of serious crimes are allowed to work as police officers (I always though conviction for a criminal offence meant instant dismissal from the police, obviously I'm wrong).

You and others started bleating on about fishing licences and stuff.

I don't have a problem with someone being done for speeding or not having a fishing licence; I do have a problem with a robber or sex offender being in police uniform. We're not talking about relatively minor crimes being committed in someone's misspent youth, we're talking about people who have comitted and bin convicted of crimes while serving as police officers, and being allowed to keep their jobs. That is massively hypocritical and undermines Law and Order.

So there.

I'd imagine there aren't that many out of the 900 odd who have actually bin convicted of serious stuff, but anyone who has should be expelled from the police force.

As for rehabilitation; well, I'm sorry, but if you've bin done for sexual assault and then try to give me a ticket for riding through a red light or something, then explain to me why I should respect your uniform? Fact is, I won't. Because you're a far worse criminal than I'll ever be.

You've chosen to thoroughly disrespect the uniform, institution and indeed the society you are meant to serve, and you are therefore unworthy of any respect yourself.

Calm down youth, I was only telling George about bankruptcy.

Calm down Babylon; I was talking to Cynic-Al... 😛

Well that's a change from your first post then is not it?

Elfinsafety - Member
I fully believe in the rehabilitation of offenders

...and...

As for rehabilitation; well, I'm sorry, but if you've bin done for sexual assault and then try to give me a ticket for riding through a red light or something, then explain to me why I should respect your uniform? Fact is, I won't. Because you're a far worse criminal than I'll ever be.

You've chosen to thoroughly disrespect the uniform, institution and indeed the society you are meant to serve, and you are therefore unworthy of any respect yourself.

But you said you believed in rehabilitation? What if the conviction was prior to working for teh Fuzz?

In any event, how would a sexual offence of an officer be relevant to the fact that you've broken the law? Any excuse to exculpate your behaviour. It's criminal or not as judged by [i]THE LAW[/i], not an individual.

cynic-al - Member

OP: so you believe:

No one is capable of rehabilitation?

Existing punishments for crimes are not enough?

No, I don't believe those things and there's no evidence that I do. Not sure where you got that from.

Thank **** you're not (and never will be) a politician.

^^ This is extraordinary! What fun!

I make no point about rehabilitation, but I am curious why some have enthusiastically listed minor offences when the point I was making was about violent crime and dishonesty offences.

Elfinsafety - Member

I'm pretty sure the OP is asking whether officers committing offences of this severity should be made to leave the force, not so much the ones done for driving or fishing offences.

Yes!

Some people who know what they are on about seem to understand the point..

Nick Hardwick, chair of the IPCC, said: "Dizaei behaved like a bully … The greatest threat to the reputation of the police service is criminals in uniform like Dizaei."

Gaon Hart of the CPS said: "The public entrust the police with considerable powers and with that comes considerable responsibility."

BTP say "The public is entitled to expect that BTP will recruit people that demonstrate the highest standards of professional conduct, honesty, and integrity"

Why do you think that might be?

duntmatter - Member
No, I don't believe those things and there's no evidence that I do. Not sure where you got that from.

Your OP implied that ex-cons should not be Police because they would not act properly in office of law enforcement (and therefore that they could not be rehabilitated) - to me this amounts to more punishment.

I make no point about rehabilitation, but I am curious why some have enthusiastically listed minor offences when the point I was making was about violent crime and dishonesty offences.

You refer to burglary and robbery (not "violent crime and dishonesty") - mid-level offences. The report itself states:

Most of the convictions are for traffic offences

Elfin, if you were convicted of robbery or sex pesting in the job, you'd be out of a job faster than you could blink

I'm sure the other filth on here will back me up on that one.

But you said you believed in rehabilitation? What if the conviction was prior to working for teh Fuzz?

As I understand it, a conviction for a crime as serious as sexual assault would automatically preclude you from joining the police anyway, which suggests that those in the police force who've committed such offences have done so whilst employed as an officer of the Law.

So, someone who has had such significant and wholesale disregard for the Law to commit such an offence whilst employed to uphold the Law is not a fit and proper person to hold such office.

It's criminal or not as judged by THE LAW, not an individual.

I don't believe someone who has committed a serious crime whilst employed as a police officer should ever have the honour and privilege of representing the Law, as such a thing undermines and makes a mockery of that Law.

Nah. Lead by example. Anything else is utterly hypocritical and undeserving of any respect.

cynic-al - Member

Your OP implied that ex-cons should not be Police because they would not act properly in office of law enforcement (and therefore that they could not be rehabilitated) - to me this amounts to more punishment.

The rehabilitation leap is entirely your own.

You refer to burglary and robbery (not "violent crime and dishonesty") - mid-level offences.

Theft, burglary and robbery are classed as dishonesty offences. A violent crime is a crime in which the offender uses or threatens to use violent force upon the victim. This entails crimes such as robbery.

Not sure what your quibble is with my phrasing.

WE'RE ALL DOOMED!!!

Fred...there's no evidence that any serving officer has committed a sexual assault...and I can't imagine, ap kato said, you'd not be dismissed for it, so your hypothetical example is a fantasy...but very useful for your purpose of dissing and fuzz.

OP I don't see how your op makes any sense without "my" rehabilitation leap, but if you need to win the point on pedantry then have it. I wasn't aware theft etc were designated crimes of dishonesty or violence (different up here).

Well the article states that '900 police officers have criminal records'. I took that to mean serving police officers, rather than [i]former[/i] police officers....

I'm just someone who believes that the police should be as exemplary as possible, and that they are way too flawed and must always be closely scrutinised and criticised whenever necessary.

WE'RE ALL DOOMED!!!

We are actually all doomed, this is actually true.