I'm pretty much with you there Mike. I wasn't arguing for the existence of the soup dragon or otherwise, just making the point that organised religion gets a rough ride. Sometimes unfairly in my view.
Sometime. But often not.
joolsburger - Member
Is it that time of the month again?
Yep, they've got religion, warfare AND royalty to argue about. And aren't they happy about it! 🙂
One thing's for sure, all the non-religious people always seem to get very angry and defensive about their precious atheism/agnosticism.Why not just brush it aside and ignore it if it's all just fairy tales and what-not?
I couldn't give a toss, frankly. People believe what they want to believe, so let them.
Unless it's that the moon landings were faked... 😆
who said atheists are always angry eh?Yep, they've got religion, warfare AND royalty to argue about. And aren't they happy about it!
CaptainFlashheart - Member
joolsburger - Member
Is it that time of the month again?
Yep, they've got religion, warfare AND royalty to argue about. And aren't they happy about it!
Y'know, we really missed your erudite contributions such as this in your brief moment of exile. 🙄
Strangley enough, I'm humble
Why is that?
I listened to the guy this morning, did not agree with most of what he said but he seemed a really nice chap. He sounded a better person than many I can think of.
Cougar ... Yes I believe in God but not in sky wizards, santa or the tooth fairy.
And we been here before... if you want to find God, go look for him.
There's a big building at the end of your street, you'll find the people in there will happily assist you in the general direction. But it's really up to you?
"why is that"
Because all those great feelings I mentioned earlier are so empowering that one could quite easily become a self obsessed know it all.
I've possible sounded like one in earlier posts, like I said I've alot to learn.
Just trying to give a different view
I struggle with long sentences (although I got about half way).
I work with a family of JWs. That's what they believe in. I'm not going to question it.
I believe in God but not in sky wizards
Ah, ok, so it's just the terminology you're objecting to? Ie, if your post had read,
do you really believe that I think there is a [s]sky wizard[/s] [b]god[/b] controlling it all .... come on really ??
... then the answer would be that yes, you do?
(I'm not trolling, I'm just trying to make sure I understand what you mean)
if you want to find God, go look for him.
Something omnipresent shouldn't be difficult to find.
There's a big building at the end of your street, you'll find the people in there will happily assist you in the general direction.
The [url= http://goo.gl/maps/jtUpD ]secondary school[/url]? Do I ask to speak to the science teachers or the RE teachers? Or the geographers? 🙂
The big building at the other end of the street is [url= http://goo.gl/maps/2gdfg ]a Church of England church[/url]. I'm having dinner with the Rector on Friday.
There's a big building at the end of your street, you'll find the people in there will happily assist you in the general direction.
None of these people and their forbears have, since the beginning of recorded time, been able to produce evidence of a god.
If you have different information, then your Nobel Prize awaits.
I've noticed that these threads are drawing less and less supporters of [s]superstition[/s] [b]faith[/b] to the argument than formerly. The few who do turn up, seem to quickly fade away.
Possibly because...
One thing's for sure, all the non-religious people always seem to get very angry and defensive about their precious atheism/agnosticism.
Ergo, there seems little point engaging with those of you with no FAITH as your erstwhile intellectual black and white responses, born from an irrational FEAR of the unknown, indicate an unshakeable closed mindedness that may well have a direct and proportional relationship with your sense of manliness/ego/pride (delete as appropriate following your own soul searching).
I for one, am looking forward to finding out the TRUTH as and when it is my time to do so. Until then I choose to have MY faith and therefore freely and willingly accept that others have theirs. Possibly including those who fear it.
how many times have we heard that from the neighbours on the news after some travesty?but he seemed a really nice chap
Only joking, I guess I'd consider believing in god as a bit of a character flaw, I have many of my own, I tend to be a bit talky and evangelical about bikes so I try to be careful about who I preach to, to prevent boring the arse off of people. These flaws are [i]normally[/i] minor things and don't make you a horrible person. Some of my best friends are christian.
Some of the religions are pretty easy going and like a social club which can have many virtues but it's a bit difficult to get away from the fact that saying you converse with god is pretty much the same as saying you converse with the salad drawer of your fridge, only the fact that religion is accepted by society differs between the two.
organised religion interfering in how a country runs is pretty bad tho and should be stopped.
*I've tried not to be abusive here, sorry if it comes across as me thinking religious people are a bit stupid, but hey if it makes you feel better you're going to heaven and I'm going to burn in hell so we'll call it quits.
I for one, am looking forward to finding out the TRUTH as and when it is my time to do so.
One imagines, on the balance of probabilities, that you'll be DISAPPOINTED.
there seems little point engaging with those of you with no FAITH as your erstwhile intellectual black and white responses, born from an irrational FEAR of the unknown, indicate an unshakeable closed mindedness that may well have a direct and proportional relationship with your sense of manliness/ego/pride
[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2010/sep/09/god-richard-dawkins-angry-atheist ]I would encourage "campaigning" atheists and skeptics to think about the tone they use to deliver their messages. It should be obvious that how we say things is often as important, if not more so, than what we say.[/url]
I would hope that I keep the the not-being-a-dick side of the line, but if I occasionally cross it it's unintentional.
Some of the religions are pretty easy going and like a social club but it's a bit difficult to get away from the fact that saying you converse with god is pretty much the same as saying you converse with the salad drawer of your fridge, only the fact that religion is accepted by society differs between the two.
There is pretty good evidence that whilst inanimate, the salad drawer does at least exist.
[i]on the balance of probabilities, that you'll be DISAPPOINTED. [/i]
see the thing is if this life is all that there is then he won't be disappointed 'cos he/his soul won't exist to be.
all us non-believers *may* be in for a nasty surprise, though.
It could be that the Atom that created the Universe is actually God, so God is an Atom!
I was concentrating on the conversing element 🙂There is pretty good evidence that whilst inanimate, the salad drawer does at least exist.
we can only lose is just one way of looking at it, another is that we have sunday mornings free for riding/hangover recovery,is that worth wagering against infinity in paradise?all us non-believers *may* be in for a nasty surprise, though.
slackalice - Memberthere seems little point engaging with those of you with no FAITH as your erstwhile intellectual black and white responses, born from an irrational FEAR of the unknown, indicate an unshakeable closed mindedness...
a closed mind?
i, like many atheists, would change my mind if i was presented with evidence.
what would it take to change your mind?
all us non-believers *may* be in for a nasty surprise, though.
Given that more than one religion states that followers of other religions are damned to eternity in hell, and that non believers will follow the same fate, I suspect if religion(s) exist, we're all off to a hot place under ground...
closed minded?i, like many atheists, would change my mind if i was presented with evidence.
what would it take to change your mind?
Good retort that 😀
I would hope that I keep the the not-being-a-dick side of the line
You invariably do.
I'd sooner have a faith than not - living without hope for me would be very grim
(from somewhere on page 1)Basically more or less everyone [b]agrees[/b].....
Just wandering whether that quote is strictly true? Anyone fancy summarising 5 pages (of conflict)?
i, like many atheists, would change my mind if i was presented with evidence.what would it take to change your mind?
I'm not asking or suggesting that you change your mind. Refer to the article Miketually linked to and purely have some respect for those that choose to have their beliefs.
And ultimately, as wwaswas suggests:
see the thing is if this life is all that there is then he won't be disappointed 'cos he/his soul won't exist to be.all us non-believers *may* be in for a nasty surprise, though.
[i]I'd sooner have a faith than not - living without hope for me would be very grim [/i]
why would not having a faith leave you without hope?
I have lots of hope for my life and those of my family - I don't need a religion to provide a reason for looking to the future.
Junkyard - MemberBinners you prove my earlier point - the catholics are excellent at keeping the lapsed within the flock
Indeed.
[i]I'm a Roman Catholic,
And have been since before I was born,
And the one thing they say about Catholics is:
They'll take you as soon as you're warm.[/i]
At the end of the day, your kids will get a better education at the local Catholic school than they will at the alternative C of E affair . And as long as that's the case, then they'll always fill the pews.
So....perhaps the Archbishop of Canterbury should stop banging on about female bishops and gayers, and start addressing the real issue here. Their frankly lax and lackadaisical educational standards 😆
"Something omnipresent shouldn't be difficult to find."
It isn't... billions of us have
Hi folks. Let's get started shall we?
Firstly, creationism and intelligent design are not the same thing. Evolution is compatible with intelligent design, since the designer could have just set up the initial conditions and let it happen. No-one knows why there was a big bang after all.
I’ve never felt more happy, empowered, relaxed and free since I’ve been going to church.
Bully for you. Not evidence of god, however
No but it is evidence of the value of religion.
or think we need to be taught it to make us better
We do need to be taught about religion to make us better, because many other people believe these things and understanding other people is extremely important in avoiding conflict.
It was just created as an excuse for a fat bloke to shag about a bit.
Not quite - the reformation had started some time before the fat bloke and had been having a big impact all over Europe. The fat bloke just jumped on the bandwagon.
Which, contrary to popular conception, is always rammed to the rafters on a Sunday
Yeah but what about the rest of the week?
wwaswas - interested to know what you place your hope in?
I have respect for other people's beliefs, as long as they're not rammed down people's throats.
The default position should be that that children are brought up in a secular manner, and are free to choose religion or not when they are old enough to understand it.
That's not currently the case in most situations.
As an aside though, what does puzzle me is people like ro5ey up there. I'm pretty sure picking and choosing the bits if god's teaching isn't really observing religion. It's a bit like Lance saying he wasn't doing anything wrong and was following the rules of the sport because he was only on drugs some of the time
Would mentioning the Tim Minchin 'The Pope' tribute song be inappropriate?
It's fairly (a lot) NSFW but worth a google for the lyrics beyond the profanities.
I won;t link for risk of the banhammer.
[edit] @tyger - humans. I realise I'm more likely to be disappointed but they're far more likely to surprise and delight me.
It isn't... billions of us have
Yet non can provide any material evidence.
The plot thickens...
The default position should be that that children are brought up in a secular manner, and are free to choose religion or not when they are old enough to understand it.
That's only your default position unfortunately. If you believe that something as important as God exists and you DIDN'T teach it to your children then you really would be unbalanced.
However they should of course be free to decide themselves if they believe it or not
You invariably do.
Good to know.
The default position should be that that children are brought up in a secular manner, and are free to choose religion or not when they are old enough to understand it.
But what about politics? Or personal values? Or even goals and dreams?
You can't mandate what parents tell their kids, or how they tell it.
It isn't... billions of us have
Yet non can provide any material evidence.
They have provided evidence, you just don't accept it.
That's only your default position unfortunately. If you believe that something as important as God exists and you DIDN'T teach it to your children then you really would be unbalanced.
Most people's default position on things that are generally unbelievable to the rational person is that the dint exist, until provided evidence to the contrary. c/f the world not being flat
born from an irrational FEAR of the unknown
Two things.
1) I don't have a fear of the unknown. I'm quite comfortable with the concept that there's plenty of things we neither know nor understand. Religion provides convenient answers for people who cannot accept that.
2) Nothing screams "zealot" quite so loudly as putting RANDOM words in CAPITALS every five minutes for no apparent reason. It does your argument no favours.
I would hope that I keep the the not-being-a-dick side of the line, but if I occasionally cross it it's unintentional.
Well said, Mike. Likewise.
You start with such promise:
I have respect for other people's beliefs, as long as they're not rammed down people's throats.
...To then completely nullify your statement with the following:
As an aside though, what does puzzle me is people like ro5ey up there. I'm pretty sure picking and choosing the bits if god's teaching isn't really observing religion.
And:
Yet non can provide any material evidence.
Which is it to be?
There's a big building at the end of your street, you'll find the people in there will happily assist you in the general direction. But it's really up to you?
In my case that's a Buddhist Temple, I'll nip round later.
They have provided evidence, you just don't accept it.
Where?
The default position should be that that children are brought up in a secular manner, and are free to choose religion or not when they are old enough to understand it.
Utter codswallop! Are you going to leave the really important stuff to chance? Of course not! If your truly important stuff wasn't molded from the very beginning by your parents then either of my daughters could very easily have ended up supporting City!! Can you imagine?!!! I'm sorry but thats a risk I'm simply not prepared to take!!!