[Closed] Council recommendation ...... Speechless

Chatting to a friend who rents out a property.... The tenant has fallen on tough times and can not pay the rent, the tenant went to the council housing place to see if there was anything they could do/advise. She was informed the best course of action was to stay in the property even if she could not pay the rent and just not answer the door if the landlord came around for the rent, she was told it would take months to get her out and hopefully that would give her time to sort things for her and her daughter.

So obviously the tennant is working, and was able to pay her rent, but due to probbaly wasting money on non essentials she got behind on the rent, Housing Benefit could have been claimed, if the house or flat was deemed suitable for her by the council and fullfiled the required rental costs criteria, eg 2 bedrooms, if the child is over a certain age, or the rent is no higher than the maximum rent the council pay in HB.

Probably the person she saw was a benefits rights advisor,some who are excellent and some who believe its their money theyre paying out and dont offer much help.

Make an official complaint to the council and get them to investigate.

Ps how do you like your daughter living at home

I have dinner to cook so I can't carry on with the lovely chat ....

But on the plus side lastuphills you orginally started off by claiming that the council's recommendations had left you "speechless". It's now clear after almost 5 hours of you banging on about it that you've managed to get over your initial speechlessness.

The only surprising thing, considering how strongly you clearly feel about the whole incident, is how vague you appear to be concerning with what the council should have [i]actually[/i] done to help resolve the situation, why is that ?

Which do you think needs the most help even if you are sympathetic to both?

Maybe the landlord ? If/when I inherit from my parents I intend to buy a small buy to let place as it`s the only way I will be able to provide some form of pension for myself

I'd guess there's slightly more to it than the third hand version we're hearing here. Another thing to consider is that the council may not be under any obligation to rehouse people who are not homeless or who have made themselves voluntarily homeless. Thus, to qualify for rehousing help, the tenant may have to wait for enforcement of an eviction order. Tough on the landlord, but that's the way it's been for years.

I've needed to move bad tenants on before now, I look at the cost of lost rent, courts, eviction and enforcement. Add them up, think of a smaller number I'd rather pay and offer up to that amount to the tenant to clear off and put it in writing that they abandon the tenancy. Hasn't failed yet.

I intend to buy a small buy to let place as it`s the only way I will be able to provide some form of pension for myself

Thus, to qualify for rehousing help, the tenant may have to wait for enforcement of an eviction order. Tough on the landlord, but that's the way it's been for years.

Your solutions, whilst not the best possible outcome [ for that is them paying] is a probably the best outcome in the situation

Well see what happens when you pop away for a minute

Project ... Assumption and wrong
Earnie l .... Because I have no idea what the council should have advised I never claimed to have the answers, I have an opinion about what they should not have advised though. Maybe you can think of one that does not potentially involve a landlord losing lots of money. Banging on about it....ah you mean responding to other people's comments on a forum. Speechless ...have you heard me speak?

Junkyard.....I might be offended by that if I wasn't so thick.

Well if if your pension pot is not more important than being homelessness then what is

Because without the 400 quid or so in the future all I will have is the state pension .So it would be rather important to stop me being homeless !

Speechless ...have you heard me speak?

A very good point, no I haven't.

Are you claiming that the council employee's advise has left you speechless but that you can still communicate via posts on an mtb forum ?

Yes....is there a proper medical term how about singletrackism. Seems to happen a lot on this forum

Do you think I should request an edit to the thread title.

Maybe you can think of one that does not potentially involve a landlord losing lots of money.

We all can, the person becomes homeless but that is probably not the best advice for THEM.

Because without the 400 quid or so in the future all I will have is the state pension* .So it would be rather important to stop me being homeless !

* technically t he state pension is less but their is a minimum income guarantee whose name i forget

Yes....is there a proper medical term

Dumbstruck ?

I'm not sure how common it is with regular forum users though - all the ones I've met seemed not to have lost the power of speech. Quite the opposite in fact.

Junkyard..I have a question and this is from curiosity without any agenda, is staying in the house without paying rent essentially illegal, hence the grounds for eviction? So if an individual advised it as the tenants best course of action, is that not being complicit in breaking the law?

I have thought of another question.....that bit about the tenant running up further debt/arrears because of the advise received but still becoming homeless, could a tenant not sue the council. Basically saying all you did was delay me becoming homeless due to a vested interest (ie not having to deal with me until I become officially homeless) thus costing me x amount of arrears.

So now you want the tenant to sue the council ? I'm speechless.

Earnie l .....do you write for the daily mail? You would do well there.

I have thought of another question.....that bit about the tenant running up further debt/arrears because of the advise received but still becoming homeless, could a tenant not sue the council.

The person can sue for what ever they like.

I don't write [i]for[/i] the Daily Mail, but I regularly write [i]to[/i] the Daily Mail. To express my outrage.

But you read the daily mail ?

The tenant has fallen on tough times and can not pay the rent

you read the daily mail ?

How else am I going to be kept informed of vital information such as the news that swarms of vicious Asian hornets are massing at the other side of the Channel ready to invade us and kill our lovable indigenous hardworking honey bees ?

[url= http://www.****/sciencetech/article-2411944/Asian-hornets-head-Britain-Public-warned-swarms-deliver-vicious-sting-coming-English-Channel.html?ito=feeds-newsxml ]Asian hornets head for Britain: Public warned swarms which deliver vicious sting are coming across the Channel[/url]

Thought the voices in your head kept you informed

I think the council are obliged to advise the tenant that they have the legal right to remain in the property until lawfully evicted . They are obliged not to advise the tenant with an eye to maximising a small businessmans profit. The small businessman has a number of solutions to this problem including insurance taking the appropriate bond and lodging it with the relevant agency factoring the expected expenses into his rental charges etc. Who should take the hit for a profit making landlord not understanding his market the landlord or the ratepayers?

I like this bit of first class investigative journalism in the Daily Fail article

Asian hornets were first recorded in Lot-et-Garonne, south-west France, in 2005, after arriving in a pottery shipment from China.
They spread across France but until now were blocked from coming to the UK by the English Channel.

Lets stereotype landlords because they are all like that......be terrible to suffer from stereotyping wouldn't it crank boy why don't you try the tenant who can't pay their rent see what you come up with.

Lots here seem to want to side with the tenant who cant pay ? Lifes a bitch there is nothing wrong with being a landlord .As I have said before it might be the landlords only income or the money may be a small pension .There is nothing wrong with owning property and renting it as a business .The rental return on capital invested per property is actually quite small about 6 to 10 % gross if you watch the doing houses up type telly

Most folk are explaining why the council said what they said. I think everyone is sympathetic to both parties but most would agree the about to be homeless person is at the greatest need rather than the own a house and rent person.
I would imagine a tenant not paying is a risk any landlord would factor in to their calculations.

Re the council my understanding is that it is breach of contract between tenant and landlord - and this has already occurred so they are giving advice on what is best to do at this point. As noted they do not legally need to vacate till served notice etc.
If the tenant could pay and was paying and they advised them to stop then a legal case could possibly be made by the person who received the advice and /or the landlord.
I doubt a case against the adviser/council would get very far personally.

Lots here seem to want to side with the tenant who cant pay ?

I haven't noticed anyone siding with the tenant, never mind lots. Some people have suggested why a council employee might have advised the tenant not to make themselves intentionally homeless, is that what you mean ?

Junkyard ... I think it is wrong use the better/worse off as a basis for comparison, my issue is not with the council explaining the possible scenarios my issue is with what I was told, that the advisor actively encouraged the tenant to remain without paying rent. You are using an example to demonstrate your view, what happens if the landlord had to relocate to find work and now rents a room in a shared house, he needs the rent to cover the mortgage on the rental, his wage just covers his expenses. The tenant remaining in his place now means he loses 3 months rent add in legal fees etc he now can't meet his expenses and is going to be made homeless, the bank doesn't get their money so are going to reposes sticking him with a massive debt (the neg equity), meanwhile the tenant is evicted and rehoused the landlord can't get housed because he is bottom of the pile .....who is worse off? Yep mine is only an example of a possible scenario as is yours.

Obviously the tenant owes the landlord money . The debt increases as the tenant remains. That still does not alter the fact that the council advise was spot on and unsurprising.

It surprised me. That said I still think it is wrong to encourage staying in the place without paying, I also think it is wrong it takes 'months' to evict a tenant who can not/ will not pay the rent.

The idea is to prevent the social ill of homeless people on the streets and the old problem of tenants being locked out without notice by landlords who then sold all the tenants worldly goods at a fraction of their value to recover a couple of weeks rent.

it is wrong to encourage staying in the place without paying

They advised and that is the best course of action for them - that is the Truth.
I am not sure that means it is encouragement - I doubt they were there doing high pressure sales techniques to get them to do this shouting
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Crank ... A valid reason for the principle, but it puts the burdon onto the landlord. Not all landlords fit your stereotype, some rent through necessity and would struggle to meet that burdon. In the same vain not all tenants who do not pay the rent are down on their luck some play the system. Taking 5 months or whatever in my view protects the tenant too much to the detriment of the landlord. A council advising a tenant to actively play the system (in my opinion ) is wrong

I also think it is wrong it takes 'months' to evict a tenant who can not/ will not pay the rent.

But that's how the situation is.

Presumably you would have been much happier if the council employee had misinformed the tenant and falsely told her that if she didn't pay her rent she would be out on the street before the end of the week ?

Junkyard fair comment it was not 4th hand thought I was there chatting to my mate whilst the tenant relayed he story, my comments are based on her version. What was actually said we will never know ... Does that mean we are all discussed out now?

Anyone else got something else interesting to talk about?

No earnie....my speechless ness was caused by how it was related to me ' encouraged...' To stay without paying.

You say encouraged to stay without paying her rent. I say told what the legal situation for her was.

My comments based on the words spoken by the tenant. Your view based on.....?

Taking 5 months or whatever in my view protects the tenant too much to the detriment of the landlord. A council advising a tenant to actively play the system (in my opinion ) is wrong

Well, the detriment to the tenant is that they lose their home. The landlord will lose money. Our society values shelter above money in the grand scheme of things. Should the landlord lose enough money that he is also at risk of losing his home, the legal system will also protect his fundamental right to shelter at the expense of the bank.

Btw, you said that you agreed with my example. I am afraid I don't believe your answer. No-one is going to be handing their keys back to the bank if they couldn't pay the mortgage for a few months.

My comments based on the words spoken by the tenant. Your view based on.....?

My view is based on what you said :

[i] she was told it would take months to get her out and hopefully that would give her time to sort things for her and her daughter.[/i]

I can't see anywhere that she was encouraged to stay without paying her rent. She was, from what you say, told her legal rights.

Of course if what you have told us is false then that's a different question altogether. But based on what you've said there is nothing to suggest that she was encouraged to stay without paying her rent, she was simply told her rights.

Rich same scenario yes (ish) I don't really agree with that either in general terms (I'm not talking specific cases or scenarios)

This response? Which bit do you not believe?

I don't believe that you'd give your house back to the bank if you were unable to pay the mortgage for a few months.

Will you have a credit rating left though?

Well that certainly is one interpretation of my response. 😯

Earnie yep that is part of what I said.