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I don’t think that’s true. Or rather, I think it’s true for a percentage of drivers, but there is a percentage who genuinely don’t know any better. And probably a percentage also who are simply incompetent.
I don't 100% disagree, but I think the bulk of poor driving is avoidable (e.g. speeding, drifting across 2-3 lanes on a roundabout and back again, close passes) people mostly know they shouldn't do it and wouldn't on a test, but do it anyway. There's no way testing will resolve that.
Motorway lane discipline, overtaking cyclists on rural roads, etc. Those might be down to an actual lack of awareness / skill, but then you get back to the issue of the test. The driving test is ~45min long (and a chunk of that is show me / tell me, maneuvers, etc. You can't get to a motorway and back in that time from a lot of towns, let alone drive enough country lanes to guarantee encountering a cyclists and a horse rider.
Back when I passed my test in 1990 it was a six week waiting list and I doubt that’s gone down in the intervening years.
It's now >6months. But I'd argue that putting the test fee up is a negligible cost in the overall scheme of getting a car, even if it were doubled / trebled. That would make centers profitable. Or even just privatize the whole thing, let Serco run it and charge a market rate, we happily trust the car's MOT test to be done privately, why not the drivers?
How would you track this? What about someone who’s kept their licence valid but hasn’t actually driven anything in 10 years, how do the DVLA/whoever know?
Sorry, perhaps it was a poor analogy. What I meant was, we could have short routine tests rather than everyone retaking the full test every x years, moving to longer tests when deemed necessary. Nothing to do with not driving.
There’s no way testing will resolve that.
Perhaps not, but driver (re)training might. There was a piece in the SAC about the consequences of a collision, from those obviously directly involved, through the emergency services, to the highways guy late home for his tea because he had to work late sweeping up the debris. It was about the only interesting take-away I had from the course. I'd bet the wilfully bad drivers don't give stuff like that a second thought.
You need to know how many drivers testing will make a difference to and how many it won't. It would get the older people off the road as they wouldn't be able to pass whereas most of the poor drivers would just be on best behaviour during test and swot up before the test and get a few lessons and pre assessment from the driving instructors spotting new income stream.
No test is going to catch people driving how they normally drive as they know what is at stake.
What I meant was, we could have short routine tests rather than everyone retaking the full test every x years, moving to longer tests when deemed necessary.
I've had to do that to keep track permits active.
Some of the advanced levels (high speed, handling circuit) are quite difficult to get and quite difficult to keep. >75% fail rate.
Worst thing is seeing people on their way to the same place, driving like they've got all the training, yet they only just have permission/training to sit in the back of a slowly driven minibus as it tours the track. As that's all the track training you need to order widgets for the factory.
The guys with all the permits tend to drive very carefully. (As they already know what happens when you completely lose it at speed. Plus loss or track permit if you get a ticket!)
most of the poor drivers would... swot up before the test and get a few lessons
Objective successful then, no?
Objective successful then, no?
Nope, as straight after passing they would back to driving how they like for another 10 years. Passing a test is not going to make them care anymore than they did before the test.
I passed a test when I was 17 and then drove like an absolute tosser for 5 years so didn't make me drive properly did it.
Or even just privatize the whole thing, let Serco run it and charge a market rate, we happily trust the car’s MOT test to be done privately, why not the drivers?
one provider (“serco”) isn’t going to charge a market rate - it’s going to charge as much as the gov will let them. MoT tests are not a single monopoly, but there is also an incentive to fail people rather than just pass everyone who pays. (Note the system in NI and for taxi drivers is different - so it’s not like market forces are always trusted to overcome corruption!).
You’ll need a lot of experienced driving assessors - other than STW where do you find driving gods?
They are driving like * because they are *, not because they don’t know how they should be driving
Yes, I get that but if you have to go to the trouble of changing how you drive to make sure you pass a test them just maybe something will stick!?!?! You then have the added bonus of when they are caught doing something stupid, there really is no excuse and then the heavier sanctions come in.
Saying that, I'd also drop the 'lose your license' threshold to 9 max, and have a graduated fine system so you pay more the more times you get caught (even after the points are off your license).
Although, I do think a lot of it isnt just driving like a ****, but a combination of pure laziness and selfishness.
it could also combat general ignorance. My dad passed his driving test 56 years ago: a lot of traffic laws have changed since then!
Fortunately, my dad is a conscientous sort and stays up to date on this kind of thing, but I'll bet plenty of people don't realise that law X has changed, or junction type Y, which didn't exist when they were younger, requires people to drive in a certain way. So re-testing could help bring people up to date too.
I changed how I drove after a SAC.
Who will asses the assessors?
Letters page from the Guardian
https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2024/oct/27/concerns-over-the-fitness-of-elderly-drivers
A group which represents older drivers is calling on all motorists aged over 65 to consider a regular driver's assessment.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd0gpgjdxepo
Noting this bumped thread but very much related to the call for more regular testing was this incident just down the road from mine the other day:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/man-74-dies-after-bmw-30410069
(apologies for the Reach Media ad-fest link...)
~A family friend waqs continueing to drive with dementia - with his wife in the car ( she had poor eyesight). His motor skills were ok still. One day she got out of the car and he sped off. Was missing for 3 hours and found on a roundabout 60 miles away parked up and asleep.
Too many folk continue to drive when they should not be. We need mandatory retesting for everyone. Younger drivers as well as older ones. I have younger friends whos dri9ving is frankly scary because they are not thinking of it as a skilled and dangerous thing - they use that time to make phone calls.
Periodically* i need to recertify all of my work place competencies, if I don't pass them, I don't work until I can pass them. The only competency I don't need to is my driving license (and my chainsaw)
That BBC link above quotes folk in their 80s saying well I passed at 17.... Grandfather rights shouldn't apply.
I feel we should all be subject to routine reassessment of our driving. Even making it every 10 years would be better than nothing.
*All my tickets have differing durations between reassessment.
I think we're all pretty much in agreement. Is there anyone against the idea?
If nothing else, aside from retesting it can't hurt just to have a refresher. I passed my test in 1990, back then mini-roundabouts were a pretty new idea. I still see older drivers today that clearly don't have a clue what to do with them and will blindly sit there until everyone else has gone or died from old age. They likely took a test 35+ years ago and haven't looked at The Highway Code ever since, and it changes.
Too many folk continue to drive when they should not be. We need mandatory retesting for everyone.
The first statement is no doubt true, but does not support the second statement, a silly knee jerk reaction.
What we need is a system where when people are diagnosed or suspected of dementia there is mandatory reporting to DVLC and those people, the higher risk ones, are subject to more rigorous requirements for testing or doctors approval.
The solution should be focused on the problem, not a random idea plucked out of thin air, otherwise we end up with ideas like “Cyclists kill too many pedestrians. We need mandatory registration and insurance for bikes”
What we need is a system where when people are diagnosed or suspected of dementia there is mandatory reporting to DVLC and those people, the higher risk ones, are subject to more rigorous requirements for testing or doctors approval.
AIUI it's already mandatory, it's just that people don't, not to mention that there are plenty of people about with cognitive impairment but no diagnosis.
I'm in no way against it - and infact redid my test for other reasons a few years back
BUT
has anyone tried booking a test......
has anyone tried booking a test……
Yes - in 1990. 🙂
The wait time back then was something like six weeks. I don't imagine that's changed for the better. I expect also there will be something of a postcode lottery.
but does not support the second statement, a silly knee jerk reaction.
AIUI it’s already mandatory, it’s just that people don’t, not to mention that there are plenty of people about with cognitive impairment but no diagnosis.
Universal retesting is the only way to get everyone, the old, the demented, the complacent, the reckless
Universal retesting is the only way to get everyone, the old, the demented, the complacent, the reckless
Absolutely. Not sure why anyone would be opposed to the idea (assuming we had the infrastructure to actually do it).
The only other way I can see would be reactionary, like we do already with speeding courses. (I think we said this like 4 pages ago.) The issue there though is it could be too late if it's after a 'big one.' But it'd be a step in the right direction at least. Maybe tie it in with licence renewal?
Folk don't object to retesting, as long as it's somebody else that's being retested. Just choose any group or demographic that's not you.
I would have everyone retested. at 10 year intervals maybe reducing over 70
Yes – in 1990.
The wait time back then was something like six weeks. I don’t imagine that’s changed for the better. I expect also there will be something of a postcode lottery.
try 6 months these days . My test was pre-covid - and i just went for the next available test in Scotland option - i ended up in linlithgow abter 2 months - and with the number of on/off ramps and round about to and from the duellers round there .... i can see why people going for their first test were not keen to use it ....
Trying to get a test in any sizable town or city its wild
I would have everyone retested. at 10 year intervals maybe reducing over 70
its a nice idea in utopia ... .but the implementation of it is challenging ...
testing is a captive predictable market with a huge wait list and yet they are still shutting test centres and backlogs are huge.....
testing is a captive predictable market with a huge wait list and yet they are still shutting test centres and backlogs are huge…..
It's as if no one knows what they are doing....
It’s as if no one knows what they are doing….
well it is government run so its kinda par for the course.
Much like many of the other government run agencies.....
I had a demand from the tax man to do a self assessment this year .... after many paperwork and back and forth .... i was due them 10 british pounds.
Someone wasted more than the 10 quid gained sending me emails , letters and doing the verifying and subsequent relevant paperwork.
Those who advocate retesting:
- how much are you prepared to pay for your retest?
- if you think that is a price worth paying, have you spent the same amount on any “refresher” type training?
Does anyone know of another country that has periodic retests? Does it reduce accidents?
How does retesting stop you passing the test and driving like a maniac?
I would do complusory dash cams and random review of the memory card, you could at least see how people normally drove.
You could then do focused retesting or prosecution.
Those who advocate retesting:
– how much are you prepared to pay for your retest?
A fair price - whatever it is now?
– if you think that is a price worth paying, have you spent the same amount on any “refresher” type training?
I had some free refresher training on motorbikes from a mate who is an advanced rider - could do with more
Does anyone know of another country that has periodic retests?
I thought both the US and Aus did? Not at all sure
Does it reduce accidents?
NO idea but logically getting rid of rubbish drivers and making complacent ones think about their driving should do
How does retesting stop you passing the test and driving like a maniac?
We're going round in circles now, we've done this one too. A retest isn't going to stop people wilfully driving like a tit. Extra training might.
There's an old joke, a copper pulls over a bloke for speeding. The guy says something like "but there were people overtaking me!" The cop asks whether he ever goes fishing. "Why, yes" he replies. "Do you ever catch all the fish?"
It would require a lot more driving examiners to cover mandatory retesting. My wife is a new driver learner. She applied for a test date in September. After waiting a few months for a test date (remote test centre not full time) she has a date in early January.
They likely took a test 35+ years ago and haven’t looked at The Highway Code ever since, and it changes.
I passed my test in 1990
So 34 years ago then? Time to pick up that Highway Code... 😉
A fair price – whatever it is now?
theory test - £23
weekday practical talent £62
evening or weekend practical test £75
obviously if you don’t actually own a car you’ll need to add rental cost to that too.
seems fair enough to me. Small price to pay for continuing with a license - less than a tenner a year.
try 6 months these days . My test was pre-covid – and i just went for the next available test in Scotland option – i ended up in linlithgow abter 2 months – and with the number of on/off ramps and round about to and from the duellers round there …. i can see why people going for their first test were not keen to use it ….
Trying to get a test in any sizable town or city its wild
just as well geography wasn’t part of the test!
I'm sure that was funnier in your head but you'll need to explain it
There's currently an inhumane assessment process for the disabled and terminally/mwntally unwell administered by ATOS. We could stop that system and have the GP's refer anyone that presents as cognitively impaired to them for assessment and removal of driving licence.
Everbody wins!
I don’t believe the test availability problem is entirely one of capacity: it’s reported that there’s also a crooked little cottage industry reserving tests in others’ names and then reselling the bookings into the resulting overheated market at a profit.
Reported by whom?
all over media.
all over media.
Pretty sure Watchdog covered it a few months ago, and with kids at driving test age it's been talked about a few times.
No idea quite how it works though.