MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
My FIL has dementia and has been in a care home for the last couple of years, firstly on a respite basis but for the last 12 months it's been a permament arrangement. He pays for his own care. He has recently moved from one care home to another, and the home he left has emailed my Mrs (as she has LPA) to say that they have audited the account and found they made a mistake with the invoicing in March last year and that he owes just over 3 grand. My Mrs has paid every invoice when it was sent and the home has been paid by standing order once he was in permament care. They've sent a spreadsheet supposedly breaking down the costs and where the shortfall was, but frankly it's clear as mud and it doesn't help in the slightest. I suspect they are trying it on, but I'm not 100% certain.
Anyway TL:DR, can we tell them to jog on or is this legal? Obviously, them just telling us he owes 3 grand is not a sufficient reason for us to pay!
For context, this is 3 grand on top of a total paid to the home of £41K.
What was in the original agreement in terms of fees?
Write back saying that you have already paid for his care as agreed, and asking for a clearer written explanation and evidence of the claimed shortfall.
Chances are they would come after you/him for a figure like that, but you should test whether they actually have any evidence of the debt or whether their procedures are so bad that they are simply guessing.
In the meantime gather up the evidence of the money you have paid already, and how it corresponds with the contracted amount over that period.
What was in the original agreement in terms of fees?
I haven't seen it personally (though frankly I'd be amazed if there was an official contract or agreement). Do you mean what payment terms or the amounts or?
Well when my dad was in similar circumstances a fee was agreed before he signed up for the deal. Care packages (and therefore the costs) are usually tailored to the needs of the individual.
I would do what martinhutch suggests. It's not unreasonable and should at least put you in a position whereby you understand whether this is just that they're hanging everyone upside down to see what comes out of their pockets or have found an unusual genuine error in your account.
If you had a contract, it wouldn't be unusual to limit the invoicing period, I seem to recall there's some legal limitation on this but it's years and years, check if there is a contract, I'd be very surprised if they would look after him on the basis of "yeah mate look after the old man and give us an invoice whenever".
Ta. We did just that last night, asked them for a clear breakdown of where they think the problem is.
My Mrs claims there is no contract, though I guess there is a an unwritted one by virtue of the fact he was there and paid them for care. The only official contract between all parties came into existence when he was granted NHS funding for his care approximately 3 months ago, prior to that nowt apparently. We're not trying to dodge paying if it's owed, just that it seems a bit odd asking for money owed 12 months or more down the line. I guess I'm trying to clarify what the legal position is if they won't or can't provide the breakdown and just say "pay up or else".
They have to show that there is a debt
There should be a written contract. Was social work involved?
Write to them asking for a clear explanation and don't pay unless you have one
They have to show that there is a debt
... and it's illegal to pursue an unproven / contested debt, it's harassment.
Contested yes, unproven no.
cynic al - really? You can pursue someone for a debt you cannot prove? Be ready for the writ from me for the £10 000 you owe me.
to the OP
A couple of thingsthat could have meant the home thinks you owe them money
1) the NHS funds never actually arrived or they have forgotten they have them / accounted for them wrongly
2) notice periods - they will often try to charge you for a month after the person leaves because they have long notice periods in the contract.
If you've been paying what they asked and there's no formal contract to say otherwise, I can't see how they can demand more.
Sounds like a shake down to me.
"Unproven" = has not been proved. Not cannot be.
No idea how you misread that.
I didn't misread it at all. You can invoice for an unproven debt but there is no ay you have any legal chance of getting a judgement without proof.
But the debt remains unproven until it's proven in Court. Where/how else would it be proven?
Perhaps "evidenced" would be a better word than "proven" here.
That wouldn't work for a verbal contract tho.
What distinction are you trying to make?
What was in the original agreement in terms of fees?
This - they do need to show the basis upon which the amount is incorrect - otherwise what’s to stop them coming back with an even higher demand once you’ve paid this demand?