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While watching the rugby tonight in the pub we engaged in some constitutional debate. I was told that Wales is not, in fact, a country but a dominion of England. Apparently Wales was conquered by England in the 14th or 15th Century (the exact date didn't come up in the pub discussion), whereas Scotland and Ireland (subsequently NI) were countries that England entered into union with. I was told that this is the reason that, while Scotland and NI can have a parliament, Wales only gets an assembly. Also that this is why there is no Welsh in the Union Flag.
Anyone know the actual constitutional position?
It is a Principality I believe. Whatever that is.
I suppose I should find out though, I live here.
Use of the word Dominion, to refer to a particular territory, dates back to the 16th century, and was used to describe Wales from 1535 to around 1800.
Wales is a country that is part of the United Kingdom and the island of Britain,
source wikipedia
so Wales is a country
Its just a region, of England and the sheep bashers should just accept it.
Wales isn't technically a country due to the fact it never managed to unify the several princedoms of Wales (an English term BTW) before the English conquered the land. Ap Gryffdd (sp?) nearly succeeded but Longshanks put a stop to that.
After that Wales was absorbed into the English legal structure & there remained until the recent devolvement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_in_Wales_Acts_1535%E2%80%931542
Having said all that, it's just a historical anomaly, Wales is a distinct culture and therefore is a country if not legally so.
Just gives us something else to poke the Welsh with during a rugby match! 😛
Just about to have a referendum on devolution in a similar way to Scotland, so will (probably) become more free in legislation that is passed with Wales.
"Its just a region, of England "
Possibly.
But it will be the biggest county in the EnGland.
Who cares? If I can say I'm not english, I'm happy (as are a large majority of the people I know here.). 😛
Sorry that should have been 'within Wales'. This from an Englishman in Wales, although I'm not really very 'nationalist' this allows me to be happy whichever way the Rugby goes, good match by the way!
Don Simon - we're happy you're not English too! 😛
Keeps the gene pool healthy and gives us an enemy at rugby 😆
Un placer amigo mio. 😉
England and Wales first became one country under Romans rule, and remained so for 400 years - 'twas was called Britannia. They had never existed as separate countries previously - just lots of small countries/kingdoms/uncivilised tribes/whatever. Gawd bless the Romans, and their excellent administrative powers. Unfortunately it all went to pot when the Romans left and Wales thought it should be a separate country.
I agree with Don Simon here.
Dominion or country ... Does it make any difference?
The important thing for me is that I 'm Welsh and not english.
England and Wales first became one country under Romans rule, and remained so for 400 years - 'twas was called Britannia.
How close is the match between Brittania and the current England and Wales? I guess Hadrian's Wall suggests that Cumberland and Northumberland were included in Brittania but did it stretch west to include all of Wales and/or Wessex&Cornwall?
Dont know but at least Wales has its own National Anthem 😀
Ah yes Hadrian's Wall......which showed that the Romans not only had excellent administrative powers, but also a sensible and rational attitude. Fully aware that some tribes are beyond civilisation, they built a dirty great big wall across the north of Albion to keep the riff-raff out and leave the Scots to themselves. You gotta admire their common-sense approach.
Funny thing is Ernie, most southern Scots are ethnically saxon in origin anyway which is why Edinburgh has at least some culture... 😉
[b][i]"That's far enough lads..........we won't bother with that bit"[/i][/b]
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😆
Well, at least you can't deny wales was in the better bit
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Definitely a principality!
So what is a principality?
Are there any others? Monaco springs to mind - Lichtenstein too?
Nice of the Romans to build a dirty great wall to keep the riff raff out pity it did nt work and we had to put up with Edward the 1st,Edward the 2nd,Wade,Cumberland.Jimmy Hill etc
Ernie many southern "scots" are ethnically saxon but many are also ethnically welsh some are ethnically norse but most are ethnically "scots" that is to say they are descendants of settlers from what became Ireland. Is that clear now 🙂
oops forgot the picts but they were mostly in the north east and fife
From what i remember of the book "Face of Britain" there are distinct Norse traces in Northern & Eastern Scotland but in the Southern border regions most folk are genetically similar to their English neighbours - no surprise really!
Strathclyde was the area where the Irish/Welsh gene was strong, same in what is now Western Cumbria. Again, not really surprising.
I was struck (in the book) by how all the male Orkney dwellers had Norse DNA and no mainland Scots DNA whereas the women had mainland DNA.
Was explained by Norse going Viking, killing all the men & taking the women as wives/slaves 😯
I dont know about dna but the people of the old kingdom of strathclyde (made up of south west scotland and north west england) spoke a brythonnic language related to old welsh. There are strong signs of norse influence as far south and west as islay.
Well the Norse were well entrenched in Ireland, Dublin is a viking city.
The Anglo-Saxons knew the people of strathclyde as the Strathclyde Welsh, which puzzled me a bit a first til i found out what Welsh meant!
Strange that Norse & Dane DNA can be distinguished, but English/Saxon and Dane DNA cannot.
Ernie many southern "scots" are ethnically saxon but many are also ethnically welsh some are ethnically norse but most are ethnically "scots"
Sounds like there's shed loads of ethics in Caledonia, no wonder the Romans built a wall to keep them out.
Although I dare say a few illegal immigrants/asylum seekers managed to smuggle themselves in hanging onto the axles of chariots........crafty ****ers
I wonder what the Daili Posta had to say on the matter 😕
all welcome here 🙂
Doubt it Ernie, chariot wheels have a slight tendency to come off when they visit Scotland.. 😉
Only if they are fitted at Hal Frauds
some tribes are beyond civilisation
did we not snap the roman goal posts whilst wearing skirts and singing come and have a go if you think you are hard enough?
they knew their army was largely made up of English conscrispts and could see the futility of fighting us with that rabble - can I say shower of shits?
A wall is generally defensive rather than offensive --you mst get a good punchline from that line surely?
i was under the impression that it deemed a principality until very recently, and is now a country. i'll go and have a look for some facts on this...
A wall is generally defensive ........
Not unless it is a defensive wall, which in most cases walls aren't. Hadrian's Wall was merely to mark out the boundary of the Empire and allow the Roman Border Agency to do their job properly - the Romans were terribly efficient like that you know.
I guess the Caledonian riff-raff could only gaze in envy at the wall, as they wondered dreamily what life must have been like on the other side. Sad really.
The governments of the United Kingdom and of Wales almost invariably define Wales as a country.[96][97] The Welsh Assembly Government says: "Wales is not a Principality. Although we are joined with England by land, and we are part of Great Britain, Wales is a country in its own right."
from the font of all knowledge that is wikipedia...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales#Modern_Wales
The norse habit of taking all the good looking ladies and leaving the mingers behind is largely responsible for the disparity between scandavian ladies and british ladies today...