[Closed] Conservative Friends of Israel

Like it or not, Hamas are committed to remove the state of Israel.

can you blame them? after 60+ years of oppresssion what did you expect?
maybe if Israel hadn't stolen the majority of the Palestinian land then things would be different and Hamas wouldn't have no justification or support for their commitment to remove Israel

There are Arab villages throughout Israel, they can live side by side but Hamas cannot and never will.

really? you mean the small pockets of Arab settlements where they are treated like third class citizens? where they are not given the same privileges to work, education, receive health care, own property/businesses as Israeli Jews? where they are still required to pass through military checkpoints? where restrictions are placed upon them over where they are allowed to travel?
you expect all Palestinians to live under rules of apartheid and accept the dehumanisation and humiliation they are subjected to?

The concept of a village does not exist, small communities are built in defendable positions, are surrounded by fencing and there is a rota for guard duty. If travelling between towns you would take your hand gun without question.

minimising casualties by targeting schools and hospitals with air strikes and artillery bombardment? Its certainly a novel approach. How would you say its going? Just remind me what the death toll is again? 80% of whom are civilians, according to the UN.

You might want to read up on how Nato did in the Kosovo intervention back in 1999 - residential areas, couple of hospitals, Chinese embassy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_during_Operation_Allied_Force
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2000/nato/Natbm200-01.htm

maybe if Israel hadn't stolen the majority of the Palestinian land then things would be different and Hamas wouldn't have no justification or support for their commitment to remove Israel

Fatah over on the west bank aren't committed to the destruction of Israel, aren't firing missiles at Israeli civilians, and by some strange coincidence aren't being bombed. If Israel is so committed to wiping out the palestinian population, why is it only the area firing the missiles that they are attacking?

Egypt are happy to watch hamas get butchered as they have a similar pogrom ongoing against their assossciates; the muslim brotherhood, who theyve just decided to execute a sizeable chunk of en masse, yup sounds like israel and the egyptian government are perfect bedfellows

the current Egyptian government is not even a legitimate one. the one that was democratically elected was led by Mohammed Morsi, leader of the Muslim brotherhood. he was ousted in a coup d'etat and replaced by General Sisi who has since forced out the Muslim Brotherhood in a similarly brutal manner.
the MB were pro-Hamas and recognised them as the democratically elected party for Gaza, whereas the Sisi regime does not recognise Hamas as legitimate.
i wouldnt be surprised to know that Sisi had assistance of some kind from the Israeli government in carrying out the coup to bring him to power, as having a neighbouring country that is sympathetic/allied towards its own policies would serve its own political interests.

i wouldnt be surprised to know that Sisi had assistance of some kind from the Israeli government in carrying out the coup to bring him to power, as having a neighbouring country that is sympathetic/allied towards its own policies would serve its own political interests.

Ah, all part of the conspiracy

[img] [/img]

[url= https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BuKw2boCIAE5Oan.jp g" target="_blank">https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BuKw2boCIAE5Oan.jp g"/> :large[/img][/url]

How many rockets does Hamas fire at Egypt ?

Today Palestinians armed with fighter jets, attack helicopters and tanks supplied by Iran and Russia, invaded Israel and indiscriminately bombed residential areas, market places, schools, synagogues and hospital, disabled centres and even UN centres killing over 1900 people, mainly children and women, injuring over 9000 people and destroying water supply, sewerage treatment plants, power station, roads and basic public infrastructure.

World leaders express outrage and utter condemnation at the Palestinian people. They lambast them as terrorists for wishing to destroy Israel. Muslim leaders across the globe are thrust in front of the camera and asked if they condemn the Palestinian acts of terror? The world's illegitimate leaders, dictators and despots line up in front of Washington and Tel Aviv to send their condolences for the loss of precious Jewish lives and promise to compensate with money and favours to the Israeli/Jewish people.

The world unites to protect the Jewish people of Israel and promises to punish Hamas for carrying out the savage attack!

All these robust denunciations would be fair and justified if Palestinians ever did anything like that since the establishment of the illegal state of Israel.

They have never done anything like that.

On the other hand Israel has carried out the following acts of genocide against the Palestinian people and more shamefully the world leaders remain mute and impotent to do anything:

In the Gaza Strip:
* Bombing schools, residences, mosques and hospitals.

* Targeting children, such as those playing on a Gaza beach, killing four of them.

* Bombing without regard to the safety of ‘non-combatants’.

* Blockading all Gaza’s borders: land, sea and air.

* Turning off the water supply to Gaza’s residents.

* Destroying reservoirs that Palestinians use for drinking water.

In the West Bank:
* Moving hundreds of thousands of Israelis into the occupied territory.

* Displacing hundreds of thousands of residents by destroying entire cities.

* Restricting certain roads to ‘Israeli only’.

* Establishing countless checkpoints within the West Bank, making movement from one area to another that should take a few minutes, last for hours.

* Depriving residents of needed medical assistance.

And 60 years of occupation has left:
• 7 million Palestinian refugees (4.3 million registered with the UNHCR); 85% of Christian Palestinians have fled.

• 1.5 million Palestinian Israelis live under race-based Apartheid laws (Nazi- and Apartheid-style compulsory race-based ID at all times; race-based marriage prohibition laws; race-based discrimination over property acquisition, property rights, social participation, travel in their own country and to family reunions).

• 4 million occupied Palestinians are held as prisoners in increasingly abusive conditions in what outstanding Jewish American scholar Professor Noam Chomsky describes as a "Prison".

• They are held without charge or trial in effectively several major Concentration Camps - Gaza, Samaria and Judaea; their capital city has been stolen and violated together with the Third most Sacred site in Islam.

• Post-invasion excess deaths (violent and non-violent avoidable deaths from bombs or bullets or deprivation, respectively) now total 0.3 million and post-invasion under-5 infant deaths total 0.2 million.

• Annual Occupied Palestinian avoidable under-5 infant deaths total 2,400

• Annual violent deaths total about 800 (20% children);

• Annual excess deaths total 5,000 - deaths in custody at the hands of a racist, Apartheid regime.

• It has cost the American taxpayer about $3 trillion plus a further $3.5 trillion accrual cost of the racist Zionist-backed War on Terror.

The world leaders don’t say much against Israel and even when they do it is very tame and often blame the Palestinians unequivocally for all the evil Israel perpetrates. This stupidity must end now! Israel must be brought to justice for its catalogue of crimes against Palestinian people.

Where are the Jewish leaders and why don’t we see the Jewish leaders and rabbis paraded in front of TV screens condemning the 6th attack on UN schools in Gaza, 20th attack on hospitals and 2000th attack on civilians? Where are the Jewish voices of reason? Have they all lost their conscience in blind support of Israel? What could be more cowardly than killing sleeping children, elderly men and women?

Israel commits these heinous crimes yet the Jewish community stays silent! Judaism has been highjacked by the Zionist extremists and you are not condemning it loud enough!

Israel must be peacefully dismantled and one state for all people must be restored. Muslims, Christians and Jews are all entitled to equal access to the holy land and as equal citizens with equal rights in one single state for all.

[b]Konabunny[/b] - I was not including the hardline wingnuts, just trying to point out that a normal way of life, as we know it, does not happen there.

Apparently not Footflaps. I'd have thought ground penetrating radar or really accurate seismology or listening gear could do it but it seems not.

Total nonsense, they could easily locate them, but that's not the issue, they wanted a war to crush Hamas so they can nick their Gas.

I was not including the hardline wingnuts, just trying to point out that a normal way of life, as we know it, does not happen there.

footflaps - Member

Total nonsense, they could easily locate them

That's what I'd have thought... But it's widely reported otherwise, even from relatively unbiased outlets.

So apparently IDF forces withdrawing from gaza, 72 hour ceasefire agreed...

look...some dead Palestinian terrorists!!
at least they wont be firing rockets at Israel...hooray for Zionism(!)

[img] [/img]

you think Hamas want peace talks with a government that advocates this??
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/concentrate-and-exterminate-israel-parliament-deputy-speakers-gaza-genocide-plan

who is the bigger terrorist?

Well all of that stuff about there not being villages and packing handguns to travel is nonsense in most of Israel.

The last figures I saw were 92% of jewish Israelis lived in towns or cities, with the majority of the rest living on collective farms. I'm happy to be proved wrong.

DP

But it's widely reported otherwise, even from relatively unbiased outlets.

You mean journalists just repeat press releases given to them...

Even if ground penetrating radar didn't work, you could just dog down 50m and find them. That would be cheaper than spending $100m in munitions, plus loss of life etc in a war for which Congress has just passed emergency extra funding for.....

Well at least the he world is safe from those dead Palestinian terrorist babies pictured above

Israel can be proud of another job well done

And our fine government who refuse to condemned the deaths or in fact stop selling weapons to israel

hay ninfan did you read your link re Kosovo "Statistically speaking, civilian casualties were lighter than any other conflict involving modern mass airpower."
unlike Gaza no evidence of deliberately targeting civilians save for the Chinese embassy No evidence of snipers killing unarmed men . a longer proper war killing fewer civilians . Not only is your link more "whataboutary" it does not really do anything but emphasise how bad the IDF are.

footflaps - Member

Even if ground penetrating radar didn't work, you could just dog down 50m and find them.

You know I don't think it's quite that simple, along a 31 mile border.

You know I don't think it's quite that simple, along a 31 mile border.

They survey for minerals / oil over much larger areas and much deeper.....

Yep but you're not looking for an oilfield 3 feet wide.

Crankboy, i was just thinking the same thing. Can't decide if it was worthy of point 6 of the 'israeli public relations guide' gonzy posted above, whether or not it was, the text of the article hardly supports the argument it was used to back up.

I sometimes wonder whether ninfan reads the links he posts, or if he does, perhaps he does not expect anyone else to. Also (and iirc one of his previous logins is on record on here saying so) he often takes the contrary position to any prevailing (and his view OTT) opinion just for his own amusement, not because it necessarily reflects what he really believes. Anyone remember Stephanie? 😆
Somewhere else on the internet, right now, ninfan is having just as much fun on an american forum using these very arguments to put the wind up blustering Hannity-types. 😀

Crankboy - at the time of writing it was, however if you sit down and look at the figures of targets hit versus civilian casualties, the Israelis are doing far better

Some interesting reading:

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4570/gaza-civilian-casualties

If you want to get geeky about it, theres a fairly extensive review of the effectiveness of the NATO bombing campaign here:

[i]Put differently, NATO flew 5,926 sorties to strike and restrike 102 target groups (the
U.S. says 200 targets), or 58 sorties per target group by Day 20. It flew 1,687 actual
bombing runs or 17 sorties per target group hit. If one only counts target groups with
severe damage or destroyed, this is 5,926 sorties for 44 targets[/i]

So 44 targets destroyed for 500ish civilian casualties

And of course the Serbians weren't storing weapons in UN schools...

jambalaya - Member

Israel is not doing what *** it wants, it is making a very significant effort to minimise civilian casualties. It does not do so with total impunity or thought as to the consequences of it's actions. However the threat to its security from Hamas is too great to ignore, hence we see the conflict we have today

I have not met you but would like to punch you in the nose for coming out with that utter crap.

Go onto instagram or google and type #gaza or gaza casualties and look at the children with heads and limbs blown off - it may change your mind.

NO? - Then look the 'commercial' news where they show biscuit factories, un schools, places of refuge and hospitals that have been hit DISPITE Israel being informed that they were there several times.

I know civilian casualties are going to happen, that's the nature of the beast but so many are avoidable - as most of the world is saying now - war crimes have been committed - WAKE UP

No bloody wonder anti-Semitism is coming out and on the rise if your going to defend these actions just because your Jewish.

just because your [s]Jewish[/s]Zionist.

fixed that for you...Judaism has very little to do with what is happening...Zionism has hijacked the religion and is now hiding behind it whilst implementing its racist, bigoted and greed filled authority on the Israeli people.
the Israeli/Jewish population has had 60+ years of being brainwashed by the Zionist ideology and can now see no wrong in what this movement is doing. they have been wrongfully indoctrinated a siege mentality that the whole world is out to get them, they are the victims, they are owed the holy land etc..

jambalaya - Member
@earnie - a note on international law. If your neighbour fires rockets at you and spends years digging tunnels 30m below the surface so it can attack you, you are perfectly entitled to respond. The tunnels show quite clearly what Hamas would do if the border crossings where open. Perhaps you have seen the videos of the Israeli's pulling huge amounts of weapons and even motorcycles from the attack tunnels built into Israel. All materials to attack Israel's. There where no sheep.

under international law a blockade is an act of war, and you also have a right to self defence under such circumstances..

seosamh77 - Member

jambalaya - Member
@earnie - a note on international law. If your neighbour fires rockets at you and spends years digging tunnels 30m below the surface so it can attack you, you are perfectly entitled to respond. The tunnels show quite clearly what Hamas would do if the border crossings where open. Perhaps you have seen the videos of the Israeli's pulling huge amounts of weapons and even motorcycles from the attack tunnels built into Israel. All materials to attack Israel's. There where no sheep.

under international law a blockade is an act of war, and you also have a right to self defence under such circumstances..

And when you don't have an official 'army' to defend yourself and you do what you can with what you have you will be labelled as a 'terrorist' and treated as such.

@ernie - I owe you a responce to why anti-semitic, when you start classifying a whole country as racist or Zionist amongst other accusations in your post, that is worthy of the tag.

How dare he suggest such a thing? Oh...

In a recent study by Friedrich-Ebert-Stiftung, half of all Jewish Israeli high school students said Arab-Israelis should not receive the same set of rights as Jews. Of those that identified as religious, half said the now familiar slogan “Death to Arabs” was legitimate.

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/israeli-racism-gaza-kleinfeld-511

But it's only half the young people not all of them eh?

Anyway - any nation state that is defined on religious grounds is by it's very nature racist. How is this not racist?

The Law of Return grants all Jews the right to immigrate to Israel and almost automatic Israeli citizenship upon arrival in Israel. In the 1970s the Law of Return was expanded to grant the same rights to the spouse of a Jew, the children of a Jew and their spouses, and the grandchildren of a Jew and their spouses, provided that the Jew did not practice a religion other than Judaism willingly. In 1999, the Supreme Court of Israel ruled that Jews or the descendants of Jews that actively practice a religion other than Judaism are not entitled to immigrate to Israel as they would no longer be considered Jews under the Law of Return, irrespective of their status under halacha (Jewish religious law).

From the Israeli Nationality Law.

ninfan Richard kemp and the gatestone institute may well have a little bit of an obvious agenda the second link does not work.

So how many children is it ok to deliberately target in a school in order to take out a stored rocket that is not in the process of being deployed and were it to be deployed has so far had a 0% success rate?

How many other schools/children can you hit on the basis that other schools had the odd ineffective rocket in it.

IMHO

Israel will win this war, with there far better weapons, but the Muslims will win the battle
The next thing will be another twin towers event, to show the Americans and any one else that us there mates is that they are vunerable,

Send a tank in when you know they have only shit weapons, it's bully boy tactics, I'm not for one side or the other but having been bullied at school, because I was only small I hated it, and I never forgot about it and the people that did it

Jews shoot Muslim kids because they are the next generation, they don't care

mikyman jews are a race and religion . The people doing the killing of children and civilians are the IDF on the orders of the Israeli government they do it to collectively punish the Palestinian people because some Palestinians are in Hamas and some in other jihadist groups . It is wrong to make the same mistake as the IDF and lump all people of a race or religion together for condemnation.

It's possibly the first time I've ever agreed with Boris Johnson:

“I cannot for the life of me see why this is a sensible strategy. It is not my function to arbitrate or adjudicate in this matter – I am a passionate supporter of Israel. I cannot for the life of me see the purpose of this. It is disproportionate, ugly and tragic and will not do Israel any good in the long run.”

I agree with you 100% I'm not saying one is right over the other, it's just how I see things panning out, would you agree with that

The Jews will not be happy till the Muslims are in the sea and they can have the lot, ethnic cleansing on a grand scale, and no one does a thing, why is that, it's a bloody disgrace

they are owed the holy land etc..

If the situation was reversed and the Palestinians were bombing the **** out of the Isreali's do we think western leaders would be releasing sound bytes 'condemning' the atrocities, or would we be preparing a ground invasion and sending a vanguard class submarine to the area?

It's a disgrace.

Give us your answer king

It is a disgrace and it's one that will bite us in the arse, the British government are week willed and lead by the nose of Americans

Give us your answer king

Do I need to answer? 🙄

No I think I know and agree

milkyman - Member

Give us your answer king

I want to answer! Me! Me! Me! (just like an eager 4 yr old putting his/her hand up in class ... 😆 )

Annihilate the weakest side. One side must be wiped out from the map. Kaput, gone. 😈

Or one side can be relocated to nearby countries as refugees rather than fighting as tunnel rats or being labelled as bully then both sides accumulate their strengths or regroup, after some years go in for the full scale war once and for all. I want to see tanks, rockets, jets ... I mean proper war.

So stop whinging about being bullied. 🙄

You are a cock

milkyman - Member

You are a cock

😯 😮

People are dying on a massive scale and you go and make a statement like that, you need to go and have a word with yourself in the mirror, imagine if it was your family living there can you do that?

Indeed one wonders what drugs are required to turn a grown up into a chewk

Please dont confuse this with me wishing to speak to you/hear your view

Oh I was always under the impression he wasn't a grown up.

milkyman - Member

People are dying on a massive scale and you go and make a statement like that, you need to go and have a word with yourself in the mirror, imagine if it was your family living there can you do that?

One side is trying to take more and one side is trying to take back. Both sides are stubborn so fight fight fight at the expense of ordinary folks.

Junkyard - lazarus

Indeed one wonders what drugs are required to turn a grown up into a chewk

I think all of you are on some sort of hallucinating drugs thinking of an utopian solution. 🙄

slowoldman - Member

Oh I was always under the impression he wasn't a grown up.

Is everyone a grown up? Are you? 😯

It's ok, I don't take sides on the religion or race front, we all bleed red blood, I don't know what the answer is but it's not right in so many places in the world not just there, whenever we are born in this country as hard as it is somtimes for some people we have won the lottery of life, we have a health service and clean running water etc, all I want is for the same for every one and put religion on the back burner

[b]Please dont confuse this with me wishing to speak to you/hear your view[/b]

milkyman - Member

It's ok, I don't take sides on the religion or race front, we all bleed red blood, I don't know what the answer is but it's not right in so many places in the world not just there, whenever we are born in this country as hard as it is somtimes for some people we have won the lottery of life, we have a health service and clean running water etc, all I want is for the same for every one and put religion on the back burner

Ya, keep adding fuel to fire than you have an even larger scale of body bag count.

Sometimes you just have to let them fight until their heart content.

🙄

Junkyard - lazarus

Please dont confuse this with me wishing to speak to you/hear your view

He is on my side speaking for me indirectly. 😆

Chew nob head or what ever you call yourself

If there is going to be a fight and there already has been, 1800 dead as supposed to 80, would you not think it fair to give them some weapons and make it a fair fight, or do you like to watch bully's

milkyman - Member

Chew nob head or what ever you call yourself

If there is going to be a fight and there already has been, 1800 dead as supposed to 80, would you not think it fair to give them some weapons and make it a fair fight, or do you like to watch bully's

Even if there is 1.8 billion death it is still a drop of water in the grand scheme of the universe.

I don't support either side as life is already hard for me.

🙄

Edit: the title "Conservative Friends of Israel" ... I am not their friends. 😆

1 death it's to many weather it's mine or yours or any body else, it's not on and it's not right

milkyman - Member

1 death it's to many weather it's mine or yours or any body else, it's not on and it's not right

errmm ... have you elevated yourself to a saint now?

Death surrounds us all and you cannot prevent that. You may perhaps prolong the life but death is a certainly for all.

The only difference is some died peacefully while others died in agony.

Give up death and you shall have peace.

🙄

You are a total and utter ****ing cock

milkyman - Member

You are a total and utter **** cock

Man blinded by his own ego see no elephants but himself.

😯

chewkw - Member

I don't support either side as life is already hard for me.

You're not going to start talking about your haemorrhoids again are you ffs ?

I am blind, your words 1.8 billion that's a big number
So how would you feel if was your mum dad sister wife etc and you had no house no water nothing to eat would you feel so bullish then?

You are a fool or a troll but if you really feel like the way you express your self I feel sorry for your narrow mind and your lack of sympathy for the human race

ernie_lynch - Member
You're not going to start talking about your haemorrhoids again are you ffs ?

Haemorrhoids is like the man's ego it comes and go, put some Anusol to soothe it then it will disappear until the next time it appears again. They are all gone now but thanks for asking.

milkyman - Member
I am blind, your words 1.8 billion that's a big number

Universe has no bound and even hundreds of universe perish it is nothing but a drop of water in grand scheme of things.

So how would you feel if was your mum dad sister wife etc and you had no house no water nothing to eat would you feel so bullish then?

If it is the time for them to depart this world so be it. Death is nothing but another journey. (okay for the scientific minded you turn to ashes ... stop arguing I know you lot)

You are a fool or a troll but if you really feel like the way you express your self I feel sorry for your narrow mind and your lack of sympathy for the human race

The nature of things cannot be controlled totally but merely to live along side them to your best.

🙄

You have your point of view and I respect that we all have one

milkyman - Member

You have your point of view and I respect that we all have one

Stop being angry with external matters because that will not do you good. Contemplate death and once you have let go of death you shall be in peace.

😀

But if your neighbour is the wrong colour, is not to a colour of your likeing, is on benifits , rides the wrong bike, then what do you do when it's closer to you

You really are a prick

milkyman - Member

But if your neighbour is the wrong colour, is not to a colour of your likeing, is on benifits , rides the wrong bike, then what do you do when it's closer to you

I see no colour but merely beings of different natures, if their hearts are good then we are all happy but if they have selfish hearts then I move on. Let them have it so long as they leave me in peace and do not intend to disturb me. 😛

milkyman - Member

You really are a prick

Anger will bring you nothing good. You will only harm yourself when the fire keeps burning inside you.

🙄

Right now I just think your a nob, with your silly emo things, there's nothing smiley about 1800 people dead

milkyman - Member

Right now I just think your a nob, with your silly emo things, there's nothing smiley about 1800 people dead

I don't blame you because the fire in your belly is still burning strong due to attachment to external matters like death.

😐

Well I hope you deal with death when it comes, it's not light hearted it doesn't come with a silly face, it means you have lost some one you love and will never see again do you understand that and it doesn't matter which side your on even if you have a side It hurts

Well. Someone has had enough.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/05/lady-warsi-resigns-government-gaza-stance

Most of the debate on here is a bit like the chicken and the egg debate, even when Israel aren't launching a full on offensive there is day to day tit for tat rocket launches by Hamas and air strikes by IDF, to really see where the blame lies you need to go all the way back to the creation of Israel and look at the maps of what was originally given over as the Jewish homeland, then compare it to today's map and decide how we came to this mess.

I'm happy to be corrected but wasn't there recently an EU sponsored agreement between Hamas and Fatah to have closer links to help push forward a peaceful agenda with the Israelis? I don't think this was exactly what Israel wanted and the rather convenient (though obviously tragic) kidnap and murder of three Israeli teenagers, which even the very right wing Sky news are reporting that Israel lied about to their public, was too good an opportunity to pass up on to start a war with Hamas and scupper any chance they'd have of forming a strong united diplomatic voice with Fatah.

As an aside, i went on holiday to Israel back in 2001, and whilst i found many Israelis to be warm and friendly people, there were plenty who with out being asked their opinion were only to glad to tell me how they thought that every Palestinian man women and child should be eradicated from the planet, because god promised them the place ! Pretty nasty people.

I'm happy to be corrected but wasn't there recently an EU sponsored agreement between Hamas and Fatah to have closer links to help push forward a peaceful agenda with the Israelis? I don't think this was exactly what Israel wanted and the rather convenient (though obviously tragic) kidnap and murder of three Israeli teenagers, which even the very right wing Sky news are reporting that Israel lied about to their public, was too good an opportunity to pass up on to start a war with Hamas and scupper any chance they'd have of forming a strong united diplomatic voice with Fatah.

I think you are absolutely spot on with that assessment.

Although I can't agree with your suggestion that [i]"there is day to day tit for tat rocket launches by Hamas and air strikes by IDF"[/i]. Ceasefires tend to hold up quite well for long periods. From an Israeli newspaper: [url= http://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-fired-rockets-for-first-time-since-2012-israeli-officials-say/ ]Hamas fires rockets for first time since 2012, Israeli officials say[/url]

milkyman - Member

Well I hope you deal with death when it comes, it's not light hearted it doesn't come with a silly face, it means you have lost some one you love and will never see again do you understand that and it doesn't matter which side your on even if you have a side It hurts

Live life as honestly or as good (rights) as you can so when death comes it will be a blessing.

Live a life of wrongs then you will fight death in your dead bed refusing to go in agony.

My love ones will die but before they do I want to make sure they do all the rights in life and that death is nothing but a journey. Nothing to fear so be at peace.

Bazz - Member

Most of the debate on here is a bit like the chicken and the egg debate ...

The cycle is very hard to break unless those that live in that regions understand that in their own hearts.

chewkw, you are Deepak Chopra and I claim my £5.

Bazz - Member

Most of the debate on here is a bit like the chicken and the egg debate, even when Israel aren't launching a full on offensive there is day to day tit for tat rocket launches by Hamas and air strikes by ID

In the run up to the Gaza war (2008) they had an extended spell of near-peace, with the IDF breaching the ceasefire more often than the palestinians. So it's not constant tit for tat.

Unfortunately the precedent is that if peace lasts too long, Israel'll shatter it.

(and as Ernie picks up, it's wrong to say rockets = Hamas, they certainly do fire rockets but they're far from the only ones operating)

There's another element with the Hamas and Fatah reconciliation deal, in that it forced a palestinian election within six months, this had been on the cards for some time and much of the belief in the Israeli camp was that the long period of tunnelling under the Gaza/Israel border had been preparatory for a series of major cross border attacks by Hamas as in the run up to these elections, either to attack civilian targets or to seize Israeli soldiers as prisoners as a pre-election publicity coup

resulting of course in the risk of the he nightmare scenario for Israel, being a Hamas controlled government covering both Gaza and West Bank

and thats why the tunnels are such a huge issue!

There is no doubt in my mind who the main aggressor is in this conflict, and i'm happy to be corrected on any of my points, it's just my experience from serving in Northern Ireland that a hell of a lot of "low level" stuff goes on daily with out ever making national news, i was under the impression that it was similar there.

Ninfan - there is a hell of a lot of conjecture there, and it sounds an awfully lot like Israeli propaganda.