[Closed] Conservative Friends of Israel

Apparently not Footflaps. I'd have thought ground penetrating radar or really accurate seismology or listening gear could do it but it seems not.

Total nonsense, they could easily locate them, but that's not the issue, they wanted a war to crush Hamas so they can nick their Gas.

I was not including the hardline wingnuts, just trying to point out that a normal way of life, as we know it, does not happen there.

footflaps - Member

Total nonsense, they could easily locate them

That's what I'd have thought... But it's widely reported otherwise, even from relatively unbiased outlets.

So apparently IDF forces withdrawing from gaza, 72 hour ceasefire agreed...

look...some dead Palestinian terrorists!!
at least they wont be firing rockets at Israel...hooray for Zionism(!)

[img] [/img]

you think Hamas want peace talks with a government that advocates this??
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/concentrate-and-exterminate-israel-parliament-deputy-speakers-gaza-genocide-plan

who is the bigger terrorist?

Well all of that stuff about there not being villages and packing handguns to travel is nonsense in most of Israel.

The last figures I saw were 92% of jewish Israelis lived in towns or cities, with the majority of the rest living on collective farms. I'm happy to be proved wrong.

DP

But it's widely reported otherwise, even from relatively unbiased outlets.

You mean journalists just repeat press releases given to them...

Even if ground penetrating radar didn't work, you could just dog down 50m and find them. That would be cheaper than spending $100m in munitions, plus loss of life etc in a war for which Congress has just passed emergency extra funding for.....

Well at least the he world is safe from those dead Palestinian terrorist babies pictured above

Israel can be proud of another job well done

And our fine government who refuse to condemned the deaths or in fact stop selling weapons to israel

hay ninfan did you read your link re Kosovo "Statistically speaking, civilian casualties were lighter than any other conflict involving modern mass airpower."
unlike Gaza no evidence of deliberately targeting civilians save for the Chinese embassy No evidence of snipers killing unarmed men . a longer proper war killing fewer civilians . Not only is your link more "whataboutary" it does not really do anything but emphasise how bad the IDF are.

footflaps - Member

Even if ground penetrating radar didn't work, you could just dog down 50m and find them.

You know I don't think it's quite that simple, along a 31 mile border.

You know I don't think it's quite that simple, along a 31 mile border.

They survey for minerals / oil over much larger areas and much deeper.....

Yep but you're not looking for an oilfield 3 feet wide.

Crankboy, i was just thinking the same thing. Can't decide if it was worthy of point 6 of the 'israeli public relations guide' gonzy posted above, whether or not it was, the text of the article hardly supports the argument it was used to back up.

I sometimes wonder whether ninfan reads the links he posts, or if he does, perhaps he does not expect anyone else to. Also (and iirc one of his previous logins is on record on here saying so) he often takes the contrary position to any prevailing (and his view OTT) opinion just for his own amusement, not because it necessarily reflects what he really believes. Anyone remember Stephanie? 😆
Somewhere else on the internet, right now, ninfan is having just as much fun on an american forum using these very arguments to put the wind up blustering Hannity-types. 😀

Crankboy - at the time of writing it was, however if you sit down and look at the figures of targets hit versus civilian casualties, the Israelis are doing far better

Some interesting reading:

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4570/gaza-civilian-casualties

If you want to get geeky about it, theres a fairly extensive review of the effectiveness of the NATO bombing campaign here:

[i]Put differently, NATO flew 5,926 sorties to strike and restrike 102 target groups (the
U.S. says 200 targets), or 58 sorties per target group by Day 20. It flew 1,687 actual
bombing runs or 17 sorties per target group hit. If one only counts target groups with
severe damage or destroyed, this is 5,926 sorties for 44 targets[/i]

So 44 targets destroyed for 500ish civilian casualties

And of course the Serbians weren't storing weapons in UN schools...

jambalaya - Member

Israel is not doing what *** it wants, it is making a very significant effort to minimise civilian casualties. It does not do so with total impunity or thought as to the consequences of it's actions. However the threat to its security from Hamas is too great to ignore, hence we see the conflict we have today

I have not met you but would like to punch you in the nose for coming out with that utter crap.

Go onto instagram or google and type #gaza or gaza casualties and look at the children with heads and limbs blown off - it may change your mind.

NO? - Then look the 'commercial' news where they show biscuit factories, un schools, places of refuge and hospitals that have been hit DISPITE Israel being informed that they were there several times.

I know civilian casualties are going to happen, that's the nature of the beast but so many are avoidable - as most of the world is saying now - war crimes have been committed - WAKE UP

No bloody wonder anti-Semitism is coming out and on the rise if your going to defend these actions just because your Jewish.

just because your [s]Jewish[/s]Zionist.

fixed that for you...Judaism has very little to do with what is happening...Zionism has hijacked the religion and is now hiding behind it whilst implementing its racist, bigoted and greed filled authority on the Israeli people.
the Israeli/Jewish population has had 60+ years of being brainwashed by the Zionist ideology and can now see no wrong in what this movement is doing. they have been wrongfully indoctrinated a siege mentality that the whole world is out to get them, they are the victims, they are owed the holy land etc..

jambalaya - Member
@earnie - a note on international law. If your neighbour fires rockets at you and spends years digging tunnels 30m below the surface so it can attack you, you are perfectly entitled to respond. The tunnels show quite clearly what Hamas would do if the border crossings where open. Perhaps you have seen the videos of the Israeli's pulling huge amounts of weapons and even motorcycles from the attack tunnels built into Israel. All materials to attack Israel's. There where no sheep.

under international law a blockade is an act of war, and you also have a right to self defence under such circumstances..

seosamh77 - Member

jambalaya - Member
@earnie - a note on international law. If your neighbour fires rockets at you and spends years digging tunnels 30m below the surface so it can attack you, you are perfectly entitled to respond. The tunnels show quite clearly what Hamas would do if the border crossings where open. Perhaps you have seen the videos of the Israeli's pulling huge amounts of weapons and even motorcycles from the attack tunnels built into Israel. All materials to attack Israel's. There where no sheep.

under international law a blockade is an act of war, and you also have a right to self defence under such circumstances..

And when you don't have an official 'army' to defend yourself and you do what you can with what you have you will be labelled as a 'terrorist' and treated as such.

@ernie - I owe you a responce to why anti-semitic, when you start classifying a whole country as racist or Zionist amongst other accusations in your post, that is worthy of the tag.

How dare he suggest such a thing? Oh...

In a recent study by Friedrich-Ebert-Stiftung, half of all Jewish Israeli high school students said Arab-Israelis should not receive the same set of rights as Jews. Of those that identified as religious, half said the now familiar slogan “Death to Arabs” was legitimate.

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/israeli-racism-gaza-kleinfeld-511

But it's only half the young people not all of them eh?

Anyway - any nation state that is defined on religious grounds is by it's very nature racist. How is this not racist?

The Law of Return grants all Jews the right to immigrate to Israel and almost automatic Israeli citizenship upon arrival in Israel. In the 1970s the Law of Return was expanded to grant the same rights to the spouse of a Jew, the children of a Jew and their spouses, and the grandchildren of a Jew and their spouses, provided that the Jew did not practice a religion other than Judaism willingly. In 1999, the Supreme Court of Israel ruled that Jews or the descendants of Jews that actively practice a religion other than Judaism are not entitled to immigrate to Israel as they would no longer be considered Jews under the Law of Return, irrespective of their status under halacha (Jewish religious law).

From the Israeli Nationality Law.

ninfan Richard kemp and the gatestone institute may well have a little bit of an obvious agenda the second link does not work.

So how many children is it ok to deliberately target in a school in order to take out a stored rocket that is not in the process of being deployed and were it to be deployed has so far had a 0% success rate?

How many other schools/children can you hit on the basis that other schools had the odd ineffective rocket in it.

IMHO

Israel will win this war, with there far better weapons, but the Muslims will win the battle
The next thing will be another twin towers event, to show the Americans and any one else that us there mates is that they are vunerable,

Send a tank in when you know they have only shit weapons, it's bully boy tactics, I'm not for one side or the other but having been bullied at school, because I was only small I hated it, and I never forgot about it and the people that did it

Jews shoot Muslim kids because they are the next generation, they don't care

mikyman jews are a race and religion . The people doing the killing of children and civilians are the IDF on the orders of the Israeli government they do it to collectively punish the Palestinian people because some Palestinians are in Hamas and some in other jihadist groups . It is wrong to make the same mistake as the IDF and lump all people of a race or religion together for condemnation.

It's possibly the first time I've ever agreed with Boris Johnson:

“I cannot for the life of me see why this is a sensible strategy. It is not my function to arbitrate or adjudicate in this matter – I am a passionate supporter of Israel. I cannot for the life of me see the purpose of this. It is disproportionate, ugly and tragic and will not do Israel any good in the long run.”

I agree with you 100% I'm not saying one is right over the other, it's just how I see things panning out, would you agree with that

The Jews will not be happy till the Muslims are in the sea and they can have the lot, ethnic cleansing on a grand scale, and no one does a thing, why is that, it's a bloody disgrace

they are owed the holy land etc..

If the situation was reversed and the Palestinians were bombing the **** out of the Isreali's do we think western leaders would be releasing sound bytes 'condemning' the atrocities, or would we be preparing a ground invasion and sending a vanguard class submarine to the area?

It's a disgrace.

Give us your answer king

It is a disgrace and it's one that will bite us in the arse, the British government are week willed and lead by the nose of Americans

Give us your answer king

Do I need to answer? 🙄

No I think I know and agree

milkyman - Member

Give us your answer king

I want to answer! Me! Me! Me! (just like an eager 4 yr old putting his/her hand up in class ... 😆 )

Annihilate the weakest side. One side must be wiped out from the map. Kaput, gone. 😈

Or one side can be relocated to nearby countries as refugees rather than fighting as tunnel rats or being labelled as bully then both sides accumulate their strengths or regroup, after some years go in for the full scale war once and for all. I want to see tanks, rockets, jets ... I mean proper war.

So stop whinging about being bullied. 🙄

You are a cock

milkyman - Member

You are a cock

😯 😮

People are dying on a massive scale and you go and make a statement like that, you need to go and have a word with yourself in the mirror, imagine if it was your family living there can you do that?

Indeed one wonders what drugs are required to turn a grown up into a chewk

Please dont confuse this with me wishing to speak to you/hear your view

Oh I was always under the impression he wasn't a grown up.

milkyman - Member

People are dying on a massive scale and you go and make a statement like that, you need to go and have a word with yourself in the mirror, imagine if it was your family living there can you do that?

One side is trying to take more and one side is trying to take back. Both sides are stubborn so fight fight fight at the expense of ordinary folks.

Junkyard - lazarus

Indeed one wonders what drugs are required to turn a grown up into a chewk

I think all of you are on some sort of hallucinating drugs thinking of an utopian solution. 🙄

slowoldman - Member

Oh I was always under the impression he wasn't a grown up.

Is everyone a grown up? Are you? 😯

It's ok, I don't take sides on the religion or race front, we all bleed red blood, I don't know what the answer is but it's not right in so many places in the world not just there, whenever we are born in this country as hard as it is somtimes for some people we have won the lottery of life, we have a health service and clean running water etc, all I want is for the same for every one and put religion on the back burner

[b]Please dont confuse this with me wishing to speak to you/hear your view[/b]

milkyman - Member

It's ok, I don't take sides on the religion or race front, we all bleed red blood, I don't know what the answer is but it's not right in so many places in the world not just there, whenever we are born in this country as hard as it is somtimes for some people we have won the lottery of life, we have a health service and clean running water etc, all I want is for the same for every one and put religion on the back burner

Ya, keep adding fuel to fire than you have an even larger scale of body bag count.

Sometimes you just have to let them fight until their heart content.

🙄

Junkyard - lazarus

Please dont confuse this with me wishing to speak to you/hear your view

He is on my side speaking for me indirectly. 😆

Chew nob head or what ever you call yourself

If there is going to be a fight and there already has been, 1800 dead as supposed to 80, would you not think it fair to give them some weapons and make it a fair fight, or do you like to watch bully's