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I’m in the minority here – I don’t think its a totally ridiculous price:
So we have:
1. A visit to diagnose a dripping cistern which is likely just to be a washer or something else trivial.
2. A visit to plumbers merchant to buy a washer.
3. A visit to the house to fit a washer.
4. Still fitting a washer.
5. A return visit because you've done a sub-par job.
6. Ask for money like every other trade in existence.
7. Pay for a washer along with everything else you've bought that month.
Sure, of course it could turn into a complicated crappy job costing hundreds or more. But a lot of that process sounds somewhat redundant to me. Why would a plumber turn up to that sort of call-out without a box of cheap spares in the van?
In our previous house we have a toilet mech break in the bathroom. The idiot previous owner put the surface on the side above the toilet and tiled / mirror on top of it. No chance of getting it in to repair. Hence we had to drill a hole in the toilet cover to at least getting it working. Mrs then decided it was a good excuse to replace the bathroom. Thousands later the toilet was working. A way to get into the toilet originally and the part .... £4.99
Its only taking the piss if you can do it yourself.
This.
Can any of those folk who reckon it'll take under an hour and £20 of bits come down my house and sort mine out.
Oh, and it's older than me, internally it looks nothing like any of the replacement options in B&Q and the isolation valve is stuck.
For the quoted £200 budget, here you go:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/toilet-to-go-close-coupled-toilet-dual-flush-6-4ltr/580JK
A visit to diagnose a dripping cistern which is likely just to be a washer or something else trivial.
excellent fault finding there. without actually seeing the cistern how old obsolete it might be neigh on impossible to get parts for 🙄 Plumber might actually be doing them a favour of changing the old parts for new. Once you start dismantling old parts the likelihood of something else going wrong with it are high
Have you ever tried to fix a concealed cistern? I can assure you there is nothing trivial about getting rusted / stuck parts free.
I'm surprised that the amount people here that work for minimum wage and think no one has a right to earn money, for feed their family and have nice things .
If its that easy why aren't all the experts here plumbers working for £10hr I'm with poly on this one
200 is pretty reasonable, if it's not - just do it yourself or fit a whole new toilet. Not really sure what the argument is? If you wouldn't pay that - do it yourself ?!
A lot goes into running a business including all the above logistics. Whether they have the parts on the van or not shouldn't affect the price. They still have to stock the parts
It's like saying someone with a technical skill that can fix it in 5 minutes shouldn't charge a hundred quid + vat. It's a hundred quid of value, the time taken is completely irrelevant. (an example).
What all you employed people are failing to recognise is that YOUR employers are selling what you do at large markups. Maybe they should stop doing that, and cut your salary down to 20k a year?
So we have:
1. A visit to diagnose a dripping cistern which is likely just to be a washer or something else trivial.
2. A visit to plumbers merchant to buy a washer.
3. A visit to the house to fit a washer.
4. Still fitting a washer.
5. A return visit because you’ve done a sub-par job.
6. Ask for money like every other trade in existence.
7. Pay for a washer along with everything else you’ve bought that month.Sure, of course it could turn into a complicated crappy job costing hundreds or more. But a lot of that process sounds somewhat redundant to me. Why would a plumber turn up to that sort of call-out without a box of cheap spares in the van?
You do IT shit don't you?
Could you come over and take a look at my computer?
Oh the hard disk is broken. Can you replace it?
Oh you don't carry spare disks that size on your van?
So you can come back later in the week to fix it, for how much?
Now that I know whats wrong I'll just ask on the internet if your price is fair.
Well actually someone on the internet says just to check the cable because they've had them pull out. And someone else says you can get a new disk on Amazon next day for £30.
I can see how it costs a fair bit to do these kinds of jobs, they can end up a pain in the arse so you need to make it worth your while.
I just wouldn't pay though it and would do it my self, but i've been brought up that way. I know others who wouldn't dream of doing a job like this though as it either scares them that they'll **** it up or they just don't like DIY.
£200 seems a bit ott, but then I did argue with a plumber about 4 years ago who was charging £150 for the same job in the office i worked in at the time (Leeds). So maybe £200 is about right nowadays. He managed to string that out for a good half day though. Not sure if he was trying to prove a point but don't think he made too much on that job....
Done a few over the years. It's no biggie when there's an isolator valve.
However, when you can't find an isolator as per in our upstairs en suite,
- and the main tap is in the basement four flights of stairs down a house with high ceilings.
- And you're trying to do the job on your own because shouting/phoning down to your wife is not a quick route to happiness, in fact it's a route elsewhere.
- And you think you're being clever by just replacing the slow flowing diaphragm washer.
- And the en suite gets mains pressure, which is v high pressure even at the top of the house.
- And actually the replacement just isn't quite right.
When these things occur together, it's surprising just how much water can flow out of the ensuite and across the bedroom and under the floating solid wood floor (causing it to buckle slightly over the next couple of days), before you can sprint the four flights back down again to turn off the water, before putting the old washer beck again and putting the tools away. And on reflection think that the £200 may be literally £198 more than the job was going to cost, but possibly worth it.
If anyone's interested I can tell you how I know all these things.
(p.s. I've a new complete mechanism waiting to be installed, exactly the same as I've replaced in our basement toilet in a half hour trouble free job. I just can't nerve myself to do it yet.)
when you are working as a self employed tradesman you are lucky if you have 60% or so of your time working being billable. You also have large fixed overheads. to me £200 is expensive but not absurd. Maybe its an " I don't really want this job so quote high" price - so either he does not get the job or if he does its well worth his while
excellent fault finding there.
You're missing the point. Sure, it could cost that much and possibly more. But rocking up without basic parts and expecting the customer to foot the bill whilst you fanny about at a plumber's merchant is somewhere between stupid and fraudulent. Why would a plumber even turn up on site to fix a running bog without a bag of washers and a replacement flush mechanism? Like they're never going to need those things ever again.
You do IT shit don’t you?
I'm no longer in IT and I have never done "IT shit."
Could you come over and take a look at my computer?
For £200? Sure.
Oh the hard disk is broken. Can you replace it?
Sure. Five minute job.
Oh you don’t carry spare disks that size on your van?
If I were a mobile IT technician I'd carry a boxful because a mechanical disk is likely the single biggest point of failure due to its moving parts. Daft not to.
So you can come back later in the week to fix it, for how much?
Nah, I'll just do it now.
Now that I know whats wrong I’ll just ask on the internet if your price is fair. Well actually someone on the internet says just to check the cable because they’ve had them pull out. And someone else says you can get a new disk on Amazon next day for £30.
Do that then. £30 sounds about right. Off you go.
But rocking up without basic parts and expecting the customer to foot the bill whilst you fanny about at a plumber’s merchant is somewhere between stupid and fraudulent. Why would a plumber even turn up on site to fix a running bog without a bag of washers and a replacement flush mechanism?
which of these https://www.screwfix.com/c/heating-plumbing/toilet-spares/cat831530#category=cat831618 flush valves fits then or should the plumber carry +50 different types at £800+ of flush valves just in case one fits? Nobody would do that would they.
Best practice is look at job see what you need and buy accordingly. Not to carry £00's of stock/parts that may never ever be used. Yes they'll maybe have the odd bit in van but in reality I'd expect them to go and get the part.
Oh the hard disk is broken. Can you replace it?
Sure. Five minute job.
Could you come over and take a look at my computer?
For £200? Sure.
The irony
Quoting £200 sounds reasonable to me if the guy is busy.
Yes, it might be a five minute job, but the chances of ticking off more than two 'five minute' jobs in a day is rare ime.
Part of the problem as a self employed tradie, is that it's a dog eat dog world and this fosters an attitude of needing to make money while the going is good. There's no safety net.
As an example, there was a thread here a few days ago about an IVF and Covid situation where the consensus was that the teacher should take several months off with stress, followed by however long maternity is these days. So maybe a year off on full or near full pay?
This is a good thing and I'd agree with the consensus.
I just wish there was something similar available to self employed people. PPI is of course available, but decent cover for all eventualities makes it realistically a non starter.
The minute you aren't working is when income stops.
£200 is daft money.
Two years ago I paid £220 all in for a heating engineer to diagnose a boiler fault, go and buy a new fan unit and carry out the repair, the same day.
Say £250 for inflation. Can't remember how big a chunk of bill the fan unit was, but more than a bog flush I'd say.
This is in Berkshire, so the expensive South.
I've had to replace the diaphragm in our flush mechanism many times. Also needed to remove limescale from the mechanism.
I bought a new mechanism years ago, but never bothered to fit it, as it's always the diaphragm.
There are lots of different flush mechanisms, inlet valves and wc set ups. Expecting a plumber to carry bits for all of them is daft.
£200 says to me he either doesn’t want the job or there’s a fair bit to it over and above simple maintenance.
Take the lid of the cistern, take some pics, post them up here.
If you manage to post a pic successfully, changing the flush mech will be piss easy.
Forgot to add, if our bog doesn't stop flushing, the float is catching on side and not rising with the water level. But yeah they're all different.
Daft yes, but i sell boxes of washers and o rings as these are a major cause of failure.
Most of us would change old for new as we dont have 101 washers in a carrycase or the knowledge and tricks of the trade that the pros have
White wine vinaiger can fix flush valve seats for example
There's a fluid master valve and filler that fits lots of cisterns.
Still think this job is easily doable by anyone half sensible
which of these... flush valves fits then or should the plumber carry +50 different types
How many don't?
With guidance from this parish I replaced my own in a 40+ year old throne with a modern component a little while back, there weren't many actual variables. I could equally list fifty hard drives and go "which one fits your PC then?"
The irony
The point.
...our bog doesn’t stop flushing...
It's not so much flushing, more like overflowing. Years ago it would have poured down a pipe and into the backyard, now it's all done internally
Not many of here a run a business I guess and quote is for replacement of all the internals not the diaphragm. £200 for a job which will likely take half a day in total.
Forget about the cost of the parts but ask yourself what’s a working toilet worth to me? That’s how value works.
I've changed out 3 toilet flush systems. The modern bog where it was a like for like with the same part - very easy. The other two were old toilets with now non standard parts. Both absolute PITAs just to find suitable parts and washers, then you need to remove the cistern from the wall and bog with ancient imperial sized fixings that have been damp for 40 years. This is all while hugging a 40 year old bog and discovering deposits of congealed piss in crevices as you disassemble it. Meanwhile, there is the isolating water and draining stuff which is either easy or a nightmare. Also worth remembering that anything left leaking will wreck your house. Anything overtightened or dropped will smash something expensive.
I think tool and consumables wise it needed a massive wrench, medium sized wrench and small wrench. Dremel, drill, screwdrivers, putty, tape, replacement isolation valves etc
In short, if it's a manky old bog £200 seems reasonable unless you value your time at £2.50/hr in which case DIY.
Forget about the cost of the parts but ask yourself what’s a working toilet worth to me? That’s how value works.
Conversely, ramping up the price because "what are you going to do otherwise mate, shit in the bath?" isn't my idea of "value".
At the end of the day the OP asked "is this a reasonable cost" and the answer is "it might be." It could be that the entire system is donald ducked and needs replacing, there could be a dozen other complications we don't know about and actually £200 is a bargain; or equally it could be that the plumber is a total charlatan and has seen a soft mark whom he might be able to take for £200 for ten minutes' work. We just don't know. So the only reliable advice here really is "get a second opinion."
cougar - as has been explained its not ten mins work - its several hours at least
I suppose, if the plumber has other bigger jobs on the go, it's his lost time on those jobs he has to account for, and like has been said, what if the job is a pig ?
I've also changed a mechanism on a concealed toilet in out static caravan, now that was a barsteward of a job and no doubt would have been alot for a trades person to do it. The issue was getting one arms inside the cistern covers to undo fittings, and that's a cyclist's skinny arms...
Our loos at home are straight forward, but I suppose you never know how badly some stuff can be fitted previously.
It's expensive, yes, compared to the price, but if you can't do it, then you've got to suck it up. my sister and BIL pay a fortune for stuff to be fixed, they think it's a good price - it's not, but they can't do it.
cougar – as has been explained its not ten mins work – its several hours at least
Explained by a number of people, none of whom have seen the OP's plumbing.
All sorted - the 2nd guy came and fixed it there and then for £70. He was there for about an hour or so.
Cheers for advice/help 🙂
Explained by a number of people, none of whom have seen the OP’s plumbing
Neither have you yet you claimed it was something trivial.
A visit to diagnose a dripping cistern which is likely just to be a washer or something else trivial.
😂
I've had that. Long time ago though. Got a quote of several hundred, for what was admittedly potentially a real pain in the neck job. Second guy came out, poked around and sucked his teeth for 5 minutes and announced "i *think* i've got the parts for this in me van".
45 minutes and 150 quid lighter (cash in hand) everything was fixed.
The flush mechanism for my bog is about 50-60 quid as well, and a couple of hours to swap. So i'd barely even blink at paying 200 quid to get it changed. Though i'd probably try and fix it myself, as my bank account would likely say no before i did.
Bloody posh bathrooms.
All sorted – the 2nd guy came and fixed it there and then for £70. He was there for about an hour or so.
Get ready for the £70 for an hrs work frothing
So bad when banks and supermarkets do it but fine when tradesman decides to rip someone off?
He's not ripping anyone off, he's quoted a price. The buyer is at liberty to get other quotes or just out right reject that one.
If it seems too expensive just don't pay it.
He was there for about an hour or so.
Which is 3 hours more than likely out of his day possibly more.
And this is the customer's problem because...?
Cougar - not sure why you are behaving this way? What are you aiming to achieve? The OP's invested more of his time in finding a second plumber to come and fix it (hopefully permanently) and saved £130. He's done well to get two plumbers to turn up at all!
Cougar – not sure why you are behaving this way?
The OP said he'd been quoted £200 asked if it sounded reasonable. I said that it might be but it sounded steep for what's probably a simple job. He's now got someone else round who's fixed it for a third of the price, so I was correct.
Meanwhile, half the forum is lining up to wax on about how an hour's job takes at least three hours because who even knows why, something about hypothetical Victorian plumbing, and asserting I'm a complete mentalist for having the outrageous notion that a plumber might carry a box of washers in his van rather than billing the customer for him spending half a day at Screwfix.
Plus, y'know,
forum
/ˈfɔːrəm/
noun
1.
a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
"we hope these pages act as a forum for debate"
and here's me thinking you just wanted to see us on Tuesday coming
Going back to the OP he said "flushing" not filling.
OP, I haven't read every post hence not seen it mention, but it could just be that your Flapper is not covering the hole properly due to some dirt or wear - I'd get your arm in and give that a wipe first - 5 mins job could save you money or replace it.
Here:
£200 sounds reasonable 🙂 now.
I had a problem with tenants toilet like this on Wednesday.
Handle seems stiff and replaced ... no joy.
Went for the syphon and bearly worked after installing a new one.
Toilet was always a bit roping looking.
So decided to go for a full replace.
Armitage Shanks from B&Q for £67.
Got it back and badly damaged 🙁 Check before you leave.
Back to B&Q go another SureFlow or something.
Installed that, after hours of Metric V Imperial problems.
Isolater valve then decided to fail...looked like something from a old submarine film.
Could'nt find any spares and the trusty tube of LSX was useful.
Got back to base and found a new valve and went and installed that.
Finally a new toilet all working.
Absolute nightmare.
Also as a bonus, got locked out base camp for an afternoon.
Did I say it was nightmare ;-).
2 days that took :-(. Mostly less than an hour to fix.
A TRUE EPIC!
This is why we need to smash the cistern!
Or something
Damn.....this makes me want to be a mobile bicycle mechanic. I'd turn up to someone's house. Realize that I don't have the right bolt to install a new brake.....but no problem! I can just drive to a supplier, buy the bolt, maybe grab a coffee and cut some bum rope on the way back and I can bill the customer for an extra hour plus gas! And the customer will happily pay!
Going back to the OP, it said, "but ours is constantly running/flushing", which is different to "“flushing” not filling."
It could be a problem with either one or both of the two main internal assemblies, but you're right it could be muck and scale and just needs a clean.
Or the float arm needs a tweak, or a cylindrical float rather than a spherical float to give a bit more space to float, or any number of sub-£5 fixes up to complete replacement x 2. It's really not worth arguing over, as usual STW gave the OP a decent outcome, which is what this forum should be all about
Cougar – not sure why you are behaving this way? What are you aiming to achieve?
Indeed. I am surprised that a mod - especially given the recently locked thread - appears so determined to drag the level of debate down like this. Hey ho.
I thought Cougar has retired as a Mod?