[Closed] club politics when it gets personal - UPDATE

can you not now propose a motion banning him from the club as being a negative influence. Maybe with a qualified majority of 75%?

Great result.

59 to 60 - that's a real vote of confidence

He'd be a proper numpty to keep pushing his agenda after such an epic defeat

good work!

Congratulations glad it all worked out for you. I would seriously suggest you invite him to move on I have a former friend who behaves in a similer way to him you would not believe the amount of time she devotes to feeling wronged or the extent to which she will go to right those perceived injustices. Best rid either by agreement or imposition.

Democracy triumphs!!!!!! 😀

I just have issues with anything that takes a fun, spontaneous, joyful thing and starts straight-jacketing it with rules, and telling you what you are and aren't allowed to do.

On a similar theme, expect the Judean People's Outdoor Club to be formed soon!

Glad to hear that you got the support from your friends and as above, that the bloke reflects on what's happened and either goes elsewhere or modifies his behaviour.

This sounds achingly familiar to other clubs the llama's are involved with. I think that some people are just born manipulative and disruptive, or else too selfish to see beyond their own self interests. It's even worse when it's for kids as on top of that they block out their own life failures through some incorrect assumption that little Johnny is the next Olympic star in the making.

It won't be the last you have heard of this.

Still I bet the look on his face was priceless at the vote.

I can see why clubs were a sort of a necessary evil in the past. And why you'd tolerate the negatives (idiots like the OP describes) when they were the only way of doing things, to enjoy the negatives various (less cynical and anti-social) people have mentioned.

But hasn't the joys of the inter web made the whole thing pretty much redundant? In an age when you can set up your own notice-board, webpage, group etc. Or you could just post a thread on here saying 'who's riding tonight then?'. One of the best things of last year for me was this…

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I had some brilliant rides, on great new routes, with some lovely like-minded people. Its all, like SOOOOOOOO last year now, obviously. And it all came about because Harry the Spider's darling wife changed her Acid Zumba night

But when I look at that, with its casual chaotic spontaneity (and inevitable fun), compared to the OP's update above…. people given 2 minute time-slots to talk about something that happened 3 years ago? Then everyone votes on it? Seriously? I'm sorry, but really… why bother? When there are far less hassle alternatives so readily available? It sounds like something that would go on prior to the first world war. Life really is too short for that kind of thing.

We're in a climbing club.

Yep, we have 4 or 5 long standing members who hate anyone younger than them and an AGM which makes me lose the will to live, but the good things make up for it:

Meets every week, friendly, helpful people and a club hut in the most beautiful place in Britain.

We've got 50 people for a Burns night/whisky tasting do at the end of the month - I really love our club and lots of people work really hard to keep it going.

Well done OP, glad it went well.

Which reminds me….. Rusty…. do you fancy hosting a Monday Night Club and showing us around your local trails?

For lots of sports if you want to compete then you need to be in a club so it is a necessary evil.

llama - That's an interesting point. A genuine question here to the people who've obviously got experience of these matter… does that really need to be the case? As I can't see why it should be in this day and age, at all. Surely technology and easy networking, and online entries, for example, have rendered this whole approach somewhat redundant?

I'm obviously a jaded bugger, but when I read that, my cynical side thinks: is the reason for that, that the people who run the clubs genuinely want the best for the sport and its participants? If so, thats admirable.

Or is it that the whole 'you have to be in a club to compete' thing just another pointless piece of bureaucracy that they can use as a justification for maintaining their own little personal fiefdoms? Or can't deal with the fact that they're unceasingly irrelevant - a feeling most of us are familiar with, I'm sure 😉

Or, like most things, is it a combination of the 2?

I'm not trolling here. I'm genuinely interested in peoples thoughts on this, who have direct experience of official clubs

It's probably to keep the riff-raff out binners.

Or, that local clubs will police their members and that beign a member of a club means that you have a reasonable degree of competency (or at least aren;t dangerous to others). Club membership often conveys membership of a national body and grants a licence ans insurance to the participant too.

Binners, will do!

Sue's not been too chipper lately - give us a month or so to get a little fitness back and I'll put the call out.

Nice pub round the corner too.

Yes it is pointless bureaucracy from another age before they had internet and everything, but nevertheless, you can't enter competitions unless you do so through a club.

IME most people genuinely do want the best for the members. It's the occasional individual who seem to always want to stir things up.

Unexepectedly I find myself on my club's 'committee'. I try to continue to behave like the arse I've always been. Fortunately we're short on proper arse types. We have a big pile of fish and chips with our AGM. Nobody can talk with their mouth full, nobody likes cold chips.

can you not now propose a motion banning him from the club as being a negative influence. Maybe with a qualified majority of 75%?

Whoa there! Why would you do this? From what's presented, the guy's not broken any of the club rules (except maybe for talking three minutes instead of two...). You start kicking people out because their "face doesn't fit" and you end up with a clique. Having a dissenting view is not a reason for exclusion imo

But hasn't the joys of the inter web made the whole thing pretty much redundant? In an age when you can set up your own notice-board, webpage, group etc. Or you could just post a thread on here saying 'who's riding tonight then?'. One of the best things of last year for me was this…

I have news for you old fruit... Due to your continued nonattendance we had a vote and have officially declared that you were a hallucination brought about by inhaling the noxious fumes of whatever it is that they use to swill out the khazi in The Church Inn.

You don’t exist. Sorry.

Will start up Monday nights again once Terra has won The 'Puffer (again) and it has stopped pissing it down.

It's probably to keep the riff-raff out binners.

Will start up Monday nights again once Terra has won The 'Puffer (again) and it has stopped pissing it down

OI! I resemble the accusations of my non-existence. Admittedly I can appear almost ethereal at times, like other mythical creatures that inhabit the woods of an evening…

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Club membership is really cheep though, regardless of the other issues it's £18 for a year at our road club, pays for insurance, some sort of BC registration (no idea what, there's a £9 option if you didn't want it), magazine every so often, and probably some other stuff.

Comapared to £30 for just a magazine from Singletrack it's a bargain.

Or is it that the whole 'you have to be in a club to compete' thing just another pointless piece of bureaucracy that they can use as a justification for maintaining their own little personal fiefdoms?

More likely related to insurance?

More likely related to insurance?

Club membership is really cheep though

just interested in how/why this works

6 years ago I started riding on the road. I didn't know anyone else local who wanted to do that, and I didn't have much fun by myself. I joined a road club, and spent 2 happy years busting a gut every Sunday morning to make sure I was at the appointed place at the appointed hour for a long, sociable and varied ride with some splendidly skilled and encouraging riders, several of whom I was entirely happy to have a beer with (others one simply chatted gently along with on the ride).

3 years ago I turned up in a new city by myself. I knew a few people slightly from the internets and from very casual acquaintance at races. My mountain biking has mostly been done through very welcoming networks of mates which borderline qualify as clubs. My road riding has been with a club, which is an enormous reservoir of enthusiasm and goodwill, and promotes a major road race that would otherwise probably not happen.

An extended network of mates on the internet is a relatively hard thing to break into. A club says "we meet at this time, please come with us" - a standing invitation to all comers to join a ride is a very welcome thing if you're in a new place by yourself, or trying a new thing by yourself.

🙂

Re club membership to race, iirc, in England and Wales this only applies to tt ing under ctt, you can road, track, cyclo cross and tt under British cycling without joining a club

In a lot of sports, including cycling, most events are still put on by local clubs.

You don't have to be in a club to compete, but if there weren't any clubs, there wouldn't be anything to compete in.

This bloke sounds like a reet bellend. If he was in my club he'd be receiving a letter in the post with a refund if his membership fee explaining that he is not a good influence on the friendly ethos of the club and that he can either change his attitude and be welcome at the club or cash the cheque and piss off out of it.

Besides, we have a website, kit, events and everything. We are clearly serious

We have something similar which began as a web forum for local MTBers who identified each other from places like here. A few very active members keep things ticking over with mid-week local night rides and the odd weekend ride. Someone mooted having a club/team jersey, someone knocked up a spiffing design, and a load of us bought them. A gang went and did the Passeport, and we fielded about 20 riders at the last Bristol Bikefest.

No formal membership, no subs, no affiliation, no committee, no politics, just a bunch of like-minded riders and a hint of being organised.

T'other half was one of the founding members of a local club for a different sport a couple of years ago and that is riven with politics-she resigned her place on the committee as who needs conflict in what is supposed to be a relaxing pastime?

You can race BC events "unattached", i.e. you aren't a member of a club, but still require a license (for insurance). Dem is de rules. License can be a day license or an annual Race license. If you are a member, then BC rules require that you wear club kit (jersey). In practice, this serves to identify who to avoid in the peloton 😉 . You can just turn up on the day and race if you want - as per a mtb race (if you can get a space), but you will be restricted to which category you can enter - Cat 4 for a novice. You can't just sign up for an Elite race.

Most of those BC events have a link to a club of some form. Imperial Racing are sponsoring the Winter Series I'm racing at the moment. Twickenham sponsor the Masters racing in the summer... To affiliate to a racing league, clubs are required to sponsor a race (to keep the league going). This of course needs volunteers. Were do you get volunteers? A club, of course 🙂

No two clubs are the same, but most road clubs are now pretty sociable places that accomodate beginners (and there are a lot of beginners!). If you find a club that isn't, choose another.

You can just turn up on the day and race if you want - as per a mtb race (if you can get a space), but you will be restricted to which category you can enter - Cat 4 for a novice. You can't just sign up for an Elite race

Seems a bit harsh if you can't but then clubs do seem to do a lot of good work, putting on events/races etc, so maybe this sort of thing is fair, keeping clubs going.

Back when I used to be in an archery club,

You were able to compete in formal competition without being a member of a club. Entrants would have "independent" next to their name rather than a club moniker. Shoots would typically have one or two independents entering; it happened but it was comparatively rare.

What was mandatory was insurance. This wasn't a large amount of money - like £3 / year compared to club fees which were maybe £10 - £15 (and included insurance).

fair enough. Again just wondering, would it be possible to start racing unaffiliated and work your way up to elite or could you win 200 cat 4 races and still not be allowed to move up without a club backing you?

You can race you can get points but you would have to join british cycling and take out a licence, can't avoid that bit. Joining a club does help in that you learn how to ride wheels and how to behave in a bunch.

As an aside, think about who organises races, you can go the Sportive route and pay through the nose or rely on the clubs to organise things. I suspect this is one of the reasons why there are so few MTB events that are sensibly priced.

@clubber

Hmm, I find the club you talk of to be entirely unfriendly and the committee (all two of them who have access to the club group email) to be entirely self serving. Also the kit is gopping 😉 nah, not really!

I'm in the same boat as big dummy above, almost literally. Although I find myself less inclined to ride with the road club as the size increases and the discipline decreases - have been taken out a few too many times, maybe I just need to push myself to ride with the fast group...

Its quite disappointing the general "whats in it for me" attitude of many rather than "what can I give back"
As per my previous post clubs can be a bit like taxation. As an older member I am too old to change so dont get benefits from coaching (much) and I seldom need transport or help with entry fees etc but I do occasionally help those that do and I am at the top end of the subscriptions scale so I pay the most. This means kids and those less well off can benefit from reduced subs

Instead of thinking up innovative ways to bypass paying club subs maybe you should think about supporting the sport you all love so much and helping clubs to increase participation and access.

Surfer, half the posts here aren't self serving, they're questioning whether club membership is required to increase participation. Politics, elitism, cliques all exist in (some) clubs and serve to deter new members. After a 20 year hiatus I've returned to road riding. Everything I've heard about the local club (and being totally blanked by an entire group when riding in opposite direction) reinforces all my negative stereotypes of road clubs, so I haven't joined and ride alone or with a couple of like minded mates. Accessible is exactly what they don't appear to be.

Surfer, half the posts here aren't self serving,

I was referring to the other half

they're questioning whether club membership is required to increase participation

I dont know if many are interested in increasing "participation" more how can I get what I want without joining a club.
I would never tell anyone to join a club and fortunately for me I dont need to be in one as running requires little infrastructure however I want the next generation to enjoy the support/coaching and camaraderie that I have enjoyed. Clubs got most sports to the participation level that we see know we should support them and work to rid them of some of the personalities that we all agree should be barred!

Surfer +1

Clubs certainly present their challenges but also have many benefits. Sometimes it reminds me of an extended family - occasional rows, some personalities that are a bit 'challenging', but a huge amount of support and activities.

Do we need clubs? Personally, I think yes. When I started road cycling I'd see lots of others out riding, but stopping them in the road to say 'hi, can I join you for a ride' would have been a bit weird! Being part of an established club means that I have access to a regular group ride (at a level which suits me), a whole range of events from TT's, to races, to Audaxes, support, encouragement, advice, and lots of friendly banter (plus I now know where all the best cafes are 🙂 )

But I also now give back a lot - I organise the regular intermediate Saturday rides, promote women's cycling opportunities, volunteer to marshal at club TT's and races, and for my sins am on the club committee.

Could all that happen without a club? No. Are clubs perfect? No. But they are a great way of providing a massive amount to the cycling community, are open to all (you don't have to be someone's mate to know what's going on and take part), and are fun, friendly places.

Just remember to give as well as to take 🙂

pjt201 - Member
@clubber

Hmm, I find the club you talk of to be entirely unfriendly and the committee (all two of them who have access to the club group email) to be entirely self serving. Also the kit is gopping nah, not really!

😉

Your subs have just gone up by a factor of 10x. That'll learn you...

I organise the regular intermediate Saturday rides, promote women's cycling opportunities, volunteer to marshal at club TT's and races, and for my sins am on the club committee.

I am in awe 😯

Instead of thinking up innovative ways to bypass paying club subs

surfer - I don't do much, there are many, many people who put a lot more into the club than I do, especially all of the 'boring' behind-the-scenes stuff - everything from admin to risk assessments for TT's etc etc!

If nothing else, I am now far more aware of the huge contribution a minority of club members make so that the majority of us can enjoy riding our bikes 🙂

Sometimes it does get a bit difficult when so many people join the club and think that paying a few quid 'entitles' them to have everything then provided without any help from them. Getting volunteers to help with events can sometimes a be a bit like trying to get blood out of a stone! But anyone who does volunteer usually finds it really enjoyable, and certainly builds friendships within the club.

Not sure if I was included in that, but I wasn't doing that, someone seemed to suggest that clubs effectively were the gatekeepers of racing and I was questioning it. Sounds like it isn't the case. I think from the start my posts were broadly positive about clubs

No DONK I wasnt having a pop at you.

I did suggest that clubs were extremely important in running as there are a number of events that are more easily accesible via clubs such as regional cross country races then the Northern/inter counties and National XC races. I am not sure if the last few are club only but given that they only exist due to the hard work of those clubs that organise and marshal at them then they should be.
Certain road relays (which are some of the most competitive events in the calendar) are club only however you can turn up a couple of times a year in Sutton park and see some the greatest athletes in the world rubbing shoulders with old club members like me then thats a great thing in my book.

In my other sport, running, I did my own thing for years before taking the plunge. I thought I was unclubbable, but can honestly say that I've got involved in all sorts of stuff I wouldn't otherwise have done, made some good friends and had a blast. Some of my favourite things are better in a club - internal champs, cross country leagues (you can run as a guest), British fell relays, etc. Organising a race takes a bit of time, but when you see 2000 people excited on the start line and elated/knackered at the finish, it's nice to have been a part of it.