[Closed] Club politics - when it gets personal

Bombers and wee

TBH If it is a private club why not use your procedures to get rid of him?
He may take some folk with him though and it may be tough for a while but it will get easier

I doubt anything you do will calm or soothe the individual though

Resign and let somebody else take the reins,

when things turned nasty and he started to [s]push[/s] [b]assault[/b] my husband and got aggressive

Police....

As above, kick him out.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant

I'd suggest a message to all members, saying along the lines of:

"we know that there has been some dissatisfaction aired and allegations made, we would request that anyone with a problem put them in writing to the committee and will delegate a group of independent members who are not on the committee to look into any allegations properly, and publish their results for all to see"

depends how political you want to get.

Two approaches that I can see;

1) you and your husband stay 'above it all'. don't get involved in any discussion he starts unless asked a direct, factual, question. be seen to be behaving well.

2) oust him. try not to do this directly - get other members who you feel are on your side to front up any requests for him to be warned/banned. there must be club rules about behaviour towards other members of the club and if he's clearly in breach of them then he's bang to rights.

Be aware he may also be trying to use option 2 against you.

He's clearly being disruptive and unless he feels he has significant support from other members of the club I can't see what he hopes to gain.

It does feel a bit like Fred on here though - constant disruption until banned and then continue sniping from the outside subsequently. You may be in for a long haul 🙁

It's a shame when everyone really just wants to enjoy a hobby.

And/or kick him out, then send a message to all members stating that there has been inaccurate rumour-spreading, and that all financial, procedural and other matters have been and will be run in an honest and trustworthy manner. Any member with any concerns is welcome to inspect all records as necessary.

Then move on.

My first reaction would be to kick him out as well. Getting in a physical arguement with another club member is good reason enough IMO. If I was in this club I'd be sick of this guy already. What are the arguements for keeping him in?

IME every club goes through this at some time. It's never pretty.

If you've got a constitution then you can get all formal and look at complaint/diciplinary procedures, but that can sometimes seem a bit authoritarian for a friendly group. You can continually and publicly debunk their claims and grumbles by running things as openly as possible - do you produce a set of accounts each year for the club to see, publish committee meeting minutes etc. That tends to get rid of money issues, decision making etc. Or just accept that you've got a member who's a PITA and is going to make a lot of noise and add to everyone's workload when they're already undoubtedly putting in more effort than most realise just to keep the club going.

Aye, that's sounding like assault. Time to eject the individual?

What good will continuing as you are achieve?

We have thought about kicking him out but feel that he may make things difficult for us if we do that and I don't want to resign as that what he wants and I don't want to give him the satisfaction. My husband and myself are some of the founder members so don't feel ready to let go yet. after the head cam complaint we sent him a written warning and he had a discussion with my husband were he told him that he was what was wrong with the club. We are debating sending him a 2nd warning to tell him that we don't condone aggressive behaviour.
We do have a constitution and club accounts get discussed openly at the AGM. We do everything by the book but i think that there could be something happening behind the scenes which is making him like this. Before this happened we got on well with him but now he has a hatred for us which is making me uncomfortable

Woah! That goes way and above any club politics and pettiness I've ever encountered!

2 points of consideration - 1 ) How are other members of club reacting to it? If they're fed up with it too then if there's a committee member who isn't 'in on it/one of them' etc. then ask they take lead for objectivity etc. Better if someone else suggests he be bombered to death and buried on the moors than you, make it looks less personal.

2 ) How much do you care? If you're not getting supported, back up, and if other members of club are letting it go on uncontested, stand down, go about your life. If the other members are half decent they'll act at that point, but it doesn't sound like it's going to stop. He almost certainly has a mad little plan in his head, and sounds like he's only at action point E.

EDIT: ah, pipped to it, I think you need someone else on your committee to get involved then.

The sound of those PMs really irk me as well. What is he hoping to achieve exactly?

At next committee meeting put all the cards on the table (that you have proof of not what you have heard second hand or by inuendo), ask the committee how they believe things should be resolved as things obviously aren't working as they are.

With other members of the committee involved invite him to a meeting to address what ever issues he may have, make a structure for the meeting giving both sides opportunity to state their issues. Once these have been raised agree a time for a second meeting so that each side can prepare correct reponses to each accusation/problem that has risen (make sure this structure is known by all concerned before starting).

If its as you say and he is in the wrong the committee should back you and either a strongly worded letter signed by all committee members warning of his future behaviour should be sent, or an outright ban could be imposed depending on the outcome of the meetings.

At each meeting make sure there are independant observers making notes/taking minutes that should be agreed on by both parties.

If the above doesn't work get the bombers out and wee in his shoes........

I think that the risk of kicking him out, even if you're totally justified in doing so (and you are!) is that he will turn this into you silencing him

Like I say, if he's got allegations, then he should put them in writing to be investigated, if he fails to do so, then he's no longer got an argument and loses all credibility.

Woah! That goes way and above any club politics and pettiness I've ever encountered!

And me, he sounds bitter to the core. ditch the club and re-start without him perhaps... 💡

I do like the sound of owning him with bombers and I'll get my boy to wee in his shoes. We do have the support of the committee and other members and have had a meeting on how to deal with this. In fact some members who arent regulars turned up in case things were to turn nasty and I think he thought twice about saying something as most of the committee were there in force ready to shoot down any onslaught he was thinking of saying

something happening behind the scenes which is making him like this

Almost certainly. Get him really drunk then start an argument, that should get it all spilling out.

Hats off to you for sticking with it. Think I'd have sacked it off in preference of riding my bike a while ago.

EDIT Re: your above post. Maybe, just maybe, a TnR option might a way to go, it sounds like he's got himself painted into a corner, too proud to stand down and admit he's made himself look silly. Maybe get another committee member to suggest "something's gone horribly wrong, and its now juts arguing for arguing's sake, There isn't actually anyone who agrees with you and you probably know that, but we could just let it go, move on, Say no more about it and get one with riding bikes." And if says no, bombers to death and a hole on the moors, he sounds like he knows too much. 😉

Some people just can't handle not being in control. It's deep rooted and instinctive and they don't necessarily even recognise it within themselves. This guy might well be like that. If so, you're never going to win. Bombers!!!!

Some people just can't handle not being in control. It's deep rooted and instinctive and they don't necessarily even recognise it within themselves

this. and he has a small penis.

IME their tactic is to keep complaints just below the radar. If you take the formal approach it momentarily fizzles out. Then after a little while it will start up again from another angle.

[img] [/img]

A new patio perhaps?

Life is way too short as it is. Tell him to bugger off, or just leave the club.

Sounds like a lot of hassle for something that should just be for fun. Sort out your prioritys, otherwise you will be in for a load of more hassle/issues/crap.

Why do you even need a club to have fun ? Just have fun with likeminded mates.

If he thinks he has a grievance and you want to keep him, invite him to your next meeting to put his allegations and evidence to the committee. Do it on the understanding this is his one and only chance. Deal with the issues raised. However, make it clear, if he continues to behave in a manner after this that is prejudicial to the club, he will be expelled.

If you don't wish to do the above, table his behaviour at the next meeting and vote on his expulsion (or other remediation if that suits you better ). Don't piss around with him, he sounds like poison.

Well if you have the support of the rest of the committee then either give him a final warning or just kick him out now (I'd go with the latter). He's given you enough grounds when he confronted your husband and as others have witnessed his behaviour and support you I can't say I'd be worried about any comeback from kicking him out.
Also send out an email to all the members explaining the decision clearly as no doubt he'll continue spamming them after he's ejected.

If you do boot him out, you'll also have to make it clear he's not welcome as a guest during club activities otherwise he may still show up and be a pain.

Thankyou you've all made good suggestions and I'll show this to my husband when he gets home. I really don't and won't be forced to leave the club because of this individual and at the weekend when I let off steam and threaten to leave I got told that was not to happen and he is in the wrong. The club to us is our baby we started it 10 years ago and it has been going from strength to strength with new members joining all the time. We have also made some good mates through starting this up so I'm not going to let him destroy all that.
He is a military man who has been a member of the TA and has been a carer for his elderly Mother who I've been told shes been having lengthy hospital stays so this could be affecting his state of mind. What is upsetting for me is he is directing his anger at my husband and my instinct is to protect him as he would do for me. If he wasn't to target any individuals I would let this go over my head.

Yes - if he's so in the wrong, it must be unpleasant for other club members as well.

Canvass their opinions and if you have their back-up get him out. Stress to the others that the other option is to dissolve the club or someone else take the reins.

Otherwise remember you started this thing(presumably)because it was something you wanted to do and found enjoyable. If it's not enjoyable any more, then it's time to wave goodbye.

Good luck - it's a classic case of one pillock ruining it for everyone else, but that's life.

Can't you leave the club and just do events as recreational activity with your friends from the club?

A good reason to stay in the club is the trips they put on. We have trips away every month and its one of the most enjoyable aspects of the club. I'm hoping that he wont sign up for any trips away as I'm sure he'll spend the whole weekend slagging us off and its as if hes got an obsession as its all he goes on about. The important thing is we have support from committee and non-committee members who all said 'what a dick' and I don't see why I should turn around and say goodbye when its him that has the problem it should be bye bye for him.

Above advice is all good stuff.

One further thing: you seem concerned with this person's actions, rather than the effect on the rest of the club. I imagine they're all pretty fed up with his behaviour, too - people tend to take part in these things for fun, not arguments and grumpiness.

Concentrate on you husband and other fellow clubmates' wellbeing first, him second - otherwise it becomes about him, and not the original ideal of the club.

I've had similar run-ins, and some people just like complaining. Don't take it personally - more often than not, they're complaining about their own inability to influence something than any shortcomings on your part. We call those people bell-ends.

It sounds like you and your husband have been doing a bang-up job making people happy for a decade. Don't let one idiot spoil it.

Repressed homosexual and he fancies the pants off your old fella? Or the other way round, he fancies the pants off you and is jealous?

Maybe..... 😉

when he's in the cafe or toilet on a ride, let both his tyres down and then when he comes out say 'ooh that's unfortunate, 2 punctures! (try not to singger) we'll ride on and you catch us up, byeeee' - then cycle a different way than planned.

[Repressed homosexual and he fancies the pants off your old fella? Or the other way round, he fancies the pants off you and is jealous?]

Yuck! especially after seeing his taste in ties and high waisted trousers. Unfortunately I cannot let down his tyres as he is not really a cyclist and the bike he does ride is £150 forecourt job so letting down the tyres would probably improve it. He does walking and climbing. I guess I could let go of the rope 😉

Have a chat with him about his behaviour with a load of slack out then.
Ask him if he wants to be on the committee again, that'll probably shut him up. We had an issue with a troublemaker in the running club and asked for his help sorting out the event he was suddenly such an expert on. Never heard anything else from him 🙂

Just tell us where he is and then fuggedaboudit.

[img] [/img]

Lots of climbing clubs have this or similar problems. Good advice above - do it by the book with independent scrutiny to ensure that you can give him the heave-ho (or prompt his hissy fit departure) without looking like it's personal.

Pretty much every club I've been in that gets large or formal enough to have a constitution and elected committee is like this. And even though it may be only one dick stirring things up, it splits the general membership in to 2 factions.

With us it got the the point we said sod it, and all quit the committee, knowing full well that there'll never be contested elections (there's alway N people standing for N or N+1 places), so we have about 50% "friendly" people on the committee. We also knew that the dick would either totally screw up the club, or do absolutely booger all. We remain members solely to be able to call an EGM. Fortunately, so far, he's done booger all, just like pretty much everyone else that complained about committee not doing anything.

One day, it will be EGM or mass defection and create a new club.

And any club I ever help create will only ever be "a social group of people with a common interest".

I've seen this as well. There's usually one in every club/group. Normally a sociopath with a big chip on their shoulder. Once they've decided to be openly hostile there's not much you can do about it except starve them of attention which will hurt them as what they really want is attention. It might not have a nice outcome though as these types usually have a short fuse to go with their sense of injustice and fragile ego.

Decide on whether its worth it first. Personally I ride bikes for fun not to deal with other people's bullshit.

Cycling clubs hey, they do seem to cause a lot of handbags.

Keep it simple and theres no problem.

ex military with elderly mother issues-- hmmm-- sounds like a borderline psycho- -- get out fast.....

I'm wondering what kind of "club" this is? Jealousy, headcams, trips away...

Keys in a bowl?

Tell him to get a life and tell your husband to punch his lights out?

Its a multi-activity club so covers walking, biking, climbing etc. We have monthly trips camping and staying in mountaineering huts so no keys in bowls happening there unless there is something happening that I don't know about and with regards to punching his lights out it would probably be me rather than my husband as he is calmest person I know

Common issue. Seen it and been in it before. Rise above it, do everything to keep the club together and take every opportunity to make him look like a doucehbag.

thanks everyone for your advice. My husband seems to still be affected by the confrontation on Saturday and is losing sleep over it and its not great timing with work stresses adding to the mix. We are going to have a committee meeting in a couple of weeks and I'm sure this will be discussed. I'm away on a trip this weekend and will be having fun riding my bike and I'm sure this subject will be discussed. At the moment my gut reaction is get rid and block any means of communication with him. I guess only time will tell

Losing sleep over a club you say? Time to resign or sort the matter out head on. This should be fun right?

Maybe I am too much of a simple Simon, but surely you can just kick the twit out? Done.

Did I understand your original post properly - has he now left the club but is sniping from outside directly to members?

In which case you have proven that there is no fraud etc (what seems to be his point), if members are happy with that then I would just ignore further jibes from him. As above he seeks attention. I suspect his jibes will become more irrational in trying to get a response, in which case the real facts will speak for themselves to members.

I read as having left the committee but still a club member. Some people I know, who I actually thought for a while could be the OP, are involved in a similar local club. There's seems to be dying a bit of a death, the cycling bit anyway, as it seems to work on very much a KeepUpOr****Off mantra, as such I've never been tempted to join, or ride with them tbh. In seversal ways their club doesn't seem as much for them any more. Got me thinking.

I think any one setting a club up should set it up for 7 years. Then Disband. If a group of the people from the first club then want to set up a new club, do so. If I ever set up a club I'd be tempted to do it like this. Social dynamics, allegiances, tolerations, afections are all subject to change... trying to force them can often result in bitterness and frinction.*

*doesn't always take anywhere near as long as 7 years though.

Sorry to hear of your situation OP - doesn't feel right that one person can make the whole group suffer...

I met a few people like this and generally found the only effective long term solution is to remove them from your life entirely - any contact at all gives them an opportunity to manipulate. (I posted a thread earlier this week on the same topic and the advice overall was to walk away...)

Either way, I find it much easier these days to deal with such people after reading [url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/In-Sheeps-Clothing-Understanding-Manipulative/dp/1935166301/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top ]In Sheep's Clothing[/url]

It's very good at helping you spot their games/attacks and how to respond to them in a way which keeps you clear of their influence. It also points out that your own behaviour can make you a target (as your husband seems to be) - and therefore you can avoid being the target in the first place...

So good luck, you're not going mad and you'll find plenty of people are unhappy with his behaviour too, just less willing to get involved (these people are generally pretty intimidating) but when you fight back you'll probably find you have more support than you expect...

Yes to clarify a few points he was a committee member who at the time was well thought of until he made a tit of himself at the AGM he then joined the club which I was surprised at but Husband says give him a chance. The club isn't dying a death in fact far from it and we are very supportive of members of all abilities and never leave anyone behind. So far everyone i've spoken to has thought the same and the fact that no-one responded to the message he sent says alot as they are not bothered and realise its another pointless rant. Anyway committee meeting will be next week so we can discuss this further.
In the past we've had people trying to cause trouble and when they realise they are getting no where they disappear so lets hope he does the same.

Daft question but why is he still part of the club? How is he PMing club members?

Issue a statement to club members saying that he has a grievance with the club that he can't seem to resolve and has now taken to attack the club. Offer the members the opportunity to examine the club records/accounts to show that things are not being wasted, etc. so the members know the truth.

He joined at the AGM paid his subs we thought that once he had said what he had to say he would just get on with things and go for the walking trips as he used to. We don't mind if he has a problem its just the way he goes about it. If he got in contact with one of us and expressed his concerns first then we would address any issues. We have a forum on our website so to try and and stir things by messaging all members and then message the committee afterwards is wrong. Plus after seeing him in aggressive mode I just don't want to be in the same space as him

I imagine your husband's calm approach infuriates the nutter as in his (nutters) eyes your husband doesn't think the nutter is worth responding to. They are called nutters for a reason...

Accusing the committee of fraud, assaulting your husband, why allow him to stay? Call an EGM, explain the situation to the members, then take a vote on banning the nutter. Better still create an amendment to the club constitution regarding gross misconduct of members, then chuck him out. This has the advantage of being in place if the same situation occurs in the future with another nutter.

Good luck :-)(from someone who will never go on another club committee)

someone who will never go on another club committee

will never ever be a newsletter editor again either, although fortunately the web has just about rendered them history. 3 years of appealing for articles, stories, events to put in the calendar, and the total contribution from membership could be counted on the digits of 1 hand after having all 4 fingers amputated! and that's from a membership stating what they wanted to see in the newsletter ffs! oh and that 1 article was some guy using it for eventual commercial purposes.

I'd at least send out some kind of communication stating that abusive behaviour by members to other members (and guests at events) will not be tolerated. Then at least the guilty party can't say they haven't been warned.

Had he broken the rules of conduct? A motion to eject him from the club then. Or assurances of better conduct in future.

Seen this happen as a mod elsewhere, at first thought it was a bit of prior friction between two new members with some history, the reasonable one and the more vocal one, but with a bit of research the reasonable one turned out to be Tw*T no other way to describe the person and the vocal one was just being really open and honest about their feelings about the Tw*t.

So my tip is talk to people no doubt they will/are/have been in other groups and might have had prior experience of this person and this person will have followed a similar pattern, before people have got fed up of them and given them the heave ho.

is this a swingers club? lot of 'weekends away' 😆

any chance of more cats drawings & less dogs?

The next incident is he sent a PM to all club members accusing us of fraud

If he threatens you, get the Police involved and a solicitor who can handle the accusation.

Fair point, you could just scare him off by saying you're talking to a solicitor about taking action regarding the fraud accusation.

I recall a recent instance where a member wasn't happy with decisions of the commitee.
The commitee declined to accept the aforementioned individual's membership renewal. 😛

He's a club member at the moment. If he thinks fraud is going on, it's an issue that needs airing and countering. You stoop to his level by getting solicitors involved. A degree of openess and honesty and being seen to be fairer than fair means you come out of it shinier. Ask him to make public his claims very specifically and you'll address them - he won't.

Isn't emailing other members with accusations rather public , even in a small club?

I wouldn't stand for it. Just ask someone to audit the accounts and then expel him for misconduct.

Yes you're right, ask for specifics and counter them calmly. Even a dick gets to ask questions in a democracy, show everyone he's a dick by being open 🙂