[Closed] Clearly the government were right not to dredge

there is a video on flagsomerset facebook page which will show the extent of flooding close up ... about 40 houses shown in just one short video . [url=

Somerset local by the way

[quote=teamhurtmore ]But increasing interception levels and slowing run-off higher up is [b]far more[/b] important [s]as is[/s] [b]than[/b] dredging!!

FTFY - as explained above, dredging makes little difference to river capacity once you're in the flood plains, and is not really a significant factor in flooding.

[quote=MoreCashThanDash ]I've only skimmed this thread, but we need to cull the badgers as they haven't dredged the rivers which would have flooded anyway?

I think the badgers put a hole in something and let all the water in when they moved the goalposts.

Possibly only 40 houses low enough. I drove past an awful lot of floods today, and it was fairly obvious that most of the house builders through the centuries had the foresight to put the houses on higher ground, even the farm houses. Didn't see a single flooded house (of course there may have been some out of sight).

Edited - sympathy to those affected, but dredging isn't any sort of sustainable solutions and Pickles should be ashamed of his comments.

50 then.

I thought they were drained by some dutch engineer a few hundred years ago?

Someone posted this earlier in the week. An interesting read:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/13/flooding-public-spending-britain-europe-policies-homes

Mr Pickles has forgotten that advice is just that. The minister is there to take the decision and see that policy is then implemented. Policy to date has been to cut the budget and appoint an Environment minister that does not know his brief.

aracer - Member
FTFY - as explained above, dredging makes little difference to river capacity once you're in the flood plains, and is not really a significant factor in flooding.

True I was being polite 😉

Policy to date has been to cut the budget and appoint an Environment minister that does not know his brief.

He seems to know exactly what his job is. Under Treasury rules they weren't allowed to fund dredging as the maximum sum they were allowed to allocate wasn't enough to do the work.....

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/feb/09/floods-environment-agency-chris-smith-hits-back

Well I have been on the end of Woppit like abuse from the enlightened masses that believe the human blimp Pickles and his ilk. I am getting pretty fed up with it.

Pickles also said they were going to put on bigger trains and use planes 😯 laughable

"call me Dave" is where I was working on Thursday funnily enough everyone was really nice to us down there. I wonder what other crap he will promise to appease his electorate.

One of my Environment Agency friends was publicly and loudly harangued as 'lazy and useless' by a member of the public on Friday. Interesting timing as he was actually attending an incident at the time in the vociferous individual's village. Not quite sure what the gentleman was trying to achieve tbh.

knottie8 - Member

there is a video on flagsomerset facebook page which will show the extent of flooding close up ... about 40 houses shown in just one short video . video

I feel sorry for the 40 houses that have flooded, but its still only 40 houses. The ammount of government money being spent on on them is a bit ridiculous.

It really isn't a big area that is flooded in the levels, and the whole blame game that is going on is ridiculous, the media are making it what it is. It's a flood plain anyway, why the surprise?

[img] [/img]

I think the figure for flooded houses on the Levels is up to about the 60 mark now - as said above, houses on the area are usually on the highest ground around which can be as high as a dizzy 5 metres or so!

I wouldn't want to dismiss the very real distress and huge inconvenience - Muchelney (about 4 miles away from me) has been cut off from road access for about 6 weeks now - but how much is it worth spending? Even the agricultural land is pretty poor.

Pigface - Member
Well I have been on the end of Woppit like abuse

Excuse me?

"Since the start of December, 5,000 properties have flooded, including 60 on the Somerset Levels."

[url] http://www.somersetcountygazette.co.uk/news/10994435.SOMERSET_FLOODS__Villagers_flee_homes_on_Levels/?ref=var_0 [/url]

There is no doubt in my mind the flooding has been made worse by budget cuts and lack of maintenance spending. Comparable to the situation on our roads which are littered with potholes or cheap temporary raids bound to fail again soon. Comparable to the issues at Heathrow where the cash strapped owners cannot afford proper snow clearing machines. Preventative maintenance is easy to brush under carpet, fingers crossed it doesn't rain/snow/... and if it does blame "freak weather"

actual floods nowhere near as bad as the 1% flood zone shown on the EA flood maps. Building a house in those areas knowing that it will flood at some point in the life of the house is pretty daft.

http://maps.environment-agency.gov.uk/wiyby/wiybyController?x=330500.0&y=137500.0&topic=floodmap&ep=map&scale=9&location=Bridgwater,%20Somerset&lang=_e&layerGroups=default&distance=&textonly=off#x=335573&y=134867&lg=1,&scale=5

There is no doubt in my mind the flooding has been made worse by budget cuts and lack of maintenance spending

and is this informed by actual science or the hysterical media reports?

If you get rain at >200% average you're going to get some flooding in flood plains. You can dredge all you like, but it will still flood. NB At high tide the rivers can't dump anything from low levels as the sea is above the flood level....

[img] [/img]

Preventative maintenance is easy to brush under carpet, fingers crossed it doesn't rain/snow/... and if it does blame "freak weather"

So how often should we expect disruption for freak weather? What's the benchmark?

Even the agricultural land is pretty poor.

I though flooding was good for renewing arable land?

The main road SE out of our villages is flooded to a foot deep along a fair chunk of its length, and we're sat atop 120M of chalk. It's just saturated and the only place to go is downhill now.

Footflaps +1 - If it rains an awful lot, I don't think any spending is going to help to be honest, regardless of where you are in the country (and anyone who thinks the levels is some sort of poshie Southern enclave clearly hasn't been there. That's Chipping Norton you're thinking of :-))

Some numbers for you.

635km2 (18%) of Somerset is below sea level.

In 1919 280km2 of this land was flooded. Today 65km2 is flooded. 200km2 has been protected by raised flood defences and pumping.

Sadly this has become an unedifying game of political infighting.

Interesting stats there pictonroad.

In terms of the actual science I had to laugh at

Dame Julia Slingo said the variable UK climate meant there was "no definitive answer" to what caused the storms. "But all the evidence suggests there is a link to climate change," she added.

Open ended gobbledygook - and from a chief scientist!!!!

Why is it gobbeldeygook?

Even the agricultural land is pretty poor.

I though flooding was good for renewing arable land?

This

An anual flood onto the flood plains would be a good thing for the fertility of the land, and if it happens every year we can plan for it, rather than try to prevent it and then be left up shit [s]creek[/s] lake when it does inevitably flood in freak years.

Too much building on flood plains is the issue (although ironically not too much in Somerset where very few properties have flooded).

You'll never be able to identify any one event as being definitively part of the underlying stochastic distribution or part of a longer term trend. Possibly you could give a confidence level that is is due to one or the other, but that's all.

I though flooding was good for renewing arable land?

Perhaps, but most of the levels isn't arable, it's largely pasture for web-footed sheep and cows. Also, this isn't a nice distribution of alluvial silt over the land, it's more of a huge long-lived dirty puddle. Under the water the land will now be airless and thoroughly compacted.

"Sam Notaro is one of the people left: he is continuing his desperate efforts to save his £1 million new build house from the floods."[img] [/img]

Clearly he should have built his house where his garden now is.

Yeah more money than sense that chap with his £1m house. I wonder how insurance works if you knowingly build a house in a flood zone on a flood plain?

I wonder how insurance works if you knowingly build a house in a flood zone on a flood plain?

you: I'd like to claim for flood damage
insurance: here's 50p, don't spend it all at once

the annex with the solar panels looks like it could be an indoor pool, oh the ironing.

the ironing is the least of his worries by the looks of it.

So we need to plant trees on hills but landowners won't because of the EU subsidies. What is the solution? More nuanced subsidies?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26111598

'Swollen Thames threatens thousands of Conservative voters'...

[i]"It's starting to back up into the toilet - it's like going back to the dark ages,"[/i]

So we need to plant trees on hills but landowners won't because of the EU subsidies. What is the solution? More nuanced subsidies?

Less EU...

Now Surry voters are affected just wait for the powers at be to spring into action. You won't hear any mps talking about sacrifice of people's land and homes for the greater good in Surry I'm sure.

You couldn't make it up!

Having started the whole 'pass the buck' / blame game by blaming the EA for everything, he now wants the public's credit for stopping the blame game....

Communities Secretary Eric Pickles has rejected Labour claims the government has tried to "pass the buck" in its response to the floods crisis.

He said it was time to end the "pathetic game of who is to blame" amid reports of infighting among ministers, including Mr Pickles himself.

Yesterday they were 'so called experts' who miss lead the government and the country and today:

"My admiration for the Environment Agency exceeds no-one," he said. "It is time for all of us to work together and not to make silly party political points."

I wonder if Woppet will do a U turn like Pickles

I bet you're gripped with anticipation. I refer the Honourable Gentleman to my previous comment. Scroll up. Keep up.

On Pickles - it looks like CallMeDave has had him in for a spanking in the interim. 😆

Perhaps we should send the not so honourable mr pickles to the channel islands. I dare say with his bulk he'll have an effect similar to that of the moon and draw all the floodwater into the sea.

On Pickles - it looks like CallMeDave has had him in for a spanking in the interim.

I read that as a spanking by an intern !

I'm quite impressed that Chris Smith has stood his ground and made Pickles look like a fool (well OK, that's not too hard as Pickles looks like one all the time).