Usually a good rule of thumb to believe the opposite of whatever Pickles says
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26106290
😆
haven't read it but may I hazard:
"It wasn't our fault; it was them, them over there - they are entirely to blame for the situation that's got nothing to do with us"
Thinking about it, Eric Pickles would make a pretty good dam himself. Stick him on the shoreline, it'd take some hefty waves to shift him.
🙂
Bit ludicrous to blame this government, or the one before it for that matter. How could they be reasonably expected to overrule the 'expert' opinion of the EA (except with the benefit of glorious hindsight)?
If the EA had recommended dredging then been forced to shelve it due to budget cuts, then it falls at the door of the government.
Doesn't the EA recommend in line with government policy? Ie reflecting the emphasis on preventing property damage and so reducing the importance of agricultural and rural work. I suppose it depends what they're asked to recommend on- whether it's "what is most important" or "given these priorities, what do we do"
Ah, good. I see the considered opinion agrees with my knee jerk reaction 🙂
40 houses in the Levels have flooded. 400 flood in York when the Ouse overtops. Where would you spend your money?
A little harsh on Pickles I reckon,...he did find the World Cup when it got nicked after all?.
Way to get the EA on your side though eh? "We thought we were taking advice from experts, we weren't"!
Brilliant.
[i]40 houses in the Levels have flooded. 400 flood in York when the Ouse overtops. Where would you spend your money? [/i]
Protect property down South, that's what's important.
Government minister lining someone else up for a fall - no news or surprise there.
Sounds innocent enough, but just a set up to end Chris Smith's reign at the EA. A bit sad to watch really, but that's politics for you!
These people seem to know what they're talking about. They wholeheartedly agree that dredging is not the answer.
[url] http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-somerset-flooding/ [/url]
STW - never let a reasoned analysis stand in the way of childishly shouting boo at a hate figure.
They wholeheartedly agree that dredging is not the answer.
Yup.
Cameron's dredge pledge is like the badger cull. It is useless. It is counterproductive. But it keeps the farmers happy and allows the government to be seen to be doing something
I think we'll see 'Blame the EA and Lord Smith' headlines on all the Tory friendly tabloids come Monday as they jump on the scapegoat bandwagon.
I wonder how much damage to the EA the Tories will inflict now they think they have carte blanche to attack it. They'll probably suggest privatising it and look to BP and Shell to bid for running it.....
I don't really know the area but if I hazarded a guess and suggested its where a load of rich people live would I be fairly close to the mark?
Why is that relevant?
No attempts were made to vilify the EA when flooding has taken place in other areas.
Because if they were at the foot of the Pennines, CMD wouldn't be bothered as he'd assume it was somewhere foreign?
[quote=Mr Woppit ]STW - never let a reasoned analysis stand in the way of childishly shouting boo at a hate figure.
Except that as in all previous pronouncements by Pickles, it seems the instant reaction is accurate.
Presumably you also think Gove knows a lot about education?
Presume away. Can't quite see why you'd presume that. Perhaps you're a bit of a numpty.
I watched Pickles on the tellypanel today say that he admitted the government were wrong, but that they had taken advice from what were supposed to be "experts" in the EA.
Seems reasonable to me.
Interestingly, they couldn't find £5 mill to dredge, but they could find £31 mill to set up a sanctuary for the little birdies of the west country (which was the first place that Chris Smith visited when he arrived)...
[quote=Mr Woppit ]I watched Pickles on the tellypanel today say that he admitted the government were wrong, but that they had taken advice from what were supposed to be "experts" in the EA.
Seems reasonable to me.
Except that as discussed on this thread the EA experts were correct with their advice not to dredge (I have to admit I did already know that was the case - being a paddler and often out on the Severn in flood you get to appreciate how rivers actually work - the Guardian article posted above is pretty much on the ball). It is an interesting gambit to admit you're wrong when you're not though.
"reasonable" is not a word generally associated with Eric Pickles.
Do keep going though.
Seems reasonable to me.
Except that just about every expert in the field says that dedging would make next to no difference, but does damage the rivers.....
We've been told for over 10 years in the EA we're receding from the countryside and landowners have been told this. As Lord Smith said choose one the countryside or towns as we haven't the budget to do both. And as for blaming Labour our worst cuts have come under this current government.
This has all got very political and its got to the point I can't watch the BBC or SKY news as they just seem like leeches thats came out of the flood stirring the shit.
That article seems pretty comprehensive.
He went on to suggest something I never thought I would hear from his lips: "Also, we need to do more to hold water back, way back in the hills.
Well, let's do that, then.
It does beg the question - if Pickles was listening to "experts" from the EA who were telling him NOT to dredge (and telling him to hold the water back in the hills), why is he talking about dredging?
Presumably because he is being driven by the need to be seen to be doing something quickly. Which the distressed will be happy with in the short term. Cynical manipulation, then.
EDIT: I seem to recall reading way back in the '70's, that the reason the northern plains of India suffered flooding was because of deforestation of the lower slopes of the Himalayas. It might be a good idea if the politicians actually DID "learn the lessons", but I don't hold out much hope...
The EA's latest map of flooding hotspots is pretty sobering.
[img] 
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Was reading a blog by Dominic Fairman, who runs an organic farm & campsite on Bodmin Moor.
He was saying that 10yrs of re-planting the moors, & encouraging certain modes of farming has seen the Moor retain more water & therefore the rivers coping with the recent downpours. From what he was saying none of his local rivers have burst their banks because of this.
Year 8 geographers know that dredging is only one of many factors involved with flood management. Different responses required in different parts of the catchment area. But increasing interception levels and slowing run-off higher up is important as is dredging!!
They are tearing up the requirement to plant hedges at the same time. The most science-blind government since the Enlightenment 😥
Non-elected enlightened-self-interested technocracy, anyone?
Seems as if most of Worcester today is cut off due to floods, alos quite a few shropshire towns,
What will they do when sea levels rise, dredge the oceans?
I'm always interested to see how we cope when nature reminds us that we're tenants rather than Lords and masters.
Better to admit that you* caused it by not dredging than facing up to the fact that you've done sweet fa to deal with the causes of climate change
*well actually just blame the civil servants ala gove coz the coalition only accept responsibility if something works
Wouldn't expect anything else from pickles tho I was reminded of Blackadder
scoop him out and use him as a houseboat [\quote]
Still no sensible reporting in the msm about EU directives being at the heart of the problem. And the lack of "labour says" puff pieces from Auntie knows that they are well aware of where the fingers should also be pointed and they are just keeping their heads down. All part of the wonderful Blair legacy.
Ps44 - old booker is taking that in, in the S Tel. Two of his pet hates, EU and climate change in one go!!
It is absolutely mental, completely unrelated ministers wading into an issue on which they have no connection or credentials to comment. The only motivation is politicking.
All of the rivers get tide locked not too far downstream too, you can dredge all you like but when we have record high tides none of the water in the river can go anywhere and so it backs up.
Even if that weren't the case its terribly naive to look at the amount of water on the land and think "yup, dig the rivers a bit and that'd all flow away." As I said, mental. But politician mental which unfortunately means that it'll have repercussions.
I've only skimmed this thread, but we need to cull the badgers as they haven't dredged the rivers which would have flooded anyway?
I expect they'll announce an otter cull...
These people seem to know what they're talking about. They wholeheartedly agree that dredging is not the answer.http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-somerset-flooding/
An interesting set of articles but the writers all empathise with flood victims and Lord Smith didn't and wouldn't. For that alone he should be sacked I think. Just too remote, urban and disinterested in the countryside.
And for the person who suggested the Levels might be a 'rich' area; rest assured they aren't. a few commuters to Taunton and Bristol and some retirees aside its a pretty humble, unpretentious sort of place. Far enough away from London and other cities to still be properly rural.
40 houses in the Levels have flooded. 400 flood in York when the Ouse overtops. Where would you spend your money?
Which flooded village in particular were you thinking of? Do you honestly think there are only forty houses in 26 square miles of flooded countryside? 🙄
Badgers are notorious for digging setts in flood defence embankments. Its all connected..the badgers are wreaking their vengeance.
I thought fat people were jolly? He seems terribly upset most of the time.
Do you honestly think there are only forty houses in 26 square miles of flooded countryside?
Possibly only 40 houses low enough. I drove past an awful lot of floods today, and it was fairly obvious that most of the house builders through the centuries had the foresight to put the houses on higher ground, even the farm houses. Didn't see a single flooded house (of course there may have been some out of sight).
