[Closed] Clarkson 'n-word' furore!

its the constant drip drip of slurs from clakrson thats making this issue into a bigger incident than it is

Exactly. If it was out of character it would be seen differently - as it is it's just part of a pattern of boorish bigotry.

Isn't Clarkson middle class and therefore.....

"Many a true word spoken in jest......."

Like Clarkson, perhaps prejudices slip out? 😉

http://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2011/jan/05/censoring-mark-twain-n-word-unacceptable

I'm genuinely amazed that you can claim that a factual description of what someone said is the same as using a racist nursery rhyme on a light entertainment show in the first place.

Well there you go that just is what I'm getting at. JC may have used the N word in aged old rhyme, he didn't mean it as offensive but knew it could be seen as that. Oh forget it I'm genuinely amazed that you can't see he wasn't calling anyone the N word in the same ay you weren't but it's just easier not to use the word, which is why he mumbled. The outraged demand to be outraged.

He is higher up than that despite the facade

Landed gentry now iirc

THM - it was a reference to what Ernie said on another thread.

Well there you go that just is what I'm getting at.

When you said that newspapers don't use the word? 😕

Are you suggesting the nursery rhyme (which I've never even heard the racist version of until now BTW) is a work of art on the level of Mark Twain that should be celebrated/protected? (FWIW I think it's ridiculous to edit Mark Twain - before anyone starts)

I'm not even remotely 'outraged' or 'offended' - I just think Clarkson is a bellend and this is a tiny piece of extra evidence.

I'll put my hand up and say "yes" to thinking that Top Gear is pervasively racist. I don't know how much Clarkson and the other two presenters input into the script and other editorial decisions, so I don't feel informed enough to call how much of that might or might not originate from Clarkson specifically, but all three of them at the very least accept it by saying the lines.

you have to say it's a pretty much white only guest list on Top Gear out of about 210 guests since 2002 there only been 8 different black or asian faces. Sanjeev Bhaskar, Lionel Ritchie, Omid Djalili, Ian Wright, Les Ferdinand, lewis hamilton x2, Usain Bolt and Will I am (it was a quick browse through the wiki so I may have missed a few). Is that proof that Top gear is Racist, no, but it doesn't make a very good impression.

I'm not even remotely 'outraged' or 'offended' - I just think Clarkson is a bellend and this is a tiny piece of extra evidence.

So you didn't think it was racist either then. Well there you go.

Best not say black...

no...you'll get a 8 match ban if you do...

i'm not sure whether he is blatantly racist or whether he says things like this just to get a reaction from the public...be it good or bad.
there have been many times when he said something to offend people but then there have been moments when he seems to be the complete opposite...

i think James May summed him up perfectly when he described him as

He is a monumental bellend

he's one of those marmite people...either you hate him or like him...sometimes watching or listening to him is very cringe worthy but other times he is funny especially when he makes a dick of himself...usually unintentionally

i doubt he will get sacked from the show though...he makes them too much money and he knows this and it puts him in a pretty strong position..

but it's just easier not to use the word

I think we can read something into that decision as well given his past form on racial issues.

The easiest way to avoid this is to not say the rhyme or replace the word with teacher as they did when aired.

grum - Member

I'm not even remotely 'outraged' or 'offended'

Well that's a relief.

Carry on.

That's the rhyme as I've always known it and he deliberately mumbles through the word in a manner that shows he's a little embarrassed by it anyway.

Yes, I know the rhyme too, but I don't say it in public and still less on TV. He mumbled the word because he knew full well what he was doing - getting publicity and knowing the Beeb wouldn't have the balls to do anything about a top revenue sour saw

Its easier to use a different rhyme

I agree.

Like Grum I had never heard it so presumably within the vast arrays of talent there they could have picked something different yet they did not
WHY?

Ermmm! I don't know. Oh wait they did in the final cut.

Junkyard - lazarus

Like Grum I had never heard it so presumably within the vast arrays of talent there they could have picked something different yet they did not
WHY?

It is very old, it originates from a time when **** was not really an offensive word, and it undoubtedly predates Clarkson - it was never said in school playgrounds when he was a child, I'm sure of that. And TBH I think it was probably never said by children in Britain - I believe it is/was an American dipping rhyme .

I am younger than JC and British - can confirm that the rhyme in question was very common in playgrounds and elsewhere. Golliwogs toys and symbols were common place too.

Oddly/ironically/distastefully (you choose) Roberston's golliwog badges are now collectors items fetching over £1k a pop.

Was used when I was a kid I'm surprised others hadn't heard of that version.

There's a point. Those that hadn't heard of that version who then heard the video without the DM telling them what version he used, I wonder what they would have heard?

I am clarkson's age. Yes it was used in playgrounds when I was in them. Never heard ip dip dog.

Well I never heard it in my school THM. The word certainly wasn't acceptable even in a rhyme. And I've never understood the problem with golliwogs. Except that they were always naughty in the Noddy stories.

EDIT : Primary school in the 1960s in Clapham Park btw.

Heard the ip dip rhyme too.

Ddin't they try to change the name to Gollydolls instead but the image was still seen as too much?

Well he's a few years younger than me but it was in common use when I was a child.

All a bit reminiscent of the Major scene in Faulty Towers.

I'm amazed that some people used that version of eeney meany miney mo when at school - was there no supervision in your primary schools? And please don't tell me that it was deemed an acceptable word cause I can't believe that.

Don't be so PC ernie.

And please don't tell me that it was deemed an acceptable word cause I can't believe that.

Well you hadn't heard of it so you'll find it hard to believe now.

I can't remember that far back. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't've known what the word meant anyway.
My racist mum always used the golly word.

If people spent as much time and effort getting outraged about the real issues in the world and not trivial nonsense like this then the world would be a far better place.

Racism isn't a real issue?

Yes it is, and its a horrible horrible concept that make the lives of many thoroughly miserable.

But Jeremy Clarkson reciting a commonly known albeit inappropriate nursery rhyme, where he may or may not have muttered the N word is a world away from this

If you can't see the difference then I'm not going to try to explain it to you.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't've known what the word meant anyway.

I didn't have a clue what it meant and sure we thought it was a fish, no we didn't question why it had toes. 😕

I'm amazed that some people used that version of eeney meany miney mo when at school - was there no supervision in your primary schools?

You'd loved my church ran primary school. We had got told to stop playing armies when the Falklands kicked off, offcourse we didn't we just played cowboys and indians instead.

Even teachers used it...."deemed" perfectly acceptable at the time.

I even recall a friend's mother describing a hat as being "N Brown" in the 70s. We have come a long way since......

was that after doctors and nurses, drac? 😉

Well you hadn't heard of it so you'll find it hard to believe now.

I don't know what that's suppose to mean. The question I was asking was did you never play in earshot of teachers, would you not be punished for using the word ?

We're talking about 7/8 year olds not 14/15 year olds, right ?

And of course we knew/heard the word, and it wasn't acceptable.

The question I was asking was did you never play in earshot of teachers, would you not be punished for using the word ?

Yes and using it in the rhyme was fine but calling the black kid at school it would have had you severely punished. Fortunately we didn't know what the word meant in that context at that age so we didn't.

was that after doctors and nurses, drac?

Dear God no, that was for out of school.

Even teachers used it...."deemed" perfectly acceptable at the time

Even teachers used it...."deemed" perfectly acceptable at the time.

Where the **** did you go to school where teachers used the term ****......that's the word we're talking about, right ?

[i]but calling the black kid at school it would have had you severely punished. [/i]

We called him George.

We called him George.

Alex in our case or was it Alec? But yeah not the N word.

It was an "approved" school obviously.

The term was not used widely nor was it directly condoned. But that rhyme was certainly common place and used without sanction ([i]and in ignorance[/i]) without malice when chosing things.

Not defending it, just equally amazed that people find what was IME a common occurrence so surprising. Anyway we digress...

[i]Anyway we digress...[/i]

We'd have never got 200+ posts if we didn't 🙂

The term was not used widely nor was it directly condoned.

You said it was : [i]"deemed" perfectly acceptable at the time.[/i] Even by teachers !

Unless you went to school in the 1940s in Mississippi or something I find that extremely hard to believe.

Fine, don't believe me. But it was deemed a perfectly acceptable rhyme and adults used it as much as kids. Pls don't confuse rhyme and word used in isolation.

teamhurtmore is right. It was in common use. We were ignorant of any concept of racism. As I said before the only black faces I knew were coal miners until I went to the big city (Sheffield!) as a student. Oh wait, there were some. The Black and White Minstrels on the telly. I wonder what happened to them.

But no, it's not a rhyme or a word I would condone these days. Mind you it wasn't broadcast so no harm has been done has it?

I even recall a friend's mother describing a hat as being "N Brown" in the 70s. We have come a long way since......

Some people have...

adults used it as much as kids

That's not we're talking about is it ? Of course adults used it as much as kids. The question is did teachers use it as much children ? I don't recall ever hearing a teacher use it. It wasn't "deemed perfectly acceptable" as you suggest.

Mind you it wasn't broadcast so no harm has been done has it?

Is casual racism acceptable as long as it is not broadcast on television?

We were ignorant of any concept of racism

That's staggering. I have been aware of racism throughout my entire life. There's never been a time when people didn't understand the concept of racism. Just look at the struggle against fascism for proof of that.

Yes. But we had different experiences or recollections. It must be an age thing! 😉

Is casual racism acceptable as long as it is not broadcast on television?

The honest answer is that it depends on who it's aimed at.

"No" if it refers to dark skinned immigrants or children of recent (last fifty years) immigrants, and Jews.

"Totally fine" if it's directed at Roma, people from Eastern Europe generally, Muslims (when based specifically on religion rather than skin pigmentation or country of origin) or Gypsies and Travellers.

...in my experience.

Just look at the struggle against fascism for proof of that.

America fought against fascism, and yet had racial segregation. After the allies had taken Paris the new French government insisted no black soldiers took part in the celebration parades.