MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
As Im sure you know, most evangelicals will support a homophobic and misogynistic biblical understanding of the bible and they will support that as if it were a fact rather than an interpretation.
I've no idea if that's true but from the number of women who are Evangelistic style Christians I doubt it. However let's assume it is true, I very much doubt this group's chosen message to a mixed gender group of primary school kids in the short time they'll have is going one of hatred towards women and gays. Especially since 95pc (IME) of primary school staff are women.
Get a grip.
I’ve no idea if that’s true but from the number of women who are Evangelistic style Christians I doubt it.
If you follow UK news headlines it is pretty difficult to have missed the fact that the Evangelical wing of the Anglican Church has been fighting against equal representation for women and gay people in the CofE for many years. It's not exactly a secret, it's part of their mission statement!
So you admit you have little understanding of evangelical christian theology and what some of these evangelical church’s teach as their mission to christianity. That explains your reply.
I’ve no idea if that’s true but from the number of women who are Evangelistic style Christians I doubt it. However let’s assume it is true, I very much doubt this group’s chosen message to a mixed gender group of primary school kids in the short time they’ll have is going one of hatred towards women and gays. Especially since 95pc (IME) of primary school staff are women.
Get a grip.
I don't think they will come into school trying to tell all the kids that being gay is wrong and you will go to hell if you are gay. Get a grip.
But I do like to stand by my principles, and if a group that hold those beliefs are trying to get into schools to spread any kind of message I will oppose it.
Would you let a radical Muslim terrorist into your kids school, if they promised to only talk about the "good bits" of their beliefs?
I don’t think they will come into school trying to tell all the kids that being gay is wrong and you will go to hell if you are gay. Get a grip.
+1.
As an update, the school has sent out this follow up letter.
Living Fire is a Bible-believing church, it is run by myself *** (I have children at ***) and my husband, together with another couple, * and ** **. * works for the Church of England here in ** and is a Link Worker at the ***-based family support charity, Venture.
Members of the church include * and * *** who also run clubs at ** ** and have children within the school. ** *, * * and * ****** will be part of the team coming in to do the workshops at ** **.
The reference to the years of experience in the letter refers to decades of combined experience as teachers and volunteers working with children. We are also all DBS checked.
The Church itself is new so there is no formal literature or website but if parents want to find out more about their beliefs, the best suggestion is to have a look on the Evangelical Alliance Basis of Faith website. The EA Basis of Faith is completely in line with the ethos of the Church of England, and has Anglican, Protestant, Baptist and Methodists amongst its many member organisations, who subscribe to it. It can be found on https://www.eauk.org/about-us/basis-of-faith.
Rev * ******* also works closely with ** and is looking forward to joining the workshops.
Kind regards, Mrs * ****
I have also written to the head expressing my concerns. I am still waiting for the reply.
**** of a lot of swearing for a religious type
and my husband
So at least one of the misogynistic homophobes must be female or gay or theoretically both. 😀
The EA Basis of Faith is completely in line with the ethos of the Church of England, and has Anglican, Protestant, Baptist and Methodists amongst its many member organisations, who subscribe to it.
This is quite telling as the C of E is having quite an internal battle about how women and LGBTQ+ people are looked upon within the church. Some more liberal C of E members feel it
is being taken over by more extreme christians, sometimes funded by Evangelical churches in the USA. So anti abortion, against women priests or church leaders and anti LGBTQ+ teaching. This is not the EA working with the CofE. There are right-leaning members of all christian churches, which is why there will be some Anglican, Baptist or Methodist members who subscribe to the EA, these do not necessarily represent the whole churches.
Hmm, sending a letter like that - feel need to defend why they are there.
Sorry, they have no place in a school. Sounds like they are looking for members. Our RC primary wouldn't have any 'groups' like that in.
Genuinely shocked by how many people think its OK to proselytize in this way through a school.
Its quite normal for people on the inside of religion to only see it as a positive experience, and see nothing wrong with telling everyone about it.
Its also quite normal for a large number of others to see it as harmless, because they may not be susceptible themselves.
But telling a child (even obliquely) that they may be separated from their family members and tortured for all eternity based on whether they give the right answers to a mental questionnaire about the baby jesus, is seriously ****ed up.
As a child (and beyond) I lost a lot of sleep over this pish. For those who think its all just words and can't have a serious effect, try to imagine what its like if you are genuinely taken in and actually believe what they say.
Even if you believe and "save" yourself, imagine what it feels like when the people you love the most don't.
It's not about love, its about control and the threat of eternal loss.
Oh, and its a made up lie.
So at least one of the misogynistic homophobes must be female
Good point I’ve never seen a misogynistic religion / cult faction with female members, definitely not.
On a side note, I am now just as concerned that so many members of this church already work in the school running various clubs etc. Are they espousing their beliefs to the children whilst running these clubs?
try to imagine what its like if you are genuinely taken in and actually believe what they say
Tried. Can't.
On a side note, I am now just as concerned that so many members of this church already work in the school running various clubs etc. Are they espousing their beliefs to the children whilst running these clubs?
Happy Clappy Christians running school clubs? Shocking. What next Muslims?
Good point
It is. If a woman tried to convince me to hate women the first point back would be "If I should hate you, why should I listen to your request to hate you." Or are you suggesting women would use some other technique to get me to hate women?
Of course these evangelical churches are misogynistic - its a central part of their ethos. Yes there are women in them - I feel sorry for them so brainwashed they do not understand.
Hence the battles over female representation.
Yes there are women in them – I feel sorry for them so brainwashed they do not understand.
Hence the battles over female representation.
You mean we need battles to stop people presenting women as brainless victims? Good idea.
Seeing as you seem these groups are fine to be welcomed into primary schools, what are thoughts on this particular point taken from the alliances website concerning their position with homosexuality?
We encourage evangelical congregations to welcome and accept sexually active lesbians and gay men. However, they should do so in the expectation that they, like all of us who are living outside God’s purposes, will come in due course to see the need to be transformed and live in accordance with biblical revelation and orthodox church teaching. We urge gentleness, patience and ongoing pastoral care during this process and after a person renounces same-sex sexual relations.
I love all this ‘the op chose a faith based school’
Do any of you actually have children? Have you tried getting into a primary school that is near your house/near another siblings school/actually has space etc etc
Yes, and yes again. Two boys, 28 & 26. both managed to get through schooling without attending any faith-based schools (as in fact I did as well).
That’s how they get you. First it will be bourbons, nice coffee and a bit of gentle guitar strumming, next you’re double-tithing, worried about your sinfulness, and wondering none of your old friends want to talk to you any more.
I'm comfortable with the double-tithing and ditching my friends etc. but the guitar strumming ...
Genuinely shocked
The best sort of shocked.
I think we're arguing two separate points as if they were the same thing here.
1) Would you let a bunch of friendly religious types come in to a religious school and talk about religion?
2) Would you let a bunch of extremists come in to a religious school and talk about religion?
Now I'd expect that most people's answer to these two questions would be different. Which then rather begs the question, which category does an organisation calling themselves "Living Fire" fall into?
I posted a link to the EA website earlier, and that's now been confirmed by the letter above. There's quite a bit of this which makes me itch, I'll give you this as a random example:
[We believe in...] The divine inspiration and supreme authority of the Old and New Testament Scriptures, which are the written Word of God – fully trustworthy for faith and conduct.
Does teaching that the Old Testament is the written word of god and fully trustworthy sound like a great idea to anyone in 2019? Hm?
And if nothing else, just look at their bloody name. Does calling yourself "Living Fire" rather than "The Church of St Matthew" not ring any alarm bells?
And sure, they could be innocuous. But I reckon I'd be cautious at best.
Yes, and yes again. Two boys, 28 & 26. both managed to get through schooling without attending any faith-based schools (as in fact I did as well).
Lucky you, do you accept that not everyone will be so fortunate? Were I live my kids could of attended anyone of four or five primary schools, all of which are faith based.
OP, I think you would be mad to allow your unsupervised children to be brainwashed by a bunch of anonymous cultists.
I will pray for you and your family.
trailwagger
Is the school still under LEA control? If so get on to them about this.
Its not acceptable for these people to be coming into schools
IIRC the Guardian ran a piece on this and their methods of infiltrating schools. At least two lies I have detected in the stuff you posted. They have to do this because if the truth was known there would be more opposition to them coming into schools.
Lucky you, do you accept that not everyone will be so fortunate? Were I live my kids could of attended anyone of four or five primary schools, all of which are faith based.
Care to share an abbreviated form of your postcode(with the last 2 letter knocked off)? I think it's a pretty rubbish state of affairs if that is the case.
As established previously 37% of primary schools are faith based so your nearest 5 schools all being faith based is a probability 0.7% which makes your damned (your god bothering neighbours would not agree clearly!) unlucky.
Care to share an abbreviated form of your postcode(with the last 2 letter knocked off). I think it’s a pretty rubbish state of affairs if that is the case.
As established previously 37% of primary schools are faith based so your nearest 5 schools all being faith based is a probability 0.7% which makes your damned unlucky.
Don't really want to be that specific as I have tried not to identify any schools or individuals in the post. But I can tell you that 50% of schools in my county are faith based, and you will have to take my word for it when I tell you that the closest four are all faith schools.
Buddhism isn’t exactly known for proselytising anyway, is it?
Worse than bloody vegans and cyclists for having to tell anyone who doesn't want to know all about their views within 30 seconds of meeting them `:-)
Sikhism is good on this point - accepting all religions and proselytizing is forbidden!
2) Would you let a bunch of extremists come in to a religious school and talk about religion?
Now I’d expect that most people’s answer to these two questions would be different. Which then rather begs the question, which category does an organisation calling themselves “Living Fire” fall into?
You nearly used the term "begs the question" accurately there, albeit by mistake, in that whether you would approve of their coming to the school is related to whether you could call them extremists, and whether you would call them extremists determines whether you would approve of their coming to the school.
I went to a C of E school for a few years and we spent half of every morning doing "RI" which was mostly learning the order of services and various prayers and hymns off by heart. At the time this was all pretty mainstream, so not extremist. I don't suppose many of my classmates have had anything to do with church of any sort other than weddings and funerals since, but it was probably of similar use to learning Latin.
As for spending taxpayers money, I see that BBC2 is showing snooker right now.
Worse than bloody vegans and cyclists for having to tell anyone who doesn’t want to know all about their views within 30 seconds of meeting them `:-)
But what about proselytising?
what was the outcome to this? any update?
Sikhism is good on this point – accepting all religions and proselytizing is forbidden!
Plus they’re a warrior people, and a number of their sacred objects are weapons, so best not to test them on the latter point! 😄
I’m a bit late to this thread but my hackles were raised once I read “evangelical”, absolutely no place for proselytising zealots
Do any of you actually have children? Have you tried getting into a primary school that is near your house/near another siblings school/actually has space etc etc
yes and it was pretty easy to get my kids into the local primary and high school. Even got eldest moved to a different school out of the catchment area.
for us in brighton its the catholic school or the local school where they are likely to get their head kicked in on a regular basis.
I`m for somewhere else but the catholic option is the only viable one in the same city. (its a sodding enormous school so we are not the only ones that consider this)
I wouldnt allow my kids to attend any stuff like the OP raised.
what was the outcome to this? any update?
The session went ahead. My daughter was one of only three children that had been opted out. I asked her last week if any of the other kids had been acting weird or had spinny eyes from being brainwashed since the session. She just laughed.
Nutters.
No complaint to the LEA about letting these people into the school when they are clearly lying and also their beliefs clearly do not fit in with schools inclusiveness policies?
I asked her last week if any of the other kids had been acting weird or had spinny eyes from being brainwashed since the session. She just laughed.
Other way around surely? The rest of the kids are cured of their demonic possession.
All religion is some form of cult.
There should be no place for religion in schools, at least until a certain age and then just factual teaching about how religions work and what they believe in, then it is up to the older child to decide whether they want to follow that religion.
Otherwise it is a form of grooming.
There should be no faith schools at all in this country.
Just realised I didn't update witht he response from the head. Here it is
Thank you for taking the time to share the concerns you have about the Living Fire workshops arranged for Friday 10th May.
I would like to take this opportunity to re-assure you that when School was approached by Living Fire, we took time over several meetings with N ****, our Chair of Governors and Vicar, Mrs ** and Mrs ******, Heads of RE and Worship, to decide whether the workshops would compliment our RE curriculum and whether the beliefs of Living Fire would in any way contradict with our Christian values.
After these discussions, it was felt that the workshops would support our school values.School invites people from all faiths and no faiths. We are pleased to offer these exciting 20 minute workshops exploring God through the senses and expect that they will offer the children to further question and wonder about God.
We completely understand and appreciate if you feel you would like your children to opt out of these workshops. I have also forwarded your email to N ********* to share your concerns.
Once again, thank you for giving me the opportunity to respond to your email.
Do all of the teachers have swear words for names?
That's a cop out reply (as expected).
That’s a cop out reply (as expected).
What got me was the fact that the school offered an opt out in the first place shows that they knew it would be contentious. If it did align with the school values, and curriculum then why offer an opt out? In fact why bother even mentioning that it was going to happen at all?
ta for the update.
If it did align with the school values, and curriculum then why offer an opt out?
Because it is a faith based school but not everyone shares that faith?
Because it is a faith based school but not everyone shares that faith?
By that logic they would be offering opt outs to all church services that take place on Fridays. And all prayers that are recited daily. And all special services at Christmas, Easter etc. But they don't.
They should do IIRC. Different issue tho.