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Not sure if things have changed in the last couple of years, but if your childminder is Ofsted approved & registered, & your wife goes back on no more than 24hrs a week; you could get half that £1200 p/m back in the Childcare element of working tax credit.(Assuming you dont earn megabucks).
There's a calculator online to check if your eligable. Its as frustrating as hell, but your pretty much working for nowt till they get a funded nusery place at 3yrs otherwise.
Don't know shit about peoples lifestyles or views on bringing up their kids.
Do know that when my dad was on his last legs he said his one of his biggest regrets was not being about to watch me grow up.
Made damn sure that I was there when my daughter was young and my missus took redundancy and was there for her too
Might not have the newest car, biggest house or most massive telly, but we both wouldn't have missed it for the world.
Its not all about money or possessions, you only get one go and think carefully otherwise you may also have a lot of regrets
Do know that when my dad was on his last legs he said his one of his biggest regrets was not being about to watch me grow up.
Agreed - last year we were at a friend's daughters' birthday and I got talking to his dad and he was telling me how he worked 6 days a week to provide for his kids but he had massive regrets that he barely saw them as they grew up.
The most precious thing you can give your children is your time.
I earn about £30k and don't see any looming financial problems, we'll just have to cut the cloth accordingly
It depends a lot on where you live.
Part of the problem with being the one with the earning potential is that you are the one that has to go out to work. I go out every day when I'd much rather be at home with my kid. It's what I do for the family. Currently I am home every night.
Btw, people don't always go out to work to buy a flashy new car or a tv. Sometimes they go out to work to give their family the freedom to have good experiences. And of course balance is crucial in this as in all things.
Re time - I could be working 40 hours a week in Asda just the same. Our family would be worse off all round I think.
I just think you should bring your kids up without using hired hands
Well I think that kids benefit from developing long term, regular relationships with other kids and [b]adults who aren't their direct family[/b]. The sort of thing they miss out on if they get cared for full time at home by parents and relatives. Given our oldest is just about to start school, it's worth noting the relevance of the bit in bold - some of the info we've got mentions specifically issues kids have with relating to other adults when starting school.
well obviously if family look after the child they miss out on not being looked after by [s]people they are not related to caring for them in exchage for money[/s] [b]adults who aren't their direct family. [/b] I just think that missing out on the care that could be provided by the family is more of a loss.
As far as I am aware the research on this is mixed with studies producing evidence that non parental care is bad, no different or positive. As my quote says I think it is better that the parents do this ..in effect I get to spend quality time with my children when they are young and that is the most important thing [to me if not to them]. Each person can make their own choice.
I'm fairly sure though there are people out there who claim they are doing all sorts of things 'for their kids' who are actually doing them for themselves. I struggle to understand the motivation of some people to have kids who then get rid of them as much as possible.I think a lot of people get trapped into believing that their lifestyle outgoings are essentials. I don't have any 'evidence' for this other than observations.
obviously all those parents who buy expensive mtb's, drive VAG estates and go riding every weekend should take a long hard look at themselves. I mean those people who dissappear with their riding mates for a full day's riding in the lakes or at trail centre's or who spend time developing second careers such as photography should be interviewed by social services. 🙄
Each person can make their own choice [b]and be slagged off on STW for it[/b]
We were making our own choices quite nicely there, then for some reason you waded in...
plenty of other folk chipped in first and I hardly started this. That said yes the chat forum of stw is where you keep your opinions to your self and it is not the place for discussion
Sorry
Ps thanks for wading in to put me right
obviously all those parents who buy expensive mtb's, drive VAG estates and go riding every weekend should take a long hard look at themselves. I mean those people who dissappear with their riding mates for a full day's riding in the lakes or at trail centre's or who spend time developing second careers such as photography should be interviewed by social services.
Huh? I don't have kids. Interesting to see you've been stalking me via the forum though. 😕
Nice use of [i]reductio ad absurdum[/i] too.
Huh? I don't have kids.
I assume the bike gets hung up in the garage/ sacrificed to the classifieds when you do?
Interesting to see you've been stalking me via the forum though
I would take comfort in the success of your viral marketing campaign.
I didn't know you drive a VAG estate 😉
I assume the bike gets hung up in the garage/ sacrificed to the classifieds when you do?
Yes, because anything other than spending every waking minute with my children would make me a [i]massive[/i] hypocrite, wouldn't it.
would take comfort in the success of your viral marketing campaign.
Yay. 🙂
I didn't know you drive a VAG estate
Actually it's a Berlingo - must stalk harder.
Back on topic
There are plenty of parents around here who would haven't an issue paying for the full 52 weeks.
the reality is that she will know she is good at what she does and probably gets recommended by other parents to their friends. Personnally if she is that good she deserves what she can charge. Why should she charge less? Would you?
I would also check what happens when she is ill, a good dose of the flu could be two weeks off. Falling off her mtb could be 6-8 weeks 😉
So junky, you're dismissing the direct evidence because it doesn't fit in with your view?
Not sure if things have changed in the last couple of years, but if your childminder is Ofsted approved & registered, & your wife goes back on no more than 24hrs a week; you could get half that £1200 p/m back in the Childcare element of working tax credit.(Assuming you dont earn megabucks).
Unfortunately the threshold is below what we earn, so it seems that Childcare Vouchers are the only 'handout' we're entitled too. Both currently sorting that out with our employers.
Part of the problem with being the one with the earning potential is that you are the one that has to go out to work. I go out every day when I'd much rather be at home with my kid. It's what I do for the family. Currently I am home every night.
Yep, that's pretty much the case here. Although I work from home 80%+ of the time, so I get to play with little fella on and off throughout the day. And I do the last feed etc so get another couple of hours with him before carrying on with any necessary work.
We live in an expensive part of the country and don't have any family nearby to support us. Naturally both impact our expendable income. Hence putting the effort in now is key to creating as much financial stability as possible. I don't want to be working 'all hours' by the time he goes to school - I want to be able to support him in every activity he does etc.
obviously all those parents who buy expensive mtb's, drive VAG estates and go riding every weekend should take a long hard look at themselves
2.5 our of 3 on that one 🙂 I do escape for a few hours most weekends but other than that we do just about everything else as a family.
So junky, you're dismissing the direct evidence because it doesn't fit in with your view?
Am I ?
The direct evidence is inconclusive so it wont "prove" either view [ your tautology was correct if not highly relevant thanks for dropping it and attacking me]
We are left with opinions which we can both freely hold
i would not accuse you of ignoring evidence just simply doing something different/prioritising ither things etc
it is amusing to be attacked for suggesting parents look after their kids
times really have changed
it is amusing to be attacked for suggesting parents look after their kids
Except that's not where it ends is it?
You're being attacked for appearing to attack other people's parenting. This is an emotive issue and often upsets people who are trying to do their best for their family in circumstances about which you know little.
What's required in this area is [b]tact[/b] and [b]sensitivity[/b].... unless you actually want to piss people off in which case don't. It's not nice 🙂
Tact and sensitivity.... ? On't interweb?
Its a novel concept but I doubt it'd catch on 😉
The direct evidence is inconclusive
The direct evidence of children having issues relating with adults other than their direct family when they start school? I don't think there is any lack of conclusion that some children do have a problem with that.
Of course you haven't really provided a very good answer to why you can't home educate either, if it's so important that kids don't spend any time being looked after by people other than their parents. I mean it's not at all like going to the doctor or dentist - plenty of perfectly ordinary people who aren't teachers home educate. You can't have it both ways - either it's unreasonable to send your kids to school, or it's not unreasonable to send your kids to nursery.
it is amusing to be attacked for suggesting parents look after their kids
Glad you enjoyed it, given I'm sure the targets of your comments found them very amusing. My job is done.
I am not attacking anyone else I am saying what I would do. Are people who use childcare attacking me – aracer certainly thinks he has evidence I am damaging my children for example? I did post it up in an inflammatory way [lacking tact and sensitivity certainly]as it seemed to be at a jovial point and I expected a reaction. However I don’t think i have accused them of being bad parents, nor have I suggested the children will have issues as a result of the choices made.[ I challenged TJ on this first post as well.
Despite the repeated instance that education is analogous to care I disagree. We could debate why , some more, but I doubt this will change anyones mind seeing as you are not convinced so far.
Glad you enjoyed it, given I'm sure the targets of your comments found them very amusing. My job is done.
You are taking yourself,your "job, me and the internet a little too seriously today but I am flattered by your attention.
One last time Suggesting childcare should be provided by the parents is not attacking parents who don’t do this…given how stupid some of you appear to be, as you cant see this distinction, you probably should leave it to other people 😉
Now that would be attacking people.
I am not attacking anyone else
It sounded like it... that's kind of my point.
given how stupid some of you appear to be
Given how tactless and naive you seem to be, can I suggest to everyone else that we ignore him...
My wife stopped working when she first got pregnant [1979] and she's yet to go back 🙂
Anyway, we took the decision that we didn't want kids so that someone else could bring them up so that's what she mainly did
We later fostered other kids [24] and adopted another one to add to our 3 natural kids.
TBH, I couldn't imagine farming kids out for more than a day here and there, they'd miss so much
It sounded like it... that's kind of my point
You wrong again ...seems hard to believe 😉 The only person attacked here seems to have been me despite people saying basically what I said see above for example quick call them names tell them how bad it was for their kids etc
Given how tactless and naive you seem to be, can I suggest to everyone else that we ignore him
perhaps you could start be ignoring me then we could both be happy 8)
I think other folk can make up their own minds without your guidance ...you would not like to look like you were sticking your oar in and telling people what to do now would you 😕
In these sort of situations when somebody is denying being tactless and denying attacking people, I find it always helps to check back what their first contribution actually was.
If you wish to have children it seems reasonable to suggest you could perhaps look after them yourself and work out how you will do this first.
In these sort of situations when somebody is denying being tactless and denying attacking people, I find it always helps to check back what their first contribution actually was.If you wish to have children it seems reasonable to suggest you could perhaps look after them yourself and work out how you will do this first.
I don't see how this is attacking people - seems like some people perhaps feel guilty about their life decisions and are very over-sensitive to any perceived criticism of their lifestyle. 😉
The only person attacked here seems to have been me
And why might that be? Because you pissed everyone off. You might want to wonder why that was, rather than just blaming us for being pissed off.
Junkyard - they had a go at me too. You must know that to question someone childcare arrangements is to elicit a very defensive response
And why might that be? Because you pissed everyone off.
Because it's not possible to ever question anyone's parenting choices in any way without people getting massively defensive about it.
When TJ defends you, you are really in the shit 😆
I am not sure molgrips is speaking for everyone when he claims I pissed everyone off plenty of other folk think and have acted as I have done/said on this thread. I think Grum has it people dont like to be questioned over their childcare choices. As i said in my second post
I dont want to argue I accept some people have no choice which is awful for them but I am sure we have all heard parents return after half term saying how relieved they are to get back to work etc that is more what I am getting at than child care per se.
I am sure we have all heard parents return after half term saying how relieved they are to get back to work etc that is more what I am getting at than child care per se
That's because work is a lovely rest!
I am not sure molgrips is speaking for everyone when he claims I pissed everyone off plenty of other folk think and have acted as I have done/said on this thread.
Ok not literally everyone. But you have to admit that parenting is a sensitive issue. And if people have agonised over a difficult decision then they might feel quite upset about someone coming on and appearing to be very critical of the decision they feel they've made in the best interests of THE WHOLE FAMILY but still are feeling guilty because of people like you.
Yes i do realise this now. I would[should] have said things in a more sensitive manner as this was not a thread for banter or hyperbole. I am not saying anything about you personally or as father. If a topic like this ever appears again I will tread much more softly.
Waves at Mrs flash how are you all not seen either of you on here for a while. You all OK?
We are all good thanks Junkyard, just had that real life thing going on so not been around for a while.
At risk of futher arguments, I have just gone back to work. It's lovely and relaxing 😉
Molgrips, so you're admitting that people are massively overly defensive about this issue then. Truth hurts sometimes 😉
easy grum he was honest about this and as such deserves respect not mockery. he has made a difficult choice and given it thought that is not something to mock..seriously you would not say that if you had kids he is right you cant have banter about peoples kids as it just pisses them off I see this now.
yes but you miss them [ boy as it?] dont you.
Ah the old 'you don't understand because you don't have kids' - maybe true, or maybe I can take a more objective detached view because I don't have kids. 😉
Funny how people criticise every last detail of everything on here but question parental choices and you're suddenly out of order.
no one can take an objective detached view when it comes to their children you cant explain it and nothing will prepare you for it.
I get that, that was my point.
I'm due to be a father on Saturday. I'll let you know if it's possible grum 🙂
I still think Junkyard has a point and that his first comment wasn't especially unfair. The school/childcare analogy is not especially valid either. We are lucky in a way as the decision is effectively made for us.
Sadly the most salient point was Binners', that house prices now reflect both partners earning a decent wage and it's a huge decision to have to downsize or live in a worse area so one of you can stay home. I can also see (and will experience!) that having less money as well could be detrimental to the childs upbringing. Molgrips, I can't see why you'd feel guilty at all. You made your choices just as Junkyard made his. Don't worry so much, it'll be fine 😉
We later fostered other kids [24] and adopted another one to add to our 3 natural kids
fostering is a career choice these days
I know child protection social workers who would never themselves foster if they had their own kids due to lack of information presented to the foster carers
you could also have the view that you performed a valuable social role and improved your own and other kids lives
two sides to the same situation, much as for most people doing the best they can for their families
Ok not literally everyone. But you have to admit that parenting is a sensitive issue. And if people have agonised over a difficult decision then they might feel quite upset about someone coming on and appearing to be very critical of the decision they feel they've made in the best interests of THE WHOLE FAMILY but still are feeling guilty because of people like you.
personally if you get some person justifying their life decisions by criticising yours which you have carefully thought through I would suspect they are unhappy with their own decisions. In that context I would ignore the criticism.
HTH
I do the same sorry you are so unhappy 🙄
I do the same sorry you are so unhappy
must be based on the detailed criticism of your life choices 🙄
IGNORES 😆
Molgrips, so you're admitting that people are massively overly defensive about this issue then
Yes indeed. That's because when people make decisions about their kids they are often nervous about them because a) they can have massive unforseen implications which you can't predict and b) people are ramming 'advice' down your throat from all angles. If that's not a recipe for anxiety and guilt tripping I don't know what is.
FWIW Mrs Grips does stay home with the kid, and I personally don't feel guilty about any of our decisions (yet, although some are in the pipeline which may change that). However I appreciate how other people feel 🙂