When it's phrased as "CCTV of your daughter" . . . yup, [b]outofbreath[/b], I agree, even I think that sounds a bit weird, wrong and Big-Brothery. I was more thinking of one of the new wave motion activated cameras specifically in my bedroom, when she is staying (they come disguised as radios and fire alarms, all sorts). As opposed to a full time surveillance system over the whole house!
Aside from that, I'll bear in mind the gift idea. Thanks!
Did you see that "Ordinary Lies" episode, where the bloke was videoing his house, cos he thought his wife was having an affair? He became obsessed with watching the footage - of his wife meeting people, his daughter mucking about and his son snogging a bird... all sorts of issues.. (Not bad for a crappy BBC drama tbh). That'd be you though OP.
I once set up a mini disc to record the dog to see if she barked while we were out. That's as far as I'd go. Can't imagine covertly watching people who don't know they're being filmed. Bit weird really.
[b]@I_dib_dab[/b] - ooooh, tricksy. Remind me never to play you at Poker! 😉 Thanks for the suggestion.
Yes, [b]DezB[/b], I did, and that's partially what got me thinking about it, tbh. Although I wouldn't want the 'whole house' surveillance, as I've outlined above. Great drama though - the superheroes episode was also quite good.
Don't get her sister involved. It really wouldn't go well if/when she finds out.
"Perhaps I could appeal to her sister to have an sneaky peek the next time she's back from Uni. But that also feels wrong, somehow."
[i]that's partially what got me thinking about it[/i]
Blimey! I thought it would put you off the idea, if anything 😉
I was more thinking of one of the new wave motion activated cameras specifically in my bedroom, when she is staying (they come disguised as radios and fire alarms, all sorts).
yeah that [i]is[/i] the kind of behaviour that will get you arrested.
I agree, [b]Paul.[/b]
Even as I typed it that felt like a bad idea. And a very, very unfair thing to ask.
Aside from anything else, you'd be asking the other daughter to pick sides, not fair on her (and could blow up if she grasses you up).
@plyphon - the valuable items have been 'removed', 'mislocated', 'lost' or whatever from [i]my bedroom[/i]. Specifically, a closed drawer in my bedroom. Hence, that would seem to be the obvious place, if I were to go down that route. I get the innuendo, excuse me if I don't chuckle.
"When it's phrased as "CCTV of your daughter" . . . yup, outofbreath , I agree, even I think that sounds a bit weird, wrong and Big-Brothery"
That's the phrase your ex will be using to describe it.
I do like the overt security idea of telling the whole household that there is a security issue and that a camera has been installed to watch over the safe. This will likely solve the theft issue but it doesn't address the underlying relationship problem that there obviously is.
The theft of material items is incidental in my eyes (unfortunate about the ring with sentimental attachment though!), it's the fact that your daughter is dealing with a particular situation by stealing...if it is your daughter.
it's not healthy behaviour and could develop further later on in life if the underlying issues are not confronted in the right way. And I must stress...if it is her in the first place!
"Specifically, a closed drawer in my bedroom."
Is it essential to leave her alone in the house?
Agreed, [b]Cougar[/b].
I'm coming to the conclusion that, as tempting as it is to create a 'definite' by techno trickery, the gentle communication and support route is the way forward. (But I might try clodhopper's 'note' idea, just for a laugh!)
You're right, CCTV of your daughter is 10x weirder than a teenager nicking low value items from a parent. You currently have the moral high ground, if I were you I'd hang onto it.
A £1500 pair of earings is far from low value.
Some sort of surveillance in your bedroom, if that's where the items have gone missing from isn't anything like "spying" on your daughter.
It probably do it in your circumstances. At least you'd know for sure. You wouldn't have to confront your daughter with any film. But whatever you decided to do there'd be none of the did she didn't she uncertainty.
Kind of hard not to, tbh, [b]outofbreath[/b].
And, yeah, you're right, regarding the ex. That's kind of a clincher, actually.
I have a couple of thoughts - does your daughter know that the items were replaced under insurance? Did she know about the value of the earrings or might she have just thought they were nice shiny things that might not be noticed if they went missing? I'm ashamed to admit that I stole the odd note out of my parents' wallets when I was in my youngish teens, and I think the way I justified it to myself at the time was that they wouldn't miss a fiver or two.
Some have mentioned drugs or shiny things, bear in mind it could be simple alcohol.
The other thing I wondered is whether your CCTV idea would work in reverse: if your daughter knows that the insurance paid out, you could mention that because you think it might be neighbours / tradesmen / cleaner / etc, the insurers have recommended you install covert cameras in the house, and leave it ambiguous about whether you have or haven't and where they'd be, maybe just make a comment about how you were amazed how small they were and how they'd fit in smoke detectors, plug sockets, that sort of thing. That way, you wouldn't actually have to go to the extent of installing CCTV but she may always have the doubt that there's a camera nearby if / when she steals.
That said, she may always have the doubt that there's a camera nearby... and that diminishing of trust and privacy is an uncomfortable measure.
I really hope you find a way to work this out, my son's not even 4 yet and I'm really hoping that if I get into such a situation down the line that there'll be a source of useful and not-useful advice like STW!
Just in case you haven't thought it through, what would you do if you found the items?
To recover them would likely require a Plod involvement which would be a whole lot more sticky than having a tricky conversation with a teenager.
My eldest lad is moving into teendom and it's absolute bloody murder.
He's broken the tv in his room. No-one else can have done it. I doubt it was deliberate, more like he's tossed soemthing aside and it's bashed the screen.
Will he admit it? Will he buggery. He won't even consider the possibility that he may have done it. No one else was in the house!
I feel the OP's frustration, when you [u]know[/u] what's happened, but the prime suspect calls you a liar.
It's not £1500-worth, and only my son is suffering without tv/Xbox/Netflix in my case.
@plyphon - the valuable items have been 'removed', 'mislocated', 'lost' or whatever from my bedroom. Specifically, a closed drawer in my bedroom. Hence, that would seem to be the obvious place, if I were to go down that route. I get the innuendo, excuse me if I don't chuckle.
Right, what i'm getting at is - there is "reasonable right to privacy" laws that are in place, the same laws that say we can't film in the changing rooms at shops incase people are stuffing extra pants down their...pants.
And bathrooms and bedrooms certainly come under that. If you have footage of someone, even a family member on your private property, in a bedroom where they are expected to have a reasonable right to privacy, and even if they're aware of the cameras, you're on shaky legal ground that I wouldn't consider worth it for a potential legal battle with a lawyer who fancies a no-win-no-fee shakedown on behalf of your ex if she gets wind of it all.
[b][u]IS MY POINT.[/u][/b]
As an aside -
How about a camera IN the draw, ready to capture whoever open's it up. That way you're not invading the privacy of your bedroom, and you'll catch anything that happens from that particular draw.
[i]How about a camera IN the draw, ready to capture whoever open's it up.[/i]
or just a note: "Hello Xxxxxxx, please respect our privacy and personal posessions."
Or lock the draw and solve the problem.
Victory here is not catching the daughter out and humiliating her.
Victory here is maintaining a good relationship with the daughter long after this weird phase is over.
Good reading through this thread.
It's amazing what you learn about attitudes to kids, thier actions and yours too.
Keep up the good work all you Parents, it's a role I've never had nor will.
If there's something you dont want stolen lock it away somewhere that it cant be stolen. How about installing CCTV cameras but telling the daughter that they are there - because things have been stolen and that you want to catch who is doing it - no blame on her but hopefully enough to stop her stealing anything more if it is her that's doing it.
If there's something you dont want stolen lock it away somewhere that it cant be stolen.
I think I'd pretty much not want anything stolen. You can't lock everything away.
my vote is, put in a camera, (tell the wife, you never know where that might lead 😉 ), and confirm or otherwise your doubts.
When you know 100% or otherwise, then you can deal with the culprit as you see best, confident in that you are right.
Put the cameras up, also install some sort of elaborate Indiana Jones booby trap whicj culminates in her running down the road pursued by a huge boulder before she narrowly escapes and you snatch back the ill gotten gains
That'll leave a lasting memory of what not to do. 🙂
OP i would suggest you dont go down the covert CCTV route...unless you're planning on losing your daughter for a very long time.
she'll never trust you again or respect you if she ever found out.
like others have said speak to her and try and work out what the underlying issues are that are making her steal...it could be a drug/alcohol problem (remember some forms of drug (ab)use are harder to spot and some users are very good at hiding it),
she could be simply doing it to keep up with her social group by having money to have the latest fashion/gadgets etc or it could be your ex who is putting her up to this
speak to the school to get an idea of her behaviour there...it'll be harder to get that info out of her sister or her friends
think about mediation and counselling for her i the long term especially if she does have problems.
she may also simply be doing this for attention and it could be a cry for help...again speaking to her in a sensitive manner will identify if this is the case
in the meantime to prevent further thefts you should consider a safe for all valuables...maybe one that can be hidden so she doesnt know about it
if you are still thinking of the cctv route being the only option then make it blatantly obvious...tell her its because the insurers want it installed due to the earrings going missing but limit it to wherever the valuables are kept...the suggestion earlier about getting a strongbox and putting it in a dedicated wardrobe/cupboard might be a good idea...but have one camera installed in there so it films whoever opens the cupboard/wardrobe...if she does go looking for it then the camera staring her in the face should be enough to put her off and give you the evidence you need but without anything going missing
whatever you decide make sure you think it through and consider the possible implications of it...good luck OP
needs to be handled with a degree of sensitivity that a UN negotiator in the Middle East would be familar with
anyone got Jambafacts on speeddial?
How using one of the explosive dye packs that they use to protect cash in transit?
Put in a jewellery box in your drawer, once it's been activated there will be no denying it 😉
On a serious note, good luck. I was a bothersome teenager and my parents stuck it out, I like to think I turned out ok 🙂
How using one of the explosive dye packs that they use to protect cash in transit?
Put in a jewellery box in your drawer, once it's been activated there will be no denying it
i was thinking of suggesting that too...or maybe a series of Indiana Jones style booby traps!
My parental issues are very mild to negligible in comparison but CCTV is not the answer.
Keep talking, calmly and rationally, don't expect a confession, at least not straight away.
There is so much research out there to suggest that reasoning and logical thinking are the last parts of the brain to form and can coninue doign so in the 20's; so it can allow (but not excuse) for some strange behavior. Good luck
[b]@plyphon[/b] - Ok, I see your point, thanks for taking the time to clarify that. I'm curious about the right to privacy interpretation though; I respect people's right to privacy, but I don't think my daughter's right to privacy extends to [i]my wife & I's[/i] bedroom. What about our right to privacy? I don't like having my drawers rifled through, clothing removed and worn without asking. Mrs. B [i]most definitely [/i]objects to that.
[b]newrobdob[/b] - I like your thinking! lol.
The daughter is point blank refusing to admit any wrong doing. If the OP then decides to get some sort of mediation, counselling or persistently trying to coax information out of her, does this not show the daughter that the OP has absolutely no trust in what she says? I think this would be more detrimental to the relationship than getting hard evidence and then working on the issues.
For me, it's either getting hard evidence sensitively or avoiding the issue and hoping things get better.
Not easy!
Some great advice given on this thread.
Jeepers! Its stuff like this that makes me really glad I don't have kids
I really can't think of any solutions without bad outcomes but my gut feeling is not covert cameras but overt ones ie tell everyone cameras are going in and put them in. Either the thefts stop ( most likely) or the proof is there.
Covert cameras would be wrong in my view because what would you do with the evidence?
Have a think about motives - is it a cry for help / attention? Is the money needed for something? Is it just a way of getting back at the second wife?
HOpe it gets sorted, sorry I can't offer anything constructive
Thanks [b]gonzy[/b]. Wise words. 🙂
Thank you, [b]Pierre[/b] - savour every second, especially whilst their whole world consists of you!
Thanks [b]surroundedbyhills[/b] - late teenagers like to think that they're the business, but they are still very much children at that age. I wouldn't be a teenager again. (21, now [i]that[/i] I would consider!)
[b]@tjagain[/b] - thanks for taking the time to consider and comment! I think you make a very good point about covert vs. overt. Overt systems tend to be a lot more expensive, invasive to install, and ugly! Then there's the whole Big Brother thing, that I'm not overly comfortable with.
And you're right, it's kind of a lose / lose situation. Dammit!
Shaky legal ground made all the more shaky by
How about a camera IN the draw
It's a drawer!!
Good luck to the OP. As a parent I've first hand experience of the mysterious occurrences for which no one is to blame, though all minor by comparison. I'd probably ask the older sibling to invite discussion with the younger to see if that provided any insight. I presume all is well at school and there's no noticeable change in her social patterns/friendship circle etc that would provide a clue. Do you know any parents of friends to ask if they're experiencing any issues of late?
I might take added security precautions but being the way I am means I'd want to find the culprit and solve the underlying cause rather than potentially pushing any thieving outside of the home.
Really tricky so again good luck!
I'll be perfectly honest, i've read nearly all the comments on this it is a really hard call. I think all you can do is make it clear you have concerns, but that she is your daughter and you're there if she has any issues and she wants to talk.
From my experience of teenagers the harder you push them, the harder they push back.
Also as the parent of a Type 1 (my daughter is just shy of 7 years old though), i am dreading her teenage years, you have to remember that insulin a hormone and that she is at a point in her life where her hormones are going mad, so the teenage years are going to three times as hard. It is a medical condition that can leave both parents and the sufferer bitter at times, and she will be seeing her friends do things that she will struggle to do, a time where bad diet and cheap cider are the norm.
overt camera need not be expensive - go pro with motion sensing would do
Haven't read it all so this may have been mentioned earlier, and I talk from experience.
Was there a noticable change in behaviour around the time of the divorce?
Was it a messy divorce?
Is she struggling to find her place in the new family units of falling between two stools?
Is she jst calling for the attention that she may not be getting (the attention she needs and not the attention you think she needs).
A camera is very likely to blow up in your face at some time in the future, maybe not the immediate future, but it's likely to blow.
Sounds like a cry for help from the poor girl.
Find out what she wants before wading in with accusations or cameras.
EDIT: I've read a bit more and see that she's growing up with a bitter mother who argues with the father and in a world where here father doesn't trust her. She's screaming for attention and her actions will only get worse unitl she gets it.
I'm not sure about surveillance in this case. However, rather than cameras, what about 'securing' the drawer with some sort of motion sensor which could send you a text when the drawer (or room door) opens? It would allow you to determine who was in the house at the time, and if you were also around you might be able to just 'bump into them'.
What about one of those exploding snake from a tin things wedged in the draw?
Didnt mean to be dark earlier, just that we were almost two pages into a partner/female issue and nobody had mentioned the STW standard solution.
Bombers In a booby trap which swing down when she opens the door.
Remote controlled irrigation which injects wee into her (designer) shoes if a drawer with valuables in it is opened.
Sorry to hear that - they can be such sly little buggers. How did you find out?
We've a squeaky floorboard in our bedroom and on this occasion Mrs Z heard it and asked what Dan was doing in the bedroom. He was caught off guard and started to deny it. Mrs Z explained how she knew and they all went upstairs and it was obvious what he'd been up to. He fessed up and also came clean to the copper who was called.
Of course by the time the solicitor got involved it was a very different story. He went to court and got a fine. Whoopee.
He stolen from others and his parents. Old habits die hard it seems.
