Draw[b]ER[/b]! FFS people, we're better than this.
Incidentally, does she know the insurance has paid out? That might legitimise the thefts, if she knows that it's a "victimless crime" cos you'll get the money back.
"It's such a shame we've lost granny's earrings, we had a buyer lined up and were going to put the money towards taking you to Florida / buying you a car / shoes and handbags, but we can't afford it now."
I'm out of particularly useful ideas in such a difficult situation.
It does seem that communication is the best solution - if challenging and torturous...
Good luck. We had hysterics last night when I informed mine she would be repaying the £45 monthly 'fee' taken off my credit card after she signed up for VIP membership of Fabletics. 'But I didn't know that would happen', 'It's clearly stated in these emails they sent you', 'But I didn't read them', 'That's why you're £45 poorer'. So I don't envy you this far more complex problem. Good luck.
[b]EVERYONE! JUST EVERYBODY![/b]
Wow. I'm quite overwhelmed, to be honest. Thank you all SO MUCH for finding the time to read through the thread and come back with such diligent, honest and perceptive comments. It truly has been a massive, massive help.
With a situation, such as I have appealed to you, there are very few people that you can turn to; maybe a couple of closest members of family, maybe a couple of nearest and dearest trusted friends. aAside from that it's quite 'taboo'. This exchange of opinion and perspective within a forum of trust is something that I could never have experienced in the non-cyber world. I hope you all realise what an amazing thing this STW Forum is; a trusted community, friends and most cherished council.
Thank you all. 🙂
P.S. There's many of you that I want to personally respond to, but that might have to wait for a bit, as life intervenes. Cheers all.
Ok, this is an off the wall suggestion, based on having been a teenage girl.
My gran used to give me things, little bits of jewellery that had been important to her. They were not valuable but somehow being given things that had been part of her life was immensely precious to me. I don't know if everyone is the same, but my head was full of stories, and objects took on lots of significance. I suspect that I (also) pinched a few things as a child - not thinking I was stealing them but because they were parts of a story going on in my head so I needed to keep hold of them.
Anyway, why don't you try just randomly buying her the kinds of things you think she's stolen? Take her out and get her to choose a special lipstick. Suggest you'd like to buy her some jewellery, or give her something that you think she covets? Maybe your wife could take her out shopping?
I know it's a bit of an odd thing to do, but perhaps she wants that connection and hasn't got a way of asking for it? If your new marriage has more stability and general happiness than living with your ex, maybe she's just subconsciously reaching out and trying to hold onto some of that for herself?
It might not have any effect, but it's not really an expensive thing to do and it might give you a different conversation without going down the cameras route.
How about a camera IN the draw
It's a drawer!
Don't be so presumptious. He might be hiding the camera in amongst his stash
A little update.
We opted against the cctv route, on consideration, for many of the reasons outlined here and because we just didn't really want to live in [i]that sort of a home.[/i] However the suspicion has been slowly gnawing at us, compounded when I think I caught my daughter trying to shoplift on a family outing. A few other things have been noticed as absent (one of my wife's dresses, etc.)
I've also, in the interim, been around every single cash converter type pawn shop, market trader, jewellers etc. in the region with details of the jewellery that was missing, trying to make it too hot to touch. Nothing came of that.
So, day before yesterday during a conversation with Ex/daughter's mother, i asked if she seemed to be being a bit 'flash with the cash', possibly beyond her means. Yes, she has. I told Ex about the missing items, whereby she said she would look for them in daughter's room.
I took daughter out to talk about the counselling that I had already booked regarding some of her other issues, and received a photo text from Ex saying "is this the box?".
Yes.
Dog walk complete I take her to a cafe, and calmly confront her with the evidence.
Flat denial.
"Really? Your mother has just found this in your room. It's got the jewellers address on the inside of the box."
Denial.
Skip a bit, she confesses.
Subsequent conversation, she admits that she doesn't know why she took them, despite my alerting her to the financial and sentimental value, and having given her opportunities to return the jewellery, with subtle hints, like "I hope they'll just turn up, we've probably just misplaced them."
She admitted to being a kleptomaniac, and that she wanted to return them but couldn't. She revealed that she is having suicidal thoughts again, and that she just doesn't want to be here. Just wanted everything to go back to how it was before 2012 (T1 diabetes diagnosis).
After suitable reassurances and that despite the proof of the crime, we still loved her, wanted her in our home (terms and conditions apply) and would do everything that we could to support her, including paying for private counselling, I drove her to her other home, whereby she retrieved and returned the earrings.
Since then, I've discussed the situation with at least two child counsellors and arranged family psychotherapeutic counselling, informed her school of events, informed her doctor and am due to discuss reengaging Cams (Child mental heath team) and whether she ought to be sectioned. I have informed the insurance company and repaid the monies, and notified key family members. Obviously I have discussed this with my wife and my ex, although the ex is reluctant for daughter to engage in any counselling that involves my wife and I.
I've not pressed charges or notified the police . . . yet.
Any thoughts?
Cheers, M
you seem to be doing what any good parent would do and have handled the difficult situation well.
I wish you luck in it all.
A criminal record will in no way help her now or in later life
My thoughts are "there should be more dads like you".
Top man. Well done.
Tough situation.
Your daughter needs professional help, that almost seems certain.
All you can do is support her as a family should and help her to get help.
A bit of thumbs up for your ex too.
I seem to remember some negativity towards her (can't be bothered going back to re-read) but she came good when you worked together and didn't blindly side with your daughter.
You're a great dad, and even your ex comes out of this far better than I expected. Your new wife sounds pretty understanding too.
Delighted you got the earings back.
I hope it all gets worked out.
OP, I hope that as a parent, I can handle difficult situations as well as you have.
Sounds like you handled the situation properly, well done to you and your ex.
You mentioned that your daughter is T1 and craves a simpler time, before she had to deal with the condition. FWIW, stepson two is T1 and he was diagnosed aged twelve. The diagnosis was cataclysmic for him, he had a terrible, terrible time culminating in a violent incident when he lashed out at me. A T1 diagnosis at a young age can make a teenager feel a total loss of control, especially if she's struggling to manage blood sugars and testing regime.
First thing first, if your daughter isn't already using an insulin pump, then perhaps you might have a talk with her about being trained to use one. You might also discuss contacting her consultant to arrange for counselling. If she can claw back some control over her life then it'll improve the situation in the long run.
You're doing the right thing, reassurance is key and I commend you on how you've dealt with this.
Well done; CAMS are ace, they will be a massive benefit. But not as much as your parenting skills.
One thought - sectioning really should be the last resort and adds to stigma. It can be useful but IMO you would be best to avoid it. You appear to have got a dialogue started so hopefully that is a step you won't need. Do everything you can to keep her out of psychiatric hospitals
As others have said - good man for managing this well.
Thank you all.
@PJM1974 - She's got a continuous glucose monitoring scanner, which has massively improved her willingness to test, I'll look into the pump, but I've always thought that she should in control of her bloods 'analogue' before going 'digital'. There's quite lot going on at the mo! But I will look into it.
Sounds like you've handled it perfectly, to me.
Most importantly it sounds like you're all rebuilding the trust with each other.
Good luck with it all, but it sounds like you handled the really hard bit with the sensitivity it required
Nice one! 😀
My two thoughts
1/ I have a nearly 13 and a nearly 11 pair of daughters. Eldest is already having teenage moments but I hope I don't have these kinds of problems
2/ On the other hand if I do, my new mantra is 'what would bodgy do?' because you sound like exactly the sort of Dad I am aspiring to be.
I agree about sectioning, as I don't think she is an [i]imminent[/i] risk to herself, but we do have sufficient grounds should it become necessary.
Similarly, I am not pressing charges owing to the life long affects, but I don't mind having the option as a card up my sleeve, should I need leverage. It would be a far better outcome if she were to willingly engage with the family counselling process, rather than be forced into it.
Wife and I have decided that we do need her to engage with the counselling before we can have her overnight in our house again, but the first session is booked for monday, so we'll not have to wait long to see how it goes.
[b]@theotherjonv[/b] - awww, shucks! This forum really helped.
Bodgy, I'm glad this has worked out in an amicable way for you all. Hopefully it will help build bridges between both yourself and your daughter as well as between you and your ex.
As long as you show the loving and level headed parenting you have done then she should be able to grow through this.
I wish you all the best of luck
4130
Yes top dad.
well done OP for dealing with the matter in the best way possible. youve done all the right things.
i agree that getting the police involved isnt the best solution but now that its out in the open hopefully your daughter can now see that help is available
keep doing what youre doing. keep talking to her...even little things like a text message to see how she is doing or feeling. make sure she knows that youre there to listen to her and also make sure that your ex and your current wife also do this. the more support your daughter has the better it will be for her.
the first step in dealing with this situation was always going to be the hardest and you've taken that step brilliantly...but now is when you need to build on that to safeguard your daughters mental and emotional well being.
even if your ex is uncomfortable about dealing with this with your current wife...you'll need to get her to understand that its not about what she wants...its about your daughter...shes the priority now. your ex is going to have to put her issues with your wife to one side and the 3 of you need to work together to make sure the family support mechanisms are in place for your daughter.
TBH i think your daughter also needs to be applauded...admission to having a problem (even after the initial denials) is always the hardest step...she did well in recognising that she has a problem and admitting to it.
be strong and just be there for her and make sure she knows that...good luck buddy
Well done. You have proved yourself to be a fantastic parent. Credit to your ex too for helping in what are obviously difficult circumstances. Your daughter, despite her diagnosis, is a lucky girl.
I've always thought that she should in control of her bloods 'analogue' before going 'digital'. There's quite lot going on at the mo! But I will look into it.
Yes, I've been there with Stepson Two. With everything else going on in a teenager's brain it was very, very hard for him to get the control he needed using MDI. Getting him to deal with high blood sugars last thing at night was a regular battle, which we managed to defuse over time.
Top notch parenting there. Hope all goes well for you and your daughter.
The difficult thing has been to process the disappointment, betrayal and anger that I and Helen (wife) feel, and expressing it to Daughter without alienating her. Delicate, to say the least, but hopefully the family psychotherapy sessions will provide a safe conduit for that process.
Thanks, all.
OP...the fact that your daughter recognises and has admitted to having a problem probably indicates that she also possibly recognises the impact it has had on you to a certain degree and how you feel towards her.
i agree that she should be aware of how she has upset and disappointed you both etc...i dont think now is the time to bring that up...also hearing it from you directly of how her actions have angered you or disappointed you might not be good for her especially if she is still feeling vulnerable. hopefully the counselling sessions will enable her to understand the consequences of her actions or the counsellor could gently point it out to her
these are the 3 stages you should be prioritising right now
what is the problem - kleptomania
why is it occurring - this you need to find out
how can it be stopped/resolved - only when the why has been answered
I think this will be one of the times when you look back on your life when you think 'I made the right choice, did the right thing'. Well done.
[b]@gonzy[/b] -
Yes, quite right. It's going to be quite intense, as there's a whole portfolio of issues that need to be addressed (Suicide bid and continuing feelings, diabetes, parental separation is still lurking in there, her mother's emotional manipulation etc,) but yes, therapy and counselling is the way forward. 🙂
well done, you definitely did the right thing. I'm sure there's a lot of hard work to go to sort this out. You need to deal with your disappointment, but always remember that your daughter is ill. I'm not sure that telling her how you're feeling at this stage will help.
A little update.
We opted against the cctv route, on consideration, for many of the reasons outlined here and because we just didn't really want to live in that sort of a home. However the suspicion has been slowly gnawing at us, compounded when I think I caught my daughter trying to shoplift on a family outing. A few other things have been noticed as absent (one of my wife's dresses, etc.)
I've also, in the interim, been around every single cash converter type pawn shop, market trader, jewellers etc. in the region with details of the jewellery that was missing, trying to make it too hot to touch. Nothing came of that.
So, day before yesterday during a conversation with Ex/daughter's mother, i asked if she seemed to be being a bit 'flash with the cash', possibly beyond her means. Yes, she has. I told Ex about the missing items, whereby she said she would look for them in daughter's room.
I took daughter out to talk about the counselling that I had already booked regarding some of her other issues, and received a photo text from Ex saying "is this the box?".
Yes.
Dog walk complete I take her to a cafe, and calmly confront her with the evidence.
Flat denial.
"Really? Your mother has just found this in your room. It's got the jewellers address on the inside of the box."
Denial.
Skip a bit, she confesses.
Subsequent conversation, she admits that she doesn't know why she took them, despite my alerting her to the financial and sentimental value, and having given her opportunities to return the jewellery, with subtle hints, like "I hope they'll just turn up, we've probably just misplaced them."
She admitted to being a kleptomaniac, and that she wanted to return them but couldn't. She revealed that she is having suicidal thoughts again, and that she just doesn't want to be here. Just wanted everything to go back to how it was before 2012 (T1 diabetes diagnosis).
After suitable reassurances and that despite the proof of the crime, we still loved her, wanted her in our home (terms and conditions apply) and would do everything that we could to support her, including paying for private counselling, I drove her to her other home, whereby she retrieved and returned the earrings.
Since then, I've discussed the situation with at least two child counsellors and arranged family psychotherapeutic counselling, informed her school of events, informed her doctor and am due to discuss reengaging Cams (Child mental heath team) and whether she ought to be sectioned. I have informed the insurance company and repaid the monies, and notified key family members. Obviously I have discussed this with my wife and my ex, although the ex is reluctant for daughter to engage in any counselling that involves my wife and I.
I've not pressed charges or notified the police . . . yet.
Any thoughts?
Cheers, M
You are a ****ing superb father.
My thoughts:
She has self-diagnosed as a Kleptomaniac. Hide your valuables in the same way you'd hide the booze if an alcoholic came round.
CAMHS is very, very underfunded at the moment. You may have to put your hand in your pocket if you want timely, effective help for your daughter.
Good luck. You're doing all the right things IMO.
Sounds like you handled a difficult situation very well. I held back from commenting on this thread before as frankly I had nothing that I thought would be helpful.
Wow, nice bloke!
I'd agree with not pressing charges, a criminal record at this early stage wouldn't be a wise thing to carry for the rest of her life, certainly when she's starting out.. after that, she's left, well it's her choice which way she goes..
As for not rigging the CCTV, well done. It wasn't needed and you knew that.
Hope all goes well over the next 6months, now is the time to put a [i]lot[/i] of effort rebuilding trust.. you are in a great place to start.
I wish my parenting was as thoughtful and balanced as yours.
Best wishes for your daughter.
Great Dad
Great to hear how this is playing out. Well done
I'd agree with not pressing charges
It's a bit bizarre that any parent would entertain the idea even, given the story here. Taking that route would achieve nothing and almost certainly drive a massive wedge between the family. The only rationale for pressing charges would be if you wanted or expected never to see her again.
Good work fella, well played.
"It's a bit bizarre that any parent would entertain the idea even, given the story here."
My Great-Great Grandfather shopped his son over earings stolen from him by his son in the mid C19th. The son got 12 months hard labour.
History hasn't recorded the detail so I'm assuming both did what they thought was best at the time 'cos my ancestors can do no wrong AFAIC.
@bodgy - Been type1 for 44 years now. Boy am I starting to pay the price of sometimes less than stellar control. I feel for her. I know how it made me feel amongst my peers as a teenager. I don't want to bang on but she has to get a handle on this or it will come back to bite her on the bum in later years. I now have end stage kidney failure and live at the hospital 3 afternoons a week for around 5 hours on dialysis. All the best to her & yourself.
Brilliant OP, really happy you got them back and you seem to have handled things very very well.
Okay, all; Question for the hive-mind:
As per this thread, we know that Daughter
- is a compulsive liar
- a self confessed kleptomaniac
- attempted suicide a couple of months ago
- is not engaging with CAMHS (missed two appointments as it turns out, and is lying about that to her mother)
- is refusing to attend/engage with the counselling that I have arranged privately
and given that we have serious trust issues within my household, should I deny her access to my home until she has shown a willingness to engage with the counselling / CAMHS? I am aware that it is giving out a very mixed message to say that 'we want to help, support and nurture her . . . but terms and conditions apply'.
Confused about this. Any thoughts?
Cheers all, M.
Brilliant dad +1.
I was a shit for a while when young ( after a divorce too) I stole money & shoplifted .
I wish you had been there to deal with me.
Bravo.
