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Happy Birthday!
Could I respectively propose that all discussion of this particular subject be suspended unitl Monday, being the first business day following Mark's birthday. 🙂
Might as well close the chat FORUM
TBH it might do me some good, a few others as well.
Having just read through what I think is the thread at the root of this, it's 11 posts of pretty standard STW "political discourse" and nothing too controversial (IMO). Some polarised views in evidence but it hadn't descended as far as many other threads do without closure...
there should have been a mod post about the decision to ban any discussion of the situation.
Agreed, it feels a bit odd for STW mods to stamp on this one topic...
I’d prefer we all just chat bikes, pizza ovens, vans, coffee, investment and trousers like normal 😂
In all seriousness the easiest way for a forum of people that on most days kind of get on to collapse is to discuss politics.
I’d support the forum mods to just make a statement to stay away from politics altogether and focus on why we came here in the 1st place.
Does anybody remember the allottment thread???
This is a mountain biking forum run by a magazine – keep some perspective!
but nothing’s going to be achieved by a bunch of opinionated white middle aged men getting all hufty about it on a bike forum
mrlebowski
It’s a not dissimilar situation to Trump complaining about being ‘censored’ on FB & Twitter. It’s their train set & their rules..
I prefer though, for attitudes to be aired & examined than driven underground where they can fester unchallenged. A tricky one – give something the O2 of publicity or starve it of exposure in the hope it goes away?
It’s a bit of a shame. There are many topics where I regard STW as my primary news source (UK politics, Covid amongst them). Discussions that contain disagreement often tease out and explore views and facts the MSM either ignore or just don’t have the time to fully report on.
Exactly my thoughts. I read a number of MSM papers, this forum can often provide other insights or views that I don’t read elsewhere. Yes, it’s unquestionably a contentious & uncomfortable issue to talk about – but shouldn’t we be able to cope with such things? Sometimes the only way you can deal with certain attitudes is to flush them out & challenge them. Having said that if the powers that be don’t wish for that to happen here then it’s up to them.
Ultimately it's down to the powers that be ... as other have said this has been a far more reliable source of COVID news than any of the MSM.
The sad fact is that some people don't like discussing certain things and experience has shown that the easiest way not to discuss it is to fling subtle insults in the hope of escalating to to get the thread closed.
Frankly, I'm amazed no-one has blamed the eBikers yet...
Or horse riders or walkers
I was disappointed that the thread was closed down. I want to know more about the subject and amongst the comments from people being dicks there would be plenty of useful comments from people on here who understand elements of the situation well.
I fully understand why it is easier to shut the conversation down.
Can anyone suggest where should I go to get a sensible view of the issues?
Happy birthday Mark!
Can anyone suggest where should I go to get a sensible view of the issues?
I'd recommend reading almost anything on the area by the late Robert Fisk...great historical, as well as more recent, perspective
Pity the Nation for example...tho about Lebanon, it explains the whole situation well. And there's a whole bunch of more recent stuff he wrote for the Independent
Thanks for the recommendation, it is much appreciated
Robert Fisk will give you a pretty slanted view, the inaccuracies in his reporting gave rise to the verb "to fisk". I have some of his books, but treat them as a point of view rather than gospel. When something becomes controversial even those with the best of intentions tend to get caught up in one side's version.
Any author will give you a slanted view, which you'll agree with or not depending on your world view. The poster asked for a recommendation...I gave one as a starting point. You gave nothing.
I doubt the issue I question will be resolved by us on STW.
Other people have tried for 70 years and failed.
I picked up that Fisk sat more on one side of the fence quite quickly but he seems to be well respected for his understanding, I guess I probably need another reference point slanted more the other way to get some balance or at least understand which may be must true.
I need to be careful because I have my own preconception - I think I have a reasonable idea of the issues, I think I know who is behaving more badly but I know I want to spend more time to understand.
I think there was something of a "pile-on" after his death with some journalists (some from the region) more or less accusing him of sitting at home and making stuff up, with another couple of articles backing up his (Fisk's) writing.
Books I'd recommend
1. Friedman "From Beirut to Jerusalem" It's 20 years old now (bloody hell!) but still worth a read, same wars/period/factions as Pity the Nation without Fisk's romantic overlay he has for Lebanon
2. Rather than Pity the Nation, Fisk's "The Great War for Civilization" It's a massive collection of everything from ****stan all the way to Africa charting politics and war...massive but thorough
3. Daniel Yergin's "The Prize" won a Pulitzer, and it's a gripping read. It's about oil, not just in middle east, but looks at the economies of those countries, and more importantly perhaps, the haves and have nots...
4. And "What Went Wrong" by Bernard Lewis...Now, this last one...it's a bit neo-con (You've been warned!) but it's worth it to get into the mindset of the Blair/Bush years
Hopefully all of you pushing for more discussion, arguments and free speech are prepared to give up your time to act as moderators for free?
Having to decide when lines have been crossed, one eye on potential legal repercussions, seems a great way to spend your free time.
Maybe it was closed prematurely, but probably easier for the mods and the site owners.
Maybe they knew it would turn into a round and round competition of trying to prove who is more politically savvy than the others, I’m cleverer than you! I can type longer! I can do more embedded quotes!
Yep the same old people on here desperate to be relevant - yawn!
Can anyone recommend a forum for people who ride bikes that like to talk about bikes?
I once tried to read this. Totally impregnable and never got past the first chapter. Chomsky at his frustrating worst. 🙂
Agree there should have been a mod post about the decision to ban any discussion of the situation
May I be of assistance.
Sometimes we take the easy option. Experience tells us that certain subjects will cause arguments, unpleasant comments and take a up far too much of our time. Then of course there is the underlining fact this is a privately owned platform so topics can be closed at will.
What really isn’t helpful is when your thread has been closed is opening a new one or asking why on the forum as it puts us back on square one.
Hopefully all of you pushing for more discussion, arguments and free speech are prepared to give up your time to act as moderators for free?
How do you know we don't already? 😉
Personally, I would like a wee explanation of why threads are closed, as a final post.
Given there’s only one public mod left I think explanations being posted is unlikely.
Exactly. If the thread was closed by [not Drac] then that's never gonna happen.
In any case, this is an eons-old argument which I can be blunter about now that I'm no longer a moderator. The mods are volunteers and don't owe you anything. I - we - they - are all well aware of what the userbase would like and I always at least tried to remember to put something in before closing a thread, but sometimes it just needs a bullet.
Hopefully all of you pushing for more discussion, arguments and free speech are prepared to give up your time to act as moderators for free?
It's weird and was ever thus. In the blue corner you've got people wanting more moderation, in the red corner you've got people complaining that moderation is too heavy-handed. That suggests to me that they're doing something right.
What really isn’t helpful is when your thread has been closed is opening a new one or asking why on the forum as it puts us back on square one.
I remember when that was a immediate banning offence. Standards are slipping. I blame the parents.
Hahahahaha!!!!! You’re kidding right? Couldn’t be more liberal biased on here if you tried.
You say that like it's a bad thing. If you're sitting there thinking "STW is great but what we really need on this forum for balance is more overt racists" then might I recommend Pistonheads?
who decide what we should be allowed to think and talk about
The mods have always decided what you can talk about and how you can say it - it's right there in the rules that you agreed to abide by when you signed up. And given that their name is all over the webpages on which your posts appear, this is entirely reasonable.
However they don't tell you what to think. I do that.
I remember when that was a immediate banning offence. Standards are slipping. I blame the parents.
I’ve been on nights so playing catch up. I blame Scotroutes.
It's a shame we can't, but I understand why.
I agree that the covid thread (I think I have read every post) is great, but it would be far less useful and entertaining if it was just Tired posting graphs. The interaction and mostly good natured arguing is what makes it good.
This may be poking the hornets nest, but what is it about the particular long running middle eastern disagreement between followers of 2 Ibrahimic religions that provokes such results from a group that is almost entirely composed of white, nominally Christian Europeans?
This may be poking the hornets nest,
It is congratulations on me now having to monitor a thread.
Hahahahaha!!!!! You’re kidding right? Couldn’t be more liberal biased on here if you tried.
It's bit of an American slant, but this:
Fisk’s “The Great War for Civilization” It’s a massive collection of everything from ****stan all the way to Africa charting politics and war…massive but thorough
Agree...a superb book but less focussed on the Middle East...great read tho
It's a shame Antony Beevor hasn't written on the Middle East...or has he?
i'm sorry you feel that dicking about with Gazza/gyoza/Giza/GZA created problems. It was trying to have a laugh, OK it's a tetchy subject (Gaza, not Gazza) but I'd hate to think we can't have fun even in serious times. I'm not aware anyone was hijacking them for nefarious hidden discussion about <that>, your customers were playing fair.
i’m sorry you feel that dicking about with Gazza/gyoza/Giza/GZA created problems.
I think you’ve misunderstood.
so explain, if you can?
so explain, if you can?
It's funny once. Then it's taking the piss.
I would actually like to have read a topic on the matter but it's simply not realistic to have one unfortunately. Everyone knows where it'll end and so I don't see the mods as having any choice on this one.
STW is my toxic free* home on the web and that's how I'm happy with it to remain.
*At its absolute worst it's not even remotely close to the cesspit that is Twitter/ fb etc.
“This may be poking the hornets nest,”
It is congratulations on me now having to monitor a thread.
Sorry. Was hoping to get “why are we arguing about this” to be a separate conversation to actually arguing about it. I can see this is probably not going to be the case.
I’ll duck out of this thread now. Everyone else please ignore my question and let’s go back to arguing about wheelsize.
so explain, if you can?
Well, I was referring to the “Why was my post closed?” Type threads. The parody ones can be funny but also annoying after the first one.
Sorry. Was hoping to get “why are we arguing about this” to be a separate conversation to actually arguing about it. I can see this is probably not going to be the case.
That was my concern yes but everyone seems to be behaving.
so explain, if you can?
Diminishing returns.
There's currently eleven closed threads on the front page, all of which someone had to take time out of their day to close because a) they're content-bereft aside from the original lame gag and b) they gum up the forum. The first one is vaguely amusing, the tenth is a pain in the bollocks.
Our Man in the Middle East on BBC Sounds gives an interesting overview of recent times in the region, BTW.
Hopefully all of you pushing for more discussion, arguments and free speech are prepared to give up your time to act as moderators for free?
Yeah, I'd be happy to do that. Has to be said I do wonder how mods are chosen on the forum... it's all a bit secret society, hopefully more masonic than templar. Secret handshakes, ok; templar anus kissing, overkill for an MTB forum 🙂
...
What is it they say of subjects you should never talk about down the pub ?, Football, Religion, Politics 😕
templar anus kissing
This probably will put most off thinking of helping out, but what goes on in the 'Members Only' section is now open to wild speculation.
It’s funny once. Then it’s taking the piss.
Nah, the more the better it gets. I thought last night's selection was excellently creative.
This probably will put most off thinking of helping out, but what goes on in the ‘Members Only’ section is now open to wild speculation.
You have to be in it, to be in it. So to speak.
Cougar
Full Member
Hahahahaha!!!!! You’re kidding right? Couldn’t be more liberal biased on here if you tried.
You say that like it’s a bad thing. If you’re sitting there thinking “STW is great but what we really need on this forum for balance is more overt racists” then might I recommend Pistonheads?
I used to like Pistonheads, until the fateful day I decided to have a peek at the News, Politics and Economics subforum.........
I also spend time on TDPRI, a guitar forum with a ban on religious and political posts.
It makes a refreshing change, tbh.
The only 'Magic Grandad' they seem to mention is Leo Fender.