[Closed] Casual racists

That there wiki article about 'chinky' as in food, is quite interesting and pretty much sums up this whole thread, a damn sight more succinctly than we have!

It didn't upset me, I was just making a [s]simple[/s] daft point.

FTFY.

Should we have been offended?

Why do you feel the need to feign confusion - pretty obvious that if neither of you are bothered by being called black or ginger then there is no issue. If you were then there is an issue. Pretty simple really.

using chinky if you didnt know it offends people does not make you a racist, of course not.

using it after someone pointed out that some people are offended makes you a defacto racist.

Well, no, it doesn't. It means that you're choosing ignore the fact that someone else finds your turn of phrase offensive. There are many reasons why you might choose do this, "because you're a racist" is a possibility but it is most certainly not a "de facto" conclusion.

Whilst it's not a term I particularly like, as I've said before, it's a huge old leap from "using a word someone else doesn't approve of" to actually being racist. Being insensitive is not the same as being racist. I use the c-word occasionally, it doesn't make me a misogynist.

And anyroad. If you were racist, you wouldn't be eating that foreign muck in the first place.

And that's from the Wiki page

Not sure that Wikipedia is evidence of anything...was the last person who edited a member of the BNP? Probably not...possibly...don't know.

How does it prove that the term isn't offensive or racist?

Personally if you know that some people of a certain ethnicity would be offended if you used a term to describe a retail outlet of the same ethnicity. You can either continue to use it or not...your approach tells people different things;

A) You're a racist or a moron, or both.
B) You're neither and have learned the error of your ways.

It's your choice. Drac for example has made it clear what his choice would be, so other people can decide which of the options in A) applies to him. I suspect that a Chinese person would probably just assume he's racist, he appears to be ok with that but would like everyone to know on the forum that he isn't a racist.

"It didn't upset me, I was just making a [s]simple[/s] daft point."

FTFY.

Go on then. I'll bite. why do you think that it's daft? I though it was quite a neat little point.

Not sure that Wikipedia is evidence of anything...was the last person who edited a member of the BNP? Probably not...possibly...don't know.

Remembering back to my GCSE history*, it would be secondary evidence, and the references that it refers to would be both primary and secondary evidence themselves. I think that makes it worthy of note, at least.

*It was a while ago and I'm happy to be corrected...

I wasn't aware that ginger was a race any more than blonde or brunette and as Ive already pointed out there seems to be nothing wrong with using black either.

Ive already pointed out there seems to be nothing wrong with using black either.

But what if someone tells you that they find it offensive? (examples of which are available earlier in the thread) Should you stop using the term forevermore for risk of being branded a moron, or worse, a monobrowed casual racist?

FWIW, I completely agree with you.

. I suspect that a Chinese person would probably just assume he's racist

In my experience they haven't but this thread has pointed out that others may find it offensive and even seem me as a racist others even of none oriental origin think I am, although I suspect some are just stirring. I'm not really Ok with it as I'm certainly not racist but people have pointed out that I may appear to be if I'd continued to use it. However, like bad taste jokes, swearing and other inappropriate behaviour which we're all guilty of at times it's about choosing when to do it so not to offend others. To me that's the difference, to me a racist wouldn't care when they acted inappropriately.

[quote=v8ninety ]Ive already pointed out there seems to be nothing wrong with using black either.
But what if someone tells you that they find it offensive? (examples of which are available earlier in the thread) Should you stop using the term forevermore for risk of being branded a moron, or worse, a monobrowed casual racist?
FWIW, I completely agree with you.
Do they completely boycott the Music Of Black Origin awards and all the artists that support it - or is that OK because the word has been abbreviated? Should we therefore just call black people B's. I'm sure that would go down well.

If I went oop north and heard someone use the word in question in the manner described, I'd be a bit shocked. Then a combination of no racist behaviour and everyone else oop north using the same term would lead me to think "that's not a racist word up here". And if I suggested going to the chippy instead, and they all looked at me aghast and attacked me for using a vile slur term for Christians (Jesus being a carpenter n' all) I'd be upset, more than a bit defensive, but stop using the word.

(Until I got back home.)

all i know is when i was a kid and i was pinned down and had the crap beaten out of me by some kids chanting chinky bastard, i wasn't keen.

This whole degradation of the term racist and it's use to describe petty rudeness and name calling is what is at issue here.
Racist is the word used to describe Hitler and it's application not only to an actual race, it was also a religious group that he attempted to wipe out. So describing a name caller in the same vein is a tad overkill.

Racism isn't always to do with skin colour and imv it is part of the human condition as a part of human tribalism upon which the very basis of society is formed.

Rudeness is what is at issue here, it is no different to what some of you football fanbois call supporters of other teams if you pursue the logic of it.

We don't use the term Chinky down in this part of the world so it's obviously a more regional slang term, but it's no different to Taffy, or Jock, or Paddy or Pikey or Ginga. Or Lofty for tall people or tich for short folk, or bender and queer for gay folk, they are all offensive terms if the offended choose to take offence and they are all in daily use by lots of people with no serious offensive intent.

There's a case in the news today of some woman on a reality TV show referring probably quite innocently to one of the other contestants who she happened to admire, as thinking it was a monkey coming from the jungle, it's not clear from the pictures wether or not the guy she was referring to was black or mixed race, but she probably didn't for the first minute mean it in that context but she is now in the middle of a 'race' row for the benefit of the media and the twitterati and professionally offended.

That is the danger of all this, being rude is not the same as wiping out an entire race, there needs to be moderation in the descriptive use of the term racist and racism, casual or otherwise. If there were a greater desire for folk not to be just plain rude, or a realisation in certain terms that rudeness for ironic effect is/was part and parcel of British culture, then maybe we'd all feel less discomfort about the application of 'political correctness'.

they are all offensive terms if the offended choose to take offence and they are all in daily use by lots of people with no serious offensive intent.

davidjones15 - Member
they are all offensive terms if the offended choose to take offence and they are all in daily use by lots of people with no serious offensive intent.

Of all the stupid things I've seen here. It's all the victim's fault, is it?
It's a good job not all cocks think the same as this.

Yes if you choose to be a victim, just as I choose not to be offended by your assertion that I'm a 'cock' and will not report your post for so doing, the key to this is wether the use of whatever word you choose to insert was meant to be offensive. My point being that clearly oop north folk regularly use the word go for a chinky instead of say going for a chinese as we tend to down here, it doesn't make them racists, casual or otherwise.

igrf - in general terms I think you are correct. However, some words simply become associated with racist behaviour and so go out of use. If those that are a bit more sensitive do a little bit to promote this, it can't be a bad thing. For instance, if you moved to a village somewhre and found them using the word ****, would you still think that was OK or has that one become so obviously wrong that you'd expect everyone to know about it by now?

Why do you think you can decide who is or isn't a victim? Where's the limit? How do you decide?
I thought we left this kind of attitude back in the last century.

My point being that clearly oop north folk regularly use the word go for a chinky instead of say going for a chinese as we tend to down here, it doesn't make them racists, casual or otherwise.

Look...certain people are obviously ok with the risk of being labelled as racist. Lets just close this thread an move on.

To help here's a link that will replicate what will happen if this thread isn't closed.

[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/casual-racists ]Round in Circles...[/url]

Chuckling at the irony of calling someone a cock on a thread pretty much specifically about derogatory name calling...

I think this thread is done now. Pity, it was fun

Who are you Nukeproofing? You rocked up a couple of weeks ago and have since been prolific. Banned and a new login?

In all honesty, I couldn't care less about your opinion, nor your view that I'm too much of a noob to post anything.

Could I have made it any clearer that that comment was - get this - a joke.
I'd hardly call me posting an observation about school kids misbehaving abroad 'xenophobia'. How dull are you man? Lighten up seriously. Or attack the OP of that thread - he must be xenophobic too. I grew up in Portsmouth, surrounded by 'french' jokes - have you ever been to a pub in calais? They tell jokes about Portsmouth. It's not a point of grievance, it's just for a laugh.

Chuckling at the irony of calling someone a cock on a tread pretty much specifically about derogatory name calling...

Cougar - Member
I'm not sure "riff-raff" is a race, you know.

It's not a race i've heard of, imagine the 110m hurdles would be funny to watch tho.

Cock is a term of endearment in this part of the world.

Uhuh, but it's pretty clear from the context that that wasn't how [i]you[/i] meant it, was it?

Making it a whole level more offensive than the use of chinky to innocently describe a Chinese takeaway, IMHO.

[b]rac·ism[/b]
[[b]rey[/b]-siz-uh?m]
[i]noun[/i]
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

If the word being used has any of the above intent behind it, then the person using it is a racist. HTH.

Uhuh, but it's pretty clear from the context that that wasn't how you meant it, was it?

So Using Chinky to describe food, as in ordering a chinky is not considered racist (by most).

Using Chinky to describe a person is considered racist (by most).

And using the term to describe the food or person may/may not automatically mean the user is a default racist.

Gonna sleep like a baby tonight.

Could I have made it any clearer that that comment was - get this - a joke.

Aaahhhhh, The Edinburgh Defence. Bravo sir. Well played.

It's all makes sense (now you have had chance to realise how much of a cock it made you sound)

I grew up in Portsmouth, surrounded by 'french' jokes - have you ever been to a pub in calais? They tell jokes about Portsmouth. It's not a point of grievance, it's just for a laugh.

Having grown up bullied at times for being French (half, but the distinction in 70s and 80s Hull wasn't of importance) and having a mother that spoke differently to all the other women, I don't find it quite so amusing as you clearly do. Edukator makes his point badly sometimes but his point is any joke based on race, sexuality, age, country of origin etc has the possibility to upset people. Okay, you're not xenophobic or racist (I don't know you, not going to sling insults) but there's a degree of irony that you're getting upset because Edukator said you might be but don't understand why he might get upset.

Ah - he was pissed. That makes it perfectly excusable.

You are a deeply difficult, contrary human being. I know reading between the lines is not something you are particularly skilled at but I'll help you.

Edukator it seemed was looking for someone else to attack ( a mainstay of this forum) by borrowing a post from another thread and singling out the individual responsible for the post. I perceived this as being a Rather unpleasant action so in an attempt to diffuse the accusations I tried to offer an explanation of sorts. Feeble it may have been but quite frankly if it deterred the online bullying which so many of you big hitters have become synonymous with now, then more the better.

Ah - he was pissed. That makes it perfectly excusable.

You are a deeply difficult, contrary human being. I know reading between the lines is not something you are particularly skilled at but I'll help you.

Edukator it seemed was looking for someone else to attack ( a mainstay of this forum) by borrowing a post from another thread and singling out the individual responsible for the post. I perceived this as being a Rather unpleasant action so in an attempt to diffuse the accusations I tried to offer an explanation of sorts. Feeble it may have been but quite frankly if it deterred the online bullying which so many of you big hitters have become synonymous with now, then more the better.

Having learnt from the person you're defending, get over it.

Having grown up bullied at times for being French (half, but the distinction in 70s and 80s Hull wasn't of importance) and having a mother that spoke differently to all the other women, I don't find it quite so amusing as you clearly do. Edukator makes his point badly sometimes but his point is any joke based on race, sexuality, age, country of origin etc has the possibility to upset people. Okay, you're not xenophobic or racist (I don't know you, not going to sling insults) but there's a degree of irony that you're getting upset because Edukator said you might be but don't understand why he might get upset.

Fair point, and apologies if you found it offensive. It was said with the biggest dose of irony and sarcasm possible. I have nothing against the french, or france. I go there on holiday, we have family friends who are french and have lived in france forever lol. It's just intended as banter, no different to when I call my mate a douche. I was bullied when I was young too. Doesn't mean I go around pulling everyone up on any joke they make that at some point was used against me at any point in my life though.

I just felt that calling me a bloody xenophobe was a huge overreaction to something that I made very clear, was a joke in bad taste. If I walked up to a french guy and said it without any suggestion that it was entirely a joke and had no substance, then that's a different thing all together.

I'd never read the original thread and for the most part, you have to just let it go. Between the red-tops and the funny people you encounter, you're kind of stuck with the lazy anti-French stuff. On the other hand, the vicious stuff you occasionally encounter is far more likely to offend but then again I guess that's the point.

Is it OK simply because a large proportion of the community use it?
Yes, it does make them racists.
I love these threads.

Probably not Ok and in reality it isn't used all that much up North, it's used by some. The comment may be offensive but it does not make them Racists for calling a food by a nickname. I'd love to hear how you think it does.

I have just read this thread and, by gawd, I want a Chinky tonight now.

Mmmm, Egg Fu Yung.

If you aren't aware of the connotations of a word then it's not the other person's fault for being offended.

I'd love to hear how you think it does.

After the huge international outrage when Top Gear made some light remarks about Mexican's, we should all now be well aware that we're not allowed to use or attempt to use humour in the context of other races or cultures.

So that means no banter about Mexican's beig lazy, the Scot's being mean, the Irish not being particularly bright, the French for being cowards (and the Italians come to think of it), the Americans for being loud and overweight, the Germans for being organised and lacking humour etc etc

I blame all those people who seem to go out of their way to be offended. And then tell everyone else what they are supposed to be offended by. Like those buffoons who think Muslims are offended by Christmas.

Because we're unlikely to call Audis- Kraut cars, or Cadillacs- Septic cars or The Stereophonics a Taffy band.

Ermm! That's not the same is it. Top of my head only car manufactured nickname I can think of is Vee Dub, it's a nickname for the manufacturer nothing to do with the origin same Chinkies for Chinese meal. Ok so Chinkies is also linked with the people but I don't call Chinese people a chinkie.

I'd never read the original thread and for the most part, you have to just let it go. Between the red-tops and the funny people you encounter, you're kind of stuck with the lazy anti-French stuff. On the other hand, the vicious stuff you occasionally encounter is far more likely to offend but then again I guess that's the point.

It wasn't intended to offend, it was obviously in a 'sarcastic' form of bad taste (that's kind of the point of some jokes). I've apologised, so... yeah that's all I can do really. Unfortunately the vicious jokes intended to offend, exist for a reason (on both sides of the pond). They exist because England and France were at each others throats for near on 800 years. Some people just can't move on, and it's usually the areas where people are struggling that harbor these bitter resentments.

My first comment however, was I believe a fair observation and something I've seen time and time again. It wasn't a criticism of any one country, but of bad behaving kids who just happened to be from country A not B.

If you aren't aware of the connotations of a word then it's not the other person's fault for being offended.

Ok, but on the other hand;

If you aren't aware of the connotations of a word then it's not your fault that the other person is offended.

(However if you find out that you offend someone, and yet persist, that is plain rude and inconsiderate, although probably still not racist.)

/kicks the server.

/kicks it harder.

These guys look pretty casual.. I'm not sure if they are actually racing though, or just out for a ride..

[img] [/img]

Ermm! That's not the same is it.