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Cars keyed, culprit...
 

Cars keyed, culprit caught. What's our legal position?

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Our family has had two cars keyed multiple times in a kerbside parking spot outside our house. After two incidents in one day we rigged up a CCTV camera and caught the culprit doing it within an hour. We ran out the house to confront a lady, hippyish 71 years of age, to see what she had to say. She immediately started saying she was looking for a black cat but then when I asked why she was keying the car  became hyper aggressive and sweary trying to deny it. She also said that she'd been in the pub all afternoon so how could it be her ? Essentially it was an incoherent, drunken rant.

Through a bit of amateur detective work we have her name and also the flat number in the sheltered housing at the end of our road. A police case has been opened but what happens now ? It's highly likely that she's got no money to pay for the badly damaged cars . Will it go to court ?

I noticed another neighbours car with a key mark down it this morning.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 10:32 am
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Good luck, but it seems doubtful you'll get your repairs paid for. Hopefully whatever police or court action is taken will at least scare her into stopping. But it sounds like she's got some addiction (and maybe other) issues, so there's no guarantee she'll stop. Crap situation.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 10:46 am
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It might go to court depending on how her mental state is viewed / assessed.  Probably it will in my guess

You also have the option of a civil case for damages.  who knows how much money she has stashed - if she sold a house to go into sheltered accommodation she might have loads

Otherwise - this is what insurance is for


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 11:08 am
leffeboy reacted
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I suspect that even if you win even court case and she has to pay for repairs and costs, given her situation you will get something like £5 a month until the £X,XXX is paid off.

Perhaps use tha Police Case number to get the insurance to pay out and then try to engage with the lady to understand why she is doing it and to persuade her that there are better things she can do?


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 11:15 am
granny_ring and Andy reacted
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Your insurance company may pursue her more successfully than you can after they have paid you. Either way i wouldn't go down the civil recovery route. My worry is what are the police / care home doing to stop this happening again? Do you know what the motivation was, pavement parking for example? Or is she just on some nutty crusade?


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 11:24 am
kelvin, leffeboy and Murray reacted
 poly
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Pretty much what TJ said.  If it was in Scotland the police would report to the procurator fiscal, the PF would probably pursue for malicious damage (equiv to crim. damage in E&W), they may offer a non-court resolution if she’s a first offender, not denying it, has the funds and you’ve made clear your priority is the cost rather than retribution.  If they don’t do that or she refuses, case goes to court.  Eventually it might get to trial (if she still denies it) but that could easily be 18 months from now.  You would need to give evidence.  Then IF convicted one option available to the court is to make her pay compensation, but unless she’s cash rich, probably will take a couple of years before you see the money.  So could be 3-4 yrs after the offence before you get a penny, and lots of opportunities along the way for someone to use their discretion and decide she’s got MH issues, no money etc and there’s a better way to resolve (or for an old woman with alcohol issues to die), or a lawyer to find an evidence issue etc.

you could pursue a civil case - but if she’s denying the criminal matter might need that to resolve before a decision.  Then if you win that, you’ll need to actually extract the money which will be a lot of hassle unless she cooperates.

situation in E&W will be similar but with even bigger court backlogs!

Personally I’d claim on insurance, make sure the police know the excess cost so if the court want to impose a  compensation order they have a figure to use, then move on.  Being angry about it for months or years probably does you more harm than her.  I’d also wonder if there was a specific reason your vehicle was targeted.  That’s not to excuse what she has done - but usually there’s a reason if it’s a neighbour (bad driving, loud noise, poor parking) and they’ve done one specific car, and no real MH issue.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 11:35 am
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Her motivation, if I were to use twisted logic and have guess, is possibly that she and her husband on crutches walk up and down the road multiple times a day instead of using the path next to it. They would have to walk around the car on their journey.  It's a kerbside spot that loads of people use. Not obstructive in any way and no wheels on the kerb as it's banked grass. My guess is lots of cars have been done.

She is without doubt a nutter with issues.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 11:37 am
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this is what insurance is for
well yes but depending on specifics might be treated as a fault claim and/or OP may lose no-claims as no other insurance to claim against. Plus if it happens again after getting fixed it’s going to get real old real fast. So ideally needs to be nipped in the bud and not just ignored. Or OP will just have to park elsewhere 🤷‍♂️

It’s a kerbside spot that loads of people use. Not obstructive in any way and no wheels on the kerb as it’s banked grass.
ok now I’m confused. How/where are you actually parked? Legally?


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 11:38 am
J-R reacted
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Leave it with the police but check with them time to time to make sure theres at least a bit of progress. Maybe even try to get a crime number or such on the pretext of giving that to your insurance company, where at least this will show them its not some random scrote and the culprit has been caught.

Keep the cctv running just in case she'd not convinced she's in the wrong. And possibly even report her to social services. If she has a severely disabled husband, is she really competent to look after him, and maybe more help is required.

I suppose maybe the stress of an ailing husband is doing more to cause this that old age as 71 is hardly ancient.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 12:05 pm
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Ok, I'm detecting an undercurrent of victim blaming here. Let me try to clear up some specifics.

It's a cul de sac. The sheltered housing is at the end. All the other houses are down one side of the road, of which we are one. The side of the road without housing is kerbed with a grassy strip of approximately one meter and then the pathway the other side. This is where cars park alongside the kerb and the incident occurred. At the moment there are three cars parked there, each of them likely candidates for a good keying.

My dad was visiting for an hour yesterday and got keyed . She's indiscriminate. She can't see what car is with what house from where she lives.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 12:09 pm
J-R reacted
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Definitely one for the police. All incidences need reporting. It's not going to end well for anyone as the multiple instances will put everyone's premiums up (postcode rating).

CCTV and signage is a very good idea.

You'll need to report it to your insurer as a malicious damage incident. They'll treat it as fault unless they can recover the costs from the person responsible. So the police details and investigation etc are going to be very important I'd say.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 12:15 pm
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Dogshit through her letterbox?

Shout 'you filthy old bag' whenever you see her?


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 12:15 pm
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Ok, I’m detecting an undercurrent of victim blaming here

Yes, I can see how that might be inferred from my post, maybe others. I was asking more in the context of whether there is anything else you could do to avoid a repeat, the legal system isn't going to help much and not having it happen time after time has to be your first priority. From what you've described you are parking fully on the road, there is a kerb and grass strip between your car and the pavement, so probably short of parking somewhere else not a lot you can change.

Personally I'd like the system to come down her like a tonne of bricks, what colour of bricks would depend on her mental capacity, but too much crime and is left on the shoulders of victims because mental health issues. Doesn't get your car repaired does it but it's a lot easier for the authorities to not tackle the problems.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 12:20 pm
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No worries Stumpyjon. As you suggested all cars are now parked elsewhere. I have now become a curtain twitcher concerned for the other cars parked on the same stretch. Hopefully being caught and confronted yesterday will put an end to it but witnessing her reaction I'm not so sure.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 12:27 pm
kelvin reacted
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is possibly that she and her husband on crutches walk up and down the road multiple times a day instead of using the path next to it. They would have to walk around the car on their journey

just a thought looking for her motivation - is the footpath bit actually suitable to walk on if you have mobility issues - ie broken and uneven ground rather than the nice smooth road?  or is the pavement blocked in other sections?


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 12:32 pm
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TJ, the footpath is fine however given his mobility issues I'm sure the road is the easier option with no drop kerbs or slopes to navigate. It's a very quiet road and most people, including myself, walk on the road with no issue.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 12:59 pm
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Re insurance, my policy (LV) says that for damage caused by vandalism you pay the excess but don't lose your NCD. Other policies will be different, and the cost may not exceed the excess.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 1:00 pm
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Get the kids to throw dirtballs at her.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 1:03 pm
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Destroy her. Socially, mentally and physically.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 1:33 pm
funkmasterp, BoardinBob, ayjaydoubleyou and 1 people reacted
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Sheltered housing? Talk to the organisation, or the warden if there's one. There may be other examples of anti-social behaviour that could make this the tipping point for them, or they may be able to offer up a bit more of a reason for it.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 1:37 pm
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Important to get the police involved, a formal caution (if you have solid video) and a stern word from a copper may help, and it will be on record for future scrapes. Also any warden at the accommodation.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 2:04 pm
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Damage is an insurance matter - its what you pay premiums for.

Criminal aspect is a Police matter - its what you pay taxes for.

Anything else is just (probably uninformed) speculation.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 2:11 pm
kelvin, felltop and leffeboy reacted
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Wouldn't this be almost textbook ASBO territory? They're not just for youngsters! 😃


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 2:18 pm
FuzzyWuzzy reacted
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Leave savage comments on her social media posts.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 2:32 pm
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Destroy her. Socially, mentally and physically.

Calm down dear.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 2:32 pm
kelvin reacted
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It's a criminal matter, and for the courts to decide culpability. Leave it for the police to sort.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 4:00 pm
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Wouldn’t this be almost textbook ASBO territory? They’re not just for youngsters!

I seem to recall that at one point more pensioners had ASBOs than teenagers, which was probably just an urban myth.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 4:02 pm
 poly
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Wouldn’t this be almost textbook ASBO territory? They’re not just for youngsters! 😃

Asbo’s no longer exist in England (and we’re always used differently in Scotland).  There are replacements but: 1. They would be looking for a pattern of behaviour; 2. The most common order would be to ban someone from the area.  If it’s a cup-de-sac that she lives on that sounds like it would not be viable.  Regardless, without cops available to enforce it an ASBO is worthless.

to be 100% clear I was not victim blaming earlier, but the vast majority of malicious damage committed by people over 25 is done with a “purpose” / “reason” rather than random/bored/fun.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 4:06 pm
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If you parked at a location that is not meant for parking or blocking their path etc

Then nothing much you can do apart from going by the law and probably end up having to claim insurance.

Alternatively, assuming she is mentally well and she did it to teach you a lesson ... (not recommended but if you have red mist or suffer from mental health as a consequences of her action then let it out)

Destroy her. Socially, mentally and physically.

Remember to tell her to show appreciation for your efforts.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 4:38 pm
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Does the sheltered accommodation have a lawn? Sausages etc.

Being serious though it sounds as though she has some issues, so I'd personally use your insurance for the car and talk to the home management about it, there are probably ways for them to deal with this that are far more appropriate than anything the police could do (if she's routinely keying cars then presumably she doesn't have much respect for the rules / the law etc).

Re the parking spot - OP, any chance of putting a picture up? Not victim blaming, but just wondering what might have triggered her / how to avoid it without resorting to parking on another street.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 4:47 pm
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If it’s a cup-de-sac that she lives on that sounds like it would not be viable.

Let's be clear - I'm in no way advocating tea-bagging her.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 4:49 pm
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Key her cat?


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 4:53 pm
funkmasterp reacted
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Re insurance, my policy (LV) says that for damage caused by vandalism you pay the excess but don’t lose your NCD.

Don't make the mistake of thinking you won't still be penalised though. NCD is just one aspect of insurance rating, they will also rate on actual claims count too. In your case this should be a non-fault claim - so lower penalty than an accident - but you'll probably still see an increase in future years nonetheless.

You can play around with some quotes on a price comparison website to see what the likely difference will be before deciding whether it's worth claiming or not. Bear in mind that insurers typically consider 3 years of claim history.

It's a shit situation, but my instinct is that it's probably not worth claiming on insurance.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 4:58 pm
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Frozen sausages


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 5:14 pm
 DT78
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I wouldn't claim for damage, more than 2 claims in a 5 year period (maybe 3?) could mean you become uninsurable for some providers

as for the women, sucks but doubt there is much that can be done


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 5:34 pm
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I would find her family and make them aware, she may get sectioned or a restraining order.  Get her family to get to the underlying issue.  I wouldn't claim on insurance, or get into a dispute with an unstable local person who knows where you live.  She may escalate the situation and do something really stupid.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 7:08 pm
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How do you know she is 71 which seems fairly precise?


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 7:20 pm
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I'd suggest go along to the care home, ask to dpeak to management. Tell them you have proof and you want either the home/accommodation or her family to  cover all your costs to repair your car to original standard (i.e. proper repair, not dome cheap fix) rather than you go down "official" route which may be overly stressful for the old woman. Make it their problem, and make it very clear that their failure to act will result in her facing a lot of stress as a result of that failure. Do they want that on them?


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 7:27 pm
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you want either the home/accommodation or her family to cover all your costs to repair your car to original standard

Pretty sure a sheltered housing provider isn't legally responsible for the actions of its residents, especially those that take place off the premises.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 7:31 pm
J-R reacted
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Nor has her family.  The home has no responsibility and if you try that any reputable home will tell you where to go.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 7:38 pm
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Bum her dog and then leave a scathing review on TripAdvisor.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 8:09 pm
funkmasterp reacted
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Lots of people talking about motivations. She's likely mentally ill, no more no less. Probably at least as much of a victim as the OP.

Someone once did all the cars on our street top to bottom (or I suppose, bottom to top) and that was a two mile long road I lived on about half of which was populated. There doesn't have to be a reason, some people are unhinged, some are just horrible.

Motivation doesn't matter here. What matters is repairs and prevention of reoccurrence. I'd be tempted just to park elsewhere, the choice of protecting my property vs letting her 'win' is a quandary.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 8:34 pm
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You can DIY small claims if you want to do a civil claim without paying a lawyer, just make sure you follow the process exactly (assuming you have evidence of scratch, evidence your loss etc, it will be decided on the balance of probabilities, not innocent until proven guilty like criminal)

You can keep reporting each incident to the police, make sure you hit the right key words so its recorded as a crime, not just a civil matter. Be aware they are rather under resourced, its unlikely to be a priority.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 10:28 pm
J-R reacted
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Also worth considering if you want a pissed off lunatic who knows where you live, and whether you want the agro/stress/time etc.


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 10:29 pm
binman reacted
 rsl1
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If you buy a machine dual action polisher for about £90 you could get the scratches out in maybe 10 minutes per car. Obviously you can't just keep doing that forever as you'll have no paint left, but there's no need for half the street to go through insurance and bump everyone's premiums


 
Posted : 06/08/2023 11:39 pm
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