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richc is far closer to the real state of affairs.
I know of one case involving a czech carpenter who the police decided to stop and search. In his tool bag he had 5 razor sharp chisels. And a small lock knife given to him by his girlfriend for peeling his fruit at lunch. As the lock knife was not a tool necessary for his job he was prosecuted successfully, although at least the court witheld any sentance or fine.
The knife was still in its packaging.
The law is an ass and the CPS are also being pushed by our dear politicians to prosecute to fudge the statistics.
But why are these people doing getting them confiscated? Where are they and what are they doing with them to bring their use to the attention of the police?
How many bikers do you know who have been stopped and searched by the police and having their emergency trail knife confiscated? How many forestry workers have been stopped in their cars on the way home from work and having tools confiscated?
I certainly know how many people I know that have that happen to them.
None.
I know of one case involving a czech carpenter who the police decided to stop and search. In his tool bag he had 5 razor sharp chisels. And a small lock knife given to him by his girlfriend for peeling his fruit at lunch. As the lock knife was not a tool necessary for his job he was prosecuted successfully, although at least the court witheld any sentance or fine.
And why was he stopped and searched? Your example only explains half of the situation in hand.
You can carry a blade/tool as large as you like...only if you can justify it's legit use to your trade. As said before 🙂
I carry a pocket knife, pruning saw, secateurs and sharpened trowel 😉
I used to carry a 4 inch knife on the bike, but hardly used it.
Personally, if you get any bother.. cut a bit of hazel with the secateurs and use that (nice 'n sharp}. Then build a shelter like Bear Grylls.
PMSL
at Fargo... Shredder 🙂
When several years ago I needed to transport an axe from Homebase to a garden I attached it to my rucksack. Not a single driver expressed any for of discontent for my being on the road on my pushbike. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?
I give up redthunder, the whole point is no you can't carry any lock knife even if its for work or not. Its an illegal weapon under UK law.
The whole line 'if you can justify it to the Police' is a myth you have to justify it to the court (in its strict interpretation). Just because you haven't been caught doesn't mean that its legal, same with people who haven't got a speeding ticket but go over the limit. It might be a surprise to you, but you can break the law and not get caught
The reason I found out about this was when my father (who is/was a Mechanic) was seen by a copper peeling an apple with his lockknife and got it confiscated and was told he was lucky not to spend a night in the cells. Even though he was outside a garage and it was a tool required for his job.
FFS you can get arrested (and people have been) for carrying a lock knife back from a supermarket/DIY store.
My mother - a meek and mild 70 yr old has [i]twice[/i] tried to get on aeroplanes carrying a 5" lockknife! Amazingly the knife was just taken off her and nothing more was said.
She is a biologist / botanist by trade and always has a knife in her handbag just in case she finds a specimen she wants! We have now persuaded her a swiss army knife will do! No more razer sharp opinal locknifes
No sensible cop would give two hoots about you carrying a Leatherman while you're out on your bike, or fishing.
Can't speak for the jobsworths though I'm afraid 🙂
richc - MemberI give up redthunder, the whole point is no you can't carry any lock knife even if its for work or not. Its an illegal weapon under UK law.
No, its not - it is not a de facto offensive weapon!
The reason I found out about this was when my father (who is/was a Mechanic) was seen by a copper peeling an apple with his lockknife and got it confiscated and was told he was lucky not to spend a night in the cells. Even though he was outside a garage and it was a tool required for his job.
Police have no power to confiscate - copper was a knob, your father should have said "go on, nick me then," and been happy with the compensation for an unlawful arrest
FFS you can get arrested (and people have been) for carrying a lock knife back from a supermarket/DIY store.
I'll wager that IF there were any cases where that was true, it would be because the mags/jury didn't believe a word of it (eg. chav late at night uses the walking home from the shops excuse) or because they copped a caution without arguing their case
I've carried knives most of my life, at least forty five years, including taking penknives to school! I used to carry various Spiderco knives with lovely serrated blades, but I lost a couple, and at fifty quid a pop, it got too pricey, plus I couldn't bear the thought of breaking the tip off a blade digging something out of a tyre. Now I carry a locking utility knife from Maplins, which is one of the most useful tools I have. It gets used for cutting strapping, zip-ties and cardboard boxes at work, I've taken the blade out and used it for scraping sticky labels off things, used the blunt edge as a screwdriver, and it gets called into use regularly to hack overgrowing brambles and rose-briars back when I'm out on the bike, and even riding home yesterday evening, when five foot of rose-briar blew right in front of my face! Considering that most knife crime is carried out with knives knicked from the family kitchen or shoplifted, getting bent out of shape over a knife with a blade an inch long just 'cos it locks is just stupid. The last thing I want is a seriously sharp edge snapping shut on my fingers when cutting something.
But why are these people doing getting them confiscated? Where are they and what are they doing with them to bring their use to the attention of the police?
Aha, but that's exactly the point - it's a vicarious use of discretion over whether to enforce the law. You're probably right to say that *you* would reasonably expect to be treated reasonably.
But some people who the cops don't like (youths, non-whites, stroppy people) would not be treated reasonably even if they were in the same situation as you, and could be prosecuted. So if they get done for it, they're not really being done for the knife, they're getting done for failing the "attitude test".
The reason I found out about this was when my father (who is/was a Mechanic) was seen by a copper peeling an apple with his lockknife and got it confiscated and was told he was lucky not to spend a night in the cells. Even though he was outside a garage and it was a tool required for his job.
Come on! What mechanic needs a lock knife to do his job? It would have been a fair point if it was a torque wrench or something!
Come on! What mechanic needs a lock knife to do his job?
More to the pint, WHY bother peeling an apple, FFS!
😉
Even better point! 😆
You can't peel an apple with a torque wrench, duh! 😀
I used to carry a leatherman whilst out on the bike, until the police started carrying out random searches at Victoria Station.
Was worried that I'd not be believed so stopped carrying it.
Now lives in the glove compartment of my car, which is probably even dafter, thinking about it.
When I was a kid in the Scouts carrying a sheath knife was positively encouraged. My dad bought me my first one when I was 11, to teach me how to use one responsibly.
I haven't stabbed anyone yet.
I haven't stabbed anyone yet.
There's still time!
😉
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3613174/The-policeman-found-my-penknife.-Youre-going-down-mate-he-said.html ]The policeman found my penknife. 'You're going down, mate,' he said[/url]
You can lead a horse to water and all that.....
Did you read the lawgazette article Zulu-Eleven? as it sounds remarkably like you are a copper who doesn't actually understand the law. Unless you know more than about the law than criminal lawyers, in which case you really should be writing articles for the law society and letting the Home secretary and her advisers know that they don't understand the legislation they wrote and put in place..
letting the Home secretary and her advisers know that they don't understand the legislation they wrote and put in place..
TBF, it wouldn't be the first time that the government writes a law which has consequences it didn't intend or understand...
That article is confusingly written. It says:
"A while back I asked the Home Office to clarify any ambiguity arising from whether or not a lock knife was illegal under this statute and it replied: ‘It is an offence to possess “lock knives” in a public place, irrespective of whether the blade is actually locked open at the time.’ "
but then right after it says:
"There are few ways to explain yourself out of lock knife possession in a public place. Unlike ‘reasonable excuse’ in the Prevention Of Crimes Act 1953, you have to show ‘good reason’ (section 139 of the 1988 act), which has a much tighter interpretation."
So actually by his own words the first statement by the Home Office is wrong: it's not that it's illegal to carry one, it's illegal to carry a locking knife unless you have "good reason" to carry one (whatever good reason is, that's a different discussion).
But afaics, if what he is saying is right, it does mean the "blanket OK" for 3 inch knives wouldn't apply to a 3 inch locking knife.
also, the "folding" part is confusing, because the ex-cop's article in the Law Gazette sounds like he's referring to Stanley knives, but they don't fold.
:confused:
*
RichC
Get thyself over to the following - far more extensive and far more complex that a pissy little poorly written alarmist article on Law Gazette
CPS Charging standards:
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/offensive_weapons_knives_bladed_and_pointed_articles/#a07
Bladed article caselaw:
http://www.wikicrimeline.co.uk/index.php?title=Possession_of_an_article_with_a_blade_or_point
Offensive weapon caselaw:
http://www.wikicrimeline.co.uk/index.php?title=Possession_of_an_offensive_weapon
As a basic rule - any knife is perfectly legal with good reason/reasonable excuse, there are additional statutory excuses such as work. As always, things depend on the circumstances as a whole in the individual case, but the caselaw links on wikicrimeline are pretty reflective of what you're likely to get done for. - at the same time, as a basic rule, carrying a sub 3" non locking knife is lawful at all times without excuse, but again circumstances may dictate that it could be found to be an offensive weapon. General advice therefore would be to carry only a non locking knife, unless you've got a reason to be carrying something else.
and FYI, I'm not a policeman - but an ex gamekeeper who spent years carrying round guns, knives, axes and assorted pointy things for various reasons and didn't once get into trouble with the police for doing so, not even for forgetting that I had live rifle ammo in my bag when getting on a flight (oops!) - but guess what, I didn't feel the need to carry a machete around in the vicious urban jungle when going shopping or to the pub in the evening - (possibly why I never had a problem with the police over it)
the problem isn't knives, its townies with knives ;o)