We in the UK have a generation of people who just clearly do not understand any form of law
Er, no, we don't.
My guess is that this is a reaction on how our people in authority behave, police and government. Maybe people have had enough of it, the last few years has been relentless.
The last few weeks is classic examples, Met lying about the “intelligence” they had regarding the rape alarms at the Coronation; Met lying about the placards the protestors had and arrested them; th e Cardiff Police lying about the police not being involved in a chase. It’s endless lies, I really could go on listing them.
There gets to a point where something snaps. Change is needed. This happens all over the world and is not limited to the UK. The authorities lie, the little people have no voice. This spills over into what we witnessed last night.
I’m not sure the kids rioting in Cardiff are that up to speed with the politics of the Met police over the past few weeks.
That’s not to say that what happened isn’t a tragedy, but two things can be true at once - the police force are a shambles with their communication following this event, and these kids shouldn’t have been messing about and the police are within their rights to prevent antisocial behaviour.
What I really want to know is who are these people who have balaclavas to hand, just in case there’s a riot in their street
I have several myself, you better come up and arrest me
Something happened locally in South Manchester, not dissimilar (no cops). Lad who was a well known trouble maker was part of the manslaughter of a local restaurant owner when they robbed his car and ran him over - so had form. Some months later, same lad robs another lads motorbike. Bike Lad finds out who it was (next village) chases him in his car and runs the robber off the road on the stolen bike. Said 'lovely boy' ends up dead. Local riots in next village from gangs.
FFS dick about, rob people and when it all goes wrong, blame someone else.
Personally I've had close calls a few times with idiots on Surrons.
If, as towpathman suggests, this may have been the police acting on anti-social behaviour I have no problem with that.
You might want to have a think if you think killing kids is ok. Anto social behaviour or not. Stuff like what fossy described happened 40 years ago as well as something very similar happened although the mopeds were petrol powered the, and that was in rural Fenland. Not sure it's similar to this except being a fatal crash for some kids
Really sad, and it doesn't help for the police to not get their story factually correct.
Very similar to the start of the Hartcliffe riots in Bristol in 1992:
https://thebristolcable.org/2022/07/30-years-since-the-hartcliffe-riots/
You might want to have a think if you think killing kids is ok
killing kids is bad. Them killing themselves because they are stupid is at best unfortunate or Darwin in action depending on your perspective
You might want to have a think if you think killing kids is ok.
Who said it was? Who said the police killed them?
One thing
Whose to say these 2 lads didn't want the police to chase them?
Go out and behave anti socially on an illegal electric motor bike, to deliberately get police involved.
Then instigate a chase, so you get full bragging rights on out running the po po
, sticking it to 'the man' etc.
Till they run out of talent at the wrong moment, then suddenly they are innocent victims, lovely, well mannered, polite boys who loved their mum.. Insert usual Daily Mail platitudes.
Facts are in short supply at present.
No-one has said the police killed the youths; there are accusations that police actions (may have) contributed to their deaths.
My money would be on the youths not being the...loveable, cheeky lads just out on their motorbike having fun as some family friend apologists have been saying.
Rioting. It's the working-class equivalent of a strongly worded letter.
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<p class="MuiTypography-root MuiTypography-body1 css-9l3uo3"><span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">I can never understand the logic of ‘sticking it to the man’ by burning all your own (already shit) immediate surroundings.</span></p>
Listening to the wireless at lunchtime it said it wasn’t locals that torched their own street, it was a social media thing, and people dropped by to join in the fun
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I’m not sure the kids rioting in Cardiff are that up to speed with the politics of the Met police over the past few weeks.
They don’t have to be. They simply have to have been exposed to the growing anti authoritarian movement that’s been particularly prevalent on social media over the past few years and has been fuelled even further by covid lockdowns.
It started off with those “freemen of the land” characters posting videos of them denying speeding charges etc as they quote some archaic text they have no real understanding of. Added to that you’ve got the anti lockdown brigade and their stance, helped unfortunately by the absolute shit behaviour of the tories (and others) to further erode confidence in our leaders and people of authority. The latest one is these clowns “auditing” police stations, courts etc and filming their exploits and posting to social media.
All this stuff is fuelling a very strong anti authority stance amongst young folk. I predicted it a couple of years ago but I may have gone too early, but I suspect we’ll see something resembling the poll tax riots back in the 90s this summer
TBH I found the cops' description of what happened as "massive public disorder" misleading and exaggerated. We're talking about a prolonged affray along two streets with two (2) cars smashed up. It's bad, but it's not Paris or Beirut. It's Millwall on a bad night.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/macron-faces-labour-day-protests-pension-reform-anger-festers-2023-05-01/
https://www.voanews.com/a/tear-gas-clashes-as-lebanon-protesters-try-to-storm-govt-hq/7016156.html
The last few weeks is classic examples, Met lying about the “intelligence” they had regarding the rape alarms at the Coronation; Met lying about the placards the protestors had and arrested them; th e Cardiff Police lying about the police not being involved in a chase.
Usual police bullshit: lie in the immediate aftermath, the rumour mill will take care of the rest. I heard the kids were no angels, that they were wearing heavy jackets, that they grabbed their pockets, that they jumped the turnstile...
Listening to the wireless at lunchtime it said it wasn’t locals that torched their own street, it was a social media thing, and people dropped by to join in the fun
So they ‘stuck it to the man’ by torching Sandra’s 15 year old Corsa so she can’t get to her cleaning job in the morning
Brilliant!
That’ll do it
politecamera - do you live in Milwall?
politecamera – do you live in Milwall?
I assume you are actually asking about Bermondsey. Millwall hasn't been in Millwall for over a century. (No).
How come I cannot see politecameraaction's profile?
Yeah bit weird that, what are they hiding?
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I heard the kids were no angels, that they were wearing heavy jackets, that they grabbed their pockets, that they jumped the turnstile…
How come I cannot see politecameraaction’s profile?
It's an option you can have too.
politecamera - you introduced Mil(l)wall into the thread; perhaps you should have been more accurate in your geographical referencing.
Returning to the topic - I disagree with you.
Them killing themselves because they are stupid is at best unfortunate or Darwin in action depending on your perspective
10 likes for a post that describes the death of these kids as "at best unfortunate" - not nice, especially when none of us know the facts.
What would you like to know,
Perhaps they would like to send you a private message.
"Studmuffin"
Well that conjurers up images.
10 likes for a post that describes the death of these kids as “at best unfortunate” – not nice, especially when none of us know the facts.
Underage kids illegally riding an unroadworthy, unlicensed, uninsured, overpowered bike without legally mandated safety gear. Is that inaccurate?
10 likes for a post that describes the death of these kids as “at best unfortunate” – not nice, especially when none of us know the facts.
i’d taken the likes to be a reaction to the poster suggesting that it wasn’t the police who’d killed the children, as was stated in a previous post.
This is what's wrong with public discourse recently - why does EVERYTHING have to be binary?
Police lying is bad, police press statements can be poor/wrong (and that's bad), rioting is sometimes idiotic - sometimes justified, Young people dying is tragic, the police should consider the risk to the public and perpetrator when pursuing - which is difficult and (I would imagine) easy to get wrong, but its not the police's fault that somebody (breaking the law) kills themselves trying to get away, at 16/17 you have a good idea of right/wrong and fleeing from the police shouldn't be characterized as hijinks etc etc.
Right now, nobody really knows the circumstances around what happened - expressing a (very) strong opinion on the internet regardless of that makes you a bit of a bellend, but going and smashing the place up regardless of not knowing the facts - more so. Even Cardiff.
Apologies is that all sounds a bit obvious, but it's essentially what people seem to be arguing about.
I'd also agree with the sentiment that conditions seem ripe for civil unrest at the moment. A bit of that would be welcome: I'd like to see people on the streets outraged about any number of things going on at the moment.
Underage kids illegally riding an unroadworthy, unlicensed, uninsured, overpowered bike without legally mandated safety gear. Is that inaccurate
Underage kids mate! Ffs! Its sad when kids die. We all do stupid things in life.
Sure - they weren't old enough to be riding a bike that powerful on the road, quite apart from everything else that was wrong.
10 likes for a post that describes the death of these kids as “at best unfortunate” – not nice, especially when none of us know the facts.
As already stated, the reason the comment you mentioned got so many likes is because the comment it was quoting was unnecessarily emotive. Yes, children dying is always sad. Hell, adults dying is sad - even if it is by their own actions and decisions. But they were not 'killed'. And using the word 'killed' with the inference that they were killed by the police (because I'm not sure who else the finger could be pointed at) is how events like a couple of nights ago start. To be clear, George Floyd was 'killed', these two lads 'died'. A huge, chasm, of a difference.
Some nicely phrased perspective from convert and batfink 👏👏
& Darwin in action? Does that go for MTBers or Rugby players who die?
Do MTBers who crash "kill themselves"?
Sure – they weren’t old enough to be riding a bike that powerful on the road, quite apart from everything else that was wrong.
But its sad when kids die right?
More details have been confirmed.
"There were no police vehicles on Snowdon road at the time of the crash, there was a police van on another street and police were called quickly to get the accident and conducted CPR"
Do MTBers who crash “kill themselves”?
That would make for an interesting thread. Someone posts a serious injury looking for tea and sympathy, only to get a reply of ' Well tough luck buddy, you knew the risks'
Im sure who ever posted such a reply would get a pile on dogs abuse.
That would make for an interesting thread.
Indeed. Personally I would say that if I, a mostly wheels on the ground rider, elected to do a run of Redbull Rampage and impaled myself that would very much be self inflicted right up in the darwin award catagory. Anyone looking down on the scene with one of those likelihood/consequence risk assessment grids would be agreeing. If I died in some freak accident where I fell off on a perfectly flat trail and hit my head just at the wrong angle where I could do it a thousand more times and not suffer the same fate then not so much. Everything else is somewhere between the two. But then again I'm big on taking personal responsibility for your actions - that does not mean living a low risk life; just being at peace with the consequence if it goes wrong and not crying 'no fair'!
I guess we use 'Darwinism' to describe elective obviously high risk activity where the outcome is very unlikely to be healthy. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to put high speed motor bike riding in an urban setting without protection to try and evade a chat with the plod in that category too.
Someone posts a serious injury looking for tea and sympathy, only to get a reply of ‘ Well tough luck buddy, you knew the risks’
tbf thats exactly what you would get outside the bubble of cycling.
Im always shocked/impressed how, when an article turns up about a london commuter getting squashed by a lorry or a bus, how many comments BTL are allowed to stand along the lines of "good, one less parasite taking up road space"
A bunch of four hooded young scroates attacked a female MTB rider locally, at 5pm, on my route home, right near houses, local well used path. Four kids supposedly, but threatened the rider with death.
These so called kids do know right and wrong.
These so called kids do know right and wrong.
With the age of criminal responsibility being 10 years of age, then yes, legally. Assuming no learning difficulties, etc.
Interesting that a 16 year old is classed as a child though.
MTBer/Rugby player dies doing something legal knowing the risks whilst using PPE/safety equipment --> Sympathy.
Surron scroats --> **** em I couldn't care less.
The thing that gets me with this palaver is everyone's pointing fingers at each other but no ones pointing the fingers at whoever facilitated ownership to them of a Sur Ron and let them fly around on it with no helmets on.
People moan when police don't chase people on mopeds or motorbikes because of risk of the risk involved, now there is riots when they do.
The thing that gets me with this palaver is everyone’s pointing fingers at each other but no ones pointing the fingers at whoever facilitated ownership to them of a Sur Ron and let them fly around on it with no helmets on.
I suspect that permission is not something many people look to have before embarking on an adventure or course of action, least of all teenages with adrenaline on hand...
