Two boys died after crashing on an ebike, and riots ensued as social media was awash with stories of a police chase leading up to the fatal crash. The police denied there had been a chase – less than 24 hours later and there is now CCTV apparently showing there was a police van following the boys. They really do not ^%$*ing help themselves and I can imagine there will be more disturbances now on the back of them denying the chase taking place. FFS.
From the reporting, I'll take "scroats on a chipped e-bike doing silly speeds with hoodies for head protection" as my starter for 10 please.
From the reporting, I’ll take “scroats on a chipped e-bike doing silly speeds with hoodies for head protection” as my starter for 10 please.
I have no doubt they probably were doing something less than desirable, but what I am trying to focus on is the fact that the police appear to have lied (or, even if they didn't have all the facts and misreported, *appear* to have lied) and that will just inflame tensions. Surely they should have said something less absolute in their response if they didn't know?
I assume it was an electric motorbike instead?
Certainly looked like it from the CCTV. Not that that makes it OK for the police to lie about their involvement.
Like all rioters, those involved who committed the worst of the disorder are going to discover in the coming weeks that the police have been taking pictures throughout the night. So expect a few doors to be going in at 5am in the next month or two.
And the law is harsh on rioters, who will be facing years in prison because of their actions. 8 years isn't an unusual sentence for this.
As with many reported stories, we don't know as yet the full facts, and their deaths could have just been the result of a common accident, the likes of which we hear about every single day. So lets try not to demonize a 15yr and 16 old before we know what happened.
The bike is being quoted as a sur-ron electric motorbike , and completely legal
less than 24 hours later and there is now CCTV apparently showing there was a police van following the boys.
"Following" or "Chasing"?
So little detail given.
We live in an angry world - any excuse needed.
I assume it was an electric motorbike instead?
Sorry, I didn't make the distinction, but yes, it appears to be an electric motorbike.
Certainly looked like it from the CCTV. Not that that makes it OK for the police to lie about their involvement.
But this is the point. Scrotes are going to scrote but the police should be telling the truth (or not saying something absolute before they *know* the truth).
Certainly looked like it from the CCTV. Not that that makes it OK for the police to lie about their involvement.
Just seen the footage now too. Quite right that it doesn't make a difference to the, frankly bizarre, police behaviour but does change understanding of the speeds involved. Alun Michael (police commissioner) isn't likely to see out the month before stepping down I'd wager
I can never understand the logic of 'sticking it to the man' by burning all your own (already shit) immediate surroundings.
Its like protesting about a rise in council tax by having a massive dump on your own carpet then pissing on your sofa
I can never understand the logic of ‘sticking it to the man’ by burning all your own (already shit) immediate surroundings.
I assume nobody set fire to their own stuff – it'll be kids using the events as an excuse to have a lark and just smashing stuff up and burning things (similar to the clowns that ring up the fire service and then throw fireworks and stuff at them). But, unless there is a massive police presence tonight (and perhaps despite one), there will now be more rioting because of the perceived injustice of the police lying about the chase.
“Following” or “Chasing”?
So little detail given.
We live in an angry world – any excuse needed.
Indeed.
some (about 1 second) cctv showing a police van behind the kids on the bike =/= a police chase.
(edit, and I dare say the police have a very specific understanding of what constitutes a chase and what doesn't. Quite possibly what you I may call a chase they absolutely do not and, given its going to end up being investigated and potentially in court, those definitions matter...
You said there was a chase.
Yes
Was it authorised?
No
So it was an illegal chase?)
The bike is being quoted as a sur-ron electric motorbike , and completely legal
To be ridden by a 15/16 year old?
iirc Surons are of a power to weight ratio that means they are only legal to be ridden by those in possesion of a full bike license.
That's not to say that the police denying being involved in a chase then CCTV show they were doesn't reflect badly on the police.
But riding a motorbike illegally without adequate ppe is veering into play stupid games win stupid prizes territory.
To be ridden by a 15/16 year old?
A 16 yr old can legally drive an E-moped/motorbike.
Also just seen the footage and although the speed isnt high speed, the distance between them and the van clearly shows the police were chasing them.
A 16 yr old can legally drive an E-moped/motorbike.
I'm struggling to believe that this was a road legal, taxed, insured bike being ridden by someone with any kind of relevant licence.
The speed is high enough when the riders are being protected by UKCA marked balaclavas
I can never understand the logic of ‘sticking it to the man’ by burning all your own (already shit) immediate surroundings.
to their mind it is all the same
the prime minister, the police, the benefits office, the council, (even the aussie police who tasered an old woman recently I've seen mentioned in a "all police are bad" kind of way)
all out to get them, all one big homogenous lump of "the man" so go ahead, stick it to Rishi by smashing up your local bus stop.
Some lovely comments on here already.
I'm not jumping either way until some evidence and context is available. It's as bad to jump to conclusions about the Police as the victims.
Wonder if it's the start of a long hot summer though....
They were on a Sur Ron electric MX jobbie, so yeah an illegal motorbike. (to be used on the road, without a number plate anyway)
We also get a few of them round here, I have encountered them on the cycle routes a few times.
The law has yet to catch up with the whole 'electric motorbike' industry, whether it's the Sur Rons or the 'twist and go' £250 conversion kits used by urban delivery riders. The fact the (usually Chinese) manufacturers aggressively market them online towards Teenagers and stuff like this is the inevitable result.
Search for Sur Ron on Tiktok or Youtube and you'll get a torrent of stuff, some from Sur Ron supported riders, they know exactly what their products are being used for, they just DGAF.
Have a horrid feeling there will be a kneejerk backlash against them in the future and that legit legal speed limited E-bikes will get caught up in the process.
A 16 yr old can legally drive an E-moped/motorbike.
Only if it's restricted as per our learner laws, and they have a valid CBT, and it's taxed and insured and they wear the correct helmet properly secured.
Sur-rons can be de-restricted to 45mph - at which point it'll be at minimum 17yrs old to ride it, but then stuff like power to weight ratios come in.
And the SuperNintendo has just said (at 17.17, after the video has come to light)
at this stage Stone does not believe any other vehicles were involved.
WTaF
Swap this around... 'We've got you on CCTV stealing the car'. 'Nope, that wasn't me'.
Swap this around… ‘We’ve got you on CCTV [s] stealing the car’.[/] and a few seconds later a stolen car on the same 3m stretch of road'‘Nope, that wasn’t me’.
FTFY.
That video shows sod all, just a bike with two kids then a van. It could be a chase,
but it could be a coincidence, it could be birthday party, it could be the invasion of the body snatchers for all you can see.
these types
Oh dear. all are the same are they ?. Couple of kids zoom about on an Ebike and are now therefore guilty of mugging people.
"chased" or "Followed"
Neither, it was pursued.
But if the pursued wouldn't pull over, when does it become a chase?
but what I am trying to focus on is the fact that the police appear to have lied
Lots more to come I'd say. What is (now) known is that a police van was pursuing, or appeared to be pursing, some minutes prior some streets away. Whilst they've clearly ****ed up the narrative there is a pretty massive leap from that to they were chasing them at the time of their crash/death.
edit - I see they have now confirmed they were. Could have been absolutely the right thing to be doing - but a royal **** up to say otherwise in the immediate aftermath. How the **** would you make the blunder to not know before making a press statement.
edit to my edit - I'm assuming there will be the usual family statement saying their child was the bestest ever and lit up every room and has been cruelly and unfairly taken from us. I just wish that occasionally there was a bit of reality and accepting that they played a part in their own downfall. Riding fast to escape the police rather than stop as requested is a choice. Risky choices sadly come with consequences. And occasionally we have to live with the fact that our loved ones made poor choices.
And thread close in 3..... 2...... 1.......
We don't know enough about any of the specific details to call out either the police or the two boys who died.
We don’t know enough about any of the specific details to call out either the police or the two boys who died.
Wonder if it’s the start of a long hot summer though….
^ both those.
We don’t know enough about any of the specific details to call out either the police or the two boys who died.
Indeed. Apparently it's OK to celebrate their death, but call it out and you get your post deleted.
Police not chasing enables the illegal behaviour - the MET had issues with their "no chase if no helmets" rules, crims found out and all stopped wearing helmets.
It's a dammed if they do, dammed if they don't situation. I'm personally ok with the police chasing - as riding a motorbike without appropriate protection is, as I said above, into "stupid games, stupid prizes" territory.
It’s a dammed if they do, dammed if they don’t situation. I’m personally ok with the police chasing – as riding a motorbike without appropriate protection is, as I said above, into “stupid games, stupid prizes” territory.
I think you've missed the point. I don't think anyone has an issue with the police chasing them ( do they?). They're objecting to the police chasing them and then saying they weren't chasing them
Hmmm.. Just imagine if they had stopped while being chased by the police .....
Yes unfortunate . But why didnt they ? As above Policing in the UK is far to soft as are sentences, which leads to what was witnessed in Cardiff , Bradford years ago, Oldham . We in the UK have a generation of people who just clearly do not understand any form of law and order and yet the poeple there to try and protect and keep the peace are the ones that get scrutinized by bureaucrats everytime something like this happens. No wonder theres no uptake in the police force..
Police can't win can they, it's 95% certain it was two teens riding a illegal electric motor bike without a licence, tax, insurance or even a helmet, under age, all of which is illegal. If they had mown down someone on a crossing or pavement and the police had backed off chasing them (which sounds likely) the police are at fault. Assuming the kids were to blame for what happened and let's be honest it's happened many times before, the only people to blame are now dead. The police haven't helped themselves once again by being economical with the truth, ie they were chasing the offenders but had backed off before the crash.
What followed afterwards had no justification in anyway unless the police had deliberately rammed them off the road Land even that is a legitimate response to protect people not breaking the law from idiots who are).
This thread is absolutely unbelievable. A few people on here should have a right word with themselves.
Two kids, barely starting in life, probably without much guidance or prospects have died in tragic circumstances and the usual ###### on here are preaching from their middle class enclaves about scroats deserving what they get. As for that Martyfez character words fail me.
I hope it is a long hot summer - some communities are at breaking point and the uk police are not fit fir purpose
I can see where mattyfez is coming from, I wouldn't word it so strongly though, and we don't know the circumstances for all we know they could be model kids off to get some flowers for their mum
We have areas that are terrirorised by youths smashing about on unplated scooters, mx and now two of these e-mx bikes have appeared. My 8 year old was nearly hit by one doing a wheelie along a path into the local sports centre. If he hadn't moved fast out of the way he would have been seriously hurt. They just laughed.
Police do need to be able to tackle anti social behaviour on bikes / e-bikes / scooters whatever as unchallenged it just gets worse.
A tragic case of youthful exuberance - many of us with the wisdom of age will probably be thinking that we got up to similar high jinks that could have been just as tragic were it not for some luck. These boys appeared to have run out of it.
The bike is illegal (no plates), the riders were not licensed to ride it or insured to do so.
Those facts appear relatively uncontentious which then brings us to the responsibility of the parents. One of the mums is quoted as saying they were "always off riding their electric bikes" - but only off road. That seems to be to a parent who either turned a blind eye or was naive as to how the motorbike reached the "off road" bits and the obvious lack of helmet etc. And not many youngsters can drive round on a c£3k motorbike without adults in the immediate family / community knowing it.
It does rather seem that adults who should have been watching out for the two boys let them down.
Just to add, there is a shrine in our local woods where one of the youths killed himself off roading a few years back.
Doesn't seem to have stopped them. At least with proper MX you can hear what part of the woods or park they are in, and can actively avoid it to keep yourself safe. The e MX are super quiet and just as fast.
I'm not getting into the rights/ wrongs as I don't know enough. Its a tragedy that 2 found lads died, whatever the circumstances.
Lots of Sur Rons around here on the roads these days. The law simply hasn't kept up with the whole electric revolution. We are still in the wild west stage and there will be many more deaths in the near future I'm afraid...
some communities are at breaking point and the uk police are not fit fir purpose
Too right, all the poor sods living on that estate that have to put up with anti social behaviour of idiots like these two, people who were probably scrapping by who now have no car, can't get to work, living in fear the other idiots will be back tonight to have another go at the police. It's not the rioters or the two dead teens that need our empathy is all the other people being let down.
Two kids, barely starting in life, probably without much guidance or prospects have died in tragic circumstances
This is not a defence of the behaviour witnessed by either the riders or the rioters.
We don't all live in middle class enclaves, some of us actually see this on a daily basis, from the tone of your post t sounds like you're the one insulated from the realities of some people in our society.
if your going to troll at least try well.
There is no ebike involved here.
And you cannot ride a surron. On a CBT.
Surrons
Googles - got to confess, they look quite cool. They appeal to the inner 16 year old in me. Hell, they appeal to the 51 year old in me. There is no way in hell this middle class yoof would have been able to find the cash for one mind.
I was wondering how 2 lads twosup on an ebike had built up enough momentum to kill both of them rather than just mangle themselves, but that explains it. I can totally see why they need legislation around their use.
I can totally see why they need legislation around their use.
There is, they're motorbikes. So it's the same legislation as those, and training/ppe requirements for the users.
There is
Erm - didn't say there wasn't. Just that I could see why there was.
When I first heard the story it said people died in cars that crashed and that they were being chased by police at the time - the Police denied this. Then all of a sudden pictures emerged of a police van following/chasing/pursuing some people on a bike which wasn’t anything to do with the original story…
So the original denial of chasing a car might be correct but got lost in all the hubbub….🤷♂️
You can see how it could get confused, if the bike out ran the van and then crashed, you'd have a van looking for a bike and somewhere else an RTA called in by a member of the public, so two seemingly unrelated incidents...
What I really want to know is who are these people who have balaclavas to hand, just in case there's a riot in their street?
Balaclava and or face mask is “road man” uniform isn’t it.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Roadman
